Oscars resume

[kaygb]

In Oscars resume:

When he stepped up and fought the very best, the elite, he lost.
0 and 5 against them.
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!
In 90% of his wins he was the heavier fighter with his opponents stepping up in weight class.
Some of his titles are somewhat bogus ... WBO against Bredhal and the midget Paez.
A relative unknown fighter who was barely top 10 if at all, Sturm, took Oscar to school exposing Oscar as having very little defense against the jab.
Went down from a body tap from Hopkins and stayed down that will always be questioned.
Has always had a problem going the distance, gassing out after 8 or 9 rounds.
Had a brilliant manager in Arum who very carefully handpicked oponents in his earlier career, fighting fighters who were on the down side of their careers or Tito's leftovers.
Had a great career against B and C rated fighters but could not win or dominate the elite class A guys.
ATG ..... No. Very good fighter .... yes.

[DoumB]

Nice try again Jack

[THN]

A great figther allways going for big figths.

[2smart4u]

In Oscars resume:

When he stepped up and fought the very best, the elite, he lost.
0 and 5 against them.
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!
In 90% of his wins he was the heavier fighter with his opponents stepping up in weight class.
Some of his titles are somewhat bogus ... WBO against Bredhal and the midget Paez.
A relative unknown fighter who was barely top 10 if at all, Sturm, took Oscar to school exposing Oscar as having very little defense against the jab.
Went down from a body tap from Hopkins and stayed down that will always be questioned.
Has always had a problem going the distance, gassing out after 8 or 9 rounds.
Had a brilliant manager in Arum who very carefully handpicked oponents in his earlier career, fighting fighters who were on the down side of their careers or Tito's leftovers.
Had a great career against B and C rated fighters but could not win or dominate the elite class A guys.
ATG ..... No. Very good fighter .... yes.:deal I could never understand OSCARS popularity !

[Thread Stealer]

Would you really call a Mosley rematch at 154 a "step-up"?

Sure Mosley won the first fight, but that was 3 years earlier, and Mosley hadn't won a fight in 2 years and it was just his 2nd bout @ 154.

I'm not sure if that's any more of a "step-up" than fighters like Whitaker, Quartey, or maybe even Vargas at the time.

And while calling his fights with Whitaker and especially Quartey are questionable, so are his losses to Mosley in the rematch and especially Trinidad.

[lefthook31]

In Oscars resume:

When he stepped up and fought the very best, the elite, he lost.
0 and 5 against them.
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!
In 90% of his wins he was the heavier fighter with his opponents stepping up in weight class.
Some of his titles are somewhat bogus ... WBO against Bredhal and the midget Paez.
A relative unknown fighter who was barely top 10 if at all, Sturm, took Oscar to school exposing Oscar as having very little defense against the jab.
Went down from a body tap from Hopkins and stayed down that will always be questioned.
Has always had a problem going the distance, gassing out after 8 or 9 rounds.
Had a brilliant manager in Arum who very carefully handpicked oponents in his earlier career, fighting fighters who were on the down side of their careers or Tito's leftovers.
Had a great career against B and C rated fighters but could not win or dominate the elite class A guys.
ATG ..... No. Very good fighter .... yes.

I think your being a little too rough on Oscar. How many fighters, with his stature went out looked to make the toughest fights he did. I would say he beat Trinidad, who would represent his best win. The other losses were close with exception of Hopkins and Floyd in my opinion. I think Oscar has had a great career with a lot of good exciting fights. Really hes been a one handed fighter for the most part of his career, but yes, when he matched up against what the consensus views as other great fighters, he lost.

[4Rounder]

In Oscars resume:
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!

WTF are you talking about JackASS Presscott?

DLH unified with Vargas at 154lbs, he won the WBC belt from Castillejo and unified it with the WBA belt.

[Thread Stealer]

WTF are you talking about JackASS Presscott?

DLH unified with Vargas at 154lbs, he won the WBC belt from Castillejo and unified it with the WBA belt.

He means fully unified.

DLH-Quartey would've been a WBA/WBC unification, but the WBA apparently thought fighting Oscar was a good reason to strip him instead of fighting a mandatory. Who was it, James "Pound for Pound the Best" Page (thanks Big George)?

Of course, the good ole' WBA decided next year that Lennox Lewis should be stripped for fighting Michael Grant instead of John Ruiz.

[Thread Stealer]

Who Trinidad?



:yep


If your going on official records, Chavez, Whitaker, Quartey were all rated p4p top 10 when he beat them. If you're going to argue the outcomes of those fights, then he arguably beat Trinidad and Mosley who were both top 10 p4p, and some had him beating Mayweather at 34 years old, and he really has only had 2 crystal clear losses to Hopkins and Mosley. Either way he is not 0-5. he is 3-5 officially (hearns and duran went somthing like that). If you take away his Chavez and Whitaker wins for them being old then ring ratings mean nothing. Fact is the guy proved to be on the same level, if not a bit higher, as his greatest comtemporaries, so if you include mosley and trinidad as ATG's you can't exclude Oscar.

Quartey was maybe deserving of being top 10 p4p, but he wasn't ranked in the magazines in the top 10 at the time. KO magazine didn't have Chavez in the top 10 in the months preceding the first fight with Oscar, but he was toward the bottom of the top ten in The Ring's annual year-end poll for 1995. Don't know exactly what the Ring magazine had him at that point though. Mosley wasn't ranked in the top 10 in the rematch. He had left it after his two straight losses to Forrest, and then the no-contest against Marquez. I remember looking it up in The Ring and Mosley wasn't in it. I think it was the issue with Oscar on the cover, "Oscar at 30".

[hitman_hatton1]

so if you include mosley and trinidad as ATG's you can't exclude Oscar.

yep. :yep

[Thread Stealer]

I remember that. quartey was also jobbed the fight before with the Jose Luis lopez draw. Everyone knew Hoya-Quartey was a battle between 2 of the top 3 welterweights

Quartey doesn't have good luck with the judges. He jabs the shit out of Lopez and gets a draw. Lopez did not win 5 rounds. Quartey fights a very close one with Oscar, but the judges were so off, that Ike could've won the 12th and still not won the fight. Then those scorecards with Forrest were out there too.

[hitman_hatton1]

Quartey doesn't have good luck with the judges. He jabs the shit out of Lopez and gets a draw. Lopez did not win 5 rounds. Quartey fights a very close one with Oscar, but the judges were so off, that Ike could've won the 12th and still not won the fight. Then those scorecards with Forrest were out there too.

it was a split decision.

that fairly reflected the fact it was close. :hey

[Thread Stealer]

it was a split decision.

that fairly reflected the fact it was close. :hey

Yeah, but the judges were so bad that Quartey could've won the 12th and not won the fight. There is no way that any logical, objective scorer could have Oscar winning the fight going into round 12.

But really, what do you expect from Ken Morita?

[Thread Stealer]

you're probably right with chavez, but quartey must've been top 10 atleast. I'm sure I remember seeing him in the KO 100 96 issue around 8-9 (i remember tyson was 10 lol), ring would've been about the same. what happened did they drop him out after the BS lopez draw? i know he didn't fight for like a year after that, maybe that had something to do with it. and they dropped mosley like that? i was estimating he would've been in the lower half since he was p4p#1 (or atleast top 3) before the forrest fights

I've looked at some issues in KO around that time period and didn't see Quartey in the top 10 p4p. I remember it because it surprised me that he actually wasn't there. The Ring year-end poll is a little different from their own rankings since it's a poll, but usually they don't stray much at all. Here's their list up to 2001.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Mosley wasn't in the top 10 in mid-2003, but they put him at #3 after the rematch with Oscar. I thought that was too big of a jump for a controverisal decision in which he didn't really look all too good.

[41fever]

Quartey doesn't have good luck with the judges. He jabs the shit out of Lopez and gets a draw. Lopez did not win 5 rounds. Quartey fights a very close one with Oscar, but the judges were so off, that Ike could've won the 12th and still not won the fight. Then those scorecards with Forrest were out there too.totally agree.

[box4ever]

I remember kaygb from other message boards a few years back, maybe 2003 when I got into boxing. The guy would only post to bash delahoya. I also remember some other guy named mikeraven, something like that. I used think these two were the same guy because they would constantly talk about delahoya. Now I see this Jack guy that post a lot about delahoya. I usually go into message boards to read other boxing fans opinions and their perspective about certain boxers and matchups but never have I seen so much hatred towards delahoya.

[KO Boxing]

Not talking ATG, wins or loses, but just resume...

Floyd Mayweather - p4p best
Ricado Mayorga - WBC lightmiddleweight champ
Bernard Hopkins - undisputed middleweight champ w/ record defences. p4p 2
Felix Sturm - WBO middleweight champ
Shane Mosely - Avenement of a prior legitmate defeat
Yori Boy Campas
Fernando Vargas - unification of 154
Javier Castillego- WBC light middleweight champ
Arturo Gatti
Shane Mosely - WBC welterweight title
Derell Corely
Felix Trinidad - Welterweight unification

This is his last 12 fights. 7 of which were mega fights. The 3 in bold were against average fighters, but champions nonetheless, or gatti, who was still a name in himself (and a decent comback after a loss in terms of ppv figures). The 2 in italics were nobody's and can be written off (but all fighters have "tune-ups", so they can be forgiven).

Now granted he's only gone 7-5 out of these 12 fights, and possibly should be 6-6 (if you give the Sturm fight to Sturm). Although just as much a case can be made for a robbery in Mosely-Dela Hoya 2 (which I personally don't agree with)... thus making it 7-5, again.

All in all, whether or not he's an all time great, the man has fought the very best fighters of his era. And has been competitive in them all. And in some instances, gave entertaining fights.

But a 7-5, plus controversial wins over Whittaker and Quartey, and it is hard to say that he is an ATG (but what exactly IS an ATG? I've yet to be explained).

[PJD3]

94' Jimmi Bredahl KO 10 (Wins IBO Super Featherweight Title Defends it Once)
Jorge Paez KO 2 (Wins IBO Lightweight Title and Defneds it 6 Times)

95' John-John Molina W 12
Rafeal Ruelas KO 2 (Wins and Unfies IBF and WBO Lightweight Title)
Gernado Hernadez KO 6 (Defends WBO Lightweight Title)
Jesse James Lejia KO 2 (Defends WBO Lightweight Title)

96' Julio Cesar Chavez KO 4 (Wins WBC Super Lightweight Title)

97' Miguel Angel Gonzales W 12 (Retains WBC Super Lightweight Title)*Undefeated
Pernall Sweet Pea Whitaker W 12 (Wins WBC Welterweight Title and Defends it 8 Times)
Hector Macho Camacho W 12 (Retains WBC Welterweight Title)
Wilfredo Rivera KO 8 (Retains WBC Welterweight Title)

98' Julio Cesar Chavez KO 8 (Defends WBC Welterweight Title)

99' Ike Bazooka Qaurtey W 12 (Defends WBC Welterweight title) *Undefaeted

O'Barr MotorCity Carr KO 11 (Defends WBC Welterweight)
Felix Tito Tranidad L 12 (WBC/ IBF Highly Controvesral Lost) *Undefeated

00' Sugar Shane Mosley L 12 (Very Close Competive Fight) *Undefeated

01' Arturo Gatti KO 6
Francscio Castillejo W 12 (Wins WBC Jr. Middelweight Title and Defends it 3 Times)
Franscio had not lost a fight in almost 5 years

02' Fernado El' Feroz Vargas KO 11(Wins and Unifies WBC/ WBA/ IBA Titles Defending Twice)

03' Luis Yory Boy Campas KO 7 (Retains WBC and WBA Titles)
Sugar Shane Mosley L 12 (Highly Controversal Loss)

04' Felix Strum W 12 (Wins WBO MiddleWeight Title)* Undefeated
Benard The Executioner Hopkins KO by 9 (For Undisputed World Middle Weight Title)


05' Richardo El' Matador Mayorga KO 6 (Wins WBC Jr. Middle Weight Title)

06'

Won Gold in 92' at Barcelona Olympics
Started at Superfeather Weight and won titles in 6 weight classes from Superfeather to Middle.
Fought 7 undeated champions defeating 5 of them.
Fought 7 P4P ranked fighters.
Faced 21 Champions
Was never dominated, always was in the fight.
Sought Out Only the Biggest, and Best Competion
So Very Few Choose to try.

A teacher once told me if you haven't lost you not facing the right challanges.

[KO Boxing]

94' Jimmi Bredahl KO 10 (Wins IBO Super Featherweight Title Defends it Once)
Jorge Paez KO 2 (Wins IBO Lightweight Title and Defneds it 6 Times)

95' John-John Molina W
Rafeal Ruelas KO 2 (Wins and Unfies IBF and WBO Lightweight Title)
Gernado Hernadez KO 6
Jesse James Lejia KO 2

96' Julio Cesar Chavez KO 4 (Wins WBC Super Lightweight Title)

97' Miguel Angel Gonzales W 12 (Retains WBC Super Lightweight Title)
Pernall Sweet Pea Whitaker W 12 (Wins WBC Welterweight Title and Defends it 8 Times) (Highly Controversial Win)
Hector Macho Camacho W 12 (Retains WBC Welterweight Title)
Wilfredo Rivera KO 8 (Retains WBC Welterweight Title)

98' Julio Cesar Chavez KO 8

99' Ike Bazooka Qaurtey W 12 (Highly Controversial Win)
O'Barr MotorCity Carr KO 11
Felix Tito Tranidad L 12 (Slightly Controvesral Lost)

00' Sugar Shane Mosley L 12 (Very Close Competive Fight BUT CLEAR LOSS)

01' Arturo Gatti KO 6
Francscio Castillejo W 12 (Wins WBC Jr. Middelweight Title and Defends it 3 Times)

02' Fernado El' Feroz Vargas KO 11(Wins and Unifies WBC/ WBA Titles Defending Twice)

03' Loise Yory Boy Campas KO 7 (Retains WBC and WBA Titles)
Sugar Shane Mosley L 12 (Slightly Controversal Loss)

04' Felix Strum W 12 (Wins WBO

04' Bernard Hopkins KTFO Oscar (loses WBOgus)

That looks about right :good

[IrnBruMan]

Hey, if we're going by official results here, an old DLH only lost by SD to apparently the P4P #1 fighter today.

Not bad for a 'good, not great fighter' :hey

[KO Boxing]

Hey, if we're going by official results here, an old DLH only lost by SD to apparently the P4P #1 fighter today.

Not bad for a 'good, not great fighter' :hey
Yeah, and Shane only beat Oscar by SD in the first fight... Mayweather clearly should have won a UD.

But true nonetheless. Dela Hoya gave the best fighter in the world in his prime a good fight while out of his prime. Not bad for a good but not great fighter

[Hitman]

A great figther allways going for big figths.

Touche!

[martin0792]

In Oscars resume:

When he stepped up and fought the very best, the elite, he lost.
0 and 5 against them.
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!
In 90% of his wins he was the heavier fighter with his opponents stepping up in weight class.
Some of his titles are somewhat bogus ... WBO against Bredhal and the midget Paez.
A relative unknown fighter who was barely top 10 if at all, Sturm, took Oscar to school exposing Oscar as having very little defense against the jab.
Went down from a body tap from Hopkins and stayed down that will always be questioned.
Has always had a problem going the distance, gassing out after 8 or 9 rounds.
Had a brilliant manager in Arum who very carefully handpicked oponents in his earlier career, fighting fighters who were on the down side of their careers or Tito's leftovers.
Had a great career against B and C rated fighters but could not win or dominate the elite class A guys.
ATG ..... No. Very good fighter .... yes.

You seriously do not know what you are talking about.

[eliqueiros]

Oscar's resume is so deep there is no real way to head into this argument without needing to be here for several pages. With that said, you're full of crap.

[Bazooka]

In Oscars resume:

When he stepped up and fought the very best, the elite, he lost.
0 and 5 against them.
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!
In 90% of his wins he was the heavier fighter with his opponents stepping up in weight class.
Some of his titles are somewhat bogus ... WBO against Bredhal and the midget Paez.
A relative unknown fighter who was barely top 10 if at all, Sturm, took Oscar to school exposing Oscar as having very little defense against the jab.
Went down from a body tap from Hopkins and stayed down that will always be questioned.
Has always had a problem going the distance, gassing out after 8 or 9 rounds.
Had a brilliant manager in Arum who very carefully handpicked oponents in his earlier career, fighting fighters who were on the down side of their careers or Tito's leftovers.
Had a great career against B and C rated fighters but could not win or dominate the elite class A guys.
ATG ..... No. Very good fighter .... yes.

This is exactly why Mayweather retired, he didnt want to end up 0-5 against the elite so he took the easiest way out, DLH on the other hand showed heart and heard the people and gave them what they wanted, so knock the man cus he took risk he will be more respected and is more respected than Floyd.

[Pimp C]

This is exactly why Mayweather retired, he didnt want to end up 0-5 against the elite so he took the easiest way out, DLH on the other hand showed heart and heard the people and gave them what they wanted, so knock the man cus he took risk he will be more respected and is more respected than Floyd.
Hmmm maybe maybe not but one thing is for sure he'll always be 0-1 against him and PBF will have a better ranking on the ATG list as well.:deal

[eliqueiros]

This is exactly why Mayweather retired, he didnt want to end up 0-5 against the elite so he took the easiest way out, DLH on the other hand showed heart and heard the people and gave them what they wanted, so knock the man cus he took risk he will be more respected and is more respected than Floyd.

I agree. And the people he lost to have their share of losses as well, some just as many (Mosley) and one who faced his knock out loss to the same man to knock out Hoya (Trinidad). Only Mayweather avoided this the moment he saw the man he was to have a rematch with had his proper trainer back and was fighting the way he is made to fight. Possible loss to Hoya/possible loss to Cotto/ possible loss to Margo, all of them might deepened if bruised Mayweather's resume. Avoiding the loss makes your resume empty not better.

[Pimp C]

I agree. And the people he lost to have their share of losses as well, some just as many (Mosley) and one who faced his knock out loss to the same man to knock out Hoya (Trinidad). Only Mayweather avoided this the moment he saw the man he was to have a rematch with had his proper trainer back and was fighting the way he is made to fight. Possible loss to Hoya/possible loss to Cotto/ possible loss to Margo, all of them might deepened if bruised Mayweather's resume. Avoiding the loss makes your resume empty not better.
You people are fucking delusional if you think an older Oscar with his old trainer is going to make a difference in a guy who has had over 40 fights like Oscar has. There is nothing Oscar could do any different in a rematch that would have made a difference. PBF is the smartest boxer in the game and would have figured out Oscar even sooner in the rematch. Hell he had the deck stacked in his favor the first time and still lost. He would still, be fustrated by PBF's speed, defense and movement. He would still fade down the stretch on cue, he's a 8 round fighter and PBF is a 15 round fighter. He would still let PBF dictate the pace of the fight. PBF beats Oscar 10/10 times he's simply better deal with it.:deal

[eliqueiros]

You people are fucking delusional if you think an older Oscar with his old trainer is going to make a difference in a guy who has had over 40 fights like Oscar has. There is nothing Oscar could do any different in a rematch that would have made a difference. PBF is the smartest boxer in the game and would have figured out Oscar even sooner in the rematch. Hell he had the deck stacked in his favor the first time and still lost. He would still, be fustrated by PBF's speed, defense and movement. He would still fade down the stretch on cue. He would still let PBF dictate the pace of the fight. PBF beats Oscar 10/10 times he's simply better deal with it.:deal

Yeah, sure.

Oscar will be ko'd like Ricky,:lol::lol:

Oscar's the best boxer Floyd ever faced and he lost on style imo. He had Roach dictate a fight plan which had nothing to do with using Oscar's strengths. Roach was just trying to duplicate a Castillo-like attack instead of focusing on Oscar's feet, circling Floyd towards his often dropped left hand, jabbing to open spaces, bringing Floyd out of his defence and into an offence. All this the idiot trainer neglected to do. Mayweather Sr. would have known from the beginning how to have picked apart Floyd as he was himself against Leonard.

[Pimp C]

Yeah, sure.

Oscar will be ko'd like Ricky,:lol::lol:

Oscar's the best boxer Floyd ever faced and he lost on style imo. He had Roach dictate a fight plan which had nothing to do with using Oscar's strengths. Roach was just trying to duplicate a Castillo-like attack instead of focusing on Oscar's feet, circling Floyd towards his often dropped left hand, jabbing to open spaces, bringing Floyd out of his defence and into an offence. All this the idiot trainer neglected to do. Mayweather Sr. would have known from the beginning how to have picked apart Floyd as he was himself against Leonard.
More wishful thinking huh?:lol:
The real deal is that none of that shit would have worked gainst PBF because Oscar can't circle and move like that for more than 5 rounds and he would even tire out faster than he normally does by using that style you mentioned. Not to mention PBF is too smart to fall for a basic trap like that. Boxing 101 my friend and PBF is the teacher not the other way around.:deal

[Amsterdam]

In Oscars resume:

When he stepped up and fought the very best, the elite, he lost.
0 and 5 against them.
In his entire career he never ever unified a title.... NOT ONE!
In 90% of his wins he was the heavier fighter with his opponents stepping up in weight class.
Some of his titles are somewhat bogus ... WBO against Bredhal and the midget Paez.
A relative unknown fighter who was barely top 10 if at all, Sturm, took Oscar to school exposing Oscar as having very little defense against the jab.
Went down from a body tap from Hopkins and stayed down that will always be questioned.
Has always had a problem going the distance, gassing out after 8 or 9 rounds.
Had a brilliant manager in Arum who very carefully handpicked oponents in his earlier career, fighting fighters who were on the down side of their careers or Tito's leftovers.
Had a great career against B and C rated fighters but could not win or dominate the elite class A guys.
ATG ..... No. Very good fighter .... yes.

I wish most top fighters would seek to fight half of the level of competition that Oscar fought.:good