Sweet 16 march madness 64 man bracket heavyweight tournament...Your gonna love this!

[SuzieQ49]

What are your opening round picks? Feel free to pick a couple upsets as we know in march madness that happens EVERY YEAR! But Please make predictions for the opening round. there is 32 picks!!



Here it is my NCAA 64 man March Madness Heavyweight Bracket opening round


First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer






Here is the seeding and Bracket Formula. This is the best formula possible to make it unbias and fair. If one of the the four divisions got loaded with talent in the opening round, then tough luck. that is the bracket and its how the seeding works with my top 64 rankings. everyone fits into a specific formula.



#1 Joe Louis A1
# 2 Muhammad Ali B1
# 3 Sonny Liston C1
# 4 Rocky Marciano D1
# 5 Jack Johnson A2
# 6 Mike Tyson B2
# 7 Larry Holmes C2
# 8 Jack Dempsey D2
# 9 George Foreman A3
#10 Lennox Lewis B3
# 11 Joe Frazier C3
# 12 Jersey Joe Walcott D3
# 13 Evander Holyfield A4
# 14 James Jeffries B4
# 15 Harry Wills C4
#16 Ezzard Charles D4
# 17 Floyd Patterson A5
# 18 Max Schmeling B5
# 19 Sam Langford C5
# 20 Wladimir Klitschko D5
# 21 Riddick Bowe A6
# 22 Peter Jackson B6
# 23 Archie Moore C6
# 24 Gene Tunney D6
# 25 Max Baer A7
# 26 Tim Witherspoon B7
# 27 Joe Jenette C7
# 28 Ken Norton D7
# 29 Elmer Ray A8
# 30 Ingemar Johannson B8
# 31 Jack Sharkey C8
# 32 Cleveland Williams D8
# 33 Pinklon Thomas A9
# 34 Jimmy Young B9
# 35 James Corbett C9
# 36 Lee Q Murray D9
# 37 Ernie Terrell A10
# 38 Zora Folley B10
# 39 Vitali Klitschko C10
# 40 George Godfrey D10
# 41 Harold Johnson A11
# 42 Jerry Quarry B11
# 39 Sam Mcvea C11
# 44 David Tua D11
# 45 Ron Lyle A12
# 46 Clarence Henry B12
# 47 Eddie Machen C12
# 48 Tony Tucker D12
# 49 Primo Carnera A13
# 50 Tony Tubbs B13
# 51 Buster Douglas C13
# 52 Gerry Cooney D13
# 53 Fred Fulton A14
# 54 Tommy Loughran B14
# 55 Razor Ruddock C14
# 56 Nino Valdez D14
# 57 Rex Layne A15
# 58 Michael Moorer B15
# 59 Greg Page C15
# 60 Earnie Shavers D15
# 61 Roland Lastarza A16
# 62 Jimmy Bivins B16
# 63 Hasim Rahman C16
# 64 Billy Miske D16



The Finals of Each Division(A's, Bs, Cs, Ds) will the the Elite 8 Match


A's Winner moves into Final 4

D's Winner moves into Final 4

A Winner vs D Winner moves on to Finals


C's Winner moves into Final 4

B's Winner moves into Final 4

C Winner vs B Winner moves on to Finals



Winner of As/Ds vs Winner of Cs/Bs in Finals!!

[SuzieQ49]

This took me a good 2-3 hours to do. I had the free time so what the hell lol

[McGrain]

Right, i'm going to have a fucking go at the first round Q. Here I go.

[JohnThomas1]

If this is Super Greg on his best night i gotta have some time to think Suze

:lol:

:D

[SuzieQ49]

John, I have to tell you...when I found out my bracket formula had Page meeting holmes in the first round....It literally made me laugh out loud. It was all random. But this is each fighter at there best, and page finally gets his shot here!!

[JohnThomas1]

Winner in blue

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[JohnThomas1]

John, I have to tell you...when I found out my bracket formula had Page meeting holmes in the first round....It literally made me laugh out loud. It was all random. But this is each fighter at there best, and page finally gets his shot here!!

:lol:


I did think oh my, what a coincidence :lol:

[JohnThomas1]

There has to be upsets, and i've taken Tucker, Tua and Cooney as my dark horses. I am confident Douglas at his best takes Wills.

[SuzieQ49]

IF you look at the bracket, its If Douglas gets by the first round, he can easily end up in the Sweet 16 vs sonny liston

[McGrain]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza Louis WPTS
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas Thomas WTPS
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle Patterson WPTS
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs Holyfield TK10
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran Lougran WPTS
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson Bowe WPTS
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell Baer KO12
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne Johnson WPTS

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske Marciano WPTS
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray Williams KO12
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker Wlad WPTS
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney Charles WPTS
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez Walcott WPTS
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua Tunney WPTS
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey Godfrey WPTS
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers Dempsey KO2


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman Liston K03
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett Corbett WPTS
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen Langford KO10
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas Wills wpts
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock Frazier TKO11
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea Moore WPTS
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko Vitali WPTS
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page Holmes WPTS


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins Ali WPTS
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young Young WPTS
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry Schmeling wpts
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera Jefries wpts
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton Lewis KO5
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry Jackosn WPTS
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley Draw
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer Tyson WPTS

[SuzieQ49]

Thank you for your picks, both have you have as high as # 12 and # 14 seeds upsetting!

[Ponysmallhorse]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza - Louis
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas - Pinklon
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle - Floyd
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs - Evander(its just can't go other way)
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran - hmm hardly upset possible.
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson - well if i should pick an upset among this fights ill pick this - Harold
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell - Max
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne - jack

[SuzieQ49]

keep em coming Pony

[JohnThomas1]

Excellent tourney btw mate, cheers.

[SuzieQ49]

Anyone else a little concerned for joe frazier in the opening round?



- Thanx John, i hope to see you and your predictions for every following round. it wont start getting real exciting till were down to sweet 16.

[asero]

tua over tunney....i like it!!!

[Ponysmallhorse]

keep em coming Pony
first 8 is easy.

[JohnThomas1]

tua over tunney....i like it!!!

:lol:

I'll stick with that one too.

[Ponysmallhorse]

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske - com on, you could pick MUCh better for rocky:)- Rocky
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray - Cleveland
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker -Tucker able to score an upset. Thos os MUCH more competitive that others. But i still pick Wlad.
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney - Conney. O would not say that huge conney is underdog here:)
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez - Walcot
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua - Tua)
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey -Noeton(i like him too much :))
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers - it can go 2 ways^ 1- Shavers Ko in first 4 rounds 2- Dempsey UD.

[Ponysmallhorse]

# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman - Rahman can score it. BUT HE WONT:) Liston with jab TKO(God i hate Rahman)
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett - Sharkey
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen - cant see machen wining this one.... Sam
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas - Baster
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock - fraizer no doubt
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea - Archie
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko - HOW IN HELL!? Joe is shorter for 27 cm :) How in HELL?
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page -WHOOOOO this is could be one hell of the fight. Still Holmes UD.

[Ponysmallhorse]

# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins - this can be competitive for 1-2 rounds but after 3rd nothing except HORRIBLE beating is waiting for Ali:) joking:) - Ali tko 5.
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young - Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry - Max)
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera - Primo is tall fuck and I hate him) James Ko 1 0:01 of the fight)
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton - Lewis VICIOUS KO:)
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry - Peter
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley - Zora is funny pick) - Tim
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer -thats can be interesting!!! Never saw Mike against good southpow. But I pick mike.

[SuzieQ49]

I would like to offer my sincere apologies to tom sharkey fans out there. I realized I completley forgot about him. Had I not been deterred, I would have put him on my list as he is defintley good enough to make it into the tournament. Most likely though, he would have gone up against one of the 10 greatest heavyweights of all time in the first round, so the odds of him making it out of the first round were slim. but he still deserved to get his name in the tournament, but since its started there is no turning back. My aplogies. does anyone have a major problem with this? if so ill see if i can work around it.

[ChrisPontius]

Good stuff. Here are my picks:


First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas - Both men had very short but impressive runs. I've never seen Ray on film, so this is kind of a wildcard, but i'm giving him the upset favor over Thomas, who is one hell of a fighter by the way.
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran - Loughran may have a better chance than expected, but ultimately, you gotta favor big George
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell - I think Terrel's skills would make the difference here
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray - I haven't seen Murray, so this one could go either way, but Williams probably has the greater legacy, so i'll give it to him
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua - Some will find this to be a stretch, and i do too in a way, because i think quite highly of Tua. However, i think the Byrd fight is telling here. Byrd, also a smaller man, easily outboxed him and even hurt him. The big question is: can Tunney take a Tua hook? Byrd could, but Tunney might be in for a normal count and find himself losing... however, my upset pick is Tunney by UD.
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman - Interesting fight. Both incredibly strong, powerful but somewhat slow. I think what will makes the difference is durability - Liston has it, Rahman doesn't.
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera - Over 20 or 25 rounds, i'd favor Jeffries, but i think Carnera would outbox Jeffries, whose style is not really that suited (nor designed) for modern, gloved boxing.
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton - Look for a first round KO like the Golota fight; Lewis always went agressive against tall fighters and Fulton has a pretty weak jaw
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry - I have no idea here, never seen Jackson. I flipped a coin and Quarry won. :)
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[SuzieQ49]

Seems people dont think Ruddock poses a threat to Frazier.

[JohnThomas1]

# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua - Some will find this to be a stretch, and i do too in a way, because i think quite highly of Tua. However, i think the Byrd fight is telling here. Byrd, also a smaller man, easily outboxed him and even hurt him. The big question is: can Tunney take a Tua hook? Byrd could, but Tunney might be in for a normal count and find himself losing... however, my upset pick is Tunney by UD.


Here i was thinking i'd gone for the upset by picking Tua hahaha. Good stuff.

[JohnThomas1]

Seems people dont think Ruddock poses a threat to Frazier.

I thought he posed a huge one, but went fro Frazier as the safer pick.

[GPater11093]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer


sorry SuzyQ about that edited now

[SuzieQ49]

Gpater! but thanx for your first round picks!!!! stay tuned!


Attention Posters....First Round Picks ONLY

[McGrain]

Hahahahhaha god forgive me i am curious! I'll be back in ten hours!

[ChrisPontius]

Seems people dont think Ruddock poses a threat to Frazier.

I'm pretty confident about Frazier knocking out Ruddock. Ruddock is no Foreman. I think he might put Frazier on the canvas early, but Frazier will come back and come back stronger. Perhaps not dissimilar to the Morrison fight. Which brings me to my next point, which i'm sure you'll appreciate: Ruddock, even if somewhat past his best, couldn't stop Morrison!



Here i was thinking i'd gone for the upset by picking Tua hahaha. Good stuff.

:D

This is definitely one of those fights that can be argued either way. Good to know that we both managed to pick the upset, despite opposing outcomes.

[SuzieQ49]

Id like about 6 to 8 more posters to offer there opinions by miday tomorrow, before the results come back. Ted Spoon, John Garfield, Mendoza, Janitor, Old Fogey, Magoo,Seamus, MF, etc etc...any of you out there PLEASE CHIME IN

[GPater11093]

Id like about 6 to 8 more posters to offer there opinions by miday tomorrow, before the results come back. Ted Spoon, John Garfield, Mendoza, Janitor, Old Fogey, Magoo,Seamus, MF, etc etc...any of you out there PLEASE CHIME IN

our opinons not valued :D

[SuzieQ49]

Your opinions are valued with enthusiasm! hope to see you back in the 2nd round!

[Jear]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza LOUIS
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas THOMAS
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle LYLE
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs HOLYFIELD
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran FOREMAN
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson BOWE
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell BAER
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne JOHNSON

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske MARCIANO
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray WILLIAMS
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker TUCKER
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney COONEY
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez WALCOTT
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua TUA
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey GODFREY
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers DEMPSEY


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman LISTON
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett CORBETT
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen LANGFORD
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas DOUGLAS
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock FRAZIER
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea MOORE
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko KLITSCHKO
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page HOLMES


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins ALI
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young YOUNG
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry SCHMELLING
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera JEFFERIES
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton LEWIS
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry JACKSON
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley FOLLEY
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer TYSON

[PhillyPhan69]

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[OLD FOGEY]

Well, with modern steroids and HGH, I don't know how this is fair, but I'll play the game--assuming no one gets to use supplements.

Louis ko's LaStarza
Ray dec Thomas
Lyle ko's Patterson--(Patterson consistently had trouble with big men)
Holyfield dec Tubbs
Foreman dec Loughran (in surprising tight fight)
Johnson dec Bowe (Bowe 25 lbs lighter without steroids)
Baer ko's Terrell (Baer way behind when he pulls it out with big right)
Layne dec Johnson (you want an upset--Layne's good jab difference)

Marciano ko's Miske
Murray ko's Williams
Wlad ko's Tucker
Charles dec Cooney (class beats size)
Walcott dec Valdes
Tunney dec Tua
Godfrey ko's Norton (Norton's record against sluggers poor)
Dempsey ko's Shavers

Liston ko's Rahman
Corbett dec Sharkey
Machen dec Langford (I think Eddie paints Sam with jabs-modern skill +)
Wills ko's Douglas
Frazier ko's Ruddick
Moore tko's McVea
Vitali dec Jeannette (even w/o steroids, I think Vitali too big)
Holmes dec Page

Ali dec Bivins
Ingo ko's Young (strategic fight ends suddenly with big right)
Schmeling dec Henry (in very close fight)
Jeff ko's Carnera (bad draw for Primo)
Lewis ko's Fulton (easiest pick of first round)
Jackson dec Quarry
Witherspoon ko's Folley (glass jaw & vulnerability to right sinks Zora)
Tyson ko's Moorer

[mcvey]

This took me a good 2-3 hours to do. I had the free time so what the hell lol
Just when this Forum was getting nice and quiet ,you come back from your "Black Ops" training and cause trouble.
Why don't you" go upriver" and look for Colonel Kurtz or something?

[scartissue]

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

Very innovative tourney, dude. Man, there are some matches here that I would never have gone with on a 'best of' level, but on a head to head I had to acquiesce that Terrell would probably outbox Baer, Cooney's jab would likely rock the smaller Charles to his foundations, Machen would likely use his physical advantages over the dimunitive Langford and so on. Looking forward to the next round.

Scartissue

[Mendoza]

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza...louis
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas ..thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle ...lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs..holy
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran ..foreman
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson ..bowe
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell...terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne...johnson

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske ...marciano
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray..hard to say, williams
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker...W. klitschko
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney...cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez...walcot
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua ..tunney
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey...norton
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers ..dempsey


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman...liston
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett ...corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen...langford
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas ...wills
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock ...frazier
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea...moore
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko..V klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page..Holmes


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins..ali
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young..younf
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry..schmeling
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera..jeffries
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton..lewis
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry..jackson
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley..witherspoon
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer..tyson

[biglads]

Winners bolded


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza KO5
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas TKO8
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle TKO11
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs UD
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran KO2
# 6 Riddick Bowevs # 11 Harold Johnson KO4
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell TKO3
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne UD

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske TKO2
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray KO4
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker MD
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney UD
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez UD
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua UD
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey SD
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers KO1


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman KO3
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett UD
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen KO7
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas UD
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock KO9
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea UD
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko UD
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page MD


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins UD
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young UD
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry KO10
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera KO4
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton KO1
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry TKO10
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley SD
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer KO3

[JohnThomas1]

I'd like to still see Drew101, Meta5 and Stoney among many others.

[biglads]

I'm going to sim all of these fights in Title Bout Boxing and post the results as well

[The Kurgan]

Winners are underlined and italicized, except for Rocky Marciano, who is ultra-italicized.


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney :scaredas:
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young :barf
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

There's a lot of good fights above, and some that would be utter stinkers.

[Bokaj]

Seems people dont think Ruddock poses a threat to Frazier.

I do. I think Ruddock might possibly be the worst fighter Frazier could lose to. Ruddock was very limited, but he was tough, strong and durable, and he had that left uppercut... This could go all wrong for Joe. Really hate to say it, but there it is.

[jaffay]

this is :good

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[biglads]

I'm going to sim all of these fights in Title Bout Boxing and post the results as well

Here's what I got

LOUIS KO1 LaStarza
THOMAS TKO11 Ray
PATTERSON TKO4 Lyle
TUBBS WDQ12 Holyfield (Headbutt)
LOUGHRAN UD15 Foreman
BOWE KO3 Johnson
TERRELL TKO6 Baer (Cuts)
JOHNSON TKO13 Layne

MARCIANO UD15 Miske
MURRAY KO8 Williams
W.KLITSCHKO KO11 Tucker
CHARLES UD15 Cooney
WALCOTT KO11 Valdez
TUNNEY UD15 Tua
GODFREY KO10 Norton
DEMPSEY TKO4 Shavers


LISTON KO5 Rahman
SHARKEY UD15 Corbett
LANGFORD KO10 Machen
WILLS UD15 Douglas
FRAZIER TKO4 Ruddock
MCVEY TKO10 Moore
V.KLITSCHKO TKO5 Jeanette (Eye Damage, first meeting a Draw)
HOLMES KO9 Page


ALI UD15 Bivins
JOHANSSON TKO4 Young
SCHMELING UD15 Henry
JEFFRIES WDQ14 Carnera (Low Blow)
LEWIS TKO9 Fulton
JACKSON TKO10 Quarry (Eye Damage)
FOLLEY MD15 Witherspoon
TYSON TKO12 Moorer

[JohnThomas1]

Winners are underlined and italicized, except for Rocky Marciano, who is ultra-italicized.


:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney :scaredas:


And to think, i thought i'd be alone on this one.

[hhascup]

I didn't have too much time to look this over BUT here's what I came up with:

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza (Louis)
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas (Ray) Close
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle (Patterson)
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs (Holyfield)
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran (Foreman)
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson (Bowe)
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell (Baer)
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne (Johnson)

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske (Marciano)
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray (Williams) Close
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker (Klitschko)
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney (Charles)
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez (Walcott)
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua (Tunney)
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey (Norton)
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers (Dempsey)


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman (Liston)
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett (Sharkey)
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen (Langford)
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas (Wills)
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock (Frazier)
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea (Moore)
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko (Klitschko)
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page (Holmes)


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins (Ali)
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young (Johannson)
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry (Schmeling)
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera (Jeffries)
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton (Lewis)
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry (Jackson) Close
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley (Witherspoon) Close
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer (Tyson)

[Mendoza]

I think some of the more interesting match ups in round one are:

# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas >>No film on Ray, plenty on Thomas.

# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle >>> On styles Lyle likely to upset if you ask me.

# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell >Terrell was a pretty good boxer and not an easy guy to stop. Baer as often lazy, and not a very good boxer.

# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray >>Might be the toughest pick here.

# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney >>Cooney's size and power might be too much for Charles who came to fight, and did not have a top chin. This is the biggest upset chance for a low seed.

# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett >>Solid seeding makes these 8 vs 9 match ups interesting. Plus you never know which Sharkey is going to show up.

# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young >>The slick boxers usually beat the pure puncher types. Can Ingo land the his big shot or not?

#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry >> Since there is no film on Jackson, this might be a hard pick for some. I like Jackson here, as he was a very good boxer puncher.

[SuzieQ49]

# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney >>Cooney's size and power might be too much for Charles who came to fight, and did not have a top chin. This is the biggest upset chance for a low seed.


Well, Light-Heavyweight Michael Spinks had no problem taking apart cooney in only 5 rounds.

[The Kurgan]

Well, Light-Heavyweight Michael Spinks had no problem taking apart cooney in only 5 rounds.

True, but that was an older and inactive Cooney. People forget that Cooney gave Larry Holmes hell for 13 rounds and had Holmes utterly spent by the last round; that night, Cooney threw some of the hardest bodypunches I've ever seen, which had Holmes wilting from single punches in a way that suggested he'd been on the receiving end of rounds of heavy swarming to the body. Bearing in mind that Charles would have to exchange more than Holmes and had both less power and less durability, and I find myself having to favour Cooney.

[Mendoza]

True, but that was an older and inactive Cooney. People forget that Cooney gave Larry Holmes hell for 13 rounds and had Holmes utterly spent by the last round. Bearing in mind that Charles would have to exchange more than Holmes and had both less power and less durability, and I find myself having to favour Cooney.

Right. Cooney was spent by the time he fought Spinks. But the guy leading up to and during the Holmes fight was much better.

[JohnThomas1]

True, but that was an older and inactive Cooney. People forget that Cooney gave Larry Holmes hell for 13 rounds and had Holmes utterly spent by the last round; that night, Cooney threw some of the hardest bodypunches I've ever seen, which had Holmes wilting from single punches in a way that suggested he'd been on the receiving end of rounds of heavy swarming to the body. Bearing in mind that Charles would have to exchange more than Holmes and had both less power and less durability, and I find myself having to favour Cooney.

:good

[Mendoza]

Props also must be given to JT for picking Holmes over Page. Thumbs up.

[The Kurgan]

Right. Cooney was spent by the time he fought Spinks. But the guy leading up to and during the Holmes fight was much better.

It's hard to judge from Cooney's fights with Lyle, Young and Norton, considering that it was the end for Lyle and Norton and that Young was totally unpredictable (he could be ATG quality one night and a journeyman the next) but if nothing else, one has to give Cooney a lot of credit for the Holmes fight. Cooney was relentless that night, showed a good jab, and threw monstrous body shots from the outside with weird angles that made them hard to counter.

It's not so much that Charles's chin would cost him against Cooney (I'd be surprised if Gerry landed many power-punches to the head) but Cooney's body-shots, size and strength would wear Charles down.

[OLD FOGEY]

I think some of the more interesting match ups in round one are:

# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas >>No film on Ray, plenty on Thomas.

# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle >>> On styles Lyle likely to upset if you ask me.

# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell >Terrell was a pretty good boxer and not an easy guy to stop. Baer as often lazy, and not a very good boxer.

# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray >>Might be the toughest pick here.

# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney >>Cooney's size and power might be too much for Charles who came to fight, and did not have a top chin. This is the biggest upset chance for a low seed.

# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett >>Solid seeding makes these 8 vs 9 match ups interesting. Plus you never know which Sharkey is going to show up.

# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young >>The slick boxers usually beat the pure puncher types. Can Ingo land the his big shot or not?

#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry >> Since there is no film on Jackson, this might be a hard pick for some. I like Jackson here, as he was a very good boxer puncher.

Johansson was not a crude slugger, though. He could box. I personally think that Young has all the wrong style for Johansson who would be moving around him waiting to potshot that right, and with Young not really having much power, I think Ingo will be able to let that right go quite a bit.

I think Johansson would have much more trouble with someone who pressured him, as Patterson did in their second fight.

[The Kurgan]

I see Ingo spending all night looking for an option to throw that right hand and never finding it. He'd flick out his jab, miss most of them and more or less follow Young around for 15 rounds. Young would jab, throw an occasional counter and tie-up the moment things got too close. It would be a horrendous fight and the judges might have to be recussitated on multiple occasions.

[OLD FOGEY]

I see Ingo spending all night looking for an option to throw that right hand and never finding it. He'd flick out his jab, miss most of them and more or less follow Young around for 15 rounds. Young would jab, throw an occasional counter and tie-up the moment things got too close. It would be a horrendous fight and the judges might have to be recussitated on multiple occasions.

"tie-up the moment things got too close"

Johansson wanted to fight on the inside?

Johansson would want distance to throw that right. Nobody picks it, but I think Ingo might win this on a decision as Young is in a shell protecting against the right and it is indeed a very boring fight with Ingo showing the little aggresssion there is and getting the duke after they wake up the judges.

[JohnThomas1]

Props also must be given to JT for picking Holmes over Page. Thumbs up.

Well i have to be reasonable. Picking Page to have a great chance of upsetting the 1983 Holmes if he turned up at his best is a bit different to picking Page over the best versions of Holmes ever. IMO Holmes was slowly declining even by the Cooney fight and very definitely by the time he and Page almost fought.

There are very very few people i would pick over peak Holmes. I've always shaded peak Ali over him, but apart from that i have no real conviction picking anyone at all. Unless he runs into Ali you will likely find me picking him all the way thru this.

[The Kurgan]

"tie-up the moment things got too close"

Johansson wanted to fight on the inside?

No, but there's the danger that something might actually happen, and Young would never allow for such a possibility.

Johansson would want distance to throw that right. Nobody picks it, but I think Ingo might win this on a decision as Young is in a shell protecting against the right and it is indeed a very boring fight with Ingo showing the little aggresssion there is and getting the duke after they wake up the judges.

Ingo's best bet is to out-work Young in the jab department, but I'm not sure Ingo's jab was accurate enough or hard enough to win over the judges. Personally, I would probably score the fight 0-0-15 if it was an option or disqualify both men if I was a ref. I'm getting mad about this fight and it hasn't even happened! :twisted:

[Mendoza]

Johansson was not a crude slugger, though. He could box. I personally think that Young has all the wrong style for Johansson who would be moving around him waiting to potshot that right, and with Young not really having much power, I think Ingo will be able to let that right go quite a bit.

I think Johansson would have much more trouble with someone who pressured him, as Patterson did in their second fight.

I would say Ingo was an average boxer. He really did not have a good jab or left hook. He was mostly a right hand banger, not a relentless swarmer as say Joe Frazier was. Frazier ate up and spit of smallish boxer types.

The question here is will Young give away many rounds? Young to me is a limited puncher's worst nightmare, because he was not only a good boxer, but had great defensive head movements.

Either way, I think this is one of the better matchups in round one.

[Doppleganger]

Hope you still want input. :p

Winners in pink!

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[SuzieQ49]

I am now issueing a last call for posters that still want to get there predictions in. Alot of good data so far.

[Muchmoore]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

The winner is written in bigger font. I found Wills-Douglas was the hardest for me to pick. Douglas was great against Tyson and would give Wills all he could handle and more, but due to Wills longevity and being much, much more proven at the top level than Douglas, I had to choose him. Probably by a close decision.

[teeto]

# 1 JOE LOUIS vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 PINKLON THOMAS
# 5 FLOYD PATTERSON vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 EVANDER HOLYFIELD vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 GEORGE FOREMAN vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 RIDDICK BOWE vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 MAX BAER vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 JACK JOHNSON vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 ROCKY MARCIANO vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 CLEVELAND WILLIAMS vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 EZZARD CHARLES vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 JERSEY JOE WALCOTT vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 GENE TUNNEY vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 KEN NORTON vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 JACK DEMPSEY vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 SONNY LISTON vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 JACK SHARKEY vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 SAM LANGFORD vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 HARRY WILLS vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 JOE FRAZIER vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 SAM MCVEA
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 VITALI KLITSCHKO
# 2 LARRY HOLMES vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 MUHAMMAD ALI vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 INGEMARR JOHANSSON vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 MAX SCHMELING vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 JAMES JEFFRIES vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 LENNOX LEWIS vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 JERRY QUARRY
#7 TIM WITHERSPOON vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 MIKE TYSON vs # 15 Michael Moorer

Winners in bold caps

[la-califa]

What are your opening round picks? Feel free to pick a couple upsets as we know in march madness that happens EVERY YEAR! But Please make predictions for the opening round. there is 32 picks!!



Here it is my NCAA 64 man March Madness Heavyweight Bracket opening round


First Round


# 1 JOE LOUIS vs # 16 Roland Lastarza KO 4.
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 PINKLON THOMAS UD. Thomas' jab too much
# 5 FLOYD PATTERSON vs # 12 Ron Lyle Might have to come off the canvas for a Dec. win
# 4 EVANDER HOLYFIELD vs # 13 Tony Tubbs UD Win. Tubbs runs out of gas late
# 3 GEORGE FOREMAN vs # 14 Tommy Lougran KO in 3 #RIDDICK BOWE vs # 11 Harold Johnson Split Dec.
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 ERNIE TERREL UD. Baer outboxed over distance.
# 2 JACK JOHNSON vs # 15 Rex Layne KO in 5
# 1 ROCKY MARCIANO vs # 16 Billy Miske KO 2
# 8 CLEVELAND WILLIAMS vs # 9 Lee Q Murray # 5 WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO vs # 12 Tony Tucker Comes off the canvas for the decision
# 4 EZZARD CHARLES vs # 13 Gerry Cooney Charles stops Cooney late
# 3 JERSEY JOE WALCOTT vs # 14 Nino Valdez Valdez tough, Walcott by dec.
# 6 GENE TUNNEY vs # 11 David Tua Tunney sticks to gameplan, dec. win
# 7 KEN NORTON vs # 10 George Godfrey Unanimous dec.
# 2 JACK DEMPSEY vs # 15 Earnie Shavers DEmpsey too much for slow moving Shavers


# 1 SONNY LISTON vs # 16 Hasim Rahman The rock shattered into pebbles
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 JAMES CORBETT Corbett easily outboxes Sharkey
# 5 SAM LANGFORD vs # 12 Eddie Machen tenth round stoppage
# 4 HARRY WILLS vs # 13 Buster Douglas Harry wins a battle of Wills!
# 3 JOE FRAZIER vs # 14 Razor Ruddock a UD win for smokin' joe
# 6 ARCHIE MOORE vs # 11 Sam Mcvea UD win for the 'ol mongoose
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 VITALI KLITSHKO Tough fight, Vitali by split dec.
# 2 LARRY HOLMES vs # 15 Greg Page Holmes by close dec.


# 1 MUHAMMED ALI vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins Ali UD victory
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 JIMMY YOUNG Too much defense. UD
# 5 MAX SCHMELLING vs #12 Clarence Henry Max's right ends it in nine
#4 JAMES JEFFERIES vs # 13 Primo Carnera A wild affair, KO in 5
#3 LENNOX LEWIS vs # 14 Fred Fulton Lewis tko in 8
#6 PETER JACKSON vs #11 Jerry Quarry Jerry gives his all but outclassed. Jackson UD.
#7 TIM WITHERSPOON vs #10 Zora Folley Terrible Timmy UD
#2 MIKE TYSON vs # 15 Michael Moorer Good while it lasted. Tyson Ko in 6






Here is the seeding and Bracket Formula. This is the best formula possible to make it unbias and fair. If one of the the four divisions got loaded with talent in the opening round, then tough luck. that is the bracket and its how the seeding works with my top 64 rankings. everyone fits into a specific formula.



#1 Joe Louis A1
# 2 Muhammad Ali B1
# 3 Sonny Liston C1
# 4 Rocky Marciano D1
# 5 Jack Johnson A2
# 6 Mike Tyson B2
# 7 Larry Holmes C2
# 8 Jack Dempsey D2
# 9 George Foreman A3
#10 Lennox Lewis B3
# 11 Joe Frazier C3
# 12 Jersey Joe Walcott D3
# 13 Evander Holyfield A4
# 14 James Jeffries B4
# 15 Harry Wills C4
#16 Ezzard Charles D4
# 17 Floyd Patterson A5
# 18 Max Schmeling B5
# 19 Sam Langford C5
# 20 Wladimir Klitschko D5
# 21 Riddick Bowe A6
# 22 Peter Jackson B6
# 23 Archie Moore C6
# 24 Gene Tunney D6
# 25 Max Baer A7
# 26 Tim Witherspoon B7
# 27 Joe Jenette C7
# 28 Ken Norton D7
# 29 Elmer Ray A8
# 30 Ingemar Johannson B8
# 31 Jack Sharkey C8
# 32 Cleveland Williams D8
# 33 Pinklon Thomas A9
# 34 Jimmy Young B9
# 35 James Corbett C9
# 36 Lee Q Murray D9
# 37 Ernie Terrell A10
# 38 Zora Folley B10
# 39 Vitali Klitschko C10
# 40 George Godfrey D10
# 41 Harold Johnson A11
# 42 Jerry Quarry B11
# 39 Sam Mcvea C11
# 44 David Tua D11
# 45 Ron Lyle A12
# 46 Clarence Henry B12
# 47 Eddie Machen C12
# 48 Tony Tucker D12
# 49 Primo Carnera A13
# 50 Tony Tubbs B13
# 51 Buster Douglas C13
# 52 Gerry Cooney D13
# 53 Fred Fulton A14
# 54 Tommy Loughran B14
# 55 Razor Ruddock C14
# 56 Nino Valdez D14
# 57 Rex Layne A15
# 58 Michael Moorer B15
# 59 Greg Page C15
# 60 Earnie Shavers D15
# 61 Roland Lastarza A16
# 62 Jimmy Bivins B16
# 63 Hasim Rahman C16
# 64 Billy Miske D16



The Finals of Each Division(A's, Bs, Cs, Ds) will the the Elite 8 Match


A's Winner moves into Final 4

D's Winner moves into Final 4

A Winner vs D Winner moves on to Finals


C's Winner moves into Final 4

B's Winner moves into Final 4

C Winner vs B Winner moves on to Finals



Winner of As/Ds vs Winner of Cs/Bs in Finals!! Here's the list for the first round.

[SuzieQ49]

Wow some touch decisions to make. I already have 1/4 of the picks done....ill be finishing the rest tonite. There might be some dissapointment for your fans, but then again...thats what happens in march madness every year! if your good at figuring brackets out, some of these guys have very tough draws.

[Sister Sledge]

I hope I'm not to late to get my picks in.

Winners are in orange.

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[Quick Cash]

First Round


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young -PASS
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry -PASS
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[Mendoza]

When does the next round start?

[SuzieQ49]

Results come out Today

[OLD FOGEY]

I would say Ingo was an average boxer. He really did not have a good jab or left hook. He was mostly a right hand banger, not a relentless swarmer as say Joe Frazier was. Frazier ate up and spit of smallish boxer types.

The question here is will Young give away many rounds? Young to me is a limited puncher's worst nightmare, because he was not only a good boxer, but had great defensive head movements.

Either way, I think this is one of the better matchups in round one.

"I would say Ingo was an average boxer. He really did not have a good jab or left hook."

There is film of Ingo against Hein Ten Hoff and Uber Bacilieri which can be accessed via his biography section at Boxrec. I think you mentioned you have seen the Ten Hoff knockout. The Bacilieri fight does give a chance to study his boxing skills.

Ingo definitely did not have much of a left. He pawed with his jab. I did not see him even use a left hook against Bacilieri in eight rounds.

However, Ingo shows quick feet and very good defensive skills. If you look at a photo of Ingo in his later years, there would be no indication he ever was a boxer. He was unmarked. He simply did not get hit that often except by Patterson and even Floyd had trouble hitting Ingo clean, which Floyd commented upon in interviews I have read. He did catch up with Ingo in their second and third fights, showing Ingo had a weak jaw, but I had Ingo ahead at the time of the ko in their third fight. I didn't see Bacilieri land even one good punch in this fight.

You point out how Vitali has won most of his rounds. I would bet that Ingo had a pretty good ratio of rounds won himself, and he never lost a fight on points.

[Holmes' Jab]

My choice for winners (in bold):


# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[OBCboxer]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer

[Mendoza]

"I would say Ingo was an average boxer. He really did not have a good jab or left hook."

There is film of Ingo against Hein Ten Hoff and Uber Bacilieri which can be accessed via his biography section at Boxrec. I think you mentioned you have seen the Ten Hoff knockout. The Bacilieri fight does give a chance to study his boxing skills.

Ingo definitely did not have much of a left. He pawed with his jab. I did not see him even use a left hook against Bacilieri in eight rounds.

However, Ingo shows quick feet and very good defensive skills. If you look at a photo of Ingo in his later years, there would be no indication he ever was a boxer. He was unmarked. He simply did not get hit that often except by Patterson and even Floyd had trouble hitting Ingo clean, which Floyd commented upon in interviews I have read. He did catch up with Ingo in their second and third fights, showing Ingo had a weak jaw, but I had Ingo ahead at the time of the ko in their third fight. I didn't see Bacilieri land even one good punch in this fight.

You point out how Vitali has won most of his rounds. I would bet that Ingo had a pretty good ratio of rounds won himself, and he never lost a fight on points.

Vitlai is much harder to out box. Ingo was small, lacked range, was not overly quick with his feet, and as you said lacked a good left and pawed with his jab. Aside from being one of the weaker lineal champions, Ingo only had 26 fights.

I don't have the score cards on some of his longer matches London or Erskine but i Tend to beleive these guys won a few rounds. If is plausible that Ingo was behind in his DQ in 5 win over Pellegrini since Ingo was knocked down in that fight.

Vitlai has not lost more than two rounds vs any fighter, nor has he been behind on the score cards after three rounds.

I saw the Hoff match. It was Hoff's last fight and a mis-match. Ingo drills him.

[OLD FOGEY]

Vitlai is much harder to out box. Ingo was small, lacked range, was not overly quick with his feet, and as you said lacked a good left and pawed with his jab. Aside from being one of the weaker lineal champions, Ingo only had 26 fights.

I don't have the score cards on some of his longer matches London or Erskine but i Tend to beleive these guys won a few rounds. If is plausible that Ingo was behind in his DQ in 5 win over Pellegrini since Ingo was knocked down in that fight.

Vitlai has not lost more than two rounds vs any fighter, nor has he been behind on the score cards after three rounds.

I saw the Hoff match. It was Hoff's last fight and a mis-match. Ingo drills him.

Well, you are correct in the other thread that it is very difficult to outbox a man who is much bigger. Ingo was not bigger than most of his opponents, but I don't agree with your point. Vitali being a better boxer than Ingo does not prove Ingo was a mediocre boxer. You are, after all, arguing on another thread, and not illogically, that Vitali might be able to outbox almost everyone.

My point is that Ingo shows good movement on film to my eyes and quite a bit of defensive skill, both in movement, plus ducking and blocking punches. He does not seem to have taken much punishment in most of his fights. Vitali was cut up more in some fights than Ingo ever was. I think, though, that Ingo had a weak jaw for a champion.

If Ingo could outbox fighters of his own era, he was a good boxer in my judgement, whatever his lack of size versus men of generations later.

[SuzieQ49]

Vitlai has not lost more than two rounds vs any fighter, nor has he been behind on the score cards after three rounds.

Vitali LOST the two biggest fights of his career! thats a more important statistic

[CottoDaBodykill]

Joe louis over roland lastarza
pinklon thomas over elmer ray
ron lyle over floyd patterson
evander holyfield over tony tubbs
george foreman over tommy loughran
riddick bowe over harold johnson
max baer over ernie terrell
jack johnson over rex layne

rocky marciano over billy miske
clevleand williams over lee Q murray
Tony tucker over wladimer klitchko
ezzard charles over gerry cooney
nino valdez over jersey joe walcott
gene tunney over david tua
ken norton vs george godfrey
jack dempsey over earnie shavers

sonny liston over hasim rahman
jack sharkey over james corbett
sam langford over eddie machen
buster douglas over harry willis
joe frazier over razor ruddock
sam mcvea over archie moore
vitali klitchko over joe jeanette
larry holmes over greg page

muhamid ali over jimmy bivins
jimmy young over ingemar johannson
max schmeling over clarence henry
james jeffries over primo carnera
lennox lewis over fred fulton
jerry quarry over peter jackson
tim witherspoon over zora folley
mike tyson over michael moorer

[Ezzard]

# 1 Joe Louis vs # 16 Roland Lastarza
# 8 Elmer Ray vs # 9 Pinklon Thomas
# 5 Floyd Patterson vs # 12 Ron Lyle
# 4 Evander Holyfield vs # 13 Tony Tubbs
# 3 George Foreman vs # 14 Tommy Loughran
# 6 Riddick Bowe vs # 11 Harold Johnson
# 7 Max Baer vs # 10 Ernie Terrell
# 2 Jack Johnson vs # 15 Rex Layne

# 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 16 Billy Miske
# 8 Cleveland Williams vs # 9 Lee Q Murray
# 5 Wladimir Klitschko vs # 12 Tony Tucker
# 4 Ezzard Charles vs # 13 Gerry Cooney
# 3 Jersey Joe Walcott vs # 14 Nino Valdez
# 6 Gene Tunney vs # 11 David Tua
# 7 Ken Norton vs # 10 George Godfrey
# 2 Jack Dempsey vs # 15 Earnie Shavers


# 1 Sonny Liston vs # 16 Hasim Rahman
# 8 Jack Sharkey vs # 9 James Corbett
# 5 Sam Langford vs # 12 Eddie Machen
# 4 Harry Wills vs # 13 Buster Douglas
# 3 Joe Frazier vs # 14 Razor Ruddock
# 6 Archie Moore vs # 11 Sam Mcvea
# 7 Joe Jeanette vs # 10 Vitali Klitschko
# 2 Larry Holmes vs # 15 Greg Page


# 1 Muhammad Ali vs # 16 Jimmy Bivins
# 8 Ingemar Johannson vs #9 Jimmy Young
# 5 Max Schmeling vs #12 Clarence Henry
#4 James Jeffries vs # 13 Primo Carnera
#3 Lennox Lewis vs # 14 Fred Fulton
#6 Peter Jackson vs #11 Jerry Quarry
#7 Tim Witherspoon vs #10 Zora Folley
#2 Mike Tyson vs # 15 Michael Moorer