Lonsdale Belt

[TommyV]

I've always wondered as I never actually found out, how does a fighter win one outright? It's a certain amount of defences right?

[LHL]

I think its 3 times. Think it used to be 5.

Tommy i have a question on the fight night thread could you answer it :think

[TommyV]

Cool I'll head over there now.

[GazOC]

I've always wondered as I never actually found out, how does a fighter win one outright? It's a certain amount of defences right?


I'm not sure. It used to be 3 wins in British title fights at one weight. It didn't matter if the wins were in challenges or defences, I think it's changed now though.

There was a thread on this while ago and there never was a "proper" answer to come out of it.

[LHL]

I'm not sure. It used to be 3 wins in British title fights at one weight. It didn't matter if the wins were in challenges or defences, I think it's changed now though.

There was a thread on this while ago and there never was a "proper" answer to come out of it.

Napa won his before the Euro title if i can remember rightly and that was his third defense of the title.

I say we watch someone carefully and find out how they are won.

Sky always say when they are fighting for it but for some reason i never listen to it pretty pissed off with myself now :lol:

[TommyV]

Cheers lads.

[LHL]

We can find out on saturday Appleby is in his 3rd brit title fight

[GazOC]

I'm pretty sure that winning a Brit title, defending it once, losing it and then winning again used to get a boxer a Lonsdale to keep.

3 wins in title fights at one weight no matter how it was achieved got the boxer the belt.


I''m not sure thats still the case though, it might be 2 defences or 3 consecutive wins..

[GazOC]

The BBBoC also used to give a Lonsdale for every 3 British title wins until Henry Cooper started collecting them for fun!! He's the only boxer to have owed 3 Lonsdale belts.

[TommyV]

The BBBoC also used to give a Lonsdale for every 3 British title wins until Henry Cooper started collecting them for fun!! He's the only boxer to have owed 3 Lonsdale belts.

Cooper was one of those sorts of fighters who'd get beat by the best around, and then regain his confidence by clearing out the domestic scene before trying his luck again.

[LHL]

The BBBoC also used to give a Lonsdale for every 3 British title wins until Henry Cooper started collecting them for fun!! He's the only boxer to have owed 3 Lonsdale belts.

Seems like a random thing to do. They must have been throwing them away back then :lol:

[GazOC]

Seems like a random thing to do. They must have been throwing them away back then :lol:

In those days the BBBof C were old men in suits, they had quite a few "funny" rules.

Another was that there could only be one major boxing card in London per month, so as soon as the Boards favorite promoters has promised to fill those slots the other promoters were fucked for that year.

This went on for years until Frank ****** came long and threatened to take the Board to court for restraint of trade and the Board caved in.

Franks a bit of a cunt but the BBBofC and Jarvis/Duff/Astaire were just as bad back in the 70s/ early 80s, they had a right little carve up going.

People forget that sometimes.....

[Beeston Brawler]

I would actually like to see the British title become more prominent..... especially where guys lose in world title fights.

[Max Molyneux]

You have to have at least one mandatry in those defences now too or you won't get it outright even you defended it 3 times.

[ishy]

I think Kell Brook wins it outright if he wins his next fight which will be his 3rd defence.

[Dan684]

You have to defend succesfully 3 times 1 of which must be a mandatory. If you defend it twice and lose the 3rd defence you need to win it back and defend it once.

[GazOC]

You have to defend succesfully 3 times 1 of which must be a mandatory. If you defend it twice and lose the 3rd defence you need to win it back and defend it once.


So even if one is a mandatory you could have 4 wins and no belt?

[Dan684]

No if one is a mandatory and you've defended it 3 times it's yours no matter how many losses you gain along the way. In theory you could win it and defend once against a mandatory then lose it then win back and defend twice and its yours

[GazOC]

When you say 3 defences do you mean winning it + 2 defenses? Or 3 actual defences in addition to winning it?

Sorry if that sounds picky but I'm curious..:D

[Dan684]

No apparently winning doesn't count. You have to DEFEND it 3 times. Good in a way brings a bit of credibility to it. Kell Brook won the vacant title and has 2 defences of it. If he beats Mutley he gets to keep it. (if one was a mandatory which I think Mutley is)

[GazOC]

So winning it + 2 defences, losing it and then winning it back (4 wins) doesn't get you a belt?

[Dan684]

Nope you then have to defend it again. :-)

[GazOC]

So even if one is a mandatory you could have 4 wins and no belt?


Are you trying to confuse me!!!.....;)

[Dan684]

Ha Ha no its you and your bloody questions :-) Basically you can win the Lonsdale Belt 20 times. If you dont defend it 3 times you'll never keep it

[GazOC]

:lol::lol::lol:

Cool!! Cheers mate, sorry to be a pain in the arse but I really like to know these things!!:good

[Dan684]

Not a problem my friend

[neil hibbert]

neverending story there

[davidjay]

I always thought it was four wins, whether defending or not.

On a slightly different subject, was there ever a rule that to fight for the British title you had to be white?

[Larryboys]

Originally it was 3 defences, then they dropped it to 2, then moved it back to 3 about 15 years ago because due to the high amount of weight classes they were giving too many out. They also made it so a fighter could only get 1 lonsdale belt per division, so no more Henry Coopers getting 3 from just fighting at one weight.

was there ever a rule that to fight for the British title you had to be white?

I'm unaware of us ever having seperate titles, I suppose it may have been the case back in the 19th century.

[apps1]

well i have jst read this thread and i am completely baffled but i quite enjoyed readin it , has it got to be three title fights to win it outright after u have won it or can it be a non belt fight and two title defences or has it to be three title fights lol sorry if i am now doing the baffling

[GazOC]

On a slightly different subject, was there ever a rule that to fight for the British title you had to be white?

Yes there was, black British fighters had to fight for the Empire (Commonweath) title until well into the 20th century. I think Dick Turpin was the first black person to win a British title.

[LHL]

Gaz are you the fountain of british boxing knowledge :lol:

[GazOC]

Gaz are you the fountain of british boxing knowledge :lol:

I'm just an old cunt who reads too many boxing books!!:roll:;)

[LHL]

well im glad you do :happy

[GazOC]

[Only registered and activated users can see links](boxer)

1948 was the first time a black fighter had been allowed to fight for the British title.

[LHL]

Cheers gaz the info you gave on ****** also made me think he was less of a cunt :lol:

[GazOC]

He IS still a cunt, just not any worse than any of the other cunts that have gone before him!!!;)

[AlFrancis]

My dad's got one. Back then you had to win 3 title fights to get it. Winning and defending both the same thing. Interestingly I think he still receives a pension on it, a pound a week. Yes, thats £1.00. Not much but I suppose when they first came out it was decent money.

[GazOC]

My dad's got one. Back then you had to win 3 title fights to get it. Winning and defending both the same thing. Interestingly I think he still receives a pension on it, a pound a week. Yes, thats £1.00. Not much but I suppose when they first came out it was decent money.

Whos your Dad? You're right, it used to be any 3 title wins at the same weight.

[AlFrancis]

Whos your Dad? You're right, it used to be any 3 title wins at the same weight.


Alan Rudkin

[GazOC]

Alan Rudkin

Honestly? That guy was very unlucky not to win a world title. Hows he doing?

Check out post number 5 in this thread

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[AlFrancis]

That's a coincidence! That's him in my avatar as well against Harada. He's alright, 67 now and Living in Liverpool.

[turpinr]

another merseyside boxer,nella tarleton ,would have been the first boxer to benefit from the lonsdale belt pension had he not died before his 50th birthday.
andrew jeptha was the first black man to win a british title ,in 1907.

[SteelTownCobra]

I thought you had to defend the belt three times to keep it?

It used to be five times with three being mandatories, unless the first two were mandatories making it only four defences required. If the first two and the fourth defence were mandatories you didn't have to defend it in the third fight but would have to fight a top ten ranked opponent within three months of the second defence. If you won the title then lost in your next fight then you would have to start over again, unless you won the rematch within a three month period and only if your first defence was not a mandatory defence and the opponent was not top ten ranked. The only other way was to defend it four times in 12 months with the first and fourth being mandatories and the other two being within three months of each other and not against the same opponent, unless the opponent was a top ten ranked fighter in which case the fourth fight wasn't necessary.

[sam1222]

i thought it was 2 successful defences....

[Mooresy]

The rules are that you must win it (1 fight), and defend it 3 times, 1 of those defences must be a mandatory defence to keep the belt. :good

[SteelTownCobra]

Have you got one Mooresy?

[AlFrancis]

Back in the old days I don't think there was such a thing as a voluntary defence. The champ only defended against the no 1 contender or someone who earned it by winning an eliminator.
The title was worth more then, in fact I don't think you could fight for the world title unless you were at least British champ.
Those Benn, Eubank, Watson fights for example would of been British title fights.

[Jack Dempsey]

Incidentally, they apparently cost £6500!!

[Mooresy]

Have you got one Mooresy?

Yes I'v got one STC, only person from Salford to have won one. Joe Bowker was the last British champion from Salford before me but that was in 1902 so there was no belts then. I've also been told that I'm the 2nd most successful British champion,post war, since Henry Cooper. He has 9 title wins, I have 7. Not that I'm showing off or anything!!:happy
Or proud.:cool::good

[Kid Lucky]

Yes I'v got one STC, only person from Salford to have won one. Joe Bowker was the last British champion from Salford before me but that was in 1902 so there was no belts then. I've also been told that I'm the 2nd most successful British champion,post war, since Henry Cooper. He has 9 title wins, I have 7. Not that I'm showing off or anything!!:happy
Or proud.:cool::good

You out running or something Moorsey - that's a seriously early post.

Feeling good for your next fight?

[Mooresy]

You out running or something Moorsey - that's a seriously early post.

Feeling good for your next fight?
No don't run in a morning pal, run in the evenings, always have done. Always up early though when i'm training, hunger strikes about 6am so it's breakfast time!! Feeling great for the fight, looking forward to performing on a big stage with it being on box office and linking to such a big fight.

[AlFrancis]

No don't run in a morning pal, run in the evenings, always have done. Always up early though when i'm training, hunger strikes about 6am so it's breakfast time!! Feeling great for the fight, looking forward to performing on a big stage with it being on box office and linking to such a big fight.


Good to see you on here. Congrats on the European title win.
In the old days you would of had 2 belts now.
Can you still win more than 1 now at the same weight?

[SteelTownCobra]

Yes I'v got one STC, only person from Salford to have won one. Joe Bowker was the last British champion from Salford before me but that was in 1902 so there was no belts then. I've also been told that I'm the 2nd most successful British champion,post war, since Henry Cooper. He has 9 title wins, I have 7. Not that I'm showing off or anything!!:happy
Or proud.:cool::good

Good man. Thought you did :good

[Mooresy]

Good to see you on here. Congrats on the European title win.
In the old days you would of had 2 belts now.
Can you still win more than 1 now at the same weight?

No only one at the same weight now.:good

[LHL]

Do you get to keep the Euro title Mooresy? Or do you have to have a few defenses first

[Mooresy]

Do you get to keep the Euro title Mooresy? Or do you have to have a few defenses first
Yes every belt you win you get to keep, except the lonsdale belt which you have to defend 3 times, that's why it means a lot I guess.

[brown bomber]

No don't run in a morning pal, run in the evenings, always have done. Always up early though when i'm training, hunger strikes about 6am so it's breakfast time!! Feeling great for the fight, looking forward to performing on a big stage with it being on box office and linking to such a big fight.Nice one Jamie any idea what the plans are after this fight?

[LHL]

Yes every belt you win you get to keep, except the lonsdale belt which you have to defend 3 times, that's why it means a lot I guess.

Cheers :good

[BigEars]

Nice one Jamie any idea what the plans are after this fight?

I think that's something plenty of us would be interested to know.
Also will your fight be the headline on the British ppv card ?, surely they won't put the Heavyweight fight at the top of the bill.

Best of luck against Dzuman.

[Mooresy]

I think that's something plenty of us would be interested to know.
Also will your fight be the headline on the British ppv card ?, surely they won't put the Heavyweight fight at the top of the bill.

Best of luck against Dzuman.
Not sure yet lads, just wanna get this one won 1st. Wanna stay busy though that's for sure.:good

[Beeston Brawler]

I think every defence for the British title should be a mandatory.

That way.... you don't get the likes of Stuart Elwell tackling Kell Brook.... I could have named half a dozen better guys at 147 that would have been available to give a better challenge.... allow me to use Boxrec or Boxing Monthly + the bigger LWW's and smaller LMW's and I could double that!

If you don't want to face the best fighters, give up the belt and get back to six round level :deal

Fuck promoters, fuck politics. Best vs best is what counts!