Joe Louis - Did he age well?

[Russell]

As a fighter?

I've heard some say he still wasn't a bad win on Marciano's resume despite his age... He did have a decent winning streak leading up to the Marciano fight. Not in his prime for sure, but he supposedly aged better than some.

Thoughts?

[Dempsey1238]

Louis still had his great jab though. He also seem to take punchings better past his prime than in his prime. Still a good win, Louis was still beating top contenders by the time Marciano got to him. This was not Holmes Ali or Johnson Jeff. Thsos guys were near corpses. Louis was not a corpse. He still had stinging power, and that jab. Even though he was outpointed by Charles, He still busted up Charles's face with his jab, Charles right eye was close, and Charles left eye was busted up.

Lets not forget that Marciano was also green. I think Marciano reach his peak by the time of the Matthews fight or LarSarza 2.

[Joe E]

He aged alot better than Ali did thats for sure.

[Russell]

He aged alot better than Ali did thats for sure.

Well, he also let himself be beat him far, far less.

Ever see the exhibition with Dokes that Ali had when he was something like 30 pounds overweight?

That contributed to his problems just as much as the Frazier fights. He was a human punching bag later on.

[The Kurgan]

I think he minimised his decline by virtue of his skill, which made him more able to age gracefully than boxers who were more dependant on natural talent (Ali, Roy Jones, Chris Eubank Tyson, Hamed). On the other hand, the post-war Louis became less and less powerful as his handspeed declined. Like Ali, Louis's power came from being fast of fist (although Louis had more raw power than Ali as well) and once that began to go, his power dropped accordingly.

Mariciano said he was shocked at how little power was left in Louis's right hand.

[hobgoblin]

Mariciano said he was shocked at how little power was left in Louis's right hand


Really?

[Cachibatches]

He won eight straight, and beat a ranked Brit who was recognised in his own country as the champ. Was it Farr? Can't remember.

[Cachibatches]

I think he minimised his decline by virtue of his skill, which made him more able to age gracefully than boxers who were more dependant on natural talent (Ali, Roy Jones, Chris Eubank Tyson, Hamed). On the other hand, the post-war Louis became less and less powerful as his handspeed declined. Like Ali, Louis's power came from being fast of fist (although Louis had more raw power than Ali as well) and once that began to go, his power dropped accordingly.

Mariciano said he was shocked at how little power was left in Louis's right hand.
Nice analysis. Thank you.

[The Kurgan]

Really?

So I've heard from posters on here who are far more clued up on Marciano than I am.

[janitor]

I think he minimised his decline by virtue of his skill, which made him more able to age gracefully than boxers who were more dependant on natural talent (Ali, Roy Jones, Chris Eubank Tyson, Hamed). On the other hand, the post-war Louis became less and less powerful as his handspeed declined. Like Ali, Louis's power came from being fast of fist (although Louis had more raw power than Ali as well) and once that began to go, his power dropped accordingly.

Mariciano said he was shocked at how little power was left in Louis's right hand.

This is a sound analysis. Louis was a fighter who relied on his reflexes more than most. He also had a hell of a lot of mileage on the clock by the time he made his ill fated comeback.

Having made these observations I would still consider him a good scalp at any stage of his career. When he fought Marciano he would probably have still been able to beat any heavyweight out there except for Walcott and Charles.

[SuzieQ49]

Somewhat. He lost alot of speed and sharpness in his reflexes, and couldnt unleash his cobinations in the same manner, but he still had the best jab in the division, good size, and he still had some stingy power left as you can see when he knocks durable lee savold out with 1 punch. He lacked the reflexes to finish people off, but when he landed in his 50-51 fights it did massive damage to his opponents. charles and marciano said louis jab was like getting hit by a telephone pole. Joe Louis also knocked Nino Valdez out in 1 round in a live exhibition fight in 1951. 2 years later nino would be # 1 contender, whom many marciano detractors claim marciano avoided. marciano slaughtered louis in 8.

incidently nino at 6'3 210lb would not hold a size advantage over the 6'2 215lb joe louis.



I think the 1947-48 joe louis was much better. I dont know what happened from 1948 to 1950, but louis speed reflexes badly declined.


This is a solid win for marciano over a big dangerous top contender that many critisize him of failing to face

[apollack]

I basically think Louis was a shell of himself after the war years. That said, the guy was so good that even at 50%, he was able to defeat a lot of good competition.

[SuzieQ49]

shell in 1946-1948? watch the louis of the walcott fights. he still had blazing fast handspeed, still terrific deadly combinations, elegent powerful jab, spectacular power and strong bigger at 213lb. louis might have been slightly less mobile with slightly deteriorated reflexes, but louis of 1946-48 was clearly still a great fighter.


louis aged badly from the 2nd walcott fight to the charles fight. louis was still pretty good in 1950 but no longer great.

[Sonny's jab]

He didnt age exceptionally well but he was so damn good to start with

[janitor]

He didnt age exceptionally well but he was so damn good to start with

That is of course part of the story.

He was falling off from a verry high pedestal to start with.

[Senya13]

Liebling in 'Sweet Science' wrote very well about aging Louis, in the first chapter if I recall correctly.

[fists of fury]

I think he aged brilliantly. He had a long and successful reign as champ, and during his comeback he was probably still in the top 4 or 5 ighters in the division.
He thrashed Lou Nova (a guy Marciano looked really clumsy against) and although obviously he was not the same guy he had been years before, he was still a dangerous opponent.

In the build-up to the Marciano fight his trainer (for the life of me I can't recall his name right now) was very pleased with how Joe was coming along in training. He felt he was in better shape than at any other point during his comeback.

Hearing such reports emanating from the Louis camp was a cause for concern for the Marciano camp. They didn't like what they were hearing. Whether Joe really was in such good shape or it was propoganda I can't say, but the Marciano camp took Joe very, very seriously indeed.