IF Taylor beats Pavlik what will your opinion be of him then?

[RAMPAGE0017]

Some of you might say " it depends on the manner which he wins " but what I want to know is.. if he just WINS the fight, will your opinion of Taylor change? If yes, then how so?

[AJAX]

if he wins another close boring disputed decision i will loose even more respect from him

[sues2nd]

If he knocks him out it will change big time, if he convincingly UD's him i'll think of him as no longer a regressd fighter, but if he gets a shit decision i'll hate him.

HATE HIM???

You know, I just dont get it. He doesnt write the judges cards. If you think he got three gifts so far (In the Hopkins fight, I had Bernard winning one and drawing another....and I the Wright fight a draw as well....but they were ALL close fights.), then hate the corruption of boxing...not the boxer.

To call the Hopkins fights and the Wright fights robberies or shit decisions is ridiculous anyway. THEY WERE CLOSE FIGHTS AGAINST ATG FIGHTERS!!!!! And this is coming from someone who had Taylor 0-1-2 in the three of them. But fights like Chavez - Whitaker, or Jones in the Olympics, or Whitaker - Ramirez....THESE are robberies, these were shit decisions. To lump the Taylor fights in with travesties like those, belittles the significance of how bad they really were.

Hell, for a guy who has fought the quality he has fought in his last 6 or 7, I am surprised ANYONE has anything against this guy personally. Add to the fact that he is a GREAT guy outside of the ring, I just dont get all of the hate.
























(wait a few, Amsterdam, Zakman, compukiller and the rest of the WE HATE JERMAINE TAYLOR CLUB will be here shortly!!!)

[Antwuan Maxx]

If he knocks him out it will change big time, if he convincingly UD's him i'll think of him as no longer a regressd fighter, but if he gets a shit decision i'll hate him.

Agreed 100%.

[McGrain]

I think he's taken on some of the best available. If he continues to win he will certainly win over the doubters.

[pipe wrenched]

if he wins, in any fashion whether it be close decision or KO I will have even more respect for the young man. Wright, Ouma, Spinks, Hopkins and Pavlik would be quite the impressive resume.

Indeed.:good

[box03]

Taylor wins close matches but you have to underline cause thats really all that should matter ali had alot of close matches in the 70s but he was never penalized for it ali is a legendary fighter and if taylor keeps winning against top opposition he might end his career in legendary status

[Danny Ocean]

If The Judges Gave Him A Gift Why Hate Him, He Doesnt Fill The Cards Out

[brooklyn1550]

If he wins impressively, I will thinkmore highly of him - especially a KO. A close/questionable decision win, and I still respect him, just not as much as a big KO or wide UD win.

[Imperial1]

He doesn't have to beat Pavlik to get respect from me he already gets it !!

Only a blind hater refuses to give the man his just due !

[Irländsk]

I already have great respect for him for fighting the best out there, and if he wins i'll have a little more, but i think he loses this one.

[Tuavale]

Re: IF Taylor beats Pavlik what will your opinion be of him then?
Some of you might say " it depends on the manner which he wins " but what I want to know is.. if he just WINS the fight, will your opinion of Taylor change? If yes, then how so?


Much better but it won't happen. :smoke

[Rollo]

If he wins a deserved but boring decision then there´s nothing we can do about it, but stop seeing his fights.

[IntentionalButt]

I'm deathly afraid of Taylor beating Pavlik, because it will add fuel to his hypers' flame and make them feel - and act - legitimized. Before the Miranda fight the Pavlik bandwagon was an itty bitty rickshaw, not the massive three-ring big-top it is today. Perception of him went from a moderately exciting prospect on the fringe of most people's awareness to some kind of monster overnight, simply for beating up another big punching up-and-comer who hardly put up a fight. If Taylor beats Pavlik, I give him no props - none. Pavlik did not suddenly become some unbeatable juggernaut just because he spanked an obedient puppy in Edison. During the Zertuche fight I thought the kid had lots of promise, but likewise lots of flaws and room for development. Nothing has really changed about him since then. And Taylor is still the same very athletically gifted but without-too-much-else-going-for-him fighter that he's always been. It's a pick'em. Of course I hope Taylor gets KTFO if only because his hype has been going on longer and louder, but I know Kelly's fans are going to get pretty obnoxious if he wins too. Neither of them is the savior of the middleweight division. Neither of them is as massive an accomplishment to beat for the other as the fans on both sides are going to make it seem.

[Mrboogie23]

I'm deathly afraid of Taylor beating Pavlik, because it will add fuel to his hypers' flame and make them feel - and act - legitimized. Before the Miranda fight the Pavlik bandwagon was an itty bitty rickshaw, not the massive three-ring big-top it is today. Perception of him went from a moderately exciting prospect on the fringe of most people's awareness to some kind of monster overnight, simply for beating up another big punching up-and-comer who hardly put up a fight. If Taylor beats Pavlik, I give him no props - none. Pavlik did not suddenly become some unbeatable juggernaut just because he spanked an obedient puppy in Edison. During the Zertuche fight I thought the kid had lots of promise, but likewise lots of flaws and room for development. Nothing has really changed about him since then. And Taylor is still the same very athletically gifted but without-too-much-else-going-for-him fighter that he's always been. It's a pick'em. Of course I hope Taylor gets KTFO if only because his hype has been going on longer and louder, but I know Kelly's fans are going to get pretty obnoxious if he wins too. Neither of them is the savior of the middleweight division. Neither of them is as massive an accomplishment to beat for the other as the fans on both sides are going to make it seem.


I dont understand this post. I just dont. Yes both fighters are flawed. Yes they have strengths and weaknesses. Isnt that what boxing is about?

Putting two men against each other in a ring and see who can capitalize on the others weaknesses?

On top of that, show me one fighter that doesnt have flaws? And I hate to keep saying the same fucking thing over and over and over but who is hyping Taylor? I'd say the vast majority want Taylor to get KOed.

[IntentionalButt]

I dont understand this post. I just dont. Yes both fighters are flawed. Yes they have strengths and weaknesses. Isnt that what boxing is about?

Putting two men against each other in a ring and see who can capitalize on the others weaknesses?

On top of that, show me one fighter that doesnt have flaws? And I hate to keep saying the same fucking thing over and over and over but who is hyping Taylor? I'd say the vast majority want Taylor to get KOed.
You kind of missed the point. Of course every fighter has flaws, that wasn't meant to be the focus of my post. It's pretty simple really. Neither one is as good as their hype = neither one deserves as much credit as they're inevitably going to get for winning = this fight isn't the one that 'answers all the questions about the division' = unless they both put on career-defining performances in a shocking FOTY there is no reason for my opinion of the victor to change radically.

[Lance_Uppercut]

...then hate the corruption of boxing...not the boxer.
....

Don't mean to chop up your post, but that's exactly right. ThHey hate Taylor because HBO is behind him hyping him up. They should boycott HBO if it's such a horrible network. STOP putting money into a network that FORCES :roll: judges to give decisions to their house fighter...

[Mrboogie23]

You kind of missed the point. Of course every fighter has flaws, that wasn't meant to be the focus of my post. It's pretty simple really. Neither one is as good as their hype = neither one deserves as much credit as they're inevitably going to get for winning = this fight isn't the one that 'answers all the questions about the division' = unless they both put on career-defining performances in a shocking FOTY there is no reason for my opinion of the victor to change radically.


So you dont feel Pavlik is a legit contender?

[Amsterdam]

If Taylor beats Pavlik CONVICINGLY, I don't mean recieving a dubious decision, I mean getting him clear, then I am wrong in my assessment of him and will admit it. I still will feel that he's ripe for the picking and over hyped, but some legitimacy of him will come into my viewpoint and because he would have proved to me that he has an okay chin and can adapt to pressure.

If he wins, I will draft a public apology thread for my extensive bashing of him, and I will do so because my assessment was off a bit and that would bring no legitimacy to the bashing train.

So he'll be cleared as legit from Amsterdam, the no. 1 Taylor hater.

See? I give him a chance.;)

... But if he loses by a one sided KO due to collapsing to pressure in a non-competitive fight like I am predicting, are the Taylor apologists going to admit that my assessment skills are top notch and not give me personal insults as backlash when I call out a hype job in the future?

[IntentionalButt]

All I'm saying is that regardless of titles, ring rankings, even resume - I don't regard these two as the best 160 lbers in the world at the moment. I think whoever comes out still undefeated is going to be catapulted alot further into stardom than the winner of this contest reasonably should.

[Mrboogie23]

If Taylor beats Pavlik CONVICINGLY, I don't mean recieving a dubious decision, I mean getting him clear, then I am wrong in my assessment of him and will admit it. I still will feel that he's ripe for the picking and over hyped, but some legitimacy of him will come into my viewpoint and because he would have proved to me that he has an okay chin and can adapt to pressure.

If he wins, I will draft a public apology thread for my extensive bashing of him, and I will do so because my assessment was off a bit and that would bring no legitimacy to the bashing train.

So he'll be cleared as legit from Amsterdam, the no. 1 Taylor hater.

See? I give him a chance.;)

... But if he loses by a one sided KO due to collapsing to pressure in a non-competitive fight like I am predicting, are the Taylor apologists going to admit that my assessment skills are top notch and not give me personal insults as backlash when I call out a hype job in the future?



I hope I'm not included in the "Taylor apologists" group. I've told you that its a winnable fight for both guys and a stoppage win for Pavlik is possible.

[IntentionalButt]

So you dont feel Pavlik is a legit contender?
Meh, he's still what he was during the Zertuche fight. An exciting prospect with just as much downside as up.

And I don't feel Taylor is necessarily a legit champ - still just a naturally very athletically gifted guy without a whole lot else going for him - which has been enough to allow him to win (or at least be competitive enough to get decisions) up until now. A lot of people are saying "oh, finally he steps up the competition" - eh, not that big a step up if you ask me. Sure Pavlik's much more dangerous than his last four opponents, but come on he isn't fighting the very best available. He could be taking on another titlist. :deal

[IntentionalButt]

Ams, don't tell me you're one of those so dazzled by the Miranda fight as to think Pavlik walks on water? I like the kid alot and am rooting for him, but beating Taylor won't make him the best middleweight, and beating him doesn't all by itself suddenly legitimize Taylor as the 160lb king.

[semichin]

If he wins impressively, I will thinkmore highly of him - especially a KO. A close/questionable decision win, and I still respect him, just not as much as a big KO or wide UD win.
:good

[AmazingHook]

No matter how you win....a win is a win. If he beats Pavlik then Taylor has beaten another top guy out there and people have to give him the respect he deserves.

[sues2nd]

If Taylor beats Pavlik CONVICINGLY, I don't mean recieving a dubious decision, I mean getting him clear, then I am wrong in my assessment of him and will admit it. I still will feel that he's ripe for the picking and over hyped, but some legitimacy of him will come into my viewpoint and because he would have proved to me that he has an okay chin and can adapt to pressure.

If he wins, I will draft a public apology thread for my extensive bashing of him, and I will do so because my assessment was off a bit and that would bring no legitimacy to the bashing train.

So he'll be cleared as legit from Amsterdam, the no. 1 Taylor hater.

See? I give him a chance.;)

... But if he loses by a one sided KO due to collapsing to pressure in a non-competitive fight like I am predicting, are the Taylor apologists going to admit that my assessment skills are top notch and not give me personal insults as backlash when I call out a hype job in the future?

Well, I consider myself more of a boxing fan in general than a Taylor apologyst. I mean, I do think he lost to Hopkins in the first fight (close but clear), I think he drew with him in the rematch (I could make more of an arguement for a Hop win than a Taylor one) and I feel he drew with Winky also (tho I wouldnt argue the decision going either way). I try to look at it unbiasedly....but I find myself constantly defending Taylor at every turn.

This is the way I see it....

1- Since winning the titles (regardless of how your scorecard looked) he has acted like a true champion, in and out of the ring. I mean, look at how some of these other "beltholders" act when not in the ring....Taylor holds himself with a class that many other fighters could learn from (Floyd Mayweather...I am looking in your direction).

2- After winning the Hopkins fights (the number 1 p4p fighter in the world), he went on to fight Winky Wright (top 5 p4p fighter in the world)...he got a draw and IMMEDIATELY wanted a rematch. He wasnt shying away from yet ANOTHER tough fight. Then he fights a former champion and a tough SOB in Ouma next as a FRIGGIN TUNE UP!!! Followed by a fight with a former undisputed champion and one of the best defensive fighters in boxing next (I think we can all agree Spinks is at least top 10...). And now he is taking on the biggest and toughest fighter at 160....

3- For that run of fights he gets flack for the fact that the first 3 fights were close. YET WE IGNORE THAT THEY WERE TWO OF THE BEST FIGHTERS ALIVE FOR GOD SAKES....OF COURSE THEY WOULD BE CLOSE!!!!. (and could we PLEASE stop calling these robberies and gifts....Chavez - Whitaker was a gift....Jones - Park Si-Hun was a gift....Taylor vs Hop and Winky were close fights....not gifts...it diminishes the severity of the others when we lump these in with those others....) Then he gets shit because he fought a smaller man in his TUNE UP, when most others fight SCRUBS as tune ups (Joe Calzaghe....I am looking in your direction)...even tho he shut the guy out. Then he gets shit for not dominating a top defensive fighter...who just HAPPENS to be a lefty....when other than one fight (Judah 2), NOONE has dominated Spinks.

None of the hate makes any sense. And if you are mad about the decisions..............HOW IS THAT TAYLORS FAULT???? Is his real name Duane Ford? Or Jim Lampley?

The guy should be praised. And after he wins a clear UD vs Pavlik (I think Kelly has a beard, so I cant see a KO), hopefully at least a few of you will take the mans route of giving him his due credit (and man up to your avatar bets....Am, Zak and compu with Taylor avatars....oh god I cant wait!!!!), instead of the pussy way by calling Pavlik a hype job.

[full-stop]

[Jinx]

Taylor can't afford another gift decision...but if it's an action fight(which it will be) he won't lose much stock...but i see Taylor winning decisively this time...

[curmudgeon]

if he just WINS the fight, will your opinion of Taylor change?

No it would not.

It will change if the loses - that would mean he ain't getting aby gifts anymore.


As much as I hate it I think he will dance away with an SD.

[runnynose]

And if you are mad about the decisions..............HOW IS THAT TAYLORS FAULT???? Is his real name Duane Ford? Or Jim Lampley?

[full-stop]

Also all his opponents' faults for not winning over him. :D

I neither root for nor hate Taylor, but I think Pavlik will wrest the title from him. :nono

[Club Fighter]

If taylor beats Pavlik . . . Bah, humbug.

[El Bombasto]

Since I expect him to beat Pavlik anyway, my opinion will remain unchanged.