Curry's amateur record...

[Russell]

Can anyone compete?

400-16, I think it was...

[TBooze]

Can anyone compete?

400-16, I think it was...
I have seen 431-18 for Curry, but remember he was a pro at 19...

Bernard Taylor was allegedly 481-8

Kelcie Banks had 505 fights

I suspect Lazlo Papp and Stevenson would be up there as well.

[Nemesis]

Mark breland was ca. 119-1, winning 5 golden gloves titles (ny)

SRR was ca. 75-0 beating Pep and Billy Graham along the way

[TBooze]

Looking this up, the numbers need to be taken with a pinch of salt:

Lazlo Papp:

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1968 Gold Medallist Francisco Morochito Rodriquez had a record of 266-4

Dave Hilton Jr 130-2
Matthew Hilton 106-0
Alex Hilton 101-1

Benvenuti 119-1
Napoles 113-1
Brleland 110-1
Courage Tshabalala 83-1

Harry Mallin claimed an unbeaten Amateur resume of over 300 fights

Joan Guzman 312-10

Felix Savon 387-21
Mario Kindelan 358-22
Teofilo Stevenson 302-22


But the Daddy has be Dick McTaggart 610-24 with an Olympic Gold, a Val Barker and 5 ABA Championships to his name.

[Senya13]

SRR was ca. 75-0 beating Pep and Billy Graham along the way
It was discussed again here recently, that Robinson had from 1 to 3 losses in the amateurs.

[Senya13]

Robinson was 85-0 according to the book on him "Pound for Pound" with 69 first round knockouts.
The book is wrong.

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[TBooze]

The book is wrong.

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The book maybe wrong, there was still no definitive evidence shown to disprove the 85-0...

[Senya13]

There was no definitive evidence of 85-0 in the first place. Who counted it and how?

[TBooze]

There was no definitive evidence of 85-0 in the first place. Who counted it and how?

History is written by the victor, anf few got more wins than Robinson;)

[Senya13]

History contains a lot of myths. This undefeated record is one of such myths. And he only fought local opposition, not world class.

[TBooze]

History contains a lot of myths. This undefeated record is one of such myths. And he only fought local opposition, not world class.

But there is no evidence brought to the table on this forum to prove he lost. And the local talent is from the New York area which generally is not to bad.

[Senya13]

But there is no evidence to prove he had an undefeated record, except 3rd-rate source.

[TBooze]

But there is no evidence to prove he had an undefeated record, except 3rd-rate source.

I would trust the word of Bob Mee over most in boxing...

[Senya13]

I would trust the head of IBRO over Bob Mee any day of the week. The info he got originates in New York Daily News newspaper that founded the NY Golden Gloves tournament.
Here is a list of all NY GG champions over the years ([Only registered and activated users can see links]):
March 7, 1938
Special Sub-Novice
118 lb. Pasquale Pesca, Unattached Won by Default over Eugene Toscani, Unattached

Pesca who beat Robby won the tournament in that category.

[TBooze]

I would trust the head of IBRO over Bob Mee any day of the week. The info he got originates in New York Daily News newspaper that founded the NY Golden Gloves tournament.
Here is a list of all NY GG champions over the years ([Only registered and activated users can see links]):


Pesca who beat Robby won the tournament in that category.

He beat Ray Robinson, but is their evidence it was the Walker Smith Jr Ray Robinson?

[Senya13]

1) The loss is present in lists compiled by IBRO's director and by Mike DeLisa, who have done separate researches of the same subject.
2) I doubt Bob Mee (British historian) gives a list of amateur fights of Robinson with dates, results, locations, weights.
3) Do you have the book and can look up the bibliography list, if it contains New York newspapers?

[TBooze]

1) The loss is present in lists compiled by IBRO's director and by Mike DeLisa, who have done separate researches of the same subject.
2) I doubt Bob Mee (British historian) gives a list of amateur fights of Robinson with dates, results, locations, weights.
3) Do you have the book and can look up the bibliography list, if it contains New York newspapers?

2) Yes you are correct the list is not in the book I am looking at

3) Lords of the Ring (Page 57) is one of the books with the 85-0 claim.

I am always open to Robinson losing amateur bouts, but there is no definitive evidence I have seen to suggest Ray Robinson who was Walker Smith Jr did lose, but it maybe there, the problem is you need the a picture of Smith (Robinson) losing and the result...

[Senya13]

He borrowed his friend's name when he was 14 (that is 1935 to early 1936), he was 16 years old when this fight happened, he was already known as Ray Robinson. What is the possiblity that there was a fighter with the same first and last names in the same area and near or at the same weight division where he fought (he fought Willie Pep the same year, who officially fought as a flyweight in 1938, they must have met at a catchweight).

[TBooze]

He borrowed his friend's name when he was 14 (that is 1935 to early 1936), he was 16 years old when this fight happened, he was already known as Ray Robinson. What is the possiblity that there was a fighter with the same first and last names in the same area and near or at the same weight division where he fought (he fought Willie Pep the same year, who officially fought as a flyweight in 1938, they must have met at a catchweight).

Walker nicked the name from a bootleg boxer, so I am guessing it is far from out of the question that he was not only one to this....

[Senya13]

He did this at least 2 years prior to the fight where he lost, as I already wrote. Since then there was no mention whatsoever of the other Ray Robinson, it also seems the case that the other guy was not as talented as Sugar Ray, ans it's highly unlikely that he'd get past 2 opponents (and stumble at 3rd) in the GG tournament, whereas the Sugar Ray wouldn't not even get into the tournament.

[Cobra33]

Actually Donald Curry's record was 400-5.The last person wo beat him I believe was Ronnie Shields.

[Titan1]

Actually Donald Curry's record was 400-5.The last person wo beat him I believe was Ronnie Shields.

I was thinking he only lost four out of 400 and something fights, so I'm guessing your correct.I remember reading him and McCrory were going to meet up in some amateur tourney, but both lost before their potential matchup.