Prime Bernard Hopkins vs Prime Jake Lamotta at 160

[YouFOOL85]

Who wins this fight? Could B-Hop stop the Raging Bull or would the Raging Bull be the first to knock out B-Hop?

[SuzieQ49]

Peak for Peak? I like Hopkins by close unanimous decision in a great fight

[laxpdx]

I think the relentless aggression of the Raging Bull would wear X out late.

[Russell]

Hopkin's nullifies everything LaMotta tries and beats him convincingly on points.

Mercy stoppage like the Johnson fight isn't out of the question, however.

[Bummy Davis]

Jake was real tough on the inside and strong..B-hop would engage and get sucked in...Jake outworks him for a 15 rd UD..getting stronger as the fight goes on

[brandon9624]

Jake by UD, Roy Jones would destroy him however, worse than Robinson. BHop's style would be perfect for a war with LaMotta.

[Flea Man]

B-Hop would nullify LaMotta. I know The Raging Bull was very strong, but so was Hopkins, and Hopkins is every bit as crafty as LaMotta, and tough too.

Close decision win for Hopkins.

[Russell]

Jake was real tough on the inside and strong..B-hop would engage and get sucked in...Jake outworks him for a 15 rd UD..getting stronger as the fight goes on

When did Hopkin's ever gas over the course of a fight in his prime?

His punch count and activity wasn't decreasing as the fight went to the late rounds against Johnson. He was actually screaming for the return of 15 rounds after that fight, even.

[Flea Man]

When did Hopkin's ever gas over the course of a fight in his prime?

His punch count and activity wasn't decreasing as the fight went to the late rounds against Johnson. He was actually screaming for the return of 15 rounds after that fight, even.

Agree with all of this. Hell, he could've gone 15 rounds against Pavlik and Calzaghe. Calzaghe would've been tougher, but seriously, Hopkins didn't do enough and Calzaghe didn't land enough for him to get gassed.

He would do fine in the time of 15 rounds.

[jc]

Hop picks him to peices.

Hopkins UD.

[JohnThomas1]

Hopkins by decision, but he'd sure have to work. His great technical abilities are the difference here.

[Minotauro]

Hopkins via competitive decision like 9-6.

[196osh]

Hopkins by clear UD

[Bummy Davis]

When did Hopkin's ever gas over the course of a fight in his prime?

His punch count and activity wasn't decreasing as the fight went to the late rounds against Johnson. He was actually screaming for the return of 15 rounds after that fight, even.


When was he ever in the ring with a pressure fighter the magnitude of Jake ...I just see Jake getting stronger down the stretch for a UD....At middleweight Jake was stronger

[196osh]

When was he ever in the ring with a pressure fighter the magnitude of Jake ...I just see Jake getting stronger down the stretch for a UD....At middleweight Jake was stronger

Master boxers who could also mix it up with a great chin, good stamina and power are not exactly the type of fighter a slowish pressure fighter even a great one with average power, would like to fight.

Particularly when I think Hopkins is probably a bigger man naturally.

[Bummy Davis]

Master boxers who could also mix it up with a great chin, good stamina and power are not exactly the type of fighter a slowish pressure fighter even a great one with average power, would like to fight.

Particularly when I think Hopkins is probably a bigger man naturally.


I think Hopkins was the weaker at 160 but B-Hop has the better frame for 175....Jake was a very strong fighter and his resume was better at middleweight. Hopkins big wins came over blown up Welters....Jake was in your chest and had fast hands for a bull.....B-Hop is not a slick fast handed mover with great power like SSR...Its a great match-up vs Jake....I like Jake

[196osh]

I think Hopkins was the weaker at 160 but B-Hop has the better frame for 175....Jake was a very strong fighter and his resume was better at middleweight. Hopkins big wins came over blown up Welters....Jake was in your chest and had fast hands for a bull.....B-Hop is not a slick fast handed mover with great power like SSR...Its a great match-up vs Jake....I like Jake

One think which is quite funny, LaMottas best win by miles is up against a "blown up" welter, whom he got dispatched by multiple times after it, and who he significantly outweighed.

I am not talking about resume. He did not have "fast hands" for anybody he had average handspeed at very best, also he has very slow feet.


Basically style wise Jake is at a disadvantage, skills wise he is at a disadvantage and hell he is disadvantaged in nearly all facets of what would help you win a boxing match.

Short, slow pressure fighters with average power will not trouble Bernard Hopkins, Speed would trouble him. La Motta would get outboxed and badly, Hopkins has very good handspeed as well, and was significantly better defensivly than Robinson.

[SuzieQ49]

One think which is quite funny, LaMottas best win by miles is up against a "blown up" welter, whom he got dispatched by multiple times after it, and who he significantly outweighed.


Robinson weighed in no more than 152lb even in his middleweight prime, so him weighing in at around 145lb vs Jake Lamotta should not be discounted. Lamotta was the first to beat a Prime Sugar Ray Robinson, the greatest fighter this earths ever seen. Give the man his due.

Also, I would like to add why not say Marcel Cerdan(top 15 middleweight) was his greatest win? Lamotta floored cerdan in the first with a left hook then beat the shit out of him, then cerdan tried to get physical and lamottas strength caused cerdan to hurt his shoulder. then the next 9 rounds lamotta beat the shit out of a great middleweight some more. Once again, give the man his due. Marcel Cerdan is a great fighter.

[SuzieQ49]

Short, slow pressure fighters with average power

Lamotta in his prime was not slow. He was quite quick. He was short, but he also had unbelievable strength, Concrete Chin, and Human Windmill like Stamina where he would never get tired in his prime. Lamotta was very adapt defensivley, slipping jabs very well

[196osh]

Robinson weighed in no more than 152lb even in his middleweight prime, so him weighing in at around 145lb vs Jake Lamotta should not be discounted. Lamotta was the first to beat a Prime Sugar Ray Robinson, the greatest fighter this earths ever seen. Give the man his due

It was more of a dig at the "blown up welter comment"


Also, I would like to add why not say Marcel Cerdan(top 15 middleweight) was his greatest win? Lamotta floored cerdan in the first with a left hook then beat the shit out of him, then cerdan tried to get physical and lamottas strength caused cerdan to hurt his shoulder. then the next 9 rounds lamotta beat the shit out of a great middleweight some more. Once again, give the man his due. Marcel Cerdan is a great fighter.


I still would say the Robinson win would be better. I have already said Jake is a great fighter, but Stylistically he does not match up well with Hopkins.

[196osh]

Lamotta in his prime was not slow. He was quite quick. He was short, but he also had unbelievable strength, Concrete Chin, and Human Windmill like Stamina where he would never get tired in his prime. Lamotta was very adapt defensivley, slipping jabs very well

He did not have quick feet from what I have seen, he had average handspeed. He is at a handspeed disadvantage and not an insignificant one.

He was good at slipping jabs, indeed. Hopkins was never a fighter who built his game around throwing the jab. Hopkins would love a guy who he is faster than him going towards him constantly. I am not going to say LaMotta was unskilled or even had awful defence but it was not great. Hopkins would not find it hard to time him and with his defensive skill would not get hit clean very much at all.

[SuzieQ49]

Well just so you know, I pick Hopkins too. I just dont think it will be one sided.

[Canibus81]

Hopkins outboxes Lammotta the same way he did Pavlik, Trinidad, and Johnson.

[Bing]

Hopkins would win a Ud for me. No one at 160 makes easy work of a prime Lamotta though it wouldn't be one sided.

[teeto]

This isn't going to be a case of Hopkins being too clever for a come forward fighter, in fact it's far from it. But i feel he could win a decision and that's my pick.

[Sweet Pea]

Hopkin's nullifies everything LaMotta tries and beats him convincingly on points.

Mercy stoppage like the Johnson fight isn't out of the question, however.Yeah, it pretty much is.

I agree that Hopkins takes the decision, but it'd be a very competitive fight. LaMotta gets more underrated than overrated these days.

[Sweet Pea]

By the way, there's footage (albeit shaky) of a prime LaMotta against Joey DeJohn up on Youtube, finally. Again, not the best footage, but it shows the effectiveness of his style pretty well IMO. His upper-body movement is very underrated, as is his defense in general. He was good at parrying and rolling punches, as well as countering with the leverage gained from his head movement, mostly with the left hook. He also had a good, sneaky jab to go along with his already highly regarded body attack. When you take into account his strength and inhuman durability, you're left with a very difficult task for any MW to handle, despite his limitations.

[Canibus81]

By the way, there's footage (albeit shaky) of a prime LaMotta against Joey DeJohn up on Youtube, finally. Again, not the best footage, but it shows the effectiveness of his style pretty well IMO. His upper-body movement is very underrated, as is his defense in general. He was good at parrying and rolling punches, as well as countering with the leverage gained from his head movement, mostly with the left hook. He also had a good, sneaky jab to go along with his already highly regarded body attack. When you take into account his strength and inhuman durability, you're left with a very difficult task for any MW to handle, despite his limitations.

He's also(and I'ma include Ray Robinson in this too) never seen a complete masterful boxing tactcian like Hopkins either.

[Sweet Pea]

He's also(and I'ma include Ray Robinson in this too) never seen a complete masterful boxing tactcian like Hopkins either.

Next please.

[TheGreatA]

By the way, there's footage (albeit shaky) of a prime LaMotta against Joey DeJohn up on Youtube, finally. Again, not the best footage, but it shows the effectiveness of his style pretty well IMO. His upper-body movement is very underrated, as is his defense in general. He was good at parrying and rolling punches, as well as countering with the leverage gained from his head movement, mostly with the left hook. He also had a good, sneaky jab to go along with his already highly regarded body attack. When you take into account his strength and inhuman durability, you're left with a very difficult task for any MW to handle, despite his limitations.

I'd say that LaMotta peaked during 1943-1946 (before the Billy Fox fix) but the Joey DeJohn fight is as close as we will get to seeing a prime LaMotta.

Here's LaMotta vs Cerdan (more footage than the usual 1 minute hl):

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Here's a highlight I made of LaMotta's past prime fights:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[SuzieQ49]

Sweet Pea im so glad were in agreement of Lamotta

[SuzieQ49]

great footage of cerdan fight, lamotta before the injury is clearly beating the shit out of him and floors him with a left hook late as can be seen

[Sweet Pea]

Sweet Pea im so glad were in agreement of Lamotta
I've grown up and come around to a lot of the fighters we used to disagree on. Marciano is another I find myself defending more often than not these days.

[PowerPuncher]

Hopkins big wins came over blown up Welters....

As did Lamotta's - SRR ex LW/WW, Holman WIlliams ex LW, Cerdan ex WW

Hopkins picks Lamotta to pieces, 100times better defence, outboxes him, outspeeds him, out times him, not to mention greater reach/height, compact punching, landing flush shots time and again, while Lamotta is rendered completely ineffective as he misses and gets countered.

I don't see the case for Lamotta at all here, Hopkins is a class above him and there is no stylistic advantage for Lamotta. I think Lamotta's pressure and speed of attack wins him a few rounds but thats not a certainty when he's up against it stylistically. Lloyd Marshall said Lamotta couldn't beat the best black dynamite fighters, Hopkins had similar skills

[SuzieQ49]

Same with me Sweet Pea. You defintley opened up my eyes to certain fighters like Luis Rodriguez and Pernell Whitaker, and lots of others. Ike Williams is still my favorite lightweight though, tehe lol

[SuzieQ49]

Just because Lloyd Marshall said it doesnt mean anything. I mean Lamotta did beat Holman Williams and Bert Lytell and Sugar Ray Robinson who is better than all of black dynamite. Lloyd Marshall beat lamotta no worse than he beat charles and burley.

[Russell]

Yeah, it pretty much is.

I agree that Hopkins takes the decision, but it'd be a very competitive fight. LaMotta gets more underrated than overrated these days.

By a modern ref? You really think a modern ref wouldn't have stoppaged a slaughter the caliber of the St Valentines Day Massacre earlier?

If Hopkin's managed half of that caliber of beating a modern ref would more then likely stop it.

[dpw417]

Hopkins by close dec for me. Hopkins has the strength and ability to fight with him on the inside,but he would find the going very tough there. I like Hopkins to stay outside, and make LaMotta pursue...and he would relentlessly. I don't think Hopkins discourages LaMotta at all, but he lands the cleaner blows, taking a UD, in a good fight.

[PowerPuncher]

Just because Lloyd Marshall said it doesnt mean anything. I mean Lamotta did beat Holman Williams and Bert Lytell and Sugar Ray Robinson who is better than all of black dynamite. Lloyd Marshall beat lamotta no worse than he beat charles and burley.

It did seem Marshall didn't regard Lamotta as 1 of the better fighters he'd faced. Williams was old too and Lytell was very green, Williams was also undersized starting at LW himself. A 144lb Robinson would not have come out top against the MW Black Dynamite crew