lets talk about chris "rapid fire" byrd

[CottoDaBodykill]

as we all know i am a flint native ...and would like to know what the general idea of this fighter was when he came out of the olympics and became a pro

[zadfrak]

There was some interest in the guy but nobody really understood why he was going up in weight at the time. He was in shape and Iguess I never saw the logic in him skyrocketing up a few divisions. To show his pedigree, he did terrific as a heavy but it's tough selling tickets when you don't get ko's. he was fortunate he came along when he did when there was USA cable televising fights---today he'd be an unkown.

[lefthook31]

Byrd was a very slick fighter, and coming up from middleweight to hold and defend the title was impressive in my mind. He took on some big punchers and was willing to fight anyone. It took a very quick fighter to beat him, and I believe Lennox Lewis was a hyprocrite for dumping his IBF belt and not fighting him after accusing guys like Bowe and Tyson for avoiding him. Regardless, of what anyone says about the fight not being box office enough, I believe Lewis would have had a tough time with Byrd at that point in time, and I think Emanuel Steward felt the same way.

[Russell]

One of the most underappreciated fighters of recent years.

I feel much like Jimmy Young his time will come in the following few decades.

[janitor]

Byrd is a fighter that I have a lot of respect for as a student of boxing history.

He was esentialy a light heavyweight with modest power who chose to step up to fight the top heavyweights of his day in an era when a heavyweight meant a big big man.

The guy has a streak of Sam Langford in him somwhere.

[ChrisPontius]

and I believe Lennox Lewis was a hyprocrite for dumping his IBF belt and not fighting him after accusing guys like Bowe and Tyson for avoiding him.

Really? Wlad beat the living shit out of him knocking him down twice, and he's very similar to Lewis in style and size. The big punching heavyweights like Tyson and Vitali, who Lewis fought, were much bigger threats and equally high ranked.

By contrast, Bowe fought Jesse freaking Fergusson to avoid Lewis and Tyson fought Seldon... need i say more?

[CottoDaBodykill]

Really? Wlad beat the living shit out of him knocking him down twice, and he's very similar to Lewis in style and size. The big punching heavyweights like Tyson and Vitali, who Lewis fought, were much bigger threats and equally high ranked.

By contrast, Bowe fought Jesse freaking Fergusson to avoid Lewis and Tyson fought Seldon... need i say more?it's still hipocritical to do something you accuse others of doing to you

[ChrisPontius]

it's still hipocritical to do something you accuse others of doing to you

What Bowe and Tyson did was fight soft touches to avoid a legit threat [Lewis] who would also make for one hell of an exciting fight.

What Lewis did was make a Legacy fight (Tyson) and another dangerous title defence against Vitali Klitschko. Tell me how not fighting a feather fisted counterpuncher who was already shut out by a very similar boxer in Wlad, while taking on huge punchers who, unlike Byrd, make for a sell-able fight, is similar to what Bowe and Tyson did?

[Russell]

What Bowe and Tyson did was fight soft touches to avoid a legit threat [Lewis] who would also make for one hell of an exciting fight.

What Lewis did was make a Legacy fight (Tyson) and another dangerous title defence against Vitali Klitschko. Tell me how not fighting a feather fisted counterpuncher who was already shut out by a very similar boxer in Wlad, while taking on huge punchers who, unlike Byrd, make for a sell-able fight, is similar to what Bowe and Tyson did?

You know what Occasio managed against Lewis, yeah?

[mr. magoo]

One of the most underappreciated fighters of recent years.

I feel much like Jimmy Young his time will come in the following few decades.

only time will Russel, but frankly I have my doubts. The advantage that Jimmy Young had, was fighting in a far more charismatic era. Young's name is commonly associated with the Ali's, Foremans, Nortons, Lyles and Shavers. Byrd had good fights against Tua, Golata and Vitali, but the charisma simply isn't there. He might have had a chance if he had won his battles with the Klitschko bros as well as facing more names like Lewis, Tyson and even a younger version of Holy.

[Russell]

True boxing fans don't need a charisma to acknowledge that someone is a damned good fighter.

[ChrisPontius]

You know what Occasio managed against Lewis, yeah?


What, losing to a 10 fight Lewis?


only time will Russel, but frankly I have my doubts. The advantage that Jimmy Young had, was fighting in a far more charismatic era. Young's name is commonly associated with the Ali's, Foremans, Nortons, Lyles and Shavers. Byrd had good fights against Tua, Golata and Vitali, but the charisma simply isn't there. He might have had a chance if he had won his battles with the Klitschko bros as well as facing more names like Lewis, Tyson and even a younger version of Holy.

Young, charismatic? I wasn't around during the mid to late 70's so i hope someone can expand on this, but my perception is that he was considered rather boring instead of the skilled boxer that we now, here, see him to be. I wouldn't be surprised if lack of ring-charisma was one of the reasons he got shafted in so many decisions, i.e. the Ali, Shavers II and Norton bouts.

[Russell]

Yeah, and making Lennox look terrible in the process.

Byrd was 10 times the fighter Ossie was.

[ChrisPontius]

Lewis was green as grass at that time, and won the fight. But if you believe Byrd is a bigger threat to Lewis than Tyson and Klitschko were, then more power to you. :lol:

[lefthook31]

What Bowe and Tyson did was fight soft touches to avoid a legit threat [Lewis] who would also make for one hell of an exciting fight.

What Lewis did was make a Legacy fight (Tyson) and another dangerous title defence against Vitali Klitschko. Tell me how not fighting a feather fisted counterpuncher who was already shut out by a very similar boxer in Wlad, while taking on huge punchers who, unlike Byrd, make for a sell-able fight, is similar to what Bowe and Tyson did?
Styles make fights. Wlad is a lot quicker with his jab than Lewis was with his so I think Lewis would have had problems with Byrd. I even asked Steward one time about it and he told me he never liked that fight for Lennox because of how awkward Chris was.

[mr. magoo]

What, losing to a 10 fight Lewis?




Young, charismatic? I wasn't around during the mid to late 70's so i hope someone can expand on this, but my perception is that he was considered rather boring instead of the skilled boxer that we now, here, see him to be. I wouldn't be surprised if lack of ring-charisma was one of the reasons he got shafted in so many decisions, i.e. the Ali, Shavers II and Norton bouts.

That's not what I meant. I am claiming that because his name is ASSOCIATED with more charismatic personalities that his memory has a better chance of surviving the test of time.

[lefthook31]

Lewis was green as grass at that time, and won the fight. But if you believe Byrd is a bigger threat to Lewis than Tyson and Klitschko were, then more power to you. :lol:

Tyson was no threat to Lewis at that time. Im not saying Byrd would knock him out, but he certainly had the ability to make guys look very bad. Personally I think John Ruiz and Chris Byrd at that time had more of a chance to make Lewis look bad than Klitschko and Tyson. Their styles are horrible to fight against. Tyson came right at you, and Klitschko was thought to fall apart when the fight was taken to him which had been the case with both brothers in the past and the reason Lewis fought out of character, but effectively in that fight.

[The Kurgan]

Tyson was no threat to Lewis at that time.

I think that's rather silly, considering that Tyson was (a) faster than Rahman, (b) a heavier puncher than Rahman and (c) more skilled that Rahman, even in 2002. Tyson at that point hadn't lost in his three year comeback and -contrary to the opinion of some at the time- had beaten some good boxers.

Certainly, at the time, everyone thought that Tyson was a threat and that Byrd was a non-entity who would pose no problems for Lewis, considering that Wlad was considered a lesser version of Lewis.

Im not saying Byrd would knock him out, but he certainly had the ability to make guys look very bad. Personally I think John Ruiz and Chris Byrd at that time had more of a chance to make Lewis look bad than Klitschko and Tyson. Their styles are horrible to fight against. Tyson came right at you, and Klitschko was thought to fall apart when the fight was taken to him which had been the case with both brothers in the past and the reason Lewis fought out of character, but effectively in that fight.

No-one ever beat Lewis on points and no-one who tried to outbox him even came close. Ruiz's chin would be in trouble against Lewis and Byrd, as has been stated (and ignored) on multiple occasions in this thread, lost to a green Wladimir Klitschko.

As for Vitali, he wasn't THAT underrated in 2003. People knew he could punch and that he was very big and strong, and that he'd been beating Byrd until the infamous quitting (which was what most people held against him) in the 9th. Looking back, I can't see how one can say that Vitali's style was any easier to face than Ruiz's or Byrd's.

Trying to spin Ruiz and Byrd into superior challengers to Tyson and Klitschko is revisionist in the extreme. Kirk Johnson was also a bigger challenge in 2002-2003 than Ruiz or Byrd.

[lefthook31]

I think that's rather silly, considering that Tyson was (a) faster than Rahman, (b) a heavier puncher than Rahman and (c) more skilled that Rahman, even in 2002. Tyson at that point hadn't lost in his three year comeback and -contrary to the opinion of some at the time- had beaten some good boxers.

Certainly, at the time, everyone thought that Tyson was a threat and that Byrd was a non-entity who would pose no problems for Lewis, considering that Wlad was considered a lesser version of Lewis.



No-one ever beat Lewis on points and no-one who tried to outbox him even came close. Ruiz's chin would be in trouble against Lewis and Byrd, as has been stated (and ignored) on multiple occasions in this thread, lost to a green Wladimir Klitschko.

As for Vitali, he wasn't THAT underrated in 2003. People knew he could punch and that he was very big and strong, and that he'd been beating Byrd until the infamous quitting (which was what most people held against him) in the 9th. Looking back, I can't see how one can say that Vitali's style was any easier to face than Ruiz's or Byrd's.

Trying to spin Ruiz and Byrd into superior challengers to Tyson and Klitschko is revisionist in the extreme. Kirk Johnson was also a bigger challenge in 2002-2003 than Ruiz or Byrd.
Well I disagree, (Ruiz beat Johnson in 2002). First of all Tyson was very inconsistent in his comeback. There was in fact a time when I thought Tyson was as ready as he could be for Lewis. That was in 2000, starting with the Francis fight, then his blowout of Savarese and then Golota. He was staying active, his weight was in check, and he was progressing up in talent. At that point, I felt Tyson would have been a real threat to win the title. Then he takes a year off, comes in horribly out of shape for Nielson, dumps Tommy Brooks, who was doing an excellent job for him, and moves his training camp to Hawaii to train for Lewis. He brings in Panama Lewis and Ronnie Shields who he had never worked with, there was pictures of Tyson smoking pot on the beach, taking advantage of an eldery Wal Mart worker, and you just knew the train was off the tracks, because deep down Tyson didnt want that fight, he was defeated when it was signed.
As far as Byrd and Ruiz, it was a common thought brought about mostly by HBO and Emanuel Steward, that both were terrible fighters and could easily be beaten by the top guys, but one by one, both those guys were knocking them off. First was Ruiz, beating down Kirk Johnson, and Byrd beating Tua, definitely earning their shots. Problem is HBO and Steward wanted money fights, and those fights didnt cut it. Too much risk for too little reward.
I think its fair to say that Lewis never faced anyone like Byrd or Ruiz, so we dont know how he would have reacted against them. Ruiz was frustratingly hard to hit, and annoying with his grappling style. He gave Holyfield fits, beat Johnson, Rahman, and quite a few good fighters in his own right.
As far as Vitali, I think it was also the belief of many he wasnt really prepared to fight a fighter of the caliber of Lewis. He had quit against Byrd, and really hadnt faced any other real threat in his career to shpw his merit. At that point both brothers believed quitting when the going got tough was acceptable in championship boxing. If you really read into his record, it wasnt that impressive at that time in my opinion. Bottom line is, Lewis did the very thing he accused Bowe and Tyson doing to him. Part of it I believe was the difficulty of the fight, and part of it was the monetary factor.
Overall I believe Ruiz and Byrd would have been much more difficult fights for Lewis than Vitali and Tyson.

[lefthook31]

I think that's rather silly, considering that Tyson was (a) faster than Rahman, (b) a heavier puncher than Rahman and (c) more skilled that Rahman, even in 2002. Tyson at that point hadn't lost in his three year comeback and -contrary to the opinion of some at the time- had beaten some good boxers.

Certainly, at the time, everyone thought that Tyson was a threat and that Byrd was a non-entity who would pose no problems for Lewis, considering that Wlad was considered a lesser version of Lewis.



No-one ever beat Lewis on points and no-one who tried to outbox him even came close. Ruiz's chin would be in trouble against Lewis and Byrd, as has been stated (and ignored) on multiple occasions in this thread, lost to a green Wladimir Klitschko.

As for Vitali, he wasn't THAT underrated in 2003. People knew he could punch and that he was very big and strong, and that he'd been beating Byrd until the infamous quitting (which was what most people held against him) in the 9th. Looking back, I can't see how one can say that Vitali's style was any easier to face than Ruiz's or Byrd's.

Trying to spin Ruiz and Byrd into superior challengers to Tyson and Klitschko is revisionist in the extreme. Kirk Johnson was also a bigger challenge in 2002-2003 than Ruiz or Byrd.
Oh and by the way, Frank Bruno was ahead on points outboxing lewis before Lewis landed the monsters lefthook that changed the fight.

[The Kurgan]

Oh and by the way, Frank Bruno was ahead on points outboxing lewis before Lewis landed the monsters lefthook that changed the fight.

(1) I'm a Bruno fight. I know this and every single possible positive proposition that can be said about Frank Bruno.

(2) Bruno didn't come close to winning a decision: he was ahead after 6 rounds, nor more, no less.. Contrary to the modern belief held by some, there are more than 6 rounds in a 12 round fight.

[Bad_Intentions]

Byrd is a fighter that I have a lot of respect for as a student of boxing history.

He was esentialy a light heavyweight with modest power who chose to step up to fight the top heavyweights of his day in an era when a heavyweight meant a big big man.

The guy has a streak of Sam Langford in him somwhere.:good

[The Kurgan]

Well I disagree, (Ruiz beat Johnson in 2002).

Come on.

First of all Tyson was very inconsistent in his comeback. There was in fact a time when I thought Tyson was as ready as he could be for Lewis. That was in 2000, starting with the Francis fight, then his blowout of Savarese and then Golota. He was staying active, his weight was in check, and he was progressing up in talent. At that point, I felt Tyson would have been a real threat to win the title. Then he takes a year off, comes in horribly out of shape for Nielson, dumps Tommy Brooks, who was doing an excellent job for him, and moves his training camp to Hawaii to train for Lewis. He brings in Panama Lewis and Ronnie Shields who he had never worked with, there was pictures of Tyson smoking pot on the beach, taking advantage of an eldery Wal Mart worker, and you just knew the train was off the tracks, because deep down Tyson didnt want that fight, he was defeated when it was signed.

Compare Tyson against Lewis and Rahman against Lewis. You can see that all the statements I made held. Lewis won ONLY due to his being well-prepared; if he hadn't been well-prepared, Tyson would have smoked him.

As far as Byrd and Ruiz, it was a common thought brought about mostly by HBO and Emanuel Steward, that both were terrible fighters and could easily be beaten by the top guys, but one by one, both those guys were knocking them off.

Ruiz and Byrd haven't knocked anyone off since the 1990s.

First was Ruiz, beating down Kirk Johnson,

Stop it.

and Byrd beating Tua, definitely earning their shots. Problem is HBO and Steward wanted money fights, and those fights didnt cut it. Too much risk for too little reward.

Lewis was very close to retiring after the Tyson fight; there was a huge amount of speculation about whether he would retire or carry on. When he did, he picked Kirk Johnson, who was widely considered to be a better opponent than Byrd and a much bigger threat than Byrd. One beat-down that DID occur was Wlad vs. Byrd, on the basis of which most people concluded that Byrd couldn't beat tall boxers; some people were using that fight for their basis for McCline being favoured over Byrd.

I think its fair to say that Lewis never faced anyone like Byrd or Ruiz, so we dont know how he would have reacted against them. Ruiz was frustratingly hard to hit, and annoying with his grappling style. He gave Holyfield fits, beat Johnson, Rahman, and quite a few good fighters in his own right.

All we can say about Ruiz is that the closest boxer to Lewis that he fought (Golota) dumped him on his ass twice and most feel won against him and would have dominated him totally if Golota's loser's spirit hadn't kicked in after five rounds. Ruiz was widely considered to be the worst champion in heavyweight history in 2002-2003.

As far as Vitali, I think it was also the belief of many he wasnt really prepared to fight a fighter of the caliber of Lewis. He had quit against Byrd, and really hadnt faced any other real threat in his career to shpw his merit. At that point both brothers believed quitting when the going got tough was acceptable in championship boxing. If you really read into his record, it wasnt that impressive at that time in my opinion. Bottom line is, Lewis did the very thing he accused Bowe and Tyson doing to him. Part of it I believe was the difficulty of the fight, and part of it was the monetary factor.

Vitali was an extremely dangerous late substitute. If Lewis was primarily interested in avoiding difficult fights at that stage, he wouldn't have fought Vitali. Lewis's aim, at that, time, was clearly to have meaningful fights.

Overall I believe Ruiz and Byrd would have been much more difficult fights for Lewis than Vitali and Tyson.

What would Ruiz or Byrd bring to the table that either (1) had a track record of troubling Lewis or (2) would at least be something very new, aside from Byrd's southpaw stance?

[Muchmoore]

Overall I believe Ruiz and Byrd would have been much more difficult fights for Lewis than Vitali and Tyson.

No offense but that's just wrong.

[The Wanderer]

I was always a bit fond of Byrd... in the 90s I used to watch him on Tuesday night fights, and at the time aside from the occasional bit on the fledgling Classic Sports or later when HBO first started Boxing After Dark, that was where I was getting most of my exposure to boxing.

Byrd was certainly no KO artist, but he still knew how to put on a good show, and it was pretty obvious that he was head and shoulders above most of the guys he was fighting. He was slick, and smart, and moved beautifully defensively, leaving most opponents befuddled.

Still, it was also obvious that he was often outgunned in terms of punching power by even the mediocre opponents he faced, which made some of his matches feel like walking a tightrope: it doesn't matter how far along you've made it, if you fall at any point, it's still a fall. (This isn't helped by the fact that as intelligent as he could be in the ring, Byrd doesn't always fight smart; his 2006 rematch with Wlad was the sort of fight that put a slightly sick feeling in my stomach, especially with Byrd marching straight into the bigger man).

If he was outgunned before, the increase in the superheavyweight presence in the division at the end of the 90s/start of the 2000s really made things impossible for him. It's pretty obvious in his fights against the Klits that Byrd had no answers at all to solve the huge differences in size and reach. Byrd could outsmart or outmove a lot of heavyweights, but not ones with that sort of build and that jab to keep him frustrated. (And no way in hell would he have done any better against Lewis, either). It reinforced the fact that Byrd really should have been fighting at lightheavyweight or cruiserweight during his career.

[lefthook31]

No offense but that's just wrong.

None taken. Thats why this is a forum, we can all express our opinions. Again I feel it was the general consensus view that they were both non threats. The power of the media was strong. Larry Mercants constant rants of his hatred of Ruiz all during the fight between Ruiz and Johnson, as Ruiz took him apart, frustrated him and came very close to knocking him out before Johnson decided to foul out. The general public applauded Lewis for taking on Vitali over Ruiz or Byrd, but I was always critical of it. I wanted to see how Lewis would deal with Ruiz or Byrds style.
Im not saying Byrd or Ruiz would have beaten Lewis, but at that time, I felt they would pose difficult fights for Lewis, and really didnt feel he would have any problem with Johnson or Vitali for sure. Byrd was the mandatory challenger, regardless of where Lewis was in his career, and I just felt it was hyprocritical of Lewis to duck him after spending a good part of his career being shut out of the big time in America for having the same thing happen to him.

[lefthook31]

Come on.



Compare Tyson against Lewis and Rahman against Lewis. You can see that all the statements I made held. Lewis won ONLY due to his being well-prepared; if he hadn't been well-prepared, Tyson would have smoked him.



Ruiz and Byrd haven't knocked anyone off since the 1990s.



Stop it.



Lewis was very close to retiring after the Tyson fight; there was a huge amount of speculation about whether he would retire or carry on. When he did, he picked Kirk Johnson, who was widely considered to be a better opponent than Byrd and a much bigger threat than Byrd. One beat-down that DID occur was Wlad vs. Byrd, on the basis of which most people concluded that Byrd couldn't beat tall boxers; some people were using that fight for their basis for McCline being favoured over Byrd.



All we can say about Ruiz is that the closest boxer to Lewis that he fought (Golota) dumped him on his ass twice and most feel won against him and would have dominated him totally if Golota's loser's spirit hadn't kicked in after five rounds. Ruiz was widely considered to be the worst champion in heavyweight history in 2002-2003.



Vitali was an extremely dangerous late substitute. If Lewis was primarily interested in avoiding difficult fights at that stage, he wouldn't have fought Vitali. Lewis's aim, at that, time, was clearly to have meaningful fights.



What would Ruiz or Byrd bring to the table that either (1) had a track record of troubling Lewis or (2) would at least be something very new, aside from Byrd's southpaw stance?
Ruiz was very quick at jabbing and getting on the inside, and frustrating his opponent. You saw him take some decent boxers out of their game. Lewis was not comfortable on the inside, and in grappling fights. You saw it in the Mercer fight. Byrd was also good at getting inside and making his opponents miss. He had Ibeabuchi very frustrated before getting caught by a very fast combination. Ike was very quick. Again Im not saying they would beat him, and I would have still favored Lewis in both fights, but it was my belief at that time that both of those fighters would have posed problems for Lewis at that time, because 1, Lewis was slowing down and would have had a hard time catching up to Byrd, who was fighting well at that time, and 2, with Ruiz he would have most likely gotten dragged into an ugly grappling fight with him on the inside, and that was something he wasnt comfortable with. He wouldnt have been able to fight those fights like the Tyson and Vitali fights, on his terms.

[gregor]

What Lewis did was make a Legacy fight (Tyson) and another dangerous title defence against Vitali Klitschko.
For the record, I completely agree with you Lewis was not ducking Byrd. There was no danger for LL in fighting Byrd, and probably no money either.

Still, calling fight with Tyson "Legacy fight" is an overstatement. LL was just in time to defeat him before Williams and McBride, and you could probably . Also, you make it sound like LL chosed himself dangerous opponent in Vitali, while the true is that he fought Klitschko only because Kirk Johnson pulled out of the fight.

Anyway, I liked prime Byrd's fights, like the ones against Ike or Tua. No one made Tua look worse than him (well, some did, but only for a couple of rounds).

However, his style relied so much on speed and reflexes it was clear he can't go on like Hopkins. He was slowly losing his speed already few years ago, although his reign was extended by some lucky decisions (Golota, Oquendo).

[ChrisPontius]

For the record, I completely agree with you Lewis was not ducking Byrd. There was no danger for LL in fighting Byrd, and probably no money either.

Still, calling fight with Tyson "Legacy fight" is an overstatement. LL was just in time to defeat him before Williams and McBride, and you could probably . Also, you make it sound like LL chosed himself dangerous opponent in Vitali, while the true is that he fought Klitschko only because Kirk Johnson pulled out of the fight.

Anyway, I liked prime Byrd's fights, like the ones against Ike or Tua. No one made Tua look worse than him (well, some did, but only for a couple of rounds).

However, his style relied so much on speed and reflexes it was clear he can't go on like Hopkins. He was slowly losing his speed already few years ago, although his reign was extended by some lucky decisions (Golota, Oquendo).

I agree that the Tyson fight is not really what seals his legacy for ME, but it was for the public. And if he'd never fought Tyson, the scanting of him avoiding Tyson would've never ended, so he stopped that myth right there and then. Lewis never got more exposure to the general public than during the Tyson fight. Nobody gave a fuck about him fighting Byrd or Ruiz.

[mr. magoo]

Nobody gave a fuck about him fighting Byrd or Ruiz.


Agreed,

I for one can testify that I had no interest in seeing either of those fights.

[Bummy Davis]

Byrd was a good fighter and a boxing southpaw, it was when he wanted to slug that he got beat ( I thought he lost to Oquendo and the Golota fight was tight) but Byrd would have been a pretty big heavy in the 70's and even the 80's.....but even though he performed for a longer time than Young at top level, he was not at the level of Young at Jimmy's best and neither of those men had the slickness, power of JJWalcott or Charles....still they beat many a Big man with there grit and slickness....a classic was Byrd/Tua

[la-califa]

Had all the speed & talent to be a major success. The only drawback is he couldn't dent an egg! No power whatsoever for the heavyweight division.

[godking]

Tyson was no threat to Lewis at that time. Im not saying Byrd would knock him out, but he certainly had the ability to make guys look very bad. Personally I think John Ruiz and Chris Byrd at that time had more of a chance to make Lewis look bad than Klitschko and Tyson. Their styles are horrible to fight against. Tyson came right at you, and Klitschko was thought to fall apart when the fight was taken to him which had been the case with both brothers in the past and the reason Lewis fought out of character, but effectively in that fight.There are only two ways a Lewis fight ends for Byrd.

1 A dull 12 round decision loss for Byrd with Byrd catching a beating

2 A Lewis looking to end it fast destroys Byrd in the first 5 rounds.


Byrd got his ass kicked by a lesser version of Lewis with half the killer instinct

[lefthook31]

There are only two ways a Lewis fight ends for Byrd.

1 A dull 12 round decision loss for Byrd with Byrd catching a beating

2 A Lewis looking to end it fast destroys Byrd in the first 5 rounds.


Byrd got his ass kicked by a lesser version of Lewis with half the killer instinct

Boxing has some suprising endings at times, just ask Lennox Lewis himself. Byrd was slick, Lewis was slowing, things could have been vastly different. Personally I would have loved to see him face Byrd or Ruiz, just to see how he dealt with those ugly styles.

[Muchmoore]

Does anyone else find Byrd annoying as hell?Ike nearly took his head off with a left hand that made Byrd fall on his face and drool on himself and he gets up and starts bitching at the ref that it was a slip. He then falls over again after that because he's so out of it but complains again and when the fight got stopped had a temper tantrum :lol:
Hard to fault him too much for acting like that in that situation but he was pretty much always like that. His loud obnoxious wife is even worse.

It's amazing what he could do in the era of giants as a blown up LHW/CW though. Tough fighter too.

[NoCoolFool?]

Agreed,

I for one can testify that I had no interest in seeing either of those fights.

It was one of those situation where you totally understand Lewis for not wanting to fight Byrd.
To no fault to Byrd, It was just too little reward and too much downside. And by downside I don't mean a potential loss (I don't think anyone thought Lewis would lose to Byrd) - I mean time wasted, and even legacy tarnished. Nobody was taking Byrd as a legitmate threat to Lewis ... and it would be a hard fight to sell to the general public.
You can't compare Bowe and Lewis in this regard. Take away the belts, and Bowe and Lewis should still have fought. The belt is the only reason you can name for a Byrd and Lewis fight. Big difference.

I don't want to even discuss Ruiz. I am surprised that people do. He is one of those fighters whose record will grow in stature over time - and it is a shame, as it was a god-awful thing to live through as a fan.

[The Kurgan]

Ruiz was very quick at jabbing and getting on the inside, and frustrating his opponent. You saw him take some decent boxers out of their game. Lewis was not comfortable on the inside, and in grappling fights. You saw it in the Mercer fight.

Actually, the one time when Lewis seemed comfortable on the inside was when it came to grappling (and holding and hitting). Ruiz would basically be trying to create the same situation that Lewis tried to create on the inside. Ruiz did indeed take some decent boxers out of their game, but Lewis was much more than a decent boxer and his game (on the inside) wasn't too different from Ruiz's. As Lewis showed against Akinwande, he was quite comfortable letting his opponent grab on while he took round after round with his superior strength and activity.

Byrd was also good at getting inside and making his opponents miss. He had Ibeabuchi very frustrated before getting caught by a very fast combination. Ike was very quick.

That's still nothing new for Lewis, who was himself a very accurate puncher. Even when Lewis's accuracy dropped, his size tended to limit his opponent's workrate and his own workrate was such that he could be relatively inaccurate and still widely outland his opponent.

Again Im not saying they would beat him, and I would have still favored Lewis in both fights, but it was my belief at that time that both of those fighters would have posed problems for Lewis at that time, because 1, Lewis was slowing down and would have had a hard time catching up to Byrd, who was fighting well at that time,

Lewis wasn't THAT slow by that point, and at any rate he wasn't slow enough to warrant being worried by Byrd's speed.

and 2, with Ruiz he would have most likely gotten dragged into an ugly grappling fight with him on the inside, and that was something he wasnt comfortable with.

Ugly grappling was something Lewis was quite comfortable with, and if that's where Ruiz would try to win rounds (and it wound be the only place he could) he would just get locked up before he could do anything. You can't beat Lewis purely on the basis of infighting, because he was strong and big enough to dictate the nature of the action in close.

He wouldnt have been able to fight those fights like the Tyson and Vitali fights, on his terms.

It's odd that you talk about Ruiz trying to jab and get in close with Lewis and such a fight not being on Lewis's terms, then say that the Vitali fight WAS on Lewis's terms. Look at the pattern of the Vitali fight again: they throw at most three or four punches, then get tied up. Lewis has his most success when either uppercutting in close or hitting and holding. The thing that gave Lewis so many problems in the Vitali fight- Vitali's height advantage- isn't at all present in the case of Ruiz.

It is illogical to say that Lewis had his kind of fight against Vitali, but would be facing an entirely different and more difficult kind of fight against Ruiz.

[ChrisPontius]

Boxing has some suprising endings at times, just ask Lennox Lewis himself. Byrd was slick, Lewis was slowing, things could have been vastly different. Personally I would have loved to see him face Byrd or Ruiz, just to see how he dealt with those ugly styles.

Are you serious here? You seriously were more interested in seeing Lewis take on Byrd or Ruiz, both (especially Johnny boy) of whom were pretty unproven back then ?

[ChrisPontius]

Are you serious here? You seriously were more interested in seeing Lewis take on Byrd or Ruiz ( both, especially Johnny boy of whom were pretty unproven back then, rather than see Lewis fight Tyson and Klitschko ?

[gregor]

Boxing has some suprising endings at times, just ask Lennox Lewis himself. Byrd was slick, Lewis was slowing, things could have been vastly different. Personally I would have loved to see him face Byrd or Ruiz, just to see how he dealt with those ugly styles.

Byrd had almost no chance with someone who has serious height/reach advantage and just uses it (like Klitschko's or even Golota). He looked good against big guys who were stupid enough to chase him around the ring, and I doubt Lewis would do it.

I am not sure Ruiz hugging and holding would be very effective against LL either. LL was quite good in this himself, so I guess Ruiz could be the one who gets tired first when LL leans on him every time they clinch (like he did against Tyson or Holy II). The only good thing here is that probably we would get rid of Ruiz for some time, possibly in brutal fashion.

[sauhund II]

So a Byrd thread has turned now into a Lemmie nut hugging extravaganza............one thing for sure, Byrd certainly accomplished more than those two hopeless ham and eggers Rahman and McCall.....................whose only claim to fortune is .....well, we all know the answer. Byrd deserved a shot, IMO he would have lost in a competitve fight .

The most amusing part is that the huggers are talking up Tyson like he was worth a shit when he fought Lewis, lol, he entered training at 280 + pounds , hell ,even with his stunt at the press conference he could not buy himself enough time to get into fighting shape because in boxing terms he was gone beyond gone.

Byrd would have put up a FAR better performance than the shell of a shell Tyson.

[lefthook31]

Are you serious here? You seriously were more interested in seeing Lewis take on Byrd or Ruiz, both (especially Johnny boy) of whom were pretty unproven back then ?

Yeah I wanted to see how he dealt with Ruiz the most. If I had my choice, I would have wanted to see Lewis face Ruiz before he retired. I didnt care for Ruiz much, but he gave a lot of guys problems, and I just wanted to see how Lewis would deal with it. Sorry for disappointing everyone, but I knew Vitali was going to get beat down, even though he put up a better fight than I expected.

[janitor]

Are you serious here? You seriously were more interested in seeing Lewis take on Byrd or Ruiz ( both, especially Johnny boy of whom were pretty unproven back then, rather than see Lewis fight Tyson and Klitschko ?

It was his solemn duty as guardian of the integrity of the heavyweight division to do so.

No excuses for this wretched man please!

[gregor]

Byrd deserved a shot, IMO he would have lost in a competitve fight .

Byrd would have put up a FAR better performance than the shell of a shell Tyson.

Styles makes fights. Technically Byrd deserved a shot, but IMHO he would've lost badly in a boring fight. Tyson, shot as he was, at least had remote puncher chance, while you can see Byrd was going nowhere against big, skilled guys. Even past prime Golota with one hand should've decisioned him (OK, it wasn't prime Byrd either, but anyway I hope you see my point).

Klitschko's were just using jab and ocassional hook to keep him at the proper distance where he couldn't reach them. Those fights were pretty one-sided, even if Byrd won one. I think LL would fight him in similar fashion.

[lefthook31]

It was his solemn duty as guardian of the integrity of the heavyweight division to do so.

No excuses for this wretched man please!


Thats right especially when it happened to him twice! Hyprocrite! :hey

[emanuel_augustus]

I've always been a big fan of Byrd because I love great defensive fighters, of which he is one of the best.

The things that made Byrd a champion were his hand speed, southpaw awkwardness, and his tremendous head movement. By head movement, I don't just mean the ability to move his head to avoid punches, but also the ability to change the plane on which his head was, largely by bending his knees and twisting laterally constantly. When Byrd was at his absolute best he also added an element of lateral movement in the form of stepping around his opponent, for instance against Tua. IMO, Byrd didn't do enough of this in his career but often chose to sit in the pocket and counterpunch.

Byrd's best fights were against larger, slower men that let him stay in counterpuncher mode where his speed and slickness were most effectively utilized. For examples see his fights with Tua, Jimmy Thunder, Golota, and Jameel McCline.

Byrd had more trouble with two types of fighter: smaller, mobile fighters who would force Byrd to take the initiative and had the speed to at least not be completely overwhelmed by Byrd's sharpness and rangy fighters who made it tough to counter against. Chris was not comfortable dictating the forward geography of a fight and you could see he was not always comfortable when someone else fought a negative type fight against him. Examples are Mo Harris, DaVryll Williamson, and Fres Oquendo.

Both Klitschkos troubled Byrd just because of their tremendous reach, outstanding jabs, and larger physicality. Ibebuchi was also a big guy but fast and not as bothered by Byrd's speed.

To the Lennox Lewis sub-thread: I really think even a declining Lewis would have beaten Byrd just stylistically. Lewis had the height and reach and more importantly the jab. Byrd had a hard time when Wlad and Vitali were at range with finding the distance to counter off those jabs. When Byrd did slip and fall in to find the distance, both guys put something behind it. The only exception were say rounds 6-9 of the Vitali fight when Vitali's jab rate slowed down. You won't find a better long-range heavyweight fighter than Lennox Lewis and I think he takes a wide decision or maybe even stops Chris in 8 or 9.

To conclude, I do think Byrd was extremely under-appreciated solely because he wasn't a killer puncher. But for the fan of pure boxing, he was fun as heck to watch. I don't see many guys incorporating his style, particularly at heavyweight, and we might not see one for many years.

[Russell]

Great, great post Augustus.

How did you see Byrd's close fights going?

[emanuel_augustus]

I pretty much think most of the decisions were good.

Oquendo beat him, but it wasn't a blowout. 115-113, somewhere in there.

I thought he sneaked by Arthur Williams and Byrd was dropped in that fight. The Golota draw was a fair decision. I had Byrd over McCline too by a couple points.

[round15]

Chris Byrd vs Jimmy Young could either be a very boring contest or an exciting tactical match.

Byrd's strengths were fast hands and feet, and solid head movement, using the angles to set up his punches. What he didn't do was make his opponent pay after making them miss punches.

What happened to the proposed fight between Byrd and Jones Jr? Why didn't it happen? This could have been a good fight.