Would a prime Golota...

[Russell]

Give hell to just about any HW in history? As in Andrew from his Bowe performances.

Reminds me of Ike in the sense that he isn't very high at all historically, but he's a well rounded fighter, big man, with enough of everything to give just about anyone hell.

Thoughts?

[Beebs]

The Golota of the second Bowe fight would be a tough fight for anybody in history, this is offset of course by his tendancy to go off the fucking reservation at any given moment.

[ripcity]

Golata would be a tough test for any heaveyweight.

[andyZOR]

A mentally stabled Golota, along with his skills that he showed in the Bowe I and Bowe II fights, would be an unstoppable force. He would be a big thread to fighters.

[Russell]

Any other thoughts? Love to hear from some of the other posters here.

[ChrisPontius]

In terms of skill and speed, he is one of the best superheavyweights i've ever seen. Chin and heart aside, the only thing he lacked was big one-punch power. Other than that, he could do it all. Bowe was past his prime, but i think something overlooked is that he made Bowe look a lot worse than he was. In his fight before that, he was good enough to stop Holyfield, in the 8th. So much for his stamina problem.. Holyfield was a different story of course. But Riddick was still swinging hard until the end. Golota basically retired him with those two beatings, particularly the last one. One of the most brutal modern heavyweight fights.

[Stonehands89]

In terms of skill and speed, he is one of the best superheavyweights i've ever seen. Chin and heart aside, the only thing he lacked was big one-punch power. Other than that, he could do it all. Bowe was past his prime, but i think something overlooked is that he made Bowe look a lot worse than he was. In his fight before that, he was good enough to stop Holyfield, in the 8th. So much for his stamina problem.. Holyfield was a different story of course. But Riddick was still swinging hard until the end. Golota basically retired him with those two beatings, particularly the last one. One of the most brutal modern heavyweight fights.
I agree. Golota moved well -he pivoted and used angles, went to the body, varied his offense... I was sitting there watching it with disbelief at the level of skill; thinking twice about whether John Paul II was the best thing to come out of Poland in the last 50 years. And then he had a nervous breakdown. Since then Golota is way behind Ivan Putski.

I suspect that had Golota handled his demons better, he would have beaten Bowe -and Holyfield- at their best. I think that he had problems with shock troops like Lewis could be, Tyson, and such.

[Sonny's jab]

Yeah, apart from chin and heart, all he lacked was power.
:rofl

[mr. magoo]

A mentally stabled Golota, along with his skills that he showed in the Bowe I and Bowe II fights, would be an unstoppable force. He would be a big thread to fighters.

On an unrelated note, that's one hell of a Muskee or Northern in your avator.

Yours?

[mr. magoo]

Give hell to just about any HW in history? As in Andrew from his Bowe performances.

Reminds me of Ike in the sense that he isn't very high at all historically, but he's a well rounded fighter, big man, with enough of everything to give just about anyone hell.

Thoughts?

I don't know. The concencus on this thread seems to be that Golata was at his best in both the Riddick Bowe fights. Less than one year after giving Bowe a beating for the second time, he was smoked in one round by Lennox Lewis, therefore I can't say that a prime Golata would have been " hell " for everybody. But, I do agree that he would have caused a lot of fighters plenty of problems.

[Russell]

Honestly, I think Golota suffered like another Eastern fighter when it came to "chin" issues, in Wladimir.

I've never seen either of them out cold.

Against Tyson (With an exploded eardrum or some such), and when he was blitzed by Lennox and Brewster... Golota was never out cold and always got up from numerous knockdowns. Even when he wasn't stopped he still picked himself up off the canvas, against Bowe and Grant.

Wladimir has done the exact same thing, all three times he's been stopped. Same thing against Samuel Peter.

It's a mental issue with both fighters. They were both EXTREMELY prone to panicking in the ring, and I'm not one fit to judge them. I don't know how I'd react to having some of the hardest hitters in the past decade of the sport trying to decapitate me in one three minute round in front of thousands of people.

[Russell]

Golota was also injured pretty badly in one of the Bowe fights, and he continued to fight on.

Whether he needed out of the fight because of the injury but didn't feel like opting for a TKO loss or quitting, or he just had a breakdown... Don't know.

[Stonehands89]

Honestly, I think Golota suffered like another Eastern fighter when it came to "chin" issues, in Wladimir.

I've never seen either of them out cold.

Against Tyson (With an exploded eardrum or some such), and when he was blitzed by Lennox and Brewster... Golota was never out cold and always got up from numerous knockdowns. Even when he wasn't stopped he still picked himself up off the canvas, against Bowe and Grant.

Wladimir has done the exact same thing, all three times he's been stopped. Same thing against Samuel Peter.

It's a mental issue with both fighters. They were both EXTREMELY prone to panicking in the ring, and I'm not one fit to judge them. I don't know how I'd react to having some of the hardest hitters in the past decade of the sport trying to decapitate me in one three minute round in front of thousands of people.
good observations.

Word is that Golota was stomping guys in sparring. No one could deal with him. When he was relaxed and comfortable he was 10 times the fighter you saw on TV.

[Russell]

I've heard from more than one source that Golota lived a very, very fucked up life on the street when he was younger.

Wouldn't be surprised if was in some things that borderline break people for the rest of their lives, living on the hard streets of Poland and fighting to survive as a kid.

He obviously carries those things with him, seems like he's prone to panic attacks/anxiety. And not the minor kind, full blown shutdowns.

Who knows.

[Sonny's jab]

The guy lost every big fight he was involved in, and he was involved in several. That's all we need to know.

I'll give him this - he was robbed against Ruiz. And if I'm generous I'll give him the Byrd fight too.

Just to recap ....
He fucked it up badly twice against Bowe, then got iced by Lewis in 1 round, then quit in his next big fight against Michael Grant, and quit against Tyson.
Eventually, when creampuff tree-fairy "champions" like Ruiz and Byrd are ruling the roost, he pulls out a few results, gets jobbed. Then the mighty Lamon Brewster ices him in 1 round.

Ok, I'm getting ahead of myself. It's the Bowe fights version we are looking at. Yeah, he could give all the greats hell if he catches them in the balls like that. No man would have an easy time taking power shots to the nut sack.
Some guys would knock him out before he gets the chance. Others would have to settle for a DQ win and a blackened set of balls. OUCH !

[Sardu]

I think a motivated Golota could do very well against guys like Jack Johnson, Jack Sharkey, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Patterson, Ali, Norton, Ellis, Holmes, Bowe - as we already saw.

The killer punchers are another story IMO. Guys like Jeffries, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Frazier, Foreman, a prime Witherspoon, even someone like Frank Bruno who was a decent boxer and heavy puncher would be dangerous. Ron Lyle and Shavers would be bad matchups because they could punch very hard. But Golota could also outbox them or even knock them out. Remember, Golota is strong as an ox and bigger and heavier than those guys. I don't have to go into Tyson and Lennox Lewis. The Klitschkos would both be too much for Golota to handle also IMO.

[Sardu]

I think Golota would be 50-50 to beat Moorer in his prime. I don't think he could have beaten a prime Holyfield. The comebacking Foreman would have knocked Golota out I believe. Tommy Morrison would be pick-em like Moorer.

[DrunkenShad]

Moorer and Morrison get beaten from corner to corner in brutal fasion, save for the first 3 rounds. Holy stops him late.

[Sonny's jab]

So, Golota has become horribly overrated here on the ESB Classic section now.

[janitor]

I think he could have given most all time greats hell on a given day but I think some would always have cleaned his clock prety convincingly.

I dont know if he would ever have been competitive against Lewis for example.

[Xplosive]

The Golota of the second Bowe fight would be a tough fight for anybody in history, this is offset of course by his tendancy to go off the fucking reservation at any given moment.

No he wouldnt be. Prime versions of Ali, Tyson, Foreman, Holmes, and Liston would all rape any version of Golota.

[frankenfrank]

Golata would be a tough test for any heaveyweight.
tyson also ? tua also ? michael grant ? mccline ? the klitschkos ?
here is one fighter that joe louis would have beaten.

[janitor]

Give hell to just about any HW in history? As in Andrew from his Bowe performances.


I have my doubts.

The obvious first question to ask is would he ever have been competitive against Lewis or a prime Tyson?

[janitor]

here is one fighter that joe louis would have beaten.

How disarmingly generous of you to conceed it.

[My2Sense]

Wasn't Golota still in his prime when Lennox walked through him in a round?

[Xplosive]

Wasn't Golota still in his prime when Lennox walked through him in a round?

Yup. Lewis was just a helluva lot better than a shot Bowe.

[TheGreatA]

Golota was a mental case who could be caught cold but at times displayed great boxing ability.

His response to hitting Bowe below the belt in two successive fights: "The son of a bitch wasn't going down."

[spittle8]

How disarmingly generous of you to conceed it.
:lol:
Golota was a mental case who could be caught cold but at times displayed great boxing ability.

His response to hitting Bowe below the belt in two successive fights: "The son of a bitch wasn't going down."
:think

[Boilermaker]

Golota was a mental case who could be caught cold but at times displayed great boxing ability.

His response to hitting Bowe below the belt in two successive fights: "The son of a bitch wasn't going down."

Bowe was definitely his best effort and a great one, but i think this is telling. Bowe isnt going to blow out any all time great heavyweight. IN fact i dont think that he even has that much of a punchers chance to knock them out. Bowe is lauded as a superheavyweight and one of the most skilled ever and perhaps this is correct. But, due to his poor punching technique (personally i dont see how an arm puncher can be skilled but anyway) he has little power in his punches. This is why he simply couldnt finish Bowe off with his arm punches, despite constantly beating Bowe to the punch.

Look at Bowes record. He simply did not beat any world class heavys by KO. Plenty of KOs in his first fights, until he met the lower level world class (top 30?) journeyman Marion Wilson. He went the distance. More KOs against local level fighters until he met Bowe. Despite dominating, he couldnt break the world class chin of Bowe's, twice. He was KOd by lewis, again a world class level chin (although of little relevance), The next world class fighters were Corey Sanders, the ancient Tim Witherspoon, lower level contender Jesse Ferguson. He couldnt KO any. Next came the world class solid contender but some say china chinned Michael grant. He lost in the 10th, even though he knocked him down in the first he still couldnt finish him off. After ko some more club level fighters, Golota couldnt stop Ruiz or Byrd two smaller but world class fighters and chins. After the Lamotta loss, we then have Golotas two best KO wins in Bates and McBride. To be honest, i struggle to call these two world class fighters despite McBrides win over the ancient Tyson.

All in all, Golota does not have any power to stop fighters at the world class level, much less the all time great level. Two all time great fighters he met (Lewis and Tyson totally dominated him). The third Bowe, did have problems but Bowe himself was past his best by this time, and it shouldnt be forgotten that Golota didnt have the power to beat Bowe.

In answer to the question, I think that Golota's size, style and possible even speed (for his size) when he was in his prime does possess a challenge for all time greats, but none moreso than most of their best opposition (even those criticised for not fighting decent opposition). So i think that i would have to say no, he does not pose much of a risk to ATGs, particularly if he doesnt have a punchers chance.

[TheGreatA]

Golota didn't have a great punch but he did undoubtedly have boxing skills.

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[Russell]

This is why he simply couldnt finish Bowe off with his arm punches, despite constantly beating Bowe to the punch.

.

Golota retired fighters.

He beat Sander's so badly the man went blind in one eye.

He retired Bowe and literally gave the man brain damage.

He ended McBride's career with a ungodly beating.

Vitali doesn't spark guys out either, he grinds them out like Golota often did. Just because a 240-250 pound man isn't committing fully to his punches doesn't mean he isn't devastating and powerful.

[Boilermaker]

Golota retired fighters.

He beat Sander's so badly the man went blind in one eye.

He retired Bowe and literally gave the man brain damage.

He ended McBride's career with a ungodly beating.

Vitali doesn't spark guys out either, he grinds them out like Golota often did. Just because a 240-250 pound man isn't committing fully to his punches doesn't mean he isn't devastating and powerful.

I never said he wasnt powerful, but he certainly wasnt as powerful as he could be. In fact i doubt he hit any harder than many all time great fighters even if he was technically stronger. I believe this is because of his poor technique. This wearing down is all very well, but he never stopped a world class fighter. McBride was the closest or perhaps bates. If he fights another ATG, he cant KO them quickly (or probably at all) which means that at some time, they will test his heart and the reality is, these factors are extremely low on his list of abilities.

Lets be honest, none of the fighters he knocked out give any all time greats the slightest bit of trouble. This includes every single previous world champion. I dont see how his punching power can be rated any higher than some of the lighter hitting heavy champs like say Spinks, Tunney etc. It definitely isnt at the same level of big hitters like Tyson, Lewis, Louis or Dempsey. To be honest, i struggle to think of a former champ with less stopping power and who has failed to stop as many world class heavys.

As a matter of interest, which champions do you think that Golota punched harder than?

[Jorodz]

let's face it guys, you can't ignore golota's faults while emphasizing his strengths, which many are doing here.

did he have ATG qualities? yes. was he ATG? no

the weaknessnes he had were too prominent to ever allow him to beat ANYONE of quality.

quick: name golota's 3 best wins? quick: name golota's 3 best fights? let me guess, they are all loses.

golota is one of boxing's greatest losers and i have no respect for someone with the skills to succeed but never did cause he was too busy punching balls and biting necks

[Genesis]

What we can say, based on his BOWE PERFORMANCES Golota was rated by many Americans to beat Lewis at the time of their bout, because Bowe was rated higher than Lewis at the time.

[Unforgiven]

Golota had boxing ability, size and strength, but his record against top-flight heavyweights in his own era makes a mockery of any suggestion that he'd give any heavyweight in history a tough fight.

Riddick Bowe was never a solid defensive fighter but he more or less quit avoiding any punches from 1994 onwards. Look at him against Herbie Hide and Evander Holyfield in 1995. And it's no surprise the punishment he took coupled with training and dieting issues, and a total neglect for defense, made him a sitting duck for a man of Golota's type. Sure, Golota proved a lot in the Bowe fights, but Bowe proved to be a fighter past his best too. Even then, Golota showed a bizarrely deficient mentality and threw the fights away out of some manic panic that really almost defies explanation.

Golota's a flakey fighter if ever I saw one.
I'm backing the other guy. :lol:

[My2Sense]

When exactly are people here saying Golota's prime "ended"? He was right at the peak of his career when Lennox smashed his way through him, and he still was in or near his prime when he quit to an aging Tyson after just two rounds. That's two fighters right there we KNOW he wouldn't give tough fights to.

[janitor]

Golota retired fighters.

He beat Sander's so badly the man went blind in one eye.

He retired Bowe and literally gave the man brain damage.

He ended McBride's career with a ungodly beating.

Vitali doesn't spark guys out either, he grinds them out like Golota often did. Just because a 240-250 pound man isn't committing fully to his punches doesn't mean he isn't devastating and powerful.

The guys who do that are the ones who are punishing (usualy hard) hitters that keep their oponent on their feet for a long time.

[TheGreatA]

When exactly are people here saying Golota's prime "ended"? He was right at the peak of his career when Lennox smashed his way through him, and he still was in or near his prime when he quit to an aging Tyson after just two rounds. That's two fighters right there we KNOW he wouldn't give tough fights to.

In Golota's case it's difficult to say he ever had much of a "prime". Sometimes he would perform, sometimes he wouldn't.

He didn't even do that bad in the second round against Tyson before quitting.

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I imagine most of the time he would end up doing something like this against a great opponent in their prime.

[zadfrak]

Bowe was definitely his best effort and a great one, but i think this is telling. Bowe isnt going to blow out any all time great heavyweight. IN fact i dont think that he even has that much of a punchers chance to knock them out. Bowe is lauded as a superheavyweight and one of the most skilled ever and perhaps this is correct. But, due to his poor punching technique (personally i dont see how an arm puncher can be skilled but anyway) he has little power in his punches. This is why he simply couldnt finish Bowe off with his arm punches, despite constantly beating Bowe to the punch.

Look at Bowes record. He simply did not beat any world class heavys by KO. Plenty of KOs in his first fights, until he met the lower level world class (top 30?) journeyman Marion Wilson. He went the distance. More KOs against local level fighters until he met Bowe. Despite dominating, he couldnt break the world class chin of Bowe's, twice. He was KOd by lewis, again a world class level chin (although of little relevance), The next world class fighters were Corey Sanders, the ancient Tim Witherspoon, lower level contender Jesse Ferguson. He couldnt KO any. Next came the world class solid contender but some say china chinned Michael grant. He lost in the 10th, even though he knocked him down in the first he still couldnt finish him off. After ko some more club level fighters, Golota couldnt stop Ruiz or Byrd two smaller but world class fighters and chins. After the Lamotta loss, we then have Golotas two best KO wins in Bates and McBride. To be honest, i struggle to call these two world class fighters despite McBrides win over the ancient Tyson.

All in all, Golota does not have any power to stop fighters at the world class level, much less the all time great level. Two all time great fighters he met (Lewis and Tyson totally dominated him). The third Bowe, did have problems but Bowe himself was past his best by this time, and it shouldnt be forgotten that Golota didnt have the power to beat Bowe.

In answer to the question, I think that Golota's size, style and possible even speed (for his size) when he was in his prime does possess a challenge for all time greats, but none moreso than most of their best opposition (even those criticised for not fighting decent opposition). So i think that i would have to say no, he does not pose much of a risk to ATGs, particularly if he doesnt have a punchers chance.

Right. Agree 100% on the Golata punching power. And another critical flaw was his finishing ability and finishing instincts. And that's looking at the best part of his game--offense.

The problem is defense.



Almost everyone seems to evaluate the heavyweights on their punching power and seem to think that aspect alone determines the outcome of every heavyweight fight. What about a guy's defense? Golata held his left low. He's open for jabs. The guy simply eats straight right hands. He does not react well when he does get tagged and hurt. Once hit a little, he falls badly for feints. He cuts.

Golata also makes mistakes when he gets fatigued and he'll resort to even more fouling and more mental lapses during portions of a round. These types of defensive shortcomings are simply far too exploitable when facing the best fighters. That skillset is simply going to come up short once a top caliber opponent is in the opposing corner.

[Hoax976]

When exactly are people here saying Golota's prime "ended"? He was right at the peak of his career when Lennox smashed his way through him, and he still was in or near his prime when he quit to an aging Tyson after just two rounds. That's two fighters right there we KNOW he wouldn't give tough fights to.


He was not in his physical prime vs Tyson. Golota was in a car accident (which killed his passenger friend) that forever ruined his terrific left jab. This happened right after the Grant fight. So I'd say Golota's prime ended after the Grant fight when Golota was 31. He was never the same after that.

[Flea Man]

I agree with the Thread Starter 100%....shame he'll fuck it up for himself even if he does well.

Ibeabuchi vs Golota Prime for Prime anyone???

[Xplosive]

I agree with the Thread Starter 100%....shame he'll fuck it up for himself even if he does well.

Ibeabuchi vs Golota Prime for Prime anyone???

Ike would have stopped him. Ike might have been a psycho outside the ring, but inside the ring he had better control of his mind than did Golota.

I'm still laughing at the thread starter who thinks Golota would hold his own w/anyone. Could you picture Golota vs the 73-74 Foreman? George woulda had him pissing his pants during the staredown. Then woulda destroyed him.

[zadfrak]

And the Klitschko's have been after him a long time as well. That bout sells very well in europe. How about the Vitali stare/no nonsense approach/towering over him and in the meantime, Golata is the guy entering the ring first and being the guy to kill 10 minutes before the bell rings.