Why In The Hell Dont We Blame Hagler For Taking Rounds Off Against SRL???

[acb]

For all the bitching I hear on this forum and in the classic forum about the man getting robbed against SRL, I sure dont here people blaming it on him for switching from southy and giving Ray a chance to take early rounds.

Meanwhile, we crucify guys like Winky for not pouring it on in the 12th against Taylor, or Oscar for giving away rounds in the Trinidad fight. If someone claims they should have won, the answer here is inevitably ¨you should have fought all the rounds¨, and for good reason.

But I dont understand why that responsibility doesnt also fall on Hagler´s shoulders for some reason. Its just that he was robbed, or the popularity of SRL won him the fight, or his pittypat punching, or his clowing etc.

Why dont people say also to Hagler, ¨what were you thinking, its your own damm fault, why would you fight conventional against Ray Leonard¨?

[jackiebrown]

because around here there are no all time greats past 1988

[Thread Stealer]

because around here there are no all time greats past 1988

Chavez and Whitaker are recognized as most as ATGs.

Whitaker did most of his best work past 1988.

[acb]

Chavez and Whitaker are recognized as most as ATGs.

Whitaker did most of his best work past 1988.

So getting back to the original question... :think

[Thread Stealer]

For all the bitching I hear on this forum and in the classic forum about the man getting robbed against SRL, I sure dont here people blaming it on him for switching from southy and giving Ray a chance to take early rounds.

Meanwhile, we crucify guys like Winky for not pouring it on in the 12th against Taylor, or Oscar for giving away rounds in the Trinidad fight. If someone claims they should have won, the answer here is inevitably ¨you should have fought all the rounds¨, and for good reason.

But I dont understand why that responsibility doesnt also fall on Hagler´s shoulders for some reason. Its just that he was robbed, or the popularity of SRL won him the fight, or his pittypat punching, or his clowing etc.

Why dont people say also to Hagler, ¨what were you thinking, its your own damm fault, why would you fight conventional against Ray Leonard¨?

Hagler gets it quite a bit. I hear people say all the time "he blew the fight by giving away the first 4 rounds".

I disagree, I had Hagler winning and gave him the 3rd, but it wasn't a good idea to box orthodox.

Even the Petronellis admit that he should've applied more pressure and been more aggressive.

[KO Boxing]

I don't know. He gave away nearly all of the first 5 or so rounds. Not so much in answer to your question, but I honestly score this fight easy for Leonard every time. But each to their own.

[jackiebrown]

Chavez and Whitaker are recognized as most as ATGs.

Whitaker did most of his best work past 1988.im being a smart ass man lol

[acb]

Hagler gets it quite a bit. I hear people say all the time "he blew the fight by giving away the first 4 rounds".

I disagree, I had Hagler winning and gave him the 3rd, but it wasn't a good idea to box orthodox.

Even the Petronellis admit that he should've applied more pressure and been more aggressive.

But there is definently a contradiction in this line of thinking. We hold our fighters today completely responsible for each and every round.

We are talking Marvelous Marvin Hagler, and ATG. He has allways complained about the adulation of the media (as do posters here) for SRL. Knowing this BEFORE THE FIGHT, he should have fought from bell to bell, right?

And since he DID know this before the fight, only arrogance (him thinking he could take two rounds off without losing) explains his actions.

To which I would respond, ITS YOUR OWN DAMM FAULT!

But posters here on ESB act like he was a child from who´s hand candy was taken from. I think its bullshit. SRL won the fight, get over it!

[acb]

I honestly score this fight easy for Leonard every time. But each to their own.

As do I.

[Thread Stealer]

But there is definently a contradiction in this line of thinking. We hold our fighters today completely responsible for each and every round.

We are talking Marvelous Marvin Hagler, and ATG. He has allways complained about the adulation of the media (as do posters here) for SRL. Knowing this BEFORE THE FIGHT, he should have fought from bell to bell, right?

And since he DID know this before the fight, only arrogance (him thinking he could take two rounds off without losing) explains his actions.

To which I would respond, ITS YOUR OWN DAMM FAULT!

But posters here on ESB act like he was a child from who´s hand candy was taken from. I think its bullshit. SRL won the fight, get over it!

There's always going to be nostalgia. Also, Trinidad-DLH and Wright-Taylor are more fresh in people's minds, than a fight that took place 20 years ago.

Hagler said afterwards "what did I tell you about Vegas?". He had already gotten robbed in the first Antuofermo fight, and the judges had the Duran fight ridiculously close. You'd think Hagler would make sure he won it more clearly and not fool around. Maybe he didn't have it in him to do what he did against Hearns (that type of aggression was the exception for Hagler, not the norm).

Whatever the case, I blame Hagler, but I also give credit to Ray.

[acb]

Whatever the case, I blame Hagler, but I also give credit to Ray.

:good

[Sweet Jones]

Hagler gets it quite a bit. I hear people say all the time "he blew the fight by giving away the first 4 rounds".

I disagree, I had Hagler winning and gave him the 3rd, but it wasn't a good idea to box orthodox.

Even the Petronellis admit that he should've applied more pressure and been more aggressive.

Co sign this. And I also thought Hagler won the 3rd Rd., even when I first saw the fight.

After the immediate glow of SRL's performance began to fade, Hagler and the Petronellis caught ALOT of flak after that fight for poor strategy.

[Guru_Too_You]

Anyone who doesnt blame Hagler's decision to box orthodox obviously wants to enhance Ray's performance.

Period.

[Stewbear]

because he didn't?

[Stewbear]

It is completely reasonable to blame Leonard for taking 2 and a half minutes off every round though:good

[Lampley]

I love Hagler, but I can't score this fight for him. I think part of it was his fault for getting started too slowly, and part of it was his natural, inevitable decline.

And Leonard fought a great fight, even if I say that through grit teeth.

[acb]

because he didn't?

Did you see the fight? If he didnt take 2 rounds off by going conventional what exactly was he doing?

[Thread Stealer]

Did you see the fight? If he didnt take 2 rounds off by going conventional what exactly was he doing?

Well Hagler liked to switch stances a lot, possibly he felt he was better off that way.

It's also been said that Leonard's mind games got into Hagler's head, and also Leonard and his camp were telling Hagler that he was nothing but an old slugger who couldn't box.

Hagler still has this false reputation as a slugger, when in actuality he was more of a boxer-puncher, despite occassional strays from his usual style.

Maybe Hagler wanted to outbox Ray, when in actuality he should have been fighting him more like he fought Tommy.

[acb]

Well Hagler liked to switch stances a lot, possibly he felt he was better off that way.

It's also been said that Leonard's mind games got into Hagler's head, and also Leonard and his camp were telling Hagler that he was nothing but an old slugger who couldn't box.

Hagler still has this false reputation as a slugger, when in actuality he was more of a boxer-puncher, despite occassional strays from his usual style.

Maybe Hagler wanted to outbox Ray, when in actuality he should have been fighting him more like he fought Tommy.

I think these are all valid points, but I will forever believe that he just thought he would make a fool out of Leonard by beating him at his own game. He believed, like Morrales who went southy against Pac in the 12th round, that he was just that good and he wante to show SRL.

[Lampley]

I think these are all valid points, but I will forever believe that he just thought he would make a fool out of Leonard by beating him at his own game. He believed, like Morrales who went southy against Pac in the 12th round, that he was just that good and he wante to show SRL.

I feel the same way, although I think that also speaks to Ray's head games affecting Marvin.

[acb]

I feel the same way, although I think that also speaks to Ray's head games affecting Marvin.

Agreed.

I dont think Marvin was ever afraid of SRL, but I think he resented the shit out of him and wanted more than anything to not only beat him but make a statement of it.