Seeking the truth about Jermain Taylor

[marauder1999]

Murky. Not a choice word in describing a middleweight champion’s reign. But it’s the most accurate in describing Jermain Taylor’s tenure at 160 pounds since dethroning Bernard Hopkins via split decision. With four title defenses including a rematch win over Hopkins, a draw with Winky Wright and two wins over world-class 154-pounders, the once-dubbed “Heir Apparent’s” resume should speak for itself. But there is far too much gray area for that to be the case. Beyond his record on paper, Taylor’s fights tell the story of his murky reign.

When Taylor stepped in the ring with Hopkins for the first time, fans looked for answers. But they got neither after a decision that was debatable rather than decisive. The Arkansans bellowed that no one since Roy Jones back in 1993 had managed to keep “Executioner” from bullying his way in and that a rematch would be easier. The old school purists replied that Taylor was manhandled over the final four rounds, and that next time Hopkins would start fighting sooner to erase all doubt.

But Hopkins didn’t start sooner, and Taylor won this time by unanimous decision. Taylor corrected some mistakes in the rematch, such as jabbing with more conviction and throwing the right with more accuracy. But it still was not a dominating victory. No one wanted to see the champ win for a second time by simply neutralizing Hopkins’ attack with his sheer physical threat enough to earn a slim points victory. At the end of 2005, the only thing apparent about the “Heir Apparent” was that we did not want to see him the ring again with Bernard Hopkins for the third time.

Halfway through 2006, Taylor gained more of the public’s approval simply by agreeing to take on his third consecutive fight with a pound-for-pounder, than he did in his two wins over Hopkins combined. However, after the fight, Jermain Taylor’s moniker promptly changed from Bad Intentions to Bad Decisions, as many thought Winky Wright deserved the victory. For the third fight in a row, Taylor was out-landed and ********* yet still had a goose egg in the loss column.

His fans, again, found room for optimism: Taylor had done better than the likes of “Sugar” Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad and he dropped some impressive bombs on Wright, who looked exhausted late on. But he ought to have done better than the natural welterweights, and skeptics added that most of the bombs hit arms and gloves. Which point of view held more merit?

We looked for definition in his two subsequent fights, the first of which was against Kassim Ouma. Here was a chance to shed light on his offensive abilities. In other words, if Taylor knocked out the smaller Ouma in style, we’d all have a clearer picture. He would show himself the dominant force we thought he was. He was just held in check by two defensive masters. Surely?
Again, the adequate answer slid away. Eager for a knockout, Taylor sloppily wasted away his energy in the early rounds as he trudged clumsily to an ugly decision victory. He then explored the other extreme in his next fight by hardly throwing any punches at all. Taylor swung for the fences against a guy who could walk through a brick wall in Ouma, and then tried to cautiously out-box a pure boxer in Cory Spinks when clearly, a more aggressive offense was called for, last May.

In a sport so honest and naked, it is hard to hide truth. Yet the answers often elude us. Taylor’s path since becoming champ has revealed nothing but two opposing and equally valid viewpoints. Often, the middle ground between extreme opinions has the most accuracy. But in this case, would that mean that Jermain Taylor is only an average boxer whose physical gifts have allowed him to squeak by the tough competition?

A lot is expected from Jermain Taylor, now 27-0-1 (17 KOs). And when a lot is expected, little forgiveness is offered when expectations are not met. Take away those expectations, take away the “Heir Apparent” status he earned pre-Hopkins, and give Taylor’s resume to a boxer of Carlos Baldomir’s ilk. Suddenly, the fighter is given a lot of credit for what he has achieved out of nowhere. But Taylor has had expectations heaped on him since he came out of the Olympics in 2000 and has been given every opportunity to shine.

In boxing, the cliché tells us a boxer is only as good as his last fight. In Taylor’s case, he currently finds himself in the public’s eye only as good as his last five. Some truth needs to be revealed about Taylor’s past through the present, as he has already attempted to do against Ouma and Spinks, but failed. The present is his challenge against Kelly Pavlik (31-0, 28). Contrarily, Pavlik is as good as his last fight – an aggressive knockout of Edison Miranda – and because of it, many would pick the undefeated fighter from Youngstown, Ohio to beat Taylor.
So this may be the perfect time for Taylor to finally make a powerful statement: Pavlik will provide him a violent confrontation, not a tedious standoff. He is fighting a guy who will give him every opportunity to show his truth: what he is made of. Instant gratification is certainly not a given in boxing, but a champion’s status still undefined after four world-class challengers is certainly rare. September 29th will not only bring excitement in the ring, but also will finally reveal the truth about Jermain Taylor and clear his murky past.

Pavlik KO's his ass by the 6th.

[MacManJr.]

No way I'm reading all that but this is how I see the fight. Pavlik will not be able to swarm Taylor like he did Miranda because Taylor has a good jab. Miranda didnt throw a jab the whole fight. JT should be able to jab Pavlik at will and have his nose bleeding by the end of round 2. Then he can set up his hooks and straight right hands.

[Guru_Too_You]

Truth is revealed in his next bout. Thats all there is to it.

[Zakman]

Excellent analysis, and your prediction is right on the money. I personally think Pavlik will get him a little earlier, but the fact is that Taylor has looked very vulnerable against guys coming up from the lower weights, and Hopkins, not known as a heavy hitter, had him badly rocked. That smells suspcously like a shaky chin to me, one that Pavlik can take advantage of.

[lefthook31]

The bottom line with Taylor is hes a super talented YOUNG fighter. He was rushed far to fast into fights he had no business in at those points of his career. His natural ability carried him through those fights, and thats why he was competitive but not dominant. It takes time to develop a pro fighter, because there is so many different scoring styles compared to the amatuers. Taylor has not had enough time to see all those styles and adjust his game properly at the upper level, with his unqualified trainer Pat Burns. Emanuel Steward is obviously one of the better trainers for taking really good fighters to the next level if the potential is there. Taylors fundamentals are there, and Steward will tweak, and devise gameplans to make Taylor a more complete fighter. Pavliks style is in your face, so its going to be a better fight for Taylor compared to fighting three of the craftiest styles he faced in Wright, Hopkins, and Spinks.

[Piffer]

Excellent analysis, and your prediction is right on the money. I personally think Pavlik will get him a little earlier, but the fact is that Taylor has looked very vulnerable against guys coming up from the lower weights, and Hopkins, not known as a heavy hitter, had him badly rocked. That smells suspcously like a shaky chin to me, one that Pavlik can take advantage of.

Translation:

You don't like Taylor!? I don't like him either!! *sucks cock*

[klion22]

Murky. Not a choice word in describing a middleweight champion’s reign. But it’s the most accurate in describing Jermain Taylor’s tenure at 160 pounds since dethroning Bernard Hopkins via split decision. With four title defenses including a rematch win over Hopkins, a draw with Winky Wright and two wins over world-class 154-pounders, the once-dubbed “Heir Apparent’s” resume should speak for itself. But there is far too much gray area for that to be the case. Beyond his record on paper, Taylor’s fights tell the story of his murky reign.

When Taylor stepped in the ring with Hopkins for the first time, fans looked for answers. But they got neither after a decision that was debatable rather than decisive. The Arkansans bellowed that no one since Roy Jones back in 1993 had managed to keep “Executioner” from bullying his way in and that a rematch would be easier. The old school purists replied that Taylor was manhandled over the final four rounds, and that next time Hopkins would start fighting sooner to erase all doubt.

But Hopkins didn’t start sooner, and Taylor won this time by unanimous decision. Taylor corrected some mistakes in the rematch, such as jabbing with more conviction and throwing the right with more accuracy. But it still was not a dominating victory. No one wanted to see the champ win for a second time by simply neutralizing Hopkins’ attack with his sheer physical threat enough to earn a slim points victory. At the end of 2005, the only thing apparent about the “Heir Apparent” was that we did not want to see him the ring again with Bernard Hopkins for the third time.

Halfway through 2006, Taylor gained more of the public’s approval simply by agreeing to take on his third consecutive fight with a pound-for-pounder, than he did in his two wins over Hopkins combined. However, after the fight, Jermain Taylor’s moniker promptly changed from Bad Intentions to Bad Decisions, as many thought Winky Wright deserved the victory. For the third fight in a row, Taylor was out-landed and ********* yet still had a goose egg in the loss column.

His fans, again, found room for optimism: Taylor had done better than the likes of “Sugar” Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad and he dropped some impressive bombs on Wright, who looked exhausted late on. But he ought to have done better than the natural welterweights, and skeptics added that most of the bombs hit arms and gloves. Which point of view held more merit?

We looked for definition in his two subsequent fights, the first of which was against Kassim Ouma. Here was a chance to shed light on his offensive abilities. In other words, if Taylor knocked out the smaller Ouma in style, we’d all have a clearer picture. He would show himself the dominant force we thought he was. He was just held in check by two defensive masters. Surely?
Again, the adequate answer slid away. Eager for a knockout, Taylor sloppily wasted away his energy in the early rounds as he trudged clumsily to an ugly decision victory. He then explored the other extreme in his next fight by hardly throwing any punches at all. Taylor swung for the fences against a guy who could walk through a brick wall in Ouma, and then tried to cautiously out-box a pure boxer in Cory Spinks when clearly, a more aggressive offense was called for, last May.

In a sport so honest and naked, it is hard to hide truth. Yet the answers often elude us. Taylor’s path since becoming champ has revealed nothing but two opposing and equally valid viewpoints. Often, the middle ground between extreme opinions has the most accuracy. But in this case, would that mean that Jermain Taylor is only an average boxer whose physical gifts have allowed him to squeak by the tough competition?

A lot is expected from Jermain Taylor, now 27-0-1 (17 KOs). And when a lot is expected, little forgiveness is offered when expectations are not met. Take away those expectations, take away the “Heir Apparent” status he earned pre-Hopkins, and give Taylor’s resume to a boxer of Carlos Baldomir’s ilk. Suddenly, the fighter is given a lot of credit for what he has achieved out of nowhere. But Taylor has had expectations heaped on him since he came out of the Olympics in 2000 and has been given every opportunity to shine.

In boxing, the cliché tells us a boxer is only as good as his last fight. In Taylor’s case, he currently finds himself in the public’s eye only as good as his last five. Some truth needs to be revealed about Taylor’s past through the present, as he has already attempted to do against Ouma and Spinks, but failed. The present is his challenge against Kelly Pavlik (31-0, 28). Contrarily, Pavlik is as good as his last fight – an aggressive knockout of Edison Miranda – and because of it, many would pick the undefeated fighter from Youngstown, Ohio to beat Taylor.
So this may be the perfect time for Taylor to finally make a powerful statement: Pavlik will provide him a violent confrontation, not a tedious standoff. He is fighting a guy who will give him every opportunity to show his truth: what he is made of. Instant gratification is certainly not a given in boxing, but a champion’s status still undefined after four world-class challengers is certainly rare. September 29th will not only bring excitement in the ring, but also will finally reveal the truth about Jermain Taylor and clear his murky past.

Pavlik KO's his ass by the 6th.

Pretty good write up.

I think Taylor has a mental issue. He's not too smart a kid. He's too simple minded IMO. He has a hard time applying what he's taught in the ring. And i also think he has that warrior mentality in that he will answer if someone is coming at him but will get kind of bored if his opponent does nothing either.

Spinks was a nightmare matchup for him because Spinks ran the whole time and didn't initiate anything. So Taylor just waited and waited. He should've initiated the action.

I think what Taylor has gotten away from since his Hopkins fights is his jab. He used that a lot before fighting Hopkins to set everything else up. He seldom uses it anymore. He needs to get back to using that.

I still think Taylor will win. This is a kid who is still somewhat raw and still managed to eek out wins against Hopkins and a draw with Wright. And the level of competition he has faced will ready him for Pavlik. I see Taylor getting up for this one and matching Pavlik's blows.

[He Hate Me]

You guys amaze me sometimes, many threads on this forum talks so much about guys ducking this one or another. Who has jermain taylor ducked, thats right no one, he is fighting the best and should be applauded for it.

[Fab2333]

No way I'm reading all that but this is how I see the fight. Pavlik will not be able to swarm Taylor like he did Miranda because Taylor has a good jab. Miranda didnt throw a jab the whole fight. JT should be able to jab Pavlik at will and have his nose bleeding by the end of round 2. Then he can set up his hooks and straight right hands.

I agree, Pavlik is hyped way too much. Jermain is going to win. Pavlik is very easy to hit. And Jermain is no Miranda, he will move around and stay behind that jab of his. Which is a good one I might add. This will b Jermain's first orthodox opponent since Bernard Hopkins. Some1's 0 will b gone, but It wont b Jermain's

[Fab2333]

You guys amaze me sometimes, many threads on this forum talks so much about guys ducking this one or another. Who has jermain taylor ducked, thats right no one, he is fighting the best and should be applauded for it.:thumbsup I agree with that, call himwat you want but he takes tough fights all the time. I commend him for that

[klion22]

I think the fact that Taylor got both decisions is what is causing all this disdain from Hopkins fans. And i think rightfully so as you can make a STRONG case for Hopkins in both fights. So i think this is hurting Taylor's image in the general public because every boxing forum you go to, there are a ton of Taylor haters. It's too bad things turned out the way it did.

Just move on JT.

[MacManJr.]

I agree, Pavlik is hyped way too much. Jermain is going to win. Pavlik is very easy to hit. And Jermain is no Miranda, he will move around and stay behind that jab of his. Which is a good one I might add. This will b Jermain's first orthodox opponent since Bernard Hopkins. Some1's 0 will b gone, but It wont b Jermain'sMan I thought you couldn't get any better than the last avatar but I stand corrected!

[Richel Hersisia]

Really great read marauder1999.

I think Taylor has no capability of making and dictating a fight.
But he is damn competitive with anybody. I think it will be a great fight and JT will edge out another close decision.

[Fab2333]

Man I thought you couldn't get any better than the last avatar but I stand corrected!
thanx, try to stay consistent for all the fellas on ESB:yep

[MacManJr.]

thanx, try to stay consistent for all the fellas on ESB:yepThat chick is ridiculous!

[Amsterdam]

A great write up, let's all give Marauder credit. I feel your analysis of him is spot on and you put it well into an essay format.

Pavlik is going to remove him brutally before round 5, you can count on that.:good

[klion22]

A great write up, let's all give Marauder credit. I feel your analysis of him is spot on and you put it well into an essay format.

Pavlik is going to remove him brutally before round 5, you can count on that.:good

Boy are you going to look stupid for saying that.

[Fab2333]

That chick is ridiculous!
yessurr:good

[Fab2333]

A great write up, let's all give Marauder credit. I feel your analysis of him is spot on and you put it well into an essay format.

Pavlik is going to remove him brutally before round 5, you can count on that.:good

it was a goodpost, while I do agree with some points.
BUt Pavlik winning I dont agree with.
Pavlik by round 5 KO? Nah Amsterdam cant rock with you on that. I see JT winning this one

[Amsterdam]

it was a goodpost, while I do agree with some points.
BUt Pavlik winning I dont agree with.
Pavlik by round 5 KO? Nah Amsterdam cant rock with you on that. I see JT winning this one

Fine with me, but if my prediction hits, I hope everyone doesn't act like they saw it coming if they were picking Taylor.:yep

[theHawtness]

poor jermain. he has ducked no one, although he wins impressively. give the guy his due. you are all too harsh on him. an unimpressive win is still a win. let's pray for JT.

[Fab2333]

Fine with me, but if my prediction hits, I hope everyone doesn't act like they saw it coming if they were picking Taylor.:yep

No not at all, I dot flip flop. If Pavlik wins I will admitt you were right. But I dont see it happening is all im sayin. Im rocking with JT on this one. I been rocking with him for a min now, since he been fighting on espn. I picked him 2 beat B-Hop, and even though some people thought he lost the 1st fight, and mayb the 2nd. For the record he won so im not gon pick against him now. He will beat Pavlik, with Jabs, and hooks

[MacManJr.]

No not at all, I dot flip flop. If Pavlik wins I will admitt you were right. But I dont see it happening is all im sayin. Im rocking with JT on this one. I been rocking with him for a min now, since he been fighting on espn. I picked him 2 beat B-Hop, and even though some people thought he lost the 1st fight, and mayb the 2nd. For the record he won so im not gon pick against him now. He will beat Pavlik, with Jabs, and hooksIf he just listens to Manny it won't be hard to beat Pavlik.

[English Nutter]

You guys amaze me sometimes, many threads on this forum talks so much about guys ducking this one or another. Who has jermain taylor ducked, thats right no one, he is fighting the best and should be applauded for it. Joe Calzaghe:thumbsup

[brooklyn1550]

Excellent post

[BITCH ASS]

The bottom line with Taylor is hes a super talented YOUNG fighter. He was rushed far to fast into fights he had no business in at those points of his career. His natural ability carried him through those fights, and thats why he was competitive but not dominant. It takes time to develop a pro fighter, because there is so many different scoring styles compared to the amatuers. Taylor has not had enough time to see all those styles and adjust his game properly at the upper level, with his unqualified trainer Pat Burns. Emanuel Steward is obviously one of the better trainers for taking really good fighters to the next level if the potential is there. Taylors fundamentals are there, and Steward will tweak, and devise gameplans to make Taylor a more complete fighter. Pavliks style is in your face, so its going to be a better fight for Taylor compared to fighting three of the craftiest styles he faced in Wright, Hopkins, and Spinks.

Why are you forgetting Ouma?

Everyone has a tendency to just omit Ouma as if it never happened.

The fact is that Ouma is a come foward, plodding, short fighter, who's defense is his offense, but doesn't have any power, yet Taylor failed to look dominant against him.

Pavlik is much bigger, has just as good or a higher workrate, is more accurate, has devestating power, and will take advantage of mistakes Taylor makes that Ouma couldn't.

[BITCH ASS]

Fine with me, but if my prediction hits, I hope everyone doesn't act like they saw it coming if they were picking Taylor.:yep

I'm surprised you're picking the "pasty cue ball" as you called him in this one.

[He Hate Me]

Taylor may well lose this fight and I believe he will be liked then by the establishment, if he loses he will do it going down fighting, thats the least we can ask for as boxing fans, a warrior willing to risk it all.

[Unlimited]

Damn Dis Dude Wrote To Much Someone Has A Summary Lol

[pipe wrenched]

Murky. Not a choice word in describing a middleweight champion’s reign. But it’s the most accurate in describing Jermain Taylor’s tenure at 160 pounds since dethroning Bernard Hopkins via split decision. With four title defenses including a rematch win over Hopkins, a draw with Winky Wright and two wins over world-class 154-pounders, the once-dubbed “Heir Apparent’s” resume should speak for itself. But there is far too much gray area for that to be the case. Beyond his record on paper, Taylor’s fights tell the story of his murky reign.

When Taylor stepped in the ring with Hopkins for the first time, fans looked for answers. But they got neither after a decision that was debatable rather than decisive. The Arkansans bellowed that no one since Roy Jones back in 1993 had managed to keep “Executioner” from bullying his way in and that a rematch would be easier. The old school purists replied that Taylor was manhandled over the final four rounds, and that next time Hopkins would start fighting sooner to erase all doubt.

But Hopkins didn’t start sooner, and Taylor won this time by unanimous decision. Taylor corrected some mistakes in the rematch, such as jabbing with more conviction and throwing the right with more accuracy. But it still was not a dominating victory. No one wanted to see the champ win for a second time by simply neutralizing Hopkins’ attack with his sheer physical threat enough to earn a slim points victory. At the end of 2005, the only thing apparent about the “Heir Apparent” was that we did not want to see him the ring again with Bernard Hopkins for the third time.

Halfway through 2006, Taylor gained more of the public’s approval simply by agreeing to take on his third consecutive fight with a pound-for-pounder, than he did in his two wins over Hopkins combined. However, after the fight, Jermain Taylor’s moniker promptly changed from Bad Intentions to Bad Decisions, as many thought Winky Wright deserved the victory. For the third fight in a row, Taylor was out-landed and ********* yet still had a goose egg in the loss column.

His fans, again, found room for optimism: Taylor had done better than the likes of “Sugar” Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad and he dropped some impressive bombs on Wright, who looked exhausted late on. But he ought to have done better than the natural welterweights, and skeptics added that most of the bombs hit arms and gloves. Which point of view held more merit?

We looked for definition in his two subsequent fights, the first of which was against Kassim Ouma. Here was a chance to shed light on his offensive abilities. In other words, if Taylor knocked out the smaller Ouma in style, we’d all have a clearer picture. He would show himself the dominant force we thought he was. He was just held in check by two defensive masters. Surely?
Again, the adequate answer slid away. Eager for a knockout, Taylor sloppily wasted away his energy in the early rounds as he trudged clumsily to an ugly decision victory. He then explored the other extreme in his next fight by hardly throwing any punches at all. Taylor swung for the fences against a guy who could walk through a brick wall in Ouma, and then tried to cautiously out-box a pure boxer in Cory Spinks when clearly, a more aggressive offense was called for, last May.

In a sport so honest and naked, it is hard to hide truth. Yet the answers often elude us. Taylor’s path since becoming champ has revealed nothing but two opposing and equally valid viewpoints. Often, the middle ground between extreme opinions has the most accuracy. But in this case, would that mean that Jermain Taylor is only an average boxer whose physical gifts have allowed him to squeak by the tough competition?

A lot is expected from Jermain Taylor, now 27-0-1 (17 KOs). And when a lot is expected, little forgiveness is offered when expectations are not met. Take away those expectations, take away the “Heir Apparent” status he earned pre-Hopkins, and give Taylor’s resume to a boxer of Carlos Baldomir’s ilk. Suddenly, the fighter is given a lot of credit for what he has achieved out of nowhere. But Taylor has had expectations heaped on him since he came out of the Olympics in 2000 and has been given every opportunity to shine.

In boxing, the cliché tells us a boxer is only as good as his last fight. In Taylor’s case, he currently finds himself in the public’s eye only as good as his last five. Some truth needs to be revealed about Taylor’s past through the present, as he has already attempted to do against Ouma and Spinks, but failed. The present is his challenge against Kelly Pavlik (31-0, 28). Contrarily, Pavlik is as good as his last fight – an aggressive knockout of Edison Miranda – and because of it, many would pick the undefeated fighter from Youngstown, Ohio to beat Taylor.
So this may be the perfect time for Taylor to finally make a powerful statement: Pavlik will provide him a violent confrontation, not a tedious standoff. He is fighting a guy who will give him every opportunity to show his truth: what he is made of. Instant gratification is certainly not a given in boxing, but a champion’s status still undefined after four world-class challengers is certainly rare. September 29th will not only bring excitement in the ring, but also will finally reveal the truth about Jermain Taylor and clear his murky past.

Pavlik KO's his ass by the 6th.

Fine post marauder. Although I think KP will KO JT in the 7th.:good

[Guru_Too_You]

Listen, if Taylor gets by Pavlik in any way shape or form, he has to be given his due.

He has beaten an ATG Middleweight twice, albeit controversely.
He has drawn with an ATG Junior Middleweight who wouldnt rematch.
He has beaten a former undisputed welterweight champion.

Hopkins had 20 straight title defenses and was #1 P4P. Winky and Spinks are both very crafty, slick southpaws, the prior was top 3 P4P.

He has beaten a come forward workhorse in Ouma, who was a former titlist himself.

Now if he beats a tall rangy boxer puncher with an unbelievable knockout percentage, what more could you want from him.

And for the record, I cant stand Taylor for dethroning Hopkins, but damn man, give credit where its due.

In fact, I dare some one to show me a fighter in the past 15 years who has fought two fighters ranked in the top 3 P4P at the time that they fought.