Couture CC

[scurlaruntings]

Well after seeing Randy do the unbelieveable AGAIN im pretty sure it may be safe to say that Randy may be able to put CC into retirement.I never ever thought he could do it.Certainly not at heavyweight and at his age but i guess Randy like B Hop is like fine wine.I think this match has to be made now.Randy never fucked up.Cro Cop did.

[Beebs]

CroCop doesn't deserve it right now, and a win over Kongo isn't enough to earn it.

[Hrak]

CroCop doesn't deserve it right now, and a win over Kongo isn't enough to earn it.
True, but regardless, its a big money fight and highly in demand, so bring it on.

[Amsterdam]

CroCop doesn't deserve it right now, and a win over Kongo isn't enough to earn it.

It's still an attractive fight, let's see how he looks. Cro Cop has a very good record and a solid resume, if he looks great in his next, why not? It'll add extra to the resume of whoever wins.

[achillesthegreat]

Cros always has a strikers chance but Couture is the better fighter. If Cro can't finish Couture, he won't win.

[Donut62]

CroCop doesn't deserve it right now, and a win over Kongo isn't enough to earn it.


When has deserving anything ever meant anything to ZUffa :lol:


I agree, the winner of Vera and Sylvia probably have a better claim to this, but Mirko is the most expensive fighter in their stable and time-line wise would make much more sense to slot in against Couture.

[AJAX]

I think Couture has as easier match against CC then he did Gonzaga, CC has never been pinned against a cage and in the clinch much.randy wanted to fight CC before gonzaga because CC is an easier matchup for him. Randy can easily take CC out of his game, a clinch or a takedown and mirko is rendered useless.

[jimmie]

Im very sure Couture would maul the limited Cro Cop and take his heart away minutes in.

[Tko4]

Couture would probably push him into the fence, hold him there and suck the life out of him. CC has a kicker's chance, no doubt, but the octagon favors Couture. And Randy's striking and wrestling looks to be at its highest level...ever. The guy is 44 and getting better.

[Donut62]

I refuse to pass judgement on this fight until Mirko fights Kongo. I'll get back to you guys in two weeks with my thoughts. :)

[iksrtfo]

I don't think it's a matter of whether CC deserves it or not but a matter if fans want to see it or not. That's how I think it should be anyway.

[ufoalf]

Ye, i definitely wanna see this fight, but i'd rather see Couture-Fedor. What if CC knocks Couture out? Is he going to retire? I'd rather not risk it :).

P.S. Did you see Couture WALK through Gonzaga's head kicks?

[Amsterdam]

Ye, i definitely wanna see this fight, but i'd rather see Couture-Fedor. What if CC knocks Couture out? Is he going to retire? I'd rather not risk it :).

P.S. Did you see Couture WALK through Gonzaga's head kicks?

Of course everyone did. But Gonzaga also did not set them up properly, he doesn't have the kicking skill of Cro Cop and others.

Gonzaga is still a great potential, he has decent speed for a big man and already established jiu jitsu skill, inexperience played a big part in this loss. It was rather an ugly win, but an effective one.

[AJAX]

Yea but sprawls are effective against guys like coleman who go for leg take takedowns, Randy's clinch is world class and has perfected it to take away his oppenents strong points. When CC beat Coleman it was a joke He turned away Coleman takedowns with ease and embarrased coleman. I wouldn't say CC will even get by Kongo it's a tough match for him. if CC should fight Randy i'll bet the odss would heavily favour Randy. CC is too 1 dimensional and Randy would have a simple gameplan for that.

[jimmie]

How so? How is he limited? He has a strength, just like Chuck, does that make him limited as well? Both have awesome sprawls when on their A game, Cro just made a mistake against Gonzaga. He's known as having one of the best sprawls in the game.

It would take a while to take his heart away, but I think Randy's Greco style wrestling would be better for taking him down than the normal shoot.

I think hes limited in the sense that hes not very good on the ground if Couture got him down im very sure Couture would bust him up and probablly pass his guard easily. I know Cros kicks are devestating but Randys smart hed scout them very well I know he did get caught once last night but the other times Gonzaga threw it Couture slipped it and caught it. If your plan to beat Randy Couture is to use ur feet im sorry but ur probablly fucked hes to smart and great of a Wrestler. As long as Randy can close the distance,get him into the fence he mauls him.

[AJAX]

I actually have to agree with you Jimmie:good

[jimmie]

I actually have to agree with you Jimmie:good

Lovely avatar :good

[AJAX]

Lovely avatar :good

any picks for UFC 75 ? I have to reddem myself:deal

[jimmie]

any picks for UFC 75 ? I have to reddem myself:deal

I wanna go bold and take Kongo but im not sure right now. I got Henderson by decision.

[scurlaruntings]

I think hes limited in the sense that hes not very good on the ground if Couture got him down im very sure Couture would bust him up and probablly pass his guard easily. I know Cros kicks are devestating but Randys smart hed scout them very well I know he did get caught once last night but the other times Gonzaga threw it Couture slipped it and caught it. If your plan to beat Randy Couture is to use ur feet im sorry but ur probablly fucked hes to smart and great of a Wrestler. As long as Randy can close the distance,get him into the fence he mauls him.This is already known.CC was a kick boxer and still is.He can fight off his back but his not comfortable there and his sub defense there aswell as his subbs would be limited.But this much is a certainty if CC comes out aggresively striking theres NO WAY Randy can beat him.

Randy has a fairly decent standup.But against Gonzaga he was able to break his nose in the fall when they clashed heads and this was essentially the turning point in the fight.Gonzaga was very unfortunate to be on the end of that.This being said Randys tactic to get in his grill worked perfectly.He would have to do the same with CC to have any success.

[Koa]

I think the more interesting matchup would be Kongo against Randy. See how well jungle judo does against wrestling. It "could" be a viable counter to Randy Controlling the distance and forcing clinches. Judo's a great discipline to have in clinches.

[Donut62]

I think the more interesting matchup would be Kongo against Randy. See how well jungle judo does against wrestling. It "could" be a viable counter to Randy Controlling the distance and forcing clinches. Judo's a great discipline to have in clinches.


I think you are confusing Kongo with Sokodjou.

[Koa]

I think you are confusing Kongo with Sokodjou.

I am :lol: :good

[achillesthegreat]

If Couture takes Cro down I think Cro will have no answer. He'll be defensive as usual but he'll get busted up.

You'll be suprised how Couture hangs with when they stand. Couture always moves his head and comes in with shots that are hard to read. Very much like Tyson. If he could do it to Liddell, he'll do it to Cro.

I think Liddell is a superior boxer to Cro. Cro shoots more kicks but I think kicks will be no issue for Couture. He'll grab his leg and take him down. If he can't catch a leg, he'll put his leg around Cros to trip him or go for the waist.

[scurlaruntings]

Liddell superior boxer?!?!?! Dude Liddell doesnt even possess a straight right hand or even a basic jab.Watch the boy shot that he tried to catch rampage with before he was KO`ed with the looping right hand.To be honest his boxing skills are very retarded.His just blessed with heavy hands.At least CC boxed as an amatuer and has more fundamental boxing skills.

[achillesthegreat]

Liddell superior boxer?!?!?! Dude Liddell doesnt even possess a straight right hand or even a basic jab.Watch the boy shot that he tried to catch rampage with before he was KO`ed with the looping right hand.To be honest his boxing skills are very retarded.His just blessed with heavy hands.At least CC boxed as an amatuer and has more fundamental boxing skills.
Yes, a superior boxer.

His footwork is much better, his sense of range and timing most definitely superior.

Liddell has a fantastic right hand and only uses his jab to range find and set shots up.

I expected more from you. Liddell being successful because of heavy hands is undoubtedly oen of the dumbest things I've heard said and way too many people say it.

Liddell loops his shots because he wants to stay a little further away. The same thing happened when he went to Rampages body. Quinton made him pay by lunging after him.

[ufoalf]

Yes, a superior boxer.

His footwork is much better, his sense of range and timing most definitely superior.

Liddell has a fantastic right hand and only uses his jab to range find and set shots up.

I expected more from you. Liddell being successful because of heavy hands is undoubtedly oen of the dumbest things I've heard said and way too many people say it.

Liddell loops his shots because he wants to stay a little further away. The same thing happened when he went to Rampages body. Quinton made him pay by lunging after him.

I'll agree with you on this one. Liddell's "boxing skills" are called terrible by boxer/boxing fans who are used to classical stance and movement. Liddell's stand up is overall superior to probably anyone in MMA today. His stand up is very good for MMA.

[achillesthegreat]

I'll agree with you on this one. Liddell's "boxing skills" are called terrible by boxer/boxing fans who are used to classical stance and movement. Liddell's stand up is overall superior to probably anyone in MMA today. His stand up is very good for MMA.
In MMA your boxing has to be simplified but I'm sure this is the case for all arts in MMA.

For example Hatton, Mayweather, Cotto etc can rip three left hooks to the body with obvious danger. In MMA, you are in extreme danger and you'll get taken down or kneed etc

In MMA you don't see guys coming in behind leaping left hooks, screw uppercuts, tucking up in half guard etc All these moves that make a boxer dynamic have to be disposed off in MMA.

I'm sure pure wrestlers and BJJ etc can't implement EVERYTHING because they have to think about other things.

For a stand up fighter Chuck probably has the best footwork I've seen. The way he manouvers around guys is fantastic. Look what he does to Randy, and Randy can cut the ring off and come in fantastically.

His punches are a little looped but Chuck hardly wants to throw short uppercuts on the inside, otherwise he'll get taken down.

Best boxing defence I've seen in MMA is probably Jackson.

[jimmie]

Liddell superior boxer?!?!?! Dude Liddell doesnt even possess a straight right hand or even a basic jab.Watch the boy shot that he tried to catch rampage with before he was KO`ed with the looping right hand.To be honest his boxing skills are very retarded.His just blessed with heavy hands.At least CC boxed as an amatuer and has more fundamental boxing skills.

His 2 straight right hand KOs over Randy Couture where pretty fucking good. But yeah obviously ur right Cro Cop is much better technique wise.

[scurlaruntings]

Yes, a superior boxer.

His footwork is much better, his sense of range and timing most definitely superior.

Liddell has a fantastic right hand and only uses his jab to range find and set shots up.

I expected more from you. Liddell being successful because of heavy hands is undoubtedly oen of the dumbest things I've heard said and way too many people say it.

Liddell loops his shots because he wants to stay a little further away. The same thing happened when he went to Rampages body. Quinton made him pay by lunging after him.Erm because Achilles its true!:patsch Liddell isnt known for his boxing 101 his known for his heavy hands.Do your self a favor and watch Rampage Liddell 2 again.:roflWatch the body shot he throws on Rampage.Which guy do you know with good boxing skills trys to throw a left to the body when his at least a foot from his opponent whilst at the same time leaves his right hand low? And if you want to keep distance any decent boxer knows you stick and move and keep your opponent on the end of the jab not some looping probing left hand.Bottom line is his boxing skills suck most here are aware of that.

[Duende]

Erm because Achilles its true!:patsch Liddell isnt known for his boxing 101 his known for his heavy hands.Do your self a favor and watch Rampage Liddell 2 again.:roflWatch the body shot he throws on Rampage.Which guy do you know with good boxing skills trys to throw a left to the body when his at least a foot from his opponent whilst at the same time leaves his right hand low? And if you want to keep distance any decent boxer knows you stick and move and keep your opponent on the end of the jab not some looping probing left hand.Bottom line is his boxing skills suck most here are aware of that.

I agree with you that his boxing technique leaves a lot to desire. He is very effective though and you cannot only attribute that to his heavy hands. He has great timing and pretty good speed. He also sees well where he's throwing the punch, therefore throwing many right on the button.

[scurlaruntings]

I agree with you that his boxing technique leaves a lot to desire. He is very effective though and you cannot only attribute that to his heavy hands. He has great timing and pretty good speed. He also sees well where he's throwing the punch, therefore throwing many right on the button.Agreed that isnt in dsipute.His timing and precision is very good infact.Its a shame he hasnt backed this up with a few fundamentals as he would be throughly unstoppable if he did.

[Shareef]

I'll pick Couture to win against CC. Before i wouldn't have thought this is possible but man Couture has been on a streak and looked impressive agianst Gonzaga straight took his heart away. However Cro Cop definately has a chance the man has weakness' but when he is on his strengths often ofset those weakness'. It is still an intriguing matchup but who knows this time Couture prolly won't be the underdog and it might work against him than if Cro Cop beat Gonzaga and was heavily favoured going into a fight with Randy. No one will underestimate Couture again he has proven to many times he is one resiliant cat.

By the way Cro Cop is superior stand up to liddell. Chuck has heavy hands no doubt but overall stand up Cro Cop has him beat. Mirko is lethal with his kicks and his hands people sometimes forget he has a very good str8 left hand.

[scurlaruntings]

Yup thats straight left broke Sapps orbital bone and that was with 10oz gloves.

[Shareef]

Yup thats straight left broke Sapps orbital bone and that was with 10oz gloves.

Sapp had this look on his face like he was crying. He dropped Wanderlei with a nice str8 left coming in before too. When Cro Cop is on he mixes between devestating kicks and accurate punches.

[ufoalf]

Agreed that isnt in dsipute.His timing and precision is very good infact.Its a shame he hasnt backed this up with a few fundamentals as he would be throughly unstoppable if he did.


The stupidest mistake boxing fans make. Assumption that what you see in the cage is his "boxing" skills. WTF do you want to see? I dont get it... you want him to roll the punches, bob and weave? He has GREAT sense of distance. His stance gives the illusion to your opponents that the can jab u hard, next thing you know theres a loopy hook comming at your face and nothing you can do about it. I'd say thats good.

There's only so much you can take from boxing to the cage. As it stands right now, different fighters adapted their "boxing" to MMA differently from one another. I'd say Liddell did a pretty good job of adapating into MMA standup.

[achillesthegreat]

Erm because Achilles its true!:patsch Liddell isnt known for his boxing 101 his known for his heavy hands.Do your self a favor and watch Rampage Liddell 2 again.:roflWatch the body shot he throws on Rampage.Which guy do you know with good boxing skills trys to throw a left to the body when his at least a foot from his opponent whilst at the same time leaves his right hand low? And if you want to keep distance any decent boxer knows you stick and move and keep your opponent on the end of the jab not some looping probing left hand.Bottom line is his boxing skills suck most here are aware of that.
It isn't true!

Liddell uses boxing how he has to use it. His only real flaw is his shots aren't tight but that is done on purpose to maintain range.

Liddells main defence is his offence and his feet. He shifts his head a bit too but he hasn't got as good a defence as Jackson. Jackson has a top defence.

Chuck looped his hook because he wants to keep distance. Popping the jab and scoring does little in MMA. Liddell wants to close the show and beat a guy up.

Liddell hasn't got a good defence but the rest of his game is solid.

It isn't debatable.

It baffles me how someone can watch the skill Chuck displayed v Couture and just call him heavy handed.

Chuck was not just a good boxer, watch his overall striking v Belfort, its great.

[scurlaruntings]

The stupidest mistake boxing fans make. Assumption that what you see in the cage is his "boxing" skills. WTF do you want to see? I dont get it... you want him to roll the punches, bob and weave? He has GREAT sense of distance. His stance gives the illusion to your opponents that the can jab u hard, next thing you know theres a loopy hook comming at your face and nothing you can do about it. I'd say thats good.

There's only so much you can take from boxing to the cage. As it stands right now, different fighters adapted their "boxing" to MMA differently from one another. I'd say Liddell did a pretty good job of adapating into MMA standup.That wasnt the question in dispute so i fail to see what your point was.Achilles asserted that Liddells boxing skills are better than CC`s. They clearly are not.

Now when talking about "boxing skills" be it in a ring in a cage in card board box or a postal box thats what there going to be likened to.No ones talking about how he adapted them to a cage or why they need to be slightly adapted to MMA.Boxing skills are just that BOXING SKILLS.

Jens Pulver BJJ and Gomi ALL have better boxing skills than Liddell.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I agree with Scurla on this one. Liddell is a very effective striker, but his boxing skills leave a lot to be desired. He doesn't even really use boxing skills, which isn't to say that he isn't dangerous and effective... it is just that boxing isn't the backbone of his operation.

I also agree with those of you talking about Chuck having a great sense of distance (normally), and using his foot movement very well. I agree with that. and he is very good at setting up his shots for the most part too. However, there are plenty of fighters who use actual boxing type skills in MMA in a much better technical fashion.

[ufoalf]

That wasnt the question in dispute so i fail to see what your point was.Achilles asserted that Liddells boxing skills are better than CC`s. They clearly are not.

Now when talking about "boxing skills" be it in a ring in a cage in card board box or a postal box thats what there going to be likened to.No ones talking about how he adapted them to a cage or why they need to be slightly adapted to MMA.Boxing skills are just that BOXING SKILLS.

Jens Pulver BJJ and Gomi ALL have better boxing skills than Liddell.

Ok, than how can you judge Liddells boxing from MMA match? It's like judging Kos' wrestling ability from MMA. Just cause he got taken down by GSP twice doesn't mean GSP is a better wrestler. I messed the part where he said Liddell has better stand up than CC. I dunno about that, its arguable.

[Duende]

That wasnt the question in dispute so i fail to see what your point was.Achilles asserted that Liddells boxing skills are better than CC`s. They clearly are not.

Now when talking about "boxing skills" be it in a ring in a cage in card board box or a postal box thats what there going to be likened to.No ones talking about how he adapted them to a cage or why they need to be slightly adapted to MMA.Boxing skills are just that BOXING SKILLS.

Jens Pulver BJJ and Gomi ALL have better boxing skills than Liddell.

That's how it is.

[scurlaruntings]

Ok, than how can you judge Liddells boxing from MMA match? It's like judging Kos' wrestling ability from MMA. Just cause he got taken down by GSP twice doesn't mean GSP is a better wrestler. I messed the part where he said Liddell has better stand up than CC. I dunno about that, its arguable.Iv never mentioned Koschecks wrestling ability so again i fail to see your point.Im not looking for comparisons here im simply stating the obvious.

Koscheck is a decorated wrestler.GSP is not.In a pure wrestling match im pretty sure 9 times out of 10 Koscheck would own GSP.BUT this is MMA not wrestling.

And yes we can judge Liddells skills from an MMA match as his striking plays a massive part in his execution.His KO record speaks for itself.

[achillesthegreat]

You guys are wrong. What are you saying is wrong with Chucks boxing skills?

Footwork? No! - He has great footwork. Great skill and technique with it. Probably the best defensive footwork in all of MMA. It is irrefutable that Chucks technique is better than Cros here.

Punches? No! - The shots are looped but he wants to keep his distance. His left is what he calls his 'set up punch', so he is shooting it out to set shots up and range find. He has all the text book punches. Only flaw is they are slightly looped but this isn't really a flaw in MMA.

Defence? Kinda! - His defence is average. Its based on footwork mainly, and shifting his head. He doesn't arm block for shit. This is why people think he is shit, because he doesn't pin his arms to his dome.

Intelligence? No! His sense of range and timing when it comes to punches is one of, if not the best, in the game.

What is your argument? I challenge it.

So other than a text book boxing defence, like Rampage has got, I see no argument. Jackson boxing defence while being able to avoid take downs and take fighters down is simply fantastic.

[Duende]

You guys are wrong. What are you saying is wrong with Chucks boxing skills?

Footwork? No! - He has great footwork. Great skill and technique with it. Probably the best defensive footwork in all of MMA. It is irrefutable that Chucks technique is better than Cros here.

Punches? No! - The shots are looped but he wants to keep his distance. His left is what he calls his 'set up punch', so he is shooting it out to set shots up and range find. He has all the text book punches. Only flaw is they are slightly looped but this isn't really a flaw in MMA.

Defence? Kinda! - His defence is average. Its based on footwork mainly, and shifting his head. He doesn't arm block for shit. This is why people think he is shit, because he doesn't pin his arms to his dome.

Intelligence? No! His sense of range and timing when it comes to punches is one of, if not the best, in the game.

What is your argument? I challenge it.

So other than a text book boxing defence, like Rampage has got, I see no argument. Jackson boxing defence while being able to avoid take downs and take fighters down is simply fantastic.

- He throws to the body without setting the punch up
- No classic head movement
- Looping punches aren't technically sound. They might work but that's not the point here.
- He leaves himself open for counters(that's not always a problem cause he can take a punch)

He punches well in MMA and has developped a style that has worked well for him. But against Rampage he met someone who was able to take advantage of Liddels lack of fundamentals. Throwing a body punch as a lead and going backwards in a straight line with your hands at the hip equals a lack of boxing technique. I say he could improve in that area. Again, the fact that he made his style work for him is that he has natural talents like speed accuracy and crazy power, says not everything about his technique.

[ufoalf]

Iv never mentioned Koschecks wrestling ability so again i fail to see your point.Im not looking for comparisons here im simply stating the obvious.

Koscheck is a decorated wrestler.GSP is not.In a pure wrestling match im pretty sure 9 times out of 10 Koscheck would own GSP.BUT this is MMA not wrestling.

And yes we can judge Liddells skills from an MMA match as his striking plays a massive part in his execution.His KO record speaks for itself.

Did you even read what i said? This is MMA not boxing.

[achillesthegreat]

- He throws to the body without setting the punch up
- No classic head movement
- Looping punches aren't technically sound. They might work but that's not the point here.
- He leaves himself open for counters(that's not always a problem cause he can take a punch)

He punches well in MMA and has developped a style that has worked well for him. But against Rampage he met someone who was able to take advantage of Liddels lack of fundamentals. Throwing a body punch as a lead and going backwards in a straight line with your hands at the hip equals a lack of boxing technique. I say he could improve in that area. Again, the fact that he made his style work for him is that he has natural talents like speed accuracy and crazy power, says not everything about his technique.
- You don't need to set a body shot up.
- I've already said his defence is where he is average
- He loops shots because he wants to maintain distance BUT he gets more leverage into his blows
- How does he leave himself open for counters? His game to have you to commit so he can make you pay.

In Rampage he met someone with a top boxing defence in MMA. Going to the body in MMA is always a risky business. Its an area you have to simplify because of being open for different things.

He hasn't got crazy speed and accuracy isn't a talent.

Chuck has some top skills. Him just being heavy handed is a ridiculous comment.

[Duende]

- You don't need to set a body shot up.
- I've already said his defence is where he is average
- He loops shots because he wants to maintain distance BUT he gets more leverage into his blows
- How does he leave himself open for counters? His game to have you to commit so he can make you pay.

In Rampage he met someone with a top boxing defence in MMA. Going to the body in MMA is always a risky business. Its an area you have to simplify because of being open for different things.

He hasn't got crazy speed and accuracy isn't a talent.

Chuck has some top skills. Him just being heavy handed is a ridiculous comment.

- You do need to set up a body shot otherwise you make yourself too vulnerable.
- His defense is less than average IMO
-The fact that he makes his punches work in MMA says nothing about good boxing fundamentals.
- He leaves himself open for counters by not covering up or pulling straight back.

I didn't say he has crazy speed, I said he has crazy power. And accuracy is IMO a talent. You can develop it, but it takes talent to be able to land right on the button everytime when under pressure.

[scurlaruntings]

Did you even read what i said? This is MMA not boxing.Correct.But guess what Sherlock a massive part of MMA is hand to hand combat using boxing skills.:patsch

[ufoalf]

Correct.But guess what Sherlock a massive part of MMA is hand to hand combat using boxing skills.:patsch

Are you kidding me... you seriously need to hone up those reading skills bro. You absolutely, unequivocally fail to make a connection between "wrestling to MMA" is as "boxing to MMA". One more time, you cannot judge someones wrestling skills by watching them do MMA as you cannot judge someones boxing skills watching them do MMA. Do you really not understand that? Are you one of those people who thinks that if a boxer comes in a cage he will dominate? Or even just the stand up?

[scurlaruntings]

Are you kidding me... you seriously need to hone up those reading skills bro. You absolutely, unequivocally fail to make a connection between "wrestling to MMA" is as "boxing to MMA". One more time, you cannot judge someones wrestling skills by watching them do MMA as you cannot judge someones boxing skills watching them do MMA. Do you really not understand that? Are you one of those people who thinks that if a boxer comes in a cage he will dominate? Or even just the stand up?Are you being fucking stupid? Because now your pissing me off.For fucks sake this is fucking elimentary.Im not interested in HOW Liddell`s adapted his skills to the cage, or how his evolved his boxing in MMA.Im evaluating his boxing skills for what they fucking are BOXING SKILLS end off.This is not difficult to understand or comprehend.If you want a debate on semantics PM Achilles.

[achillesthegreat]

- You do need to set up a body shot otherwise you make yourself too vulnerable.
- His defense is less than average IMO
-The fact that he makes his punches work in MMA says nothing about good boxing fundamentals.
- He leaves himself open for counters by not covering up or pulling straight back.

I didn't say he has crazy speed, I said he has crazy power. And accuracy is IMO a talent. You can develop it, but it takes talent to be able to land right on the button everytime when under pressure.
You don't need to set up a body shot. You won't be to vulnerable. You could argue you need to set up every shot but you don't. It all depends. In fact I'm sure Chuck does set it up with a left hand. He throws the left to get Jackson to lift his gloves up and then puts the hook in.

He doesn't have a great defence but he neglects it for offence. He wants to use his feet for defence. He keeps his hands open because he wants you to commit so he can counter.

Like I said, he loops his punches. Not sure if there is a boxer in BOXING HISTORY that has 100% text book punches. Fighters adapt their punches depending on what they want out of them. Chuck does the same.

His defence isn't covering up, he uses his feet. Covering up means he is in position to wrestle and he doesn't like going to the ground. Loads of boxers predominantly rely on footwork as their main line of defence.

Accuracy has nothing to do with talent. It is intelligence that allows you to land accurately.

All you've established is that Chuck doesn't have an amazing defence - ONE thing! Plus Chuck doesn't have a bad defence, his footwork sees to it he is usually out of danger. How many shots does Chuck get caught with? Not that many. Jackson cuffed him with one prior to the ko. Because he is shifting his head, he isn't getting caught clean much. He has class footwork, solid punching and and average defence. ONE weak area which has been done that way out of design so he can be more offensive.

[ufoalf]

Are you being fucking stupid? Because now your pissing me off.For fucks sake this is fucking elimentary.Im not interested in HOW Liddell`s adapted his skills to the cage, or how his evolved his boxing in MMA.Im evaluating his boxing skills for what they fucking are BOXING SKILLS end off.This is not difficult to understand or comprehend.If you want a debate on semantics PM Achilles.

Thanks for confirming that you can't read. I was just making sure.

[scurlaruntings]

Thanks for confirming that you can't read. I was just making sure.No problem stupid:smooch

[ufoalf]

I'm the one who's stupid? :nut

Our converstation(simplified):

Me: Can't really judge Liddell's boxing skills by just looking at MMA matches.

You: That wasn't the point, Liddell's skill is inferior to CC.

Me: You cant judge someones boxing ability if you only saw them do MMA. It's like Koschek vs GSP wrestling wise.

You: I dont see your point, Koschek would own GSP in pure wrestling. This is MMA not wrestling, I'm judging Liddell's boxing in MMA.

Me: You say Koschek is a good wrestler after seeing him getting OWNED in wrestling FUNDAMENTALS in MMA, while saying Liddell has no fundamentals in boxing just by watchin him do MMA. This is MMA not boxing.

You: WAA, waa, waa! I'm only judging boxing skills from watching him do MMA.

Me: Mmk. Good counter point...


Liddell has only been doing this for like 20 years, I'm sure he'll get to practicing boxing fundamentals soon... :scaredas:

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even though courture has been doing awesome things and cro cop got knocked out cold in his last fight i still think cro cop would wreck him. cro cop is lighter and quicker on his feet then gonzaga and would have a better chance avoiding the clinch. gonzaga was able to land some pretty good shots on couture. cro cop is a much more effective striker. not to mention hes a south paw.

[AJAX]

I think he would be way worse off then Gonzaga was, Randy had to watch strikes and Gonzaga's ground game that's why he used the fence and didn't put him down until he knew Gonzaga was gassed, Cro cop would be beat in the clinch and on the ground, he would have to land a big LHK or punches.He's too 1 dimensional for Couture.