My current P4P top 25.

[Amsterdam]

After review, I feel that this is a bit more realistic when taking resume, head to head and position at the moment:

1. Manny Pacquaio
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Cristian Mijares
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Ricky Hatton
7. Israel Vasquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Rafael Marquez
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Winky Wright
12. Mikkel Kessler
13. Jermain Taylor
14. Shane Mosely
15. Chad Dawson
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. Ivan Calderon
18. Nonito Donaire
19. Arthur Abraham
20. Paul Williams
21. Kelly Pavlik
22. Junior Witter
23. Juan Diaz
24. Sergey Dzinziruk
25. Jorge Linares

Here is my attempt, I feel that it will consistently changing up this year and in the near future.

[freethinker]

Hopkins is way too low!

[reed_man02]

I think Juan Diaz is way too low also.

[brooklyn1550]

Here's my attempt at the top 25

1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2. Manny Pacquiao
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Ricky Hatton
6. Israel Vazquez
7. Miguel Cotto
8. Joe Calzaghe
9. Winky Wright
10. Rafael Marquez
11. Marco Antonio Barrera
12. Jermain Taylor
13. Shane Mosley
14. Wladimir Klitschko
15. Mikkel Kessler
16. Ivan Calderon
17. Cristian Mijares
18. Joel Casamayor
19. Juan Diaz
20. Chad Dawson
21. Arthur Abraham
22. Paul Williams
23. Nonito Donaire
24. Kelly Pavlik
25. Vernon Forrest (Or) Cory Spinks

[Vantage_West]

I think Juan Diaz is way too low also.juan is a buam:good

he has fought nobodies and has won every belt which rightfully is the property of joel casamayor

nice guy but he is feather fisted for his style of boxing

[Executioner]

After review, I feel that this is a bit more realistic when taking resume, head to head and position at the moment:

1. Manny Pacquaio
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Cristian Mijares - WAY too friggin' high
4. Joe Calzaghe - Also WAY too high
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Ricky Hatton
7. Israel Vasquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Rafael Marquez
10. Bernard Hopkins - Too low
11. Winky Wright
12. Mikkel Kessler
13. Jermain Taylor - Too low also..WHYYYY is Kessler ahead of Taylor?
14. Shane Mosely
15. Chad Dawson
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. Ivan Calderon
18. Nonito Donaire
19. Arthur Abraham
20. Paul Williams
21. Kelly Pavlik
22. Junior Witter
23. Juan Diaz
24. Sergey Dzinziruk
25. Jorge Linares

Here is my attempt, I feel that it will consistently changing up this year and in the near future.

:deal

[Executioner]

juan is a buam:good

he has fought nobodies and has won every belt which rightfully is the property of joel casamayor

nice guy but he is feather fisted for his style of boxing

:-(

Juan is not a bum :lol: he's a very good fighter and so what if he's feather fisted? he has insane stamina, workrate, good body punching and he's got good skill.

[mike464]

After review, I feel that this is a bit more realistic when taking resume, head to head and position at the moment:

1. Manny Pacquaio
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Cristian Mijares
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Ricky Hatton
7. Israel Vasquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Rafael Marquez
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Winky Wright
12. Mikkel Kessler
13. Jermain Taylor
14. Shane Mosely
15. Chad Dawson
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. Ivan Calderon
18. Nonito Donaire
19. Arthur Abraham
20. Paul Williams
21. Kelly Pavlik
22. Junior Witter
23. Juan Diaz
24. Sergey Dzinziruk
25. Jorge Linares

Here is my attempt, I feel that it will consistently changing up this year and in the near future.I don't mind you putting Calzaghe in your top 25 but how the hell can you have him above Hopkins and Hatton?

[THN]

After review, I feel that this is a bit more realistic when taking resume, head to head and position at the moment:

1. Manny Pacquaio
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Cristian Mijares
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Ricky Hatton
7. Israel Vasquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Rafael Marquez
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Winky Wright
12. Mikkel Kessler
13. Jermain Taylor
14. Shane Mosely
15. Chad Dawson
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. Ivan Calderon
18. Nonito Donaire
19. Arthur Abraham
20. Paul Williams
21. Kelly Pavlik
22. Junior Witter
23. Juan Diaz
24. Sergey Dzinziruk
25. Jorge Linares

Here is my attempt, I feel that it will consistently changing up this year and in the near future.
:good for now after nov 3. you list will need some adjustment:yep

[Amsterdam]

:deal

Mijares is on spot, top 5 is where he should be, the way he brutally shut out Arce is a true signature win in the modern times. Calzaghe over Hatton for numerous reasons and Kessler over Taylor for consistency. Remember, H2H comes into the equation for my list as well and that's why Hopkins and Wright are lower, because I feel they are on their last legs.

Taylor H2H is not shit, he will not be competitive with top class big men who can punch, nothing like Kessler will be.

[Executioner]

Mijares is on spot, top 5 is where he should be, the way he brutally shut out Arce is a true signature win in the modern times. Calzaghe over Hatton for numerous reasons and Kessler over Taylor for consistency. Remember, H2H comes into the equation for my list as well and that's why Hopkins and Wright are lower, because I feel they are on their last legs.

Taylor H2H is not shit, he will not be competitive with top class big men who can punch, nothing like Kessler will be.

I understand now. I didn't know your list also was also based on H2H.

:thumbsup

[PrideOfWales]

I would also like to see G3E considered in everyone p4p list - that really makes for a realistic top 25.

[PowerPuncher]

NO CASAMOYA?!?!??!? Hes the Linear Champ at 135, beat Corrales. Got jobbed against Castillo/Freitas. Should be ahead of anyone named Diaz on a P4P list

[Amsterdam]

I understand now. I didn't know your list also was also based on H2H.

:thumbsup

It's why I also did not include Barrera and Casa, I feel they are almost finished off, you know?

The list is going to be changing, I can organise a better one in a few months that would be definitive for 2007.

[Executioner]

It's why I also did not include Barrera and Casa, I feel they are almost finished off, you know?

The list is going to be changing, I can organise a better one in a few months that would be definitive for 2007.

yeah I figured that's why you didn't include them. I wouldn't either.

[Marnoff]

Good list overall. My biggest issue would be Pacquaio in first slot. Floyd continues to dominate far above his prime weight class, meanwhile Pacquaio gets full credit for having a trilogy with a faded Morales and eeking out a draw against a man he knocked down three times in the first round. I just don't see how he leapfrogs Floyd with this.

On the other hand, with head to head included I suppose it is possible, as he does stack up well against most. Still, though, I see Floyd taking anyone near Welterweight.

[box03]

I hate wlad but he deserves a top ten spot he is extremely dominant in the heavywieght division

[achillesthegreat]

I can't agree with much of it. No substance to it. Fighters should be ranked on what they have done in the ring not what you think of them.

[Marnoff]

I hate wlad but he deserves a top ten spot he is extremely dominant in the heavywieght division

Very true. Considering the head to head parameters of this list, Klitschko could even be Top 5. I see him handling any of the heavyweights without great difficulty. His rematch with Peter is going to be very interesting, but other than that he doesn't have any real live threats in my opinion.

[Amsterdam]

I can't agree with much of it. No substance to it. Fighters should be ranked on what they have done in the ring not what you think of them.

I did a mix between resume and H2H. It sure as hell isn't some of the best fighters faults that they cannot get the 'right fights' sealed for them, especially in the case of a guy like Mijares.

I also judge on the 'quality' of the win.

[Amsterdam]

Good list overall. My biggest issue would be Pacquaio in first slot. Floyd continues to dominate far above his prime weight class, meanwhile Pacquaio gets full credit for having a trilogy with a faded Morales and eeking out a draw against a man he knocked down three times in the first round. I just don't see how he leapfrogs Floyd with this.

On the other hand, with head to head included I suppose it is possible, as he does stack up well against most. Still, though, I see Floyd taking anyone near Welterweight.

Floyd's dominated what at Welter though?

Baldo, Judah and then a part time DLH at 154. Let's wait and see what he does.

[VIP]

Chris John?

[KO Boxing]

Here's my attempt... slightly different.

P4P Top 10

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Ludacris to have it otherwise. No more to be said.

2. Manny Pacquiao

Hopkins does officially have those 2 losses to Taylor, so I believe Manny is undisputed no. 2. Hopefully he fights someone in his prime, and gets a clear win... Ala Juan Manuel Marquez, Guzman or Soto... Morales and Barrera have seen better days (but beautiful destructions)

3. Bernard Hopkins

Although I scored the first JT a draw, and the second a clear 115-113 win for Taylor - Emmanuel Stweard (JT's trainer) hit the nail on the head when he said that Hopkins proved in those two fights that he was the better fighter than Jermain, but he just let Jermain get out to too much of lead. He then moved up 2 divisions to beat the univierslaly recognised light heavyweight champ in dominating fashion, and just recenly beaten then p4p top 5 Winky Wright. So in some peoples minds, hes beaten Jermain Taylor twice, Tarver (after moving up) and Wright (a top 5 p4per) in his past 4 fights.

4. Juan Manuel Marquez

Despite it being close, great showing against the Great Barrera (who after beating Morales, the unified champ at 130, was the no. 1 man there). Has a draw with p4p no. 2 in a fight many feel that after being knocked down in the first round, he dominated the majority of the rounds following. Has since had a couple of bad showings, even losing to little known Chris John (although I personally had him winning, but still a close fight). The Barrera fights puts him back to where he should be after the John mistake.

5. Ricky Hatton

A guy usually ranked aboved Cotto and Mosely, I might add, just to stir the pot :hey

6. Joe Calzaghe

Will break into the top 5 if he beats Kessler, especially if Hatton loses to Mayweather as expected, breaking into top 5.

7. Israel Vasquez

An awesome fighter always at 122. Has a trilogy with Oscar Larios, getting up twice (including a first round KO). Had an awesome fight when he got up against then bantamweight king, Johnny Gonzalez. And even his win over Ivan Hernandez was special, consdering he got up against Too Sharp Johnson.

8. "Winky" Wright

A P4P top 5 loses to a fellow P4P 5 when moving up 10 pounds does NOT drop you out of the top ten. Especially when you have the skills, and resume, of Winky Wright. Clearly won of the best 10 pound for pounders in the world .

9. Jermain Taylor

Based on resume, should be rated highter. But a few controvesial decisions and recent poor showings have dropped him. A win over Pavlik will catapult him back to 5.

10. Rafael Marquez

Dominant bantamweight champion for years, moved up to knock out Vasquez in a barnburner. Lost in the rematch in another barnburner, but nearly head to head with Vasquez. 50/50 in the rubber match.

P4P 11-20

11. Miguel Cotto

Not sold on him being a top ten p4per just yet. Win over Moely and he's there.

12. Shane Mosely

A verteran fighter, with great skills, who isn't as passed it as you think. I'm tipping him over Cotto, although Cott's recent resume deserves a ranking ahead.

13. Mikkel Kessler

If he beats Calzaghe, he's a top tenner.

14. Ivan Calderon

Some of the best skills in the game, just in a division where you can't fight that good a names to warrant a higher ranking.

15. Joan Guzman

One of the most talented fighers in the world, holds good wins at super bantam, feather, and superfeather. A win over Soto and he'll move up further.

16. Paul Williams

Based on his stylistic challenged to ANY welter in the world, I believe Williams is being SLIGHTLY overrated at the moment. His defence alone makes him beatable (some make him out to be unbeateable).

17. Cory Spinks

A helluva fighter. Still reckon he's the best 154 pounder, and some argue actually outboxed Jermain in their "fight", if thats what you want to call it.

18. Oscar D Hoya

Fought a great fight against the p4p no. 1, despite losing. Still has skills (and now expierence and savy) that rival any of the top fighters, and if he's serious about being a welter, would provide any of the champs with a tough challenge.

19. Marco A Barrera

Despite a loss to p4p no. 2 Manny Paquio and a very close loss to p4p no. 4, no way. Barrera doesdeserve a metnion on this list. He's a heavy underdog against Manny, but as live as they come. A miracle win over Manny would see him catapult back up into the top 10 (probably 5).

20. Juan Diaz

Needs the other Diaz and Casamayor to really start being considered top 10-15. Deserves to crack top 20 though.

P4P 20-25

21. Joel Casamayor

Arguably undefeated, great skills, although past his prime. Deserves a shot at Diaz to ultimately prove who is no. 1.

22. Chad Dawson

Potential to be a future p4p star, already holds a dominating win over Adameck, who at the time was probably the no. 1 lightheavyweight, Harding, and Gardner.

23. Kelly Pavlik

His win over Miranda is a lot better, and holds just as solid wins (which are nothing great) in the middleweight division as Abraham. So despite Abraham holding the IBF title, titles mean nothing, and Pavlik is p4p better imo. Still only a prospect nontheless, hence his rating. Although with a huge fight coming up against a top ten p4per, if he wins, chances are he's there too.

24. Christian Mijares

No doubt a great showing against Arce, but I always new Arce was ripe for the "outboxing". Mijares just got to him first... Hopefully he gets bigger fights as a result, and we can gauge how good he really is.

25. Chris John

Have him rated above Linares at the moment at featheweright . To me, he is clearly the no. 1 feathereweight in the world, despite his close win over JMM being controversial. It was a win nonetheless in a close fight, against a guy who is now p4p no. 4. John, I reckon, is slightly underrated.We haven't heard the last of him.

[brooklyn1550]

Chris John?

Dammit - how could I forget John? He's deserves top 20 recognition

[China_hand_Joe]

After review, I feel that this is a bit more realistic when taking resume, head to head and position at the moment:

1. Manny Pacquaio
2. Floyd Mayweather
3. Cristian Mijares
4. Joe Calzaghe
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Ricky Hatton
7. Israel Vasquez
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Rafael Marquez
10. Bernard Hopkins
11. Winky Wright
12. Mikkel Kessler
13. Jermain Taylor
14. Shane Mosely
15. Chad Dawson
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. Ivan Calderon
18. Nonito Donaire
19. Arthur Abraham
20. Paul Williams
21. Kelly Pavlik
22. Junior Witter
23. Juan Diaz
24. Sergey Dzinziruk
25. Jorge Linares

Here is my attempt, I feel that it will consistently changing up this year and in the near future.You cannot justify placing Hopkins so high.

[KO Boxing]

You cannot justify placing Hopkins so high.
Or Calzaghe so high. But everyone has their own opinions.

[Mind Reader]

Im not a Mayweather fan, but a list that doesnt have him number one, makes me have doubts on the rest.

[Mind Reader]

Here's my attempt... slightly different.

P4P Top 10

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Ludacris to have it otherwise. No more to be said.

2. Manny Pacquiao

Hopkins does officially have those 2 losses to Taylor, so I believe Manny is undisputed no. 2. Hopefully he fights someone in his prime, and gets a clear win... Ala Juan Manuel Marquez, Guzman or Soto... Morales and Barrera have seen better days (but beautiful destructions)

3. Bernard Hopkins

Although I scored the first JT a draw, and the second a clear 115-113 win for Taylor - Emmanuel Stweard (JT's trainer) hit the nail on the head when he said that Hopkins proved in those two fights that he was the better fighter than Jermain, but he just let Jermain get out to too much of lead. He then moved up 2 divisions to beat the univierslaly recognised light heavyweight champ in dominating fashion, and just recenly beaten then p4p top 5 Winky Wright. So in some peoples minds, hes beaten Jermain Taylor twice, Tarver (after moving up) and Wright (a top 5 p4per) in his past 4 fights.

4. Juan Manuel Marquez

Despite it being close, great showing against the Great Barrera (who after beating Morales, the unified champ at 130, was the no. 1 man there). Has a draw with p4p no. 2 in a fight many feel that after being knocked down in the first round, he dominated the majority of the rounds following. Has since had a couple of bad showings, even losing to little known Chris John (although I personally had him winning, but still a close fight). The Barrera fights puts him back to where he should be after the John mistake.

5. Ricky Hatton

A guy usually ranked aboved Cotto and Mosely, I might add, just to stir the pot :hey

6. Joe Calzaghe

Will break into the top 5 if he beats Kessler, especially if Hatton loses to Mayweather as expected, breaking into top 5.

7. Israel Vasquez

An awesome fighter always at 122. Has a trilogy with Oscar Larios, getting up twice (including a first round KO). Had an awesome fight when he got up against then bantamweight king, Johnny Gonzalez. And even his win over Ivan Hernandez was special, consdering he got up against Too Sharp Johnson.

8. "Winky" Wright

A P4P top 5 loses to a fellow P4P 5 when moving up 10 pounds does NOT drop you out of the top ten. Especially when you have the skills, and resume, of Winky Wright. Clearly won of the best 10 pound for pounders in the world .

9. Jermain Taylor

Based on resume, should be rated highter. But a few controvesial decisions and recent poor showings have dropped him. A win over Pavlik will catapult him back to 5.

10. Rafael Marquez

Dominant bantamweight champion for years, moved up to knock out Vasquez in a barnburner. Lost in the rematch in another barnburner, but nearly head to head with Vasquez. 50/50 in the rubber match.

P4P 11-20

11. Miguel Cotto

Not sold on him being a top ten p4per just yet. Win over Moely and he's there.

12. Shane Mosely

A verteran fighter, with great skills, who isn't as passed it as you think. I'm tipping him over Cotto, although Cott's recent resume deserves a ranking ahead.

13. Mikkel Kessler

If he beats Calzaghe, he's a top tenner.

14. Ivan Calderon

Some of the best skills in the game, just in a division where you can't fight that good a names to warrant a higher ranking.

15. Joan Guzman

One of the most talented fighers in the world, holds good wins at super bantam, feather, and superfeather. A win over Soto and he'll move up further.

16. Paul Williams

Based on his stylistic challenged to ANY welter in the world, I believe Williams is being SLIGHTLY overrated at the moment. His defence alone makes him beatable (some make him out to be unbeateable).

17. Cory Spinks

A helluva fighter. Still reckon he's the best 154 pounder, and some argue actually outboxed Jermain in their "fight", if thats what you want to call it.

18. Oscar D Hoya

Fought a great fight against the p4p no. 1, despite losing. Still has skills (and now expierence and savy) that rival any of the top fighters, and if he's serious about being a welter, would provide any of the champs with a tough challenge.

19. Marco A Barrera

Despite a loss to p4p no. 2 Manny Paquio and a very close loss to p4p no. 4, no way. Barrera doesdeserve a metnion on this list. He's a heavy underdog against Manny, but as live as they come. A miracle win over Manny would see him catapult back up into the top 10 (probably 5).

20. Juan Diaz

Needs the other Diaz and Casamayor to really start being considered top 10-15. Deserves to crack top 20 though.

P4P 20-25

21. Joel Casamayor

Arguably undefeated, great skills, although past his prime. Deserves a shot at Diaz to ultimately prove who is no. 1.

22. Chad Dawson

Potential to be a future p4p star, already holds a dominating win over Adameck, who at the time was probably the no. 1 lightheavyweight, Harding, and Gardner.

23. Kelly Pavlik

His win over Miranda is a lot better, and holds just as solid wins (which are nothing great) in the middleweight division as Abraham. So despite Abraham holding the IBF title, titles mean nothing, and Pavlik is p4p better imo. Still only a prospect nontheless, hence his rating. Although with a huge fight coming up against a top ten p4per, if he wins, chances are he's there too.

24. Christian Mijares

No doubt a great showing against Arce, but I always new Arce was ripe for the "outboxing". Mijares just got to him first... Hopefully he gets bigger fights as a result, and we can gauge how good he really is.

25. Chris John

Have him rated above Linares at the moment at featheweright . To me, he is clearly the no. 1 feathereweight in the world, despite his close win over JMM being controversial. It was a win nonetheless in a close fight, against a guy who is now p4p no. 4. John, I reckon, is slightly underrated.We haven't heard the last of him.

I like your list alot.... and the explanations, good job bro.:good

[Lance_Uppercut]

I can't agree with much of it. No substance to it. Fighters should be ranked on what they have done in the ring not what you think of them.

I totally agree. Ranking head to head is WAY too easy to invlove a personal irrational bias general dislike of a fighter, no matter HOW much one tries to say they are unbiased. Results and strength of schedule are the only ways to go.

[henrik]

I totally agree. Ranking head to head is WAY too easy to invlove a personal irrational bias general dislike of a fighter, no matter HOW much one tries to say they are unbiased. Results and strength of schedule are the only ways to go.

just my words...i think a lot of the fighters that are on your lists,would be on a p4p list....but i don´t think we would agree on them all.

[anderslundgaard]

What does H2H mean?

[ozziebattler]

I don't mind you putting Calzaghe in your top 25 but how the hell can you have him above Hopkins and Hatton?

Because he is sitting on joes lap...

[KO Boxing]

What does H2H mean?
I'm guessing Head to Head

[mike464]

18. Oscar D Hoya

Fought a great fight against the p4p no. 1, despite losing. Still has skills (and now expierence and savy) that rival any of the top fighters, and if he's serious about being a welter, would provide any of the champs with a tough challenge.De La Hoya has lost 4 of his last 5 fights. No way should he be in the top 25. Above Barrera? That's crazy.

[KO Boxing]

De La Hoya has lost 4 of his last 5 fights. No way should he be in the top 25. Above Barrera? That's crazy.
That's very fair. Any list can really move fighters either up and down a few spots. Its all quite subjective... Although Floyd is universally number 1, and despite Oscar having a number of advantages, he did give him a good fight. But yeah, I won't argue with you. That was just my pick. I still personally have him SOMEWHERE in the 25 still. He'd be a threat against any of the top welters if he's telling the truth about moving down.

[achillesthegreat]

I did a mix between resume and H2H. It sure as hell isn't some of the best fighters faults that they cannot get the 'right fights' sealed for them, especially in the case of a guy like Mijares.

I also judge on the 'quality' of the win.
Fighters sort out their issues in the ring. They can fight their way into the place they want to be.

[Amsterdam]

Fighters sort out their issues in the ring. They can fight their way into the place they want to be.

The point of P4P is to project who would be the most dominant if everyone was the same size, that is the original point. I applied resume because Pac's resume is deeper than Floyd's, but I also did head to head.

It was a 50/50 mix. P4P should not just be resume(because Hopkins beat a P4P in Wright, who is not a true challenge at this point for the bigger men that Hopkins is classed with, Hopkins will fight within a circle of 'name' opponents), because Hopkins would not beat any young, fresh top LHW at the moment and especially not Cristian Mijares if he were a 175 pounder. The smaller guys get underrated all the time.

[Stewbear]

I dont understand how Calzaghe can be above Hatton:huh
This is only possible if you think he is better, but Hatton has the far better resume so...

[Amsterdam]

I dont understand how Calzaghe can be above Hatton:huh
This is only possible if you think he is better, but Hatton has the far better resume so...

I disagree that he has a better resume, but that's fine, then the H2H comes into play. Calzaghe can jump up and easily beat anyone at LHW, Hatton couldn't do this at WW and is about to be served a brutal stoppage loss to Floyd.

[achillesthegreat]

The point of P4P is to project who would be the most dominant if everyone was the same size, that is the original point. I applied resume because Pac's resume is deeper than Floyd's, but I also did head to head.

It was a 50/50 mix. P4P should not just be resume(because Hopkins beat a P4P in Wright, who is not a true challenge at this point for the bigger men that Hopkins is classed with, Hopkins will fight within a circle of 'name' opponents), because Hopkins would not beat any young, fresh top LHW at the moment and especially not Cristian Mijares if he were a 175 pounder. The smaller guys get underrated all the time.
If they were all the same size - who would be the best? Thats the question right.

The best way to justify the answer is by seeing what the fighter achieves in the ring.

Many fans include H2H but I don't. If the person is as good as you THINK he is then eventually he will PROVE IT in the ring.

For example Cotto does not belong in any ones top 10. He has done NOTHING to suggest he should be. He LOOKS like he is elite but it doesn't mean he IS!

While you THINK P4P Mijares is better than X, X is beating P4P fighters like Tarver and Wright.

[Amsterdam]

If they were all the same size - who would be the best? Thats the question right.

The best way to justify the answer is by seeing what the fighter achieves in the ring.


I agree, by proving 'who' they beat. This does not necessarily mean the fighter that they prove themselves against are a member of the fabricated P4P circles that tend to block everyone else from getting a chance for mainly economic reasons, it's an awful cycle.


Many fans include H2H but I don't. If the person is as good as you THINK he is then eventually he will PROVE IT in the ring.

For example Cotto does not belong in any ones top 10. He has done NOTHING to suggest he should be. He LOOKS like he is elite but it doesn't mean he IS!


And most intelligent analysts can at least project with some measure of accuracy who is for real and who is too flawed to be a serious elite factor. I do this all the time, consistently battling with ignorant fanboys and others alike.


While you THINK P4P Mijares is better than X, X is beating P4P fighters like Tarver and Wright.


Mijarez smoked Arce in a beautiful, brutal one sided fashion, he is currently being heavily avoided because he'd do the same to the rest of division, but his 12 round destruction of Arce has him ranked number 1 in the division, as Arce was number 1. In this bout, he showed all the tools necessary to be dominant champion - skill, heart, chin, speed, stamina and the ability to beat a guy at his own game when Arce was able to press and have a little success in the midrounds. You could maybe give Arce 1 round, but Mijares closed by brutalising him to the point where 11 and 12 should have been 10-8's for Mijares.

Do you think that X defeating Tarver, who again was ranked the highest for the ability to fight with set money making circles and avoid the younger challenges, such as Paul Briggs and Tarver who showed that at the moment he's not far above journeyman level... and then a Winky Wright who is 35 years, a big name an a P4P name of course, but a natural LMW and looked TERRIBLE at 170 in every form even in the weigh in and before the fight happened... compares to what Mijarez did when he smoked Jorge Arce?

I personally don't. The level of fighting ability between Mijares and Hopkins AT THIS POINT is what you'd call 'night and day'. Winky and Hopkins are old and they are getting near the ends of their respective careers, if you wish to be blind and think that both of them are still true P4P fighters, when they are the types that at the moment cash out in 'big name circles', then go ahead, I'm looking a little deeper within this sport.

[China_hand_Joe]

What I find funny is how Hopkins 1-0-2 in the Wright, Taylor, Hopkins love triangle ends up being rated the highest.

[Amsterdam]

What I find funny is how Hopkins 1-0-2 in the Wright, Taylor, Hopkins love triangle ends up being rated the highest.

This is precisely what I am getting at Enzo. When Pavlik smokes Taylor, he won't be rated P4P, because Taylor will just get exposed there, but Winky drawing with Taylor does well for his rating.:lol:

If Hopkins were to have comeback and lost to a guy like Erdei, then Hopkins is just old and Erdei's not P4P rated, but if Winky were to have gotten the decision over Hopkins, he'd have jumped up. Likewise in the reversal and anyway you can spin this stuff.

These guys, save for the younger Taylor, are just going to fight 'names' that they can beat but that have a set legacy, no matter where they are truly at physically and they will not be getting in the ring with any true nasty threats. Wright won't be fighting Abraham for example, but since Wright is still in the P4P list for most, if Abraham did KO him, Abraham would not be P4P ranked because even though Wright is STILL ranked top 10, he would then be 'old', as if he wasn't already with that piss performance that Hopkins and Wright gave us.

I am so tired of the above. This type of logic needs to be reworked.

[Alo2006]

juan is a buam:good

he has fought nobodies and has won every belt which rightfully is the property of joel casamayor

nice guy but he is feather fisted for his style of boxing

:-( if u really think Diaz is a bum.

[China_hand_Joe]

This is precisely what I am getting at Enzo. When Pavlik smokes Taylor, he won't be rated P4P, because Taylor will just get exposed there, but Winky drawing with Taylor does well for his rating.:lol:

If Hopkins were to have comeback and lost to a guy like Erdei, then Hopkins is just old and Erdei's not P4P rated, but if Winky were to have gotten the decision over Hopkins, he'd have jumped up. Likewise in the reversal and anyway you can spin this stuff.

These guys, save for the younger Taylor, are just going to fight 'names' that they can beat but that have a set legacy, no matter where they are truly at physically and they will not be getting in the ring with any true nasty threats. Wright won't be fighting Abraham for example, but since Wright is still in the P4P list for most, if Abraham did KO him, Abraham would not be P4P ranked because even though Wright is STILL ranked top 10, he would then be 'old', as if he wasn't already with that piss performance that Hopkins and Wright gave us.

I am so tired of the above. This type of logic needs to be reworked.They aren't really much better than someone like Spinks now.

And Pavlik is shocking too, he is the kind of fighter Calzagthe used to demolish back around 2000 without breaking sweat.