patterson vs marciano late 56 or 57

[pare]

this has probably been done before, but i was wondering what people's thoughts are on what would have happened had these two actually met.

it could be a case of patterson being rock's next fight (he didn't retire), or perhaps rock does retire, patterson won the belt as history recorded, then rock decides to win the belt back and round his record to 50-0.

the thing that made me think that it's not just a case of chinny patterson getting blown out by the rock are their fights with moore... what do you think?

[Bummy Davis]

Marciano would always be too much for Patterson....Marciano Ko

[SuzieQ49]

Rocky was slowing down by 56 and pattersons speed and combinations could give especially the 1956 version of rock quite a bit of trouble, but patterson in 1956 at 21 182lb was just too inexperienced and too meak to beat marciano at that stage. patterson of 56 loved to brawl, and I can't see a young floyd being durable enough to survive even a 33 year old marcianos firepower and veteran experience. Not to mention floyd if he wants to beat rocky has to keep up with his pace for 15 rounds. Strong Swarmer Hurricane Jackson gave floyd huge fits in there 1956 fight with his ackwardness strength and windmill style. I dont think youth beats old age in this one. Not in 1956. by 1958 rocky will have slowed down enough for floyd to take him. pattersons speed would give 33 year old rocky trouble the first couple rounds but once rocky got going and started landing patterson will go down and out eventually. If were talking prime for prime, I dont think floyd makes it out of two rounds with the 1951 slugger version of rocky. Pattersons style plays right into rockys hands. Patterson was a great fighter though, I think he beats many top heavyweights head to head.

[djanders]

Marciano would have won this by early knockout...in my opinion.

[MRBILL]

The Patterson of '56 who KO'd Moore in 5 rds was on fire.............. I'd guess he'd have taken Rocco Marciano to school in '56 or '57........... Marciano was past it and slowing down after 1955.......

MR.BILL

[doug.ie]

Rocky was slowing down by 56 and pattersons speed and combinations could give especially the 1956 version of rock quite a bit of trouble, but patterson in 1956 at 21 182lb was just too inexperienced and too meak to beat marciano at that stage. patterson of 56 loved to brawl, and I can't see a young floyd being durable enough to survive even a 33 year old marcianos firepower and veteran experience. Not to mention floyd if he wants to beat rocky has to keep up with his pace for 15 rounds. Strong Swarmer Hurricane Jackson gave floyd huge fits in there 1956 fight with his ackwardness strength and windmill style. I dont think youth beats old age in this one. Not in 1956. by 1958 rocky will have slowed down enough for floyd to take him. pattersons speed would give 33 year old rocky trouble the first couple rounds but once rocky got going and started landing patterson will go down and out eventually. If were talking prime for prime, I dont think floyd makes it out of two rounds with the 1951 slugger version of rocky. Pattersons style plays right into rockys hands. Patterson was a great fighter though, I think he beats many top heavyweights head to head.

jesus, thats a great post ^^ :good

[MrMarvel]

If Walcott goes 13 rounds and Charles goes 15, Patterson is not getting blown out. I think Marciano's awkwardness and wildness is the X-factor here. It could go either way. Patterson was a much better boxer and the much faster of the two. He had good power, too. But Patterson had that chin problem. And in 1956, he had only not been a light heavyweight for a few fights. I don't know. I always wished Patterson had stayed at light heavyweight. I have always felt that he was out of league. Remarkable that he accomplished what he did despite his size.

[teeto]

Marciano for me.

[SuzieQ49]

Mr. Marvel aka Revolver Megaman Pepping It Hank

[janitor]

If Walcott goes 13 rounds and Charles goes 15, Patterson is not getting blown out.

Stylistic diferences?????????????

[SuzieQ49]

Ben,

Just remember who your argueing with...Revolver....A more laid back version of Revolver, but still Revolver none the less. Megaman Pepping It Homicide Hank they all are Mr. Marvel. That means he is always right and his arrogant attitude will never see your point.

[janitor]

Ben,

Just remember who your argueing with...Revolver....A more laid back version of Revolver, but still Revolver none the less. Megaman Pepping It Homicide Hank they all are Mr. Marvel. That means he is always right and his arrogant attitude will never see your point.

Perhaps we should give him the benefit of the doubt just in case he isnt Revolver?

If he isnt then this is not the reception we would want to give him as a newbie.

[MrMarvel]

Perhaps we should give him the benefit of the doubt just in case he isnt Revolver?

If he isnt then this is not the reception we would want to give him as a newbie.

I appreciate the sentiments. But it's okay. The man isn't bothering me with all this side stuff. I am just going to keep talking about boxing. All this personality crap is a distraction anyway. Peace.

[markedwardscott]

I think it was more of a flash knock down of Marciano by Moore. I think the Rock would wear down Patterson and win by kayo.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Russell]

Marciano was ready to be taken at the very end of his career. If he staged a comeback I feel that he absolutely would have been beaten by most elite, world class fighters of the time.

The fire and motivation was dimming. His ability to get into amazing shape with that endless stamina. The wars had taken their toll, the serious back injuries...

So who knows.

[Bummy Davis]

The Patterson of '56 who KO'd Moore in 5 rds was on fire.............. I'd guess he'd have taken Rocco Marciano to school in '56 or '57........... Marciano was past it and slowing down after 1955.......

MR.BILL


even with Floyd at his best and Marciano at his worst Floyd would have been KO'd, I like Floyd, I knew Floyd and knew his family well, they thought he had a strong chance over Ali ( who they felt was overated) but Knew Marciano was all wrong for him

[TheGreatA]

It would've been an interesting match-up. A young, determined challenger with a great advantage in speed but a suspect chin against a warrior on the decline who still had his punch.

Patterson vs Moore with Marciano on the commentary:
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[SuzieQ49]

I like Floyd, I knew Floyd and knew his family well, they thought he had a strong chance over Ali ( who they felt was overated) but Knew Marciano was all wrong for him

Wow bummy...any stories through experience with his family? What did they say specificully about marciano? and what did they think of liston?

[jaffay]

Rocky was slowing down by 56 and pattersons speed and combinations could give especially the 1956 version of rock quite a bit of trouble, but patterson in 1956 at 21 182lb was just too inexperienced and too meak to beat marciano at that stage. patterson of 56 loved to brawl, and I can't see a young floyd being durable enough to survive even a 33 year old marcianos firepower and veteran experience. Not to mention floyd if he wants to beat rocky has to keep up with his pace for 15 rounds. Strong Swarmer Hurricane Jackson gave floyd huge fits in there 1956 fight with his ackwardness strength and windmill style. I dont think youth beats old age in this one. Not in 1956. by 1958 rocky will have slowed down enough for floyd to take him. pattersons speed would give 33 year old rocky trouble the first couple rounds but once rocky got going and started landing patterson will go down and out eventually. If were talking prime for prime, I dont think floyd makes it out of two rounds with the 1951 slugger version of rocky. Pattersons style plays right into rockys hands. Patterson was a great fighter though, I think he beats many top heavyweights head to head.

co-sign

I wonder in which period we can say that Rocky was in his prime...any thoughts?

[dezbeast]

co-sign

I wonder in which period we can say that Rocky was in his prime...any thoughts?

I liked him in '53, particularly the 2nd LaStarza fight.

[pare]

Marciano was ready to be taken at the very end of his career. If he staged a comeback I feel that he absolutely would have been beaten by most elite, world class fighters of the time.

The fire and motivation was dimming. His ability to get into amazing shape with that endless stamina. The wars had taken their toll, the serious back injuries...

So who knows.

that's exactly what i was thinking as well... one of rock's great strengths was his will, and it's been well documented that he was losing that fire near the end. he said even the smell of a gym was turning him off, so i guess the quest for 50-0 against patterson may not have been that easy. of course, prime for prime it's a definite ko win for the rock.

[Bummy Davis]

Wow bummy...any stories through experience with his family? What did they say specificully about marciano? and what did they think of liston?


Floyd had a lot of respect for Marciano and they really did not see too many kinks in his armor, they knew it was the wrong fight for Floyd and Cus had avoided the move into Heavy if Rocky was going to stay, remember Archie Moore as great as he was, had a dominant loss to Marciano, and Floyd had youth and speed and Archie had just taken the worst beating of his life from Marciano....Liston was the wrong fight for Floyd and Floyd fought him all wrong, In the 2nd fight he made the same mistake...going right to Sonny. he faced his fear head on,he had the same problem with the flawed bomber Ingo, but the power was a problem for Floyd. and he could not really relax...What surprised me is the confidence that Floyd would beat Ali, they told me to bet Floyd...but Floyd had the injury when it got closer to the fight....Floyd landed well on Ali and it was the smaller heavys that troubled Ali....They wanted a 3rd fight with Ali and really felt if Floyd was healthy could beat him....They indicated that something was wrong with the Ali/Liston fights...I could not really figure out what they meant by that

Floyds brother in law was a tough,Italian guy (ex-fighter) who owned a restaurant and Bar...him and Floyd were like brothers and they used to spar together. I seen this guy KO a unruly bar patron who was a foot taller than Floyds brother in law and younger. It was one of the best clean KO's I saw...the guys legs were shaking like INGO's....

[jowcol]

Just a point, If Marciano wins this inside of distance, it will be a (T)KO not a KO....

[SuzieQ49]

JOWCOL,

Sonny Liston beat floyd patterson twice by KO not TKO. patterson was down for the 10 count in both fights

[dezbeast]

I think Liston punched a lot harder than Marciano. Not only that, but Liston's fists were heavier and he had a much longer reach, allowing his fists more time of acceleration before connecting, which translates to even more power. You must look at it from a scientific viewpoint to see it more realistically. I think Rocky generated about as much power as Floyd.

[Dempsey1238]

I think Liston punched a lot harder than Marciano. Not only that, but Liston's fists were heavier and he had a much longer reach, allowing his fists more time of acceleration before connecting, which translates to even more power. You must look at it from a scientific viewpoint to see it more realistically. I think Rocky generated about as much power as Floyd.


Not sure on that, Marciano knock people out cold, broke cheek and teeth bones, and chip the bones of LaSarza, Patterson never show such power, sure the ko over Ingo in the 2nd fight was impressive, but Marciano more than often left them in worse shape, I dont recall Liston doing such damage outside of Wepner.

[jowcol]

JOWCOL,
Sonny Liston beat floyd patterson twice by KO not TKO. patterson was down for the 10 count in both fights

Hey SQ; I just always want to clarify that Floyd was ALWAYS rising from KD's, including Sonny's. I think the weakness of his chin is overstated. NO ref ever stood over a motionless Floyd and tolled "8-9-10 yer out!!" as has been the case with some HOF greats. Sonny had repeatedly said that he NEVER hit anyone as hard as he clocked Floyd and Ingo nailed him with his down the pipe Sunday shot. IMO lesser fighters took the Rock deep into fights. Perhaps a young 56 Floyd would have been too green. Someone mentioned a PvP matchup, say a 52-53 Rock vs. a 65-66 Floyd? We might have a decent scrap this one.
1) Patterson had adapted his style at that point a tad, was a little better balanced, and pulled back a bit from his constant swarming attack.
2) Chuvalo's certainly no Rock, but a comparison can be made. There was Floyd in the trenches, taking big body/head shots, staying erect and firing back. He simply outworked George.
Maybe Rock would always prevail but I don't see this as some sort of mis-match by ANY stretch.

[janitor]

I think Liston punched a lot harder than Marciano. Not only that, but Liston's fists were heavier and he had a much longer reach, allowing his fists more time of acceleration before connecting, which translates to even more power. You must look at it from a scientific viewpoint to see it more realistically. I think Rocky generated about as much power as Floyd.

I am not sure that you interpret punching mechanics corectly.

I dont think that a longer reach or heavier fist necisarily means more power.

I also dont think that the hardest punchers necisarily have fast hands.

I have looked for logical paterns in punching power for years and there dont seem to be many.

Oh and to complicate matters further power is only one factor in determining a knockout.

[spittle8]

If Floyd gets knocked down by Ingemar then I don't see him having a great shot against even an old and tired Marciano. Eventually, he's going to get hit. That left hook is a weapon for sure, and Patterson was a great fighter and amazing athlete, so you can't rule him out, but I wouldn't favor him.

[Rico Spadafora]

I would think Marciano would catch Patterson with a big punch and KO him.

It is an interesting fight though.

[SuzieQ49]

I think Liston punched a lot harder than Marciano. Not only that, but Liston's fists were heavier and he had a much longer reach, allowing his fists more time of acceleration before connecting, which translates to even more power. You must look at it from a scientific viewpoint to see it more realistically. I think Rocky generated about as much power as Floyd.


:patsch:patsch:patsch:patsch:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

[SuzieQ49]

Perhaps we should give him the benefit of the doubt just in case he isnt Revolver?

If he isnt then this is not the reception we would want to give him as a newbie.


I am 100% sure Mr. Marvel is Revolver, Megaman, Homicide Hank, Pepping it. If you really don't think he is, then you must be caught in the middle of a brainfog. The evidence is there! It is clearly him, no if ands or butts. He is back and trying to be more laid back with his opinions, but sometimes he comes out with his same old arrogant self. His opinions writing and "Insults" are all the same as Revolver's, it is clearly him. I hope he gets Banned.

[GPater11093]

I am 100% sure Mr. Marvel is Revolver, Megaman, Homicide Hank, Pepping it. If you really don't think he is, then you must be caught in the middle of a brainfog. The evidence is there! It is clearly him, no if ands or butts. He is back and trying to be more laid back with his opinions, but sometimes he comes out with his same old arrogant self. His opinions writing and "Insults" are all the same as Revolver's, it is clearly him. I hope he gets Banned.

Suzie he has been posting for before a few weeks since you came back and caused no trouble and has been an alright poster so i reckon you should lay off it just now just in case its not him as it wouldnt be very nice if it wasnt him wouldnt it

[SuzieQ49]

Suzie he has been posting for before a few weeks since you came back and caused no trouble and has been an alright poster so i reckon you should lay off it just now just in case its not him as it wouldnt be very nice if it wasnt him wouldnt it

Gpator,

I like you alot man and we share the same opinions mostly, but you were not a member of this forum 3-4 years ago so you have no idea what went on. This poster...Revolver...Literally destroyed the classic section of ESB. We lost more good posters than Russians in world war II because of him. We nearly had to shut the classic section down Revolver had taken it over with his slander and trolling. Finally we got him Banned. 1 year later he managed to sneak back with new names Megaman, Pepping it, and Homicide Hank...Everyone here knew all aliases were Revolver, of course he refused to admit it, but we exposed him and he soon dissapeared(coincidently all 3 names at the same time!)...... Now all of a sudden Mr. Marvel appears. Mr. Marvel's opinions, writings, etc are near IDENTICIAL to that of Revolver, Megaman, Pepping it, Homicide Hank......and though he has remained laid back, I fear a future outbreak of his same slander and trolling once again. It is quite clear if you do some research Mr. Marvel is Revolver. He needs to be banned forever. No room here for a man like that.

[GPater11093]

Gpator,

I like you alot man and we share the same opinions mostly, but you were not a member of this forum 3-4 years ago so you have no idea what went on. This poster...Revolver...Literally destroyed the classic section of ESB. We lost more good posters than Russians in world war II because of him. We nearly had to shut the classic section down Revolver had taken it over with his slander and trolling. Finally we got him Banned. 1 year later he managed to sneak back with new names Megaman, Pepping it, and Homicide Hank...Everyone here knew all aliases were Revolver, of course he refused to admit it, but we exposed him and he soon dissapeared(coincidently all 3 names at the same time!)...... Now all of a sudden Mr. Marvel appears. Mr. Marvel's opinions, writings, etc are near IDENTICIAL to that of Revolver, Megaman, Pepping it, Homicide Hank......and though he has remained laid back, I fear a future outbreak of his same slander and trolling once again. It is quite clear if you do some research Mr. Marvel is Revolver. He needs to be banned forever. No room here for a man like that.


thats pretty bad man but the guy hasnt done anything, hes innocent until proven guilty but to be fair he has had plenty of oppertunities to be a prickk and has refrained form it
n here knew me:Dalso good to hear you like me, i even wondered if people o

[Dempsey1238]

Revolver, not sure if it is him. We wait and see, and lets not jump into conclusions.

He may have the same thoughts as Revolver, and thats ok, I can lived with that, but once he says 56 is the cut off mark ete, ok perhaps.

[Arka]

I don't like Marciano's chronic back problems-this IMO affected his one punch KO power.
I see this fight going into the late rounds,which would be in the younger man's favour.

[Arka]

I appreciate the sentiments. But it's okay. The man isn't bothering me with all this side stuff. I am just going to keep talking about boxing. All this personality crap is a distraction anyway. Peace.

Well you didn't outright deny that you were the poster who went by the name Revolver. I'll leave the members of the classic forum to draw their own conclusions.:D

What was about this Revolver's posts that were so aggravating anyway?

[SuzieQ49]

What was about this Revolver's posts that were so aggravating anyway?



:lol::lol: I'll leave it to one of the other posters here to tell you :rofl:rofl

[Dempsey1238]

Joe Louis sucks
Rocky Marciano sucks
The "Modern" era started on April 27 1956.
Louis fought nothing but Bums.
I agree with the most part for Dempsey lol.
Marciano fought bums, fix fights, in the mob, had loses overturn into wins ete, White trash.

Talk smack about Barney Ross.

[SuzieQ49]

The "Modern" era started on April 27 1956.

You made me laugh out loud with that

[Dempsey1238]

And lets not forget the credit he gave L Spinks for suppose victorys over evey one from Marciano back to Sullivan.

Than he says middleweights fighting for the title in the 50's(Charles, Moore, Walcott,) and some won the title, proves its weak, than I made a comment on Jr and Toney beating Ruiz and winning a title, and he trys to write that off or something.

[SuzieQ49]

Anyone remember Revolver's top 20 heavyweights of all time list? I remember he had Marciano at 17, Louis was not in the top 20, he had Bowe and Norton in the top 10.

[Dempsey1238]

Will give him credit with Marciano over Louis, mostly because Rock came later than Louis, so he ate better thaan Louis.

Patterson came later than Marciano, so he ate better than Marciano. And it goes down the line for the most part. Well outside of Ali of couse.

[TheGreatA]

On another boxing forum I was told that Muhammad Ali "invented" handspeed and that Tye Fields (pre-Monte Barrett) would have a serious chance against a prime George Foreman because of his size but old George would likely beat Fields because the size difference isn't as significant. :huh

[RockyJim]

Marciano by KO....too many guns!!!

[Chiefs]

Patterson maybe able to outbox him.

[SuzieQ49]

Patterson maybe able to outbox him.

he sure had trouble outboxing poor mans swarmer Hurricane Jackson in 56

[rodney]

In order to have a chance against Marciano --- you sort of have to have a chin.

[spittle8]

I have great respect for both men, Floyd being more the athlete. I won't make a prediction, but... Marciano by KO. :good