Why Barrera vs Pac is not a waste of time

[Nigel_Benn]

Barrera is coming of a close loss to JMM which really coulda gone his way, Pac i have no doubts is setting his sights on Marquez so the logical piece of buisness for the winner is a rematch with JMM, Barrera can not be counted out of this fight il Believe Barrera hasnt got a chance when i see what hes like in the fight i think we have learnt never to write him of.

[Stewbear]

If anyone thinks it is a wast of time they should just watch Barrera - JMM

[Nigel_Benn]

I meant i dont write barrera of yet i said il wait to see how he is doing in the fight to better understand if he has a chance.

[Stinky gloves]

The Barrera - PAC is aperfect elliminator for fighting Marquez who is currently the best at 130lb.

[divac]

The Barrera - PAC is aperfect elliminator for fighting Marquez who is currently the best at 130lb.
JMM-MAB was supposed to be the eliminator to fight Pac, now its Pac-MAB thats being pointed at as the eliminator.:lol:


In all honesty, the older you get, the more complicated and harder it is to go up against speed and stamina!
Those are two of the three criteria that Pac posseses that complicates matters for an aging fighter thats losing speed and reflexes as he's aging.

You're fooling yourself if you're trying to convince yourself that JMM-MAB was a close fight that could have gone either way.
The three judges, and most boxing scribes had Marquez comfortably beating MAB.

Its highly unlikely that MAB would be able to deal with Pac now, what he could'nt do over three years ago.

Having said that, its not an impossibility imo. MAB has to develop (and at his age it is'nt easy) a right hand counter to Pac's straight left.

That right hand counter is the one thing that JMM and Morales employed to beat Pac.
MAB relies more on his left hook and jab, that plays right into Pac's strenghths, as Pac who does'nt really do all that much offensively with his right (although he may have gotten a little better with it) he's still not really active with that right hand.
So what Pac does is use his right to defend what MAB's strenghths are, the hook and jab.
Pac will mainly stick out his right to defend and pick off MAB's left hand, which is his primary weapon.

MAB has to develop during his training for Pac, a good enough right hand with some pop, to counter Pac's left.
It's got to be a good, quick, straight right.
It he does that, he's good and sound enough with his feet to move away from Pac's left, and have Pac lunging, just as JMM and Morales did to him the first fight.

I think stylistically MAB could do it, he could develop and strategize to use and rely more on a straight right than his custumary left.
.....the other problem is that Pac is at the height of his career, and stamina wise, few are better.
MAB clearly was laboring the last several rounds vs JMM.

I could see MAB actually outboxing PAC for the first several rounds, but it becomes harder for me to envision him sustaining his energy level to fend off a Pac who will attack with power, speed and abandon throughout.
Stamina will be the key for MAB to have a chance to beat Pac, I dont believe MAB will have the energy to fend off Pac late, and will most likely get stopped late by Pac.

I dont see it as an impossibility however for MAB have built enough lead and then to survive the last couple of rounds to eek out a decision.
Its highly unlikey, but not an impossibility.

[ripcity]

I can't think of a more intregreing upcomeing fight Hatton-Mayweither is close. First of all Pacquaio is one of the best boxers in the world right now. I rank him #2. He is exciting and fun to watch. He also has a large fan base. In their first fight he domanated Barrera stoping him in the 11th round.
Barrera will be looking to avenge what could be called the worset defeet of his carrear. Barrera is a vetren boxer who is known for his abillity to make the adjustments needed to win.

[Morrissey]

The most dangerous foe is someone who is just coming from a competitive loss.

[divac]

The most dangerous foe is someone who is just coming from a competitive loss.

Glad to hear a Pac fan reason and know that their fighter has flaws that could be brought out by the right strategy.

Dont worry so much Morrisey Pal, its highly unlikely that MAB will be able to hang with Pac stamina wise, although it may be a great fight early.

It will take an almost perfect fight for MAB to even have a chance to win.

[Morrissey]

Glad to hear a Pac fan reason and know that their fighter has flaws that could be brought out by the right strategy.

Dont worry so much Morrisey Pal, its highly unlikely that MAB will be able to hang with Pac stamina wise, although it may be a great fight early.

It will take an almost perfect fight for MAB to even have a chance to win.

Yes. I actually think this is going to be a replay of the 1st match, but the fact that MAB is coming from a loss gives him more reasons to make this competitive and even inspire him to pull off a victory.

Thought as you say, it is very unlikely, which I share the view also.

I am going to see this to gauge what Pac can do and how he can do it. If he is still sharp and still lethal with his combinations, as much as to see MAB give us his swan song.

Guzman and Soto will probably happen also. Who are you going to pick there?

I know you are not that sold on Guzman but after JMM and his team skipped the offer for a unification title fight, do you now see him as a potential threat now?:thumbsup

You know what, I think Guzman has the skills and the chin to be a good contender though I feel his stamina is not ar par with the elites.

[Thinman]

JMM-MAB was supposed to be the eliminator to fight Pac, now its Pac-MAB thats being pointed at as the eliminator.:lol:


In all honesty, the older you get, the more complicated and harder it is to go up against speed and stamina!
Those are two of the three criteria that Pac posseses that complicates matters for an aging fighter thats losing speed and reflexes as he's aging.

You're fooling yourself if you're trying to convince yourself that JMM-MAB was a close fight that could have gone either way.
The three judges, and most boxing scribes had Marquez comfortably beating MAB.

Its highly unlikely that MAB would be able to deal with Pac now, what he could'nt do over three years ago.

Having said that, its not an impossibility imo. MAB has to develop (and at his age it is'nt easy) a right hand counter to Pac's straight left.

That right hand counter is the one thing that JMM and Morales employed to beat Pac.
MAB relies more on his left hook and jab, that plays right into Pac's strenghths, as Pac who does'nt really do all that much offensively with his right (although he may have gotten a little better with it) he's still not really active with that right hand.
So what Pac does is use his right to defend what MAB's strenghths are, the hook and jab.
Pac will mainly stick out his right to defend and pick off MAB's left hand, which is his primary weapon.

MAB has to develop during his training for Pac, a good enough right hand with some pop, to counter Pac's left.
It's got to be a good, quick, straight right.
It he does that, he's good and sound enough with his feet to move away from Pac's left, and have Pac lunging, just as JMM and Morales did to him the first fight.

I think stylistically MAB could do it, he could develop and strategize to use and rely more on a straight right than his custumary left.
.....the other problem is that Pac is at the height of his career, and stamina wise, few are better.
MAB clearly was laboring the last several rounds vs JMM.

I could see MAB actually outboxing PAC for the first several rounds, but it becomes harder for me to envision him sustaining his energy level to fend off a Pac who will attack with power, speed and abandon throughout.
Stamina will be the key for MAB to have a chance to beat Pac, I dont believe MAB will have the energy to fend off Pac late, and will most likely get stopped late by Pac.

I dont see it as an impossibility however for MAB have built enough lead and then to survive the last couple of rounds to eek out a decision.
Its highly unlikey, but not an impossibility.

I agree with you. It is about having a good right hand. MAB needs in this fight a good right hand like TH or AA had.

[divac]

I agree with you. It is about having a good right hand. MAB needs in this fight a good right hand like TH or AA had.

Hearns and Arguello's right hands were lethal, that would be asking an awful lot of MAB!

MAB just needs to shoot out a straight potent enough right to keep Pac honest and offbalance.

Forget it Thinman, a Hearns or Arguello type with lethal rights would be Pac's worst nightmare!

[divac]

Yes. I actually think this is going to be a replay of the 1st match, but the fact that MAB is coming from a loss gives him more reasons to make this competitive and even inspire him to pull off a victory.

Thought as you say, it is very unlikely, which I share the view also.

I am going to see this to gauge what Pac can do and how he can do it. If he is still sharp and still lethal with his combinations, as much as to see MAB give us his swan song.

Guzman and Soto will probably happen also. Who are you going to pick there?

I know you are not that sold on Guzman but after JMM and his team skipped the offer for a unification title fight, do you now see him as a potential threat now?:thumbsup

You know what, I think Guzman has the skills and the chin to be a good contender though I feel his stamina is not ar par with the elites.

I like Soto over Guzman. He's a strong willed and more complete package imo.


I dont view Guzman as better or worse for the JMM team to not have took them at their offer.
The bottom line is that JMM will get paid the same whether he fights Juarez or Guzman.
Naturally Guzman's slicker style would present more problems to a counterpuncher like JMM.

Guzman is a fighter for JMM to fight, after he's through with the likes of Pac, Soto, and maybe even Valero.
Nobody likes fighing slicksters, so at this point, as long as their are other viable candidates to fight, why the hell get involved fighting a fighter who will likely stall a fight.

[Morrissey]

I like Soto over Guzman. He's a strong willed and more complete package imo.


I dont view Guzman as better or worse for the JMM team to not have took them at their offer.
The bottom line is that JMM will get paid the same whether he fights Juarez or Guzman.
Naturally Guzman's slicker style would present more problems to a counterpuncher like JMM.

Guzman is a fighter for JMM to fight, after he's through with the likes of Pac, Soto, and maybe even Valero.
Nobody likes fighing slicksters, so at this point, as long as their are other viable candidates to fight, why the hell get involved fighting a fighter who will likely stall a fight.

I actually don't see it as ducking, but more on high risk, low reward fight for JMM, and can understand it as it seems he will be the next sure one to have a big payday with Pac after MAB, and to settle the bad blood btween them, and you do not want to lose that opportunity.

I have not seen a lot of Soto fights but I think he was the one who first beat Rocky, who is a heavy puncher so looks to have a good boxing skill set and with decent pop to hurt anyone. He also looks big for his size. I am not yet decided on this fight.

ANyway, JMM should box from the outside against Rocky or else, the latter might slip some of those heavy bombs inside which I feel can raelly hurt him. Juarez may be slow but he is a legit threat in terms of his KO power.

[Thinman]

Hearns and Arguello's right hands were lethal, that would be asking an awful lot of MAB!

MAB just needs to shoot out a straight potent enough right to keep Pac honest and offbalance.

Forget it Thinman, a Hearns or Arguello type with lethal rights would be Pac's worst nightmare!

Maybe I went overboard.....forgive me for that. I know what you mean...I understand very well your point, but I think he better brings with him a decent right hand to keep Pac honest....otherwise, I don't think he will make it to round 12.

I would like to ask you a question.... Do you think that MAB have problems with southpaws?

[Chert]

mab does seem to have probs w/ southpaws.

this fight is certainly not a waste of time. revenge is a great motivator and drives people to perform well beyond their current capabilities. mab is certainly past his prime but he's definitely not shot yet as evidence by his performance vs. jmm. if mab was shot, jmm should've laid him out and not just win via a close decision.

[divac]

I actually don't see it as ducking, but more on high risk, low reward fight for JMM, and can understand it as it seems he will be the next sure one to have a big payday with Pac after MAB, and to settle the bad blood btween them, and you do not want to lose that opportunity.

I have not seen a lot of Soto fights but I think he was the one who first beat Rocky, who is a heavy puncher so looks to have a good boxing skill set and with decent pop to hurt anyone. He also looks big for his size. I am not yet decided on this fight.

ANyway, JMM should box from the outside against Rocky or else, the latter might slip some of those heavy bombs inside which I feel can raelly hurt him. Juarez may be slow but he is a legit threat in terms of his KO power.

Juarez certainly has some pop, but believe me Morrissey, he's taylor made for JMM.
Juarez bends over a tad to unleash power. JMM will go uppercut happy to counteract Juarez trying to get on the inside.
I see Juarez getting completely busted up and stopped probably in rounds 8-10!

Juarez has pop, but he does'nt have bonecrunching pop to stand a real chance!

[divac]

Maybe I went overboard.....forgive me for that. I know what you mean...I understand very well your point, but I think he better brings with him a decent right hand to keep Pac honest....otherwise, I don't think he will make it to round 12.

I would like to ask you a question.... Do you think that MAB have problems with southpaws?Except for Pac, I have'nt noticed MAB have problems with southpaws.

Fighting vs a conventional stance is always easier of course, but MAB did well vs Enrique Sanchez, Kevin Kelley, and Prince Hamed who were all soutpaws.

Is there any particular fight besides Pac that you know of that MAB had trouble in?

[Mind Reader]

It's not a waste of time... Barrera is one of my favorite fighters and I want to see if he can get refocused and win the fight. Although I would pick Pac to win, im still excited and guarentee a closer fight.

[Thinman]

Except for Pac, I have'nt noticed MAB have problems with southpaws.

Fighting vs a conventional stance is always easier of course, but MAB did well vs Enrique Sanchez, Kevin Kelley, and Prince Hamed who were all soutpaws.

Is there any particular fight besides Pac that you know of that MAB had trouble in?

You are right, I forgot about Hamed and Kelley completely :patsch . I shouldn't be drinkin and typing. I think the best question is why did MAB have problems with Pac? Hamed was fast and also had power as Pac....what was exactly the problem??

I have watched the fight a couple of times and I think was more about Pac not allowing MAB to fight his fight. Hamed did not pressure MAB the way Pac did....and probably MAB was not expecting that.

Many people might call me crazy, but I think that MAB wil fight better this time and if he doesn't go down in any round he might win by decission, however, the question mark is....can he do it? This fight could end up like ODLH against Chavez II unless MAB can beat father time.

[divac]

You are right, I forgot about Hamed and Kelley completely :patsch . I shouldn't be drinkin and typing. I think the best question is why did MAB have problems with Pac? Hamed was fast and also had power as Pac....what was exactly the problem??

I have watched the fight a couple of times and I think was more about Pac not allowing MAB to fight his fight. Hamed did not pressure MAB the way Pac did....and probably MAB was not expecting that.

Many people might call me crazy, but I think that MAB wil fight better this time and if he doesn't go down in any round he might win by decission, however, the question mark is....can he do it? This fight could end up like ODLH against Chavez II unless MAB can beat father time.

Hamed was'nt really a pressure fighter, he relied more on quickness to get off an explosive shot.
Pac is alot more active with his hands than Hamed who often times was one shot happy.
Pac imo was alot faster in throwing combos!

[valdez]

I hope Barrera beats his ass..

[Thinman]

Hamed was'nt really a pressure fighter, he relied more on quickness to get off an explosive shot.
Pac is alot more active with his hands than Hamed who often times was one shot happy.
Pac imo was alot faster in throwing combos!

Very true. Hamed was a type boxer that waited up to certain point for his opponents to through the first shot and then he woud move and counter accordinly to his style, and throw fast combos expecting you to go down.

[psychopath]

Barrera is coming of a close loss to JMM which really coulda gone his way, Pac i have no doubts is setting his sights on Marquez so the logical piece of buisness for the winner is a rematch with JMM, Barrera can not be counted out of this fight il Believe Barrera hasnt got a chance when i see what hes like in the fight i think we have learnt never to write him of.

Not only that . . . the bigger reason is that both fighters have something to validate against each other.

MAB said he was not himself that night . . . and PAC said he wanted to prove it's not a fluke. The result of this fight should put a closure to all these talks.

[koko of phil]

Not only that . . . the bigger reason is that both fighters have something to validate against each other.

MAB said he was not himself that night . . . and PAC said he wanted to prove it's not a fluke. The result of this fight should put a closure to all these talks.

Amen. :good

[MacManJr.]

I hope it's a good fight for 11 rounds then Pac lays him out cold in the 12th!

[the_what]

Both Pacman/MAB and JMM/Juarez are a waste of time. You have fighters like Soto, Guzman, and Valero out there waiting for a shot. And you have the big 3 of the division playing musical chairs with each other.

[divac]

Both Pacman/MAB and JMM/Juarez are a waste of time. You have fighters like Soto, Guzman, and Valero out there waiting for a shot. And you have the big 3 of the division playing musical chairs with each other.

Is'nt that the same with every division though?

Its the least risk money fights that get made, and the rest of the true contenders who want to fight the champions are left scrambling and avoiding eachother because they dont want to lose their place in contention for a world title.

Boxing has always been a mess like that, particularly now that there are so many belts in each weight division.
Champions who dont want to fight the #1 contender often times find themselves dumping that orginizations title belt (especially when the champ holds multiple title belts) and fighting who ever he damn pleases.

Even such a respected fighter like Barrera, dumped the title he won from Erik Morales in their 2nd fight, because the #1 contender coming up would be JMM.
The JMM-MAB fight could have been made eons ago, but fighters like MAB dumped belts in the waist basket to avoid such confrontations.

Thats boxing, with so many title belts to go around, champions are not afraid to dump their title belts, knowing that winning another with another orginization with a less riskier opponent, is his at his asking!:?