A popular champion losing a fight in his prime without a single excuse.

[Shake]

Throughout the grand history of boxing, this is harder to find than you'd think.

[PowerPuncher]

Fans always have excuses even if a fighter doesnt.

[AlFrancis]

Joe Frazier vs George Foreman

[flamengo]

Kostya Tszyu vs Vince Phillips....

There were REASONS... Not excuses... lol

[flamengo]

Joe Frazier vs George Foreman

Joe was an undertrained, big titted man...

[AlFrancis]

Joe was an undertrained, big titted man...


:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Someone's always goona find some excuse.

[AlFrancis]

John Stracey vs Carlos Palomino

[My dinner with Conteh]

Sibbo vs Hagler. Not a champ, mind. Very gracious nonetheless.

[flamengo]

SRR vs Turpin I.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Jim Watt vs Arguello.

[AlFrancis]

Charlie Magri vs Frank Cedeno

[turpinr]

SRR vs Turpin I.

the great sugarman's words were,"i got beat by the better man"

[AlFrancis]

the great sugarman's words were,"i got beat by the better man"


We could do with a bit more of that these days.

[flamengo]

the great sugarman's words were,"i got beat by the better man"


poor excuse... lol

:good

[LHL]

Don Curry Vs Honeyghan

rumors of Curry on the white stuff but i don't believe it

[AlFrancis]

Don Curry Vs Honeyghan

rumors of Curry on the white stuff but i don't believe it

I think doing the weight was the excuse/reason on this one.

[flamengo]

This might be the closest to 'no excuse'

Rose vs Harada.

Rose, 18 y/o... fighting in Japan, 3 Japanese judges and Harada a 2 time world champ and 25 y/o.

[mr. magoo]

Wladimir Klitschko vs Lamon Brewster.

Wlad was in his late 20s, working with Steward, what more is there.

[turpinr]

John Stracey vs Carlos Palomino

stracey couldn't get his breath back to make any excuses !!
what a body puncher palomino was,still makes me wince seeing that,ooouuuccchhh !!!

[AlFrancis]

This might be the closest to 'no excuse'

Rose vs Harada.

Rose, 18 y/o... fighting in Japan, 3 Japanese judges and Harada a 2 time world champ and 25 y/o.

I was gonna say this one but I thought I would leave it for you.

[AlFrancis]

stracey couldn't get his breath back to make any excuses !!
what a body puncher palomino was,still makes me wince seeing that,ooouuuccchhh !!!

Yes!!!!! I just watched this one recently on Youtube.

[flamengo]

I was gonna say this one but I thought I would leave it for you.


Dont worry mate, I'm certain the 'R vs R' would have been reversed desicion wise in the UK... Whats your scorecard or opinion on that one. I doubt Lionel would have sulked about an 'L' at Kooyong.

[turpinr]

germany seems to have the worst reputation these days for decisions ie. robin reid robbed.
was japan as bad back then ??

[SuzieQ49]

Im sorry but no way was frazier in his prime vs foreman. take a look a photos of him in 1973 vs photos of him in the late 1960s, fraziers body is full of flab and he looks extremley soft in 1973 compared to the trim rock hard frazier of late 1960s. Also, frazier looked absolutley horrible in his 1972 title defenses against ron stander and terry daniels, two unrated fighters. those 2 fights were a preview of things to come.

[turpinr]

joe bugner very nearly took out frazier after smokin' joe had decked him.

[mckay_89]

Wright v Vargas?

[AlFrancis]

germany seems to have the worst reputation these days for decisions ie. robin reid robbed.
was japan as bad back then ??


I watched Medel vs Harada 2 the other day and I had that a lot closer than the 3 japanese judges.
When my dad fought him the 2 Japanese had it a lot wider than the American judge. Peter Wilson of the Daily Mirror had me dad as the winner.

[AlFrancis]

Dont worry mate, I'm certain the 'R vs R' would have been reversed desicion wise in the UK... Whats your scorecard or opinion on that one. I doubt Lionel would have sulked about an 'L' at Kooyong.

It's hard for me to judge it. It was very close, split with 3 Australian judges, the papers in England were split over it. It's just the Ray Mitchell thing that leaves a bit of a sour taste. Me dad just said it was a great fight and it was great to be part of it.

[AREA 53]

I suppose Max Bear vs Jimmy Braddock would be a classic example

Ezzard Charles Against Walcott another ( Ez perhaps not as popular as some after defeating old Louis )

Floyd Patterson Vs Johanson

In each case it seems that the Champions simply underestimated the challenger

you could add Buchanan against Duran ( but few Knew Durans emerging capabilities at the time )

[flamengo]

It's hard for me to judge it. It was very close, split with 3 Australian judges, the papers in England were split over it. It's just the Ray Mitchell thing that leaves a bit of a sour taste. Me dad just said it was a great fight and it was great to be part of it.

Ray was a fkn WACKER!!. :patsch

Your old mans a champ mate, through and through.

Had the fight been at Wembley or the likes, it would be a classic all the same. It remains a total classic here.

Maybe the Fammo vs Saldivar fight should have been afforded to Aust soil?

[JohnThomas1]

you could add Buchanan against Duran ( but few Knew Durans emerging capabilities at the time )

Some might argue the shot to the nuts as a technical excuse :hey

[DocDevil]

I suppose Max Bear vs Jimmy Braddock would be a classic example

Ezzard Charles Against Walcott another ( Ez perhaps not as popular as some after defeating old Louis )

Floyd Patterson Vs Johanson

In each case it seems that the Champions simply underestimated the challenger

you could add Buchanan against Duran ( but few Knew Durans emerging capabilities at the time )



I would say Floyd against Sonny Liston also,Patterson was only 28.Really even in his later years,Floyd always looked to be in good condition.

[SuzieQ49]

Good one Doc. Even as a Big Walcott fan, another one may be Walcott losing to Marciano. Now you can use age as an exuse potentially, 38, but I'd be dammed if I could see Walcott putting up a better fight against marciano than the one he did in 52.

[mr. magoo]

Foreman was peak against an aging Ali when he lost

[heehoo]

Wlad vs. Ross Purrity.

[teeto]

Foreman was peak against an aging Ali when he lost
Yeah i've heard Foreman say that 'fighters wait for their corner to tell them to get off the canvas', and when his corner told him to get uo he obliged but 'the ref's count was over'.

Or something like that.

Make what you will of it as qualifying as an excuse.

[mcvey]

Throughout the grand history of boxing, this is harder to find than you'd think.

Well Dempsey had been inactive for three years, but after being easily outboxed by Tunney he just said," I forgot to duck".

[SteveO]

If I remember, Spinks did not do anything to trash Tyson following his loss.

I think he could have used his weight as an excuse, but didn't.

[mr. magoo]

If I remember, Spinks did not do anything to trash Tyson following his loss.

I think he could have used his weight as an excuse, but didn't.

Perhaps, but the thread calls for an example of a champion in his PRIME.

At 32 years of age, only having fought once in two years and being out of his ideal environment as a heavy ( something you touched upon. ) Its a hard case to make for him being prime. I think 1985 was probably the climax of the guy's career. He even looked a bit sluggish in the opening rounds against Stephen Tangstad.

[GPater11093]

If I remember, Spinks did not do anything to trash Tyson following his loss.

I think he could have used his weight as an excuse, but didn't.

probably because he was petrified too, he was bricking himself before the Tyson fight imagine him after that blowout

[PH|LLA]

Judah vs Spinks II?

I actually believe there isn't a fight where you couldn't find an excuse for either fighter.

[Gesta]

Kosta never had any excuses for both of his losses.

[flamengo]

Kosta never had any excuses for both of his losses.

Kostya's excuse for the Phillips loss was ill-affects from Amino acids he'd used in his diet. Fact.

Ill-affects from continually catching rights hands on his head seems more appropriate.

[Gesta]

Kostya's excuse for the Phillips loss was ill-affects from Amino acids he'd used in his diet. Fact.

Ill-affects from continually catching rights hands on his head seems more appropriate.


Did not know he said amino acids were a factor, do you know where\when this was said?

[flamengo]

Did not know he said amino acids were a factor, do you know where\when this was said?

Mate, this is quoted directly out of "The Fist" Magazine. July 1997.

"I lost. It was my mistake. I didn't fight well", Tszyu said immediately after the fight.

Later in the piece....

It was almost a relief to learn that that desposed world champion Kostya Tszyu had been diagnosed with anaemia which probably contributed to his world title defeat, his manager Vlad Warton told a press conference on June 10.
Wharton said Tszyu was not as strong as normal and lacked energy in his fight against Vince Phillips, especially in the later rounds.
The camp now believes that was because he had been taking Amino Acids on the advice of a friend and the acids -used by many Olympic athletes to enhance endurance- produced an adverse reaction, causing anaemia.

"I don't want to go looking for excuses. But I became so weak during the fight, the only logical solution to that was the Amino Acids"



I hope that helps mate, Cheers.

[Gesta]

Mate, this is quoted directly out of "The Fist" Magazine. July 1997.

"I lost. It was my mistake. I didn't fight well", Tszyu said immediately after the fight.

Later in the piece....

It was almost a relief to learn that that desposed world champion Kostya Tszyu had been diagnosed with anaemia which probably contributed to his world title defeat, his manager Vlad Warton told a press conference on June 10.
Wharton said Tszyu was not as strong as normal and lacked energy in his fight against Vince Phillips, especially in the later rounds.
The camp now believes that was because he had been taking Amino Acids on the advice of a friend and the acids -used by many Olympic athletes to enhance endurance- produced an adverse reaction, causing anaemia.

"I don't want to go looking for excuses. But I became so weak during the fight, the only logical solution to that was the Amino Acids"



I hope that helps mate, Cheers.


Thanks, a bit disapointing.:verysad

I was f in cut when he lost to Hatton, did not want to do anything our talk to anyone that day.

On the up side my old man got me signed gloves by Kostya for my birthday.

He is my Fave along with the Marvous one. I just got in to boxing last year, apart from watching Kostya, Oscar and Tyson when they were around.

[flamengo]

Thanks, a bit disapointing.:verysad

I was f in cut when he lost to Hatton, did not want to do anything our talk to anyone that day.

On the up side my old man got me signed gloves by Kostya for my birthday.

He is my Fave along with the Marvous one. I just got in to boxing last year, apart from watching Kostya, Oscar and Tyson when they were around.

Mate, dont let it bother you. Kostya rebounded pretty bloody well, unifying the division and fighting brilliantly along the way. There was a lot of talk of a re-match to be in Australia, as Phillips was not a popular figure in the USA.

On the brighter side, both Phillips and Tszyu embraced and congratulated each other whilst at the hospital post fight.... YES, both men went to hospital for a check up, and Tszyu didn't leave until 4 am!!

Phillips was very sincere, and told Kostya that he'd give De La Hoya a great fight still. Kostya is a great guy, a great fighter and a great ambassador for the sport.

[Gesta]

Mate, dont let it bother you. Kostya rebounded pretty bloody well, unifying the division and fighting brilliantly along the way. There was a lot of talk of a re-match to be in Australia, as Phillips was not a popular figure in the USA.

On the brighter side, both Phillips and Tszyu embraced and congratulated each other whilst at the hospital post fight.... YES, both men went to hospital for a check up, and Tszyu didn't leave until 4 am!!

Phillips was very sincere, and told Kostya that he'd give De La Hoya a great fight still. Kostya is a great guy, a great fighter and a great ambassador for the sport.


I have meet Kostya a few times and he is a good bloke, aposed to some of the other riff raff.

There might of been a reason why Mosley, Floyd and Oscar did not get in the ring with him. I don't think he beats the other two, but who would have thought that Norton beat's Ali two out of three times.

I think he would have given Floyd a good match up, you never know with his timming and power. The jr welterwight was preety deep back then as well.

People give Zab shit now but back then he was highly rated, and for good reason to. Zab gave Floyd fits for the first half of their bout.

[flamengo]

I have meet Kostya a few times and he is a good bloke, aposed to some of the other riff raff.

There might of been a reason why Mosley, Floyd and Oscar did not get in the ring with him. I don't think he beats the other two, but who would have thought that Norton beat's Ali two out of three times.

I think he would have given Floyd a good match up, you never know with his timming and power. The jr welterwight was preety deep back then as well.

People give Zab shit now but back then he was highly rated, and for good reason to. Zab gave Floyd fits for the first half of their bout.

Kostya is definately a good bloke.

A match with Mosley would have forced Tszyu into the W/W division.. never going to happen.

DLH was never going to face Tszyu.

Floyd would have been a great match.

For mine, a match with Pernell... with both men in their prime is a dream fight. NYE NYE Sweet Pea.

The match with Judah is great to watch. Full credit to Zab, he really does have ability and did all he could to 'stylistically' out match Tszyu. Its a great example of speed/ flashiness/ flamboyance vs patience/power.

[SuzieQ49]

Tzyus lucky he never got in the ring with oscar in 1997 because that was right around Oscars peak when he took apart MAG, oscar would have picked apart, outclassed, and destroyed Kosta by late TKO. Way too much skill and speed for Kosta. He also had hurt in his punches at 140lb.

[My2Sense]

SRR vs Turpin I.

Robinson said in his autobiography that his recent hectic fight schedule had wearied him.


EDIT: Sorry, are we taking about a fighter actually not having an excuse, or simply not giving one?

[flamengo]

Tzyus lucky he never got in the ring with oscar in 1997 because that was right around Oscars peak when he took apart MAG, oscar would have picked apart, outclassed, and destroyed Kosta by late TKO. Way too much skill and speed for Kosta. He also had hurt in his punches at 140lb.

Is that the same MAG that Tszyu destroyed with more conviction?????

As for speed... that never bothered Tszyu.

Name anyone with better power than Tszyu's at jnr W/W...

[Gesta]

Kostya is definately a good bloke.

A match with Mosley would have forced Tszyu into the W/W division.. never going to happen.

DLH was never going to face Tszyu.

Floyd would have been a great match.

For mine, a match with Pernell... with both men in their prime is a dream fight. NYE NYE Sweet Pea.

The match with Judah is great to watch. Full credit to Zab, he really does have ability and did all he could to 'stylistically' out match Tszyu. Its a great example of speed/ flashiness/ flamboyance vs patience/power.


Sweet Pea is pretty good, i don't know if Kostya can win, do you?

I just got Pea's career collection on dvd, he was one of the best.

Kostya was not a ww, i don't think he blew up in weight after the weigh in, if i remember corectly.

I think Oscar and Shane both beat Kostya, but the risk\reward does not do the math for them to meet, which was a shame, if he had one of their scalps he would have been alot more highly regarded. It's a pity he got a bit power\right hand happy to.

Your Aussie? I'm from Brisbane (via Sydney).

I am looking forward to the Mundine fight, as I have tickets.

Who's in your avater?

[flamengo]

Sweet Pea is pretty good, i don't know if Kostya can win, do you?

I just got Pea's career collection on dvd, he was one of the best.

Kostya was not a ww, i don't think he blew up in weight after the weigh in, if i remember corectly.

I think Oscar and Shane both beat Kostya, but the risk\reward does not do the math for them to meet, which was a shame, if he had one of their scalps he would have been alot more highly regarded. It's a pity he got a bit power\right hand happy to.

Your Aussie? I'm from Brisbane (via Sydney).

I am looking forward to the Mundine fight, as I have tickets.

Who's in your avater?


Mate, I've never seen a better exponent against a southpaw. If Pernell and Tszyu met 'in their primes', which was only a few years apart, I doubt Sweet Pea would better Tszyu.

As for Oscar, the math was never suitable to fight Tszyu... instead he quickly escaped the jnr W/W division for the sake of $$$$$$$ and a match with Sweet Pea.

Mosely is not relevant, as he was fighting Shannon Taylor instead.. lol

I really like watching Pernell, as he is a great showman with consumate precision.. a class act.... I just struggle to see him belting Tszyu on any day, particularly with any ease.

Yep, Im Aussie, from Melb. The bloke in my avatar is Fred Henneberry, Aust M/W champ in 1932. A great old bloke I had the pleasure of spending a little time with and plenty of time conversing with. He beat Ken Overlin (future world M/W champ) and tackled Archie Moore also. For interests sake, Overlin is the first bloke to put a blemish on Ezzard Charles' record. Overlin also took the M/W crown from Ceferino Garcia... Henry Armstrong only managed a 'disputed' draw. A lot more can be said about ol' Fred Henneberry. Plenty more.

As for Mundine/Geale... I hoped to go, but it appears unlikely now. I dont see this fight lasting more than 5 rounds. Mundine should finish things early.

[divac]

A classic case of a fighter not offering a single excuse when he easily could have, was the first Humberto "Chiquita" Gonzalez vs Michael Carbajal fight......

With Carbajal having been dropped twice in the fight and Gonzalez having his way with him and up wide on the cards.......Gonzalez looked to have gotten a little careless against Carbajal in the 7th round and got caught with a huge shot that literally put Gonzalez to sleep.......

......afterward, the announcing team interviewing Gonzalez, set Gonzalez up to offer the perfect excuse of getting careless for the reason that Carbajal caught him with a big shot.........to wish Gonzalez interupted and stating, "Nada de eso, nada de eso, ....me agarro, me tumbo, y ni modo. Asi es este deporte, se gane y se pierde!"

Translation....."Nothing of the sort, nothing of the sort,.....he caught me, he dropped me, and thats just the way it is.....In this sport you win and you lose."




"Chiquita" Gonzalez could have easily went along with what the announcing team and many who watched the fight felt about the happenings......but he stopped the announcing team in its tracks and did'nt offer a single excuse but praised Carbajal for landing the shot that hurt him and put him away.

I got to say, "Chiquita" may have been the one fighter that I ever witness that really told it like it was and did'nt offer excuses, even if there was a valid one that most fighters would have grasped on to.

[flamengo]

What a cracking fight... an absolute pisser. Still have it on VHS, and watched it so many times with mates in the early 90's.

Gonzalez was a stone faced mother.... near impossible to read his mind.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Ali vs Spinks. Then again, both fights look as bent as anything I've ever seen in a boxing ring: "You hit me as little as you can and I promise not to hit you next time".

[My dinner with Conteh]

Gonzalez-Carbajal I was possibly the best fight of the 1990s. It got my vote anyway.

[Gesta]

Mate, I've never seen a better exponent against a southpaw. If Pernell and Tszyu met 'in their primes', which was only a few years apart, I doubt Sweet Pea would better Tszyu.

As for Oscar, the math was never suitable to fight Tszyu... instead he quickly escaped the jnr W/W division for the sake of $$$$$$$ and a match with Sweet Pea.

Mosely is not relevant, as he was fighting Shannon Taylor instead.. lol

I really like watching Pernell, as he is a great showman with consumate precision.. a class act.... I just struggle to see him belting Tszyu on any day, particularly with any ease.

Yep, Im Aussie, from Melb. The bloke in my avatar is Fred Henneberry, Aust M/W champ in 1932. A great old bloke I had the pleasure of spending a little time with and plenty of time conversing with. He beat Ken Overlin (future world M/W champ) and tackled Archie Moore also. For interests sake, Overlin is the first bloke to put a blemish on Ezzard Charles' record. Overlin also took the M/W crown from Ceferino Garcia... Henry Armstrong only managed a 'disputed' draw. A lot more can be said about ol' Fred Henneberry. Plenty more.

As for Mundine/Geale... I hoped to go, but it appears unlikely now. I dont see this fight lasting more than 5 rounds. Mundine should finish things early.


When Kostya won the belt from Jake the Snake he said "I have a special combonation for southpaw's" lol, which i tend to believe. Southpaw's tend to hit with straight right's, but in my humble opinion pea win's in a good fight, to much class, but Kostya is in with a shot. He would need a few rounds to get his timing, but then would start to land with good shot's but I have not seen Pea in trouble before.

Oscar cannot be blamed as he was chasing bigger names.

Then started hanging out with the bikies lol.

Pea is good to watch and has a number of big scalp's, JJC & Nelson did not look world class on those night's.

Yeah Melb's pretty cool, apart from the weather at times. Never heard of those blokes before, sounds like we have had some decent talent, I have Jonny Famo bout with Harada, he seemed pretty good, good foot movment.

It's a pity that Mundine dose not have more amition, as he has talent. How good is Geale? i've heard of him, but never seen him.

It is a shame that all the big mouth's etc.. get all the attention.

[Gesta]

Ali vs Spinks. Then again, both fights look as bent as anything I've ever seen in a boxing ring: "You hit me as little as you can and I promise not to hit you next time".


I'm not to sure I like your avatar :| , that bloody Russain From Spatak, but still a good game the other day.

[flamengo]

When Kostya won the belt from Jake the Snake he said "I have a special combonation for southpaw's" lol, which i tend to believe. Southpaw's tend to hit with straight right's, but in my humble opinion pea win's in a good fight, to much class, but Kostya is in with a shot. He would need a few rounds to get his timing, but then would start to land with good shot's but I have not seen Pea in trouble before.

Oscar cannot be blamed as he was chasing bigger names.

Then started hanging out with the bikies lol.

Pea is good to watch and has a number of big scalp's, JJC & Nelson did not look world class on those night's.

Yeah Melb's pretty cool, apart from the weather at times. Never heard of those blokes before, sounds like we have had some decent talent, I have Jonny Famo bout with Harada, he seemed pretty good, good foot movment.

It's a pity that Mundine dose not have more amition, as he has talent. How good is Geale? i've heard of him, but never seen him.

It is a shame that all the big mouth's etc.. get all the attention.

Mate, you'll enjoy the game a hell of a lot. Considering you say its been 12 months of interest so far, just wait and see how you feel in 20 years.

Australia has had some great fighters, and some complete duds. Most countries have had the same.

Boxing in general is nothing on what it was years ago. The fighters are incredible, but the availability of titles, dictated careers, limited brilliant match ups and idiotic performances take the shine of it. The same arguement can be put forward regarding the fighters of years ago.. being in poor eras, or drawing the 'colour line'...

Its one of those sports... nothing is ever good enough to please everyone. Funnily enough, everyone still gravitates to it.

[Bill Butcher]

Ali vs Spinks. Then again, both fights look as bent as anything I've ever seen in a boxing ring: "You hit me as little as you can and I promise not to hit you next time".

The thread title asks for prime yrs.

[GPater11093]

A classic case of a fighter not offering a single excuse when he easily could have, was the first Humberto "Chiquita" Gonzalez vs Michael Carbajal fight......

With Carbajal having been dropped twice in the fight and Gonzalez having his way with him and up wide on the cards.......Gonzalez looked to have gotten a little careless against Carbajal in the 7th round and got caught with a huge shot that literally put Gonzalez to sleep.......

......afterward, the announcing team interviewing Gonzalez, set Gonzalez up to offer the perfect excuse of getting careless for the reason that Carbajal caught him with a big shot.........to wish Gonzalez interupted and stating, "Nada de eso, nada de eso, ....me agarro, me tumbo, y ni modo. Asi es este deporte, se gane y se pierde!"

Translation....."Nothing of the sort, nothing of the sort,.....he caught me, he dropped me, and thats just the way it is.....In this sport you win and you lose."




"Chiquita" Gonzalez could have easily went along with what the announcing team and many who watched the fight felt about the happenings......but he stopped the announcing team in its tracks and did'nt offer a single excuse but praised Carbajal for landing the shot that hurt him and put him away.

I got to say, "Chiquita" may have been the one fighter that I ever witness that really told it like it was and did'nt offer excuses, even if there was a valid one that most fighters would have grasped on to.

yeh he was a true Sportsman after that not many people would do that

What a cracking fight... an absolute pisser. Still have it on VHS, and watched it so many times with mates in the early 90's.

Gonzalez was a stone faced mother.... near impossible to read his mind.

great great great fight cant say how good it is i love it

Gonzalez-Carbajal I was possibly the best fight of the 1990s. It got my vote anyway.

my vote too it had everything

[Gesta]

Mate, you'll enjoy the game a hell of a lot. Considering you say its been 12 months of interest so far, just wait and see how you feel in 20 years.

Australia has had some great fighters, and some complete duds. Most countries have had the same.

Boxing in general is nothing on what it was years ago. The fighters are incredible, but the availability of titles, dictated careers, limited brilliant match ups and idiotic performances take the shine of it. The same arguement can be put forward regarding the fighters of years ago.. being in poor eras, or drawing the 'colour line'...

Its one of those sports... nothing is ever good enough to please everyone. Funnily enough, everyone still gravitates to it.



:thumbsup