Calzaghe or Roy Jones, Jr.

[kmcc505]

Who ranks higher all time? I know Joe beat Roy, but he didn't beat the real Roy just an old shell of what was the best fighter I have ever seen. I'm wondering what you UK fans think.

Thank you for your opinions.

[Doyley10]

Are you on a wind up? JC acheived a lot and fair play to him, but RJJ was the best of a generation.

[Grievesy]

RJJ easily.

[mrbassie]

Jones by a margin so large it can be seen from space.

[brown bomber]

Joe Calzaghe

[El Cepillo]

Roy Jones Jr. by a mile.

Calzaghe simply can't compare.

[Broxi]

Rab Jones Jr

[UndisputedUK]

Jones junior.

Won a title at middleweight against Hopkins.
Beat Toney at Supermiddleweight.
Won at lightheavyweight.
Won WBA belt at heavyweight.

Outweighs 10 years of WBO and a few tough fights towards the end.

Was Calzaghe a "light-heavyweight champion" ?

[P4PNo.1]

Roy Jones.

In terms of talent Calzaghe is behind Jones but not by a great deal. But in terms of achievments Jones by a long way

[brown bomber]

Roy Jones.

In terms of talent Calzaghe is behind Jones but not by a great deal. Sorry but............



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

HahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahsahahahahahahahahahaha hHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahaha hHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahaha hHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahah- seriously? or are you been sarcastic... if so good joke... well done

[El Cepillo]

Roy Jones.

In terms of talent Calzaghe is behind Jones but not by a great deal. But in terms of achievments Jones by a long way

In terms of talent Jones is way ahead of anyone you care to mention, including Calzaghe. Calzaghe wasn't "talented" as such, he had certain attributes that made him a very good fighter, but for pure natural talent he wasn't in the same universe as RJJ.

[Darni187]

Rjj

[brown bomber]

It is like comparing Vitali and Ali.....

Pavlik and Robinson

Zab Judah and Pernell Whitiker

One is a great.... one is a talented but flawed fighter..... Protective match making doesn't make you an ATG.

[Doyley10]

It is like comparing Vitali and Ali.....

Pavlik and Robinson

Zab Judah and Pernell Whitiker

One is a great.... one is a talented but flawed fighter..... Protective match making doesn't make you an ATG.

Just so were clear Jeff, Pavlik is JC and Robinson is RJJ right? Your previous "hahahahaha" post didn't indicate clearly who's side you were on.....:D

[brown bomber]

Just so were clear Jeff, Pavlik is JC and Robinson is RJJ right? Your previous "hahahahaha" post didn't indicate clearly who's side you were on.....:DYou may be right:lol:.... This kind of shite makes me feel obliged to tear apart Calzaghes shoddy 'ATG' CV nearly every week... Seriousy can people not just get a grip of themselves.....

I'm looking forward to Froch smoking Taylor this weekend because Taylor beat both Hopkins and Lacy and Froch's subsequent battering of him will add further weight to my argument.

In fact i'm tempted to say that Taylor beat a slightly better version of Lacy then Zaggy did.... Least he tried to win a round instead of coming into the fight a beaten man.

The only argument JC fans will have left is the Kessler one, and in all fairness Kessler would barely have cracked the top ten circa 1995.... Brilliant. 46-0 and what? :fire

Calzaghe better then Jones? Dear oh dear.

[MaliSlamusrex]

I kinda agree with this, but i vote RJJ.

It is like comparing Vitali and Ali.....

Pavlik and Robinson

Zab Judah and Pernell Whitiker

One is a great.... one is a talented but flawed fighter..... Protective match making doesn't make you an ATG.

[Eubank]

Calzaghe by far.

[El Cepillo]

Calzaghe by far.

I hope this is sarcasm :lol:

[kmcc505]

jones by a margin so large it can be seen from space.

rotfl

[Grant1]

You may be right:lol:.... This kind of shite makes me feel obliged to tear apart Calzaghes shoddy 'ATG' CV nearly every week... Seriousy can people not just get a grip of themselves.....

I'm looking forward to Froch smoking Taylor this weekend because Taylor beat both Hopkins and Lacy and Froch's subsequent battering of him will add further weight to my argument.

In fact i'm tempted to say that Taylor beat a slightly better version of Lacy then Zaggy did.... Least he tried to win a round instead of coming into the fight a beaten man.

The only argument JC fans will have left is the Kessler one, and in all fairness Kessler would barely have cracked the top ten circa 1995.... Brilliant. 46-0 and what? :fire

Calzaghe better then Jones? Dear oh dear.

:patsch

[46and0]

In fact i'm tempted to say that Taylor beat a slightly better version of Lacy then Zaggy did.... Least he tried to win a round instead of coming into the fight a beaten man.



Oh dear. What's that flying out of the window? Looks like it's your credibility mate. You better chase it before it goes away!

[D-MAC]

Jones by quite a distance.

[TFFP]

You may be right:lol:.... This kind of shite makes me feel obliged to tear apart Calzaghes shoddy 'ATG' CV nearly every week... Seriousy can people not just get a grip of themselves.....

I'm looking forward to Froch smoking Taylor this weekend because Taylor beat both Hopkins and Lacy and Froch's subsequent battering of him will add further weight to my argument.

In fact i'm tempted to say that Taylor beat a slightly better version of Lacy then Zaggy did.... Least he tried to win a round instead of coming into the fight a beaten man.

The only argument JC fans will have left is the Kessler one, and in all fairness Kessler would barely have cracked the top ten circa 1995.... Brilliant. 46-0 and what? :fire

Calzaghe better then Jones? Dear oh dear.
:shock::patsch:rofl

[Beeston Brawler]

Both are ATG cherrypickers :lol:

[Cobbler]

It is like comparing Vitali and Ali.....

Pavlik and Robinson

Zab Judah and Pernell Whitiker

One is a great.... one is a talented but flawed fighter..... Protective match making doesn't make you an ATG.

So does that exclude RJJ or not? :huh

[socrates]

Who ranks higher all time? I know Joe beat Roy, but he didn't beat the real Roy just an old shell of what was the best fighter I have ever seen. I'm wondering what you UK fans think.

Thank you for your opinions.nahhhh it was a hologram of jones..

you fool.

what you really meant to say:i hate jc because i can no longer chew on roys balls while swinging and singing songs of unsubtle'ty on his roided up scrotum,my alt account acidentallly posted here to start a flamer/agenda driven thread and to suck on british nuts.

roy to calzaghe "boy when i was 29 and you were 27 i could have whooped ya but by some freak of nature i lost it down the years and you didnt,so while i rely on former glories and days of yore to shield my denial you can slap me silly for 12 rounds young man,my fans will always have the prime argument or should that be the excuse clause?"

[brown bomber]

Oh dear. What's that flying out of the window? Looks like it's your credibility mate. You better chase it before it goes away!Watch the fight again.... He does nothng, tries nothing... attempts nothing... He was shocking and didn't fight with anywhere near the tenacity he did against Reid. It wasn't quite the masterclass it seemed. At the time I was pretty shocked but looking in hindsight it really wasn't that impressive. And as for credability I'd rather have an intelligent opinion then be sucked in by a poorly constructed 46-0 record- so much so that I name my avatar after it.... :good

[brown bomber]

:shock::patsch:roflOk... i'll succumb that was a bold statement but watch the fight again... Tell me that LAcy tried to win? He loaded up and didn't let his punched flow. Constant single shots, no head movement. He wasn't the same animal that fought Reid.. Fact

[brown bomber]

nahhhh it was a hologram of jones..

you fool.

what you really meant to say:i hate jc because i can no longer chew on roys balls while swinging and singing songs of unsubtle'ty on his roided up scrotum,my alt account acidentallly posted here to start a flamer/agenda driven thread and to suck on british nuts.

roy to calzaghe "boy when i was 29 and you were 27 i could have whooped ya but by some freak of nature i lost it down the years and you didnt,so while i rely on former glories and days of yore to shield my denial you can slap me silly for 12 rounds young man,my fans will always have the prime argument or should that be the excuse clause?"Lay off the crack. :good

[brown bomber]

So does that exclude RJJ or not? :huhToney, Hopkins, Castro, Vaca, Griffin, Sosa, Malinga, Thornton, Tate, Ruiz, Hill, Del Valle, Tarver and host of other world class fighters.... Who did he avoid?

[brown bomber]

wUiAquXozLM

Calzaghe boxed well but lacy just bulled forward loading up.... Completely the wrong tactics... Its just not as impressive as its made out t be.. Admittedly the crowd noise was loud. So that was good.

[achillesthegreat]

Joe had a much more solid career. He is the best super middleweight ever and linear 175. I think his career might be a bit workman like. He never lost, was the man in the divisions he fought, unified etc

On the flip side you might prefer RJJ jumping up and down in weight despite having some losses.

Personally, I think I prefer Calzaghes. For every impressive thing RJJ did there was a shadow of doubt i.e. amazing win at heavyweight but never fought Lewis. Amazing win over Hopkins and Toney but was never the man in the division.

[socrates]

i favour dariusz over roy at 175 as roy was gifted the vacated titles,DM earned them!

at SMW calzaghe was is and always will be the man.

its interesting how people whine about calzaghe and overated victories how about sparring with john ruiz for 12 rounds and passing it of as 1 of the greatest moments in boxing history while,pleaseeeeeeee...

[socrates]

In fact i'm tempted to say that Taylor beat a slightly better version of Lacy then Zaggy did.... Least he tried to win a round instead of coming into the fight a beaten man.

this comment is why i have often called for the age limit of posters to be set at 12 and above,one is in the upmost turmoil as to wether to ridicule you or pity you following this little gem,and just goes to prove we should take you,your integrity,logic and complete dire lack of objectivity and boxing knowledge to the toilet and flush you down with the tampons.

toodlepip.

[achillesthegreat]

Toney, Hopkins, Castro, Vaca, Griffin, Sosa, Malinga, Thornton, Tate, Ruiz, Hill, Del Valle, Tarver and host of other world class fighters.... Who did he avoid?

Seriously, Jeff???

At 160 he fought Hopkins but it was for a vacant belt and Hopkins is great in hindsight. RJJ isn't God to know X would become great. X would probably be considered the weakest. RJJ never unified.

Great win in Toney, I don't care if Toney can't handle his weight but again he never fought any of the other champs.

At 175 the Darius fight was never made.

Cruiserweight was totally skipped when there were really good champs there like Toney and Jirov.

At heavyweight he handpicked Ruiz and never fought the real man.

There were loads of good rivalries he never really went after i.e. Liles, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Darius etc

RJJ had the opponents available to make him the greatest of all time but the fights weren't made. Take someone like Franke Liles who he had an amateur rivalry with but it never happened in the pro's.

There are god knows how many fights that never happened. There are reasons for all of them, some pro Jones, some anti Jones but there are way too many fights to mention.

[KCD]

At 168:- Joe

P4P all time:- Jones

[El Cepillo]

Joe had a much more solid career. He is the best super middleweight ever and linear 175. I think his career might be a bit workman like. He never lost, was the man in the divisions he fought, unified etc

On the flip side you might prefer RJJ jumping up and down in weight despite having some losses.

Personally, I think I prefer Calzaghes. For every impressive thing RJJ did there was a shadow of doubt i.e. amazing win at heavyweight but never fought Lewis. Amazing win over Hopkins and Toney but was never the man in the division.

Roy Jones has won more world titles, at more weights and has a better resume that Calzaghe.

From 1993-2003 Jones was peerless. He is the first former Middleweight in over a century to move up and win a Heavyweight title. He was also the Undisputed Light-Heavyweight Champion, and was very much 'the man' in almost every division he fought in. Not to mention him being the best pound-for-pound Fighter of the 1990's.

And you wan't to penalize Jones for NOT fighting Lennox Lewis :patsch
Really reaching with that one.

You think Calzaghe winning a WBO title and defending it for most of of his career against a laughable collection of opponents, taking a decade to unify a shallow division, then losing to Hopkins, beating a shot-to-shit legend and then fucking off into retirment is in anyway comprable to what Roy Jones achieved?

Gimme a break. :-(

[KCD]

Calzaghe lost to Hopkins:think

All i saw was one fighter trying to make a fight and the other holding him like a fat kid with a chocolate bar:yep

[El Cepillo]

Calzaghe lost to Hopkins:think

All i saw was one fighter trying to make a fight and the other holding him like a fat kid with a chocolate bar:yep

All I saw was one guy waving his arms, slapping the other guys ear and gloves, and then embarasingly pretending to dry hump his opponent, who himself was landing the cleaner, harder and more accurate punches.

Anyway, even if Calzaghe had KO'd B-Hop, Jones Jr would still be the much better fighter, with the much better career. Anyone arguing the opposite clearly doesn't have a very good grasp on reality.

[socrates]

He was also the Undisputed Light-Heavyweight Champion, and was very much 'the man' in almost every division he fought in.

Gimme a break. without actually fighting the topdog in each of those respective divisions,thats quite an achievement,he has you fooled anywayt!

benn,eubank,mclellan,dariusz m,steve collins,prime calzaghe etc etc!!!!!

give me a fecking break y tool,a green hopkins,overrated fatass toney,and john ruiz i say again john ruiz!!hahahahaha

calzaghe is far from perfect but fuckoff with the jones was the best thing since sliced bread shit,johnson and tarver would have ben boxed silly by calzaghe.enough with the hopkins shit too,no way the excon won that fight no way,it was a laughable display,at least calzaghe actually pushed the fight.

[El Cepillo]

without actually fighting the topdog in each of those respective divisions,thats quite an achievement,he has you fooled anywayt!

benn,eubank,mclellan,dariusz m,steve collins,prime calzaghe etc etc!!!!!

give me a fecking break y tool,a green hopkins,overrated fatass toney,and john ruiz i say again john ruiz!!hahahahaha

calzaghe is far from perfect but fuckoff with the jones was the best thing since sliced bread shit,johnson and tarver would have ben boxed silly by calzaghe.enough with the hopkins shit too,no way the excon won that fight no way,it was a laughable display,at least calzaghe actually pushed the fight.

I'm embarassed on your behalf.

You might want to consider taking one of those adult literacy courses.

[KCD]

Im not saying Calzaghe was better than Jones but i believe he won the fight with Bernard, Hopkins imo wasnt active enough to earn the win. I thought he went there to steal the decision.

And the people who bought into this 'new' Hopkins since the Pavlik fight are underating Calzaghe whilst at the same time they had vastly overated Pavlik.

There was a reason why Hopkins didnt throw more punches and was more aggresive and that is because of Joe.

But i agree that Hopkins landed the cleaner punches, its just he didnt work hard enough to get the verdict imo.

[brown bomber]

this comment is why i have often called for the age limit of posters to be set at 12 and above,one is in the upmost turmoil as to wether to ridicule you or pity you following this little gem,and just goes to prove we should take you,your integrity,logic and complete dire lack of objectivity and boxing knowledge to the toilet and flush you down with the tampons.

toodlepip.:lol:You think that calling yourself 'socrates' and having Karate kid as your avatar is going to add weight to your argument that Calzaghe is better then Jones? Based on what... beating grandpa jones? Beating Euro hypejob Kessler, being awarded a piss poor decision on the back of a crap prformance against Hopkins? And I suppose Michelzewki's up and downer with Montell Griffin persuaded you he'd have too much for Jones... Your speaking tit. So take your Karate kid 3 AVA and fuck off back to the general. Bonsai.

[brown bomber]

Seriously, Jeff???

Would Jones have lost too anyone on Calzaghes resume at the time Calzaghe fought them?

Would he have gone tooth and nail with Hopkins and Reid.

The end.

[El Cepillo]

Im not saying Calzaghe was better than Jones but i believe he won the fight with Bernard, Hopkins imo wasnt active enough to earn the win. I thought he went there to steal the decision.

And the people who bought into this 'new' Hopkins since the Pavlik fight are underating Calzaghe whilst at the same time they had vastly overated Pavlik.

There was a reason why Hopkins didnt throw more punches and was more aggresive and that is because of Joe.

But i agree that Hopkins landed the cleaner punches, its just he didnt work hard enough to get the verdict imo.

I think everyone's opinions about that fight are basically set in stone now. I don't mind if people believe Calzaghe won the fight. I just happen to think differently, because I believe cleaner, more accurate and effective punching is more important than a fighter basically moving his arms a lot. Maybe a draw would have been the most correct result :think

Either way, a split decision over a 43 year old Hopkins is not enough to tip the balance of the scales in Calzaghe's favour in any Jones/Calzaghe comparisons.

[KCD]

I think everyone's opinions about that fight are basically set in stone now. I don't mind if people believe Calzaghe won the fight. I just happen to think differently, because I believe cleaner, more accurate and effective punching is more important than a fighter basically moving his arms a lot. Maybe a draw would have been the most correct result :think

Either way, a split decision over a 43 year old Hopkins is not enough to tip the balance of the scales in Calzaghe's favour in any Jones/Calzaghe comparisons.


No problems it just irks me in the way people say Collazo beat Hatton, they where close fights, but the Calzaghe v Hopkins fight is debatable depending on what your looking for etc:good

But as i said before at 168 i pick Joe for rankings all time and P4P being placed in history its Jones by quite abit.

[socrates]

I'm embarassed on your behalf.

You might want to consider taking one of those adult literacy courses.so far iv come to the frightening conclusion that i am the decisive element in this clasroom we call esb,it is my daily mood which makes the weather here,as the self apointed teacher i feel it is my duty to make a child(you)miserable or joyous,i can be a tool of torture or an instrument of inspiration,i can humiliate or humour,hurt or heel,im all situations it is my resoponse which decides wether a crisis is escalated or de-escalated and a child humanized or de-humanized...

now rather than showing concern for my needs,talking semantics and showing us all what a petulant,pedantic,dogmatic and slightly neurotic dimwit you actually are i suggest you,fuckoff before my pulse rate averages 35 bpm

you have more chance of owning a free gift than of owning me,toodlepip.

do not expect a reply im doing brunch with nancy.

[brown bomber]

ts not even an argement.... My Favourite line that keeps coming up is....

Calzaghe is the Greatest in the history of the Super Middleweight division

Wow.... You mean the 25 year old super middleweight division that had literally no decent ATG claimants. I suppose Kessler must be the second ATG super middle then? or did you go for Sven Ottke? Maybe Dingaan Thobela? Steve Collins? Nigel Benn? Chris Eubank? Jeff Lacy? Frankie Liles, Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer, Vincenzo Nardiello, Sugar Boy Malinga?.... Quality fighters-yes.... ATGs- no.....

[socrates]

as for the troglodite who calls himself jeff whatever..

We tend to scoff at the beliefs of fools such as yourself. But we cant scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me....

though i will drop you a line from time to time,at my discretion not yours.

[El Cepillo]

so far iv come to the frightening conclusion that i am the decisive element in this clasroom we call esb,it is my daily mood which makes the weather here,as the self apointed teacher i feel it is my duty to make a child(you)miserable or joyous,i can be a tool of torture or an instrument of inspiration,i can humiliate or humour,hurt or heel,im all situations it is my resoponse which decides wether a crisis is escalated or de-escalated and a child humanized or de-humanized...

now rather than showing concern for my needs,talking semantics and showing us all what a petulant,pedantic,dogmatic and slightly neurotic dimwit you actually are i suggest you,fuckoff before my pulse rate averages 35 bpm

you have more chance of owning a free gift than of owning me,toodlepip.

do not expect a reply im doing brunch with nancy.

Given the poor quality of your last post in this topic I'm not actually going to bother reading this one.

[El Cepillo]

ts not even an argement.... My Favourite line that keeps coming up is....

Calzaghe is the Greatest in the history of the Super Middleweight division

Wow.... You mean the 25 year old super middleweight division that had literally no decent ATG claimants. I suppose Kessler must be the second ATG super middle then? or did you go for Sven Ottke? Maybe Dingaan Thobela? Steve Collins? Nigel Benn? Chris Eubank? Jeff Lacy? Frankie Liles, Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer, Vincenzo Nardiello, Sugar Boy Malinga?.... Quality fighters-yes.... ATGs- no.....

:lol:

[brown bomber]

jjjjjI'd have deleted that to... what a tit. :lol:

[brown bomber]

now rather than showing concern for my needs,talking semantics and showing us all what a petulant,pedantic,dogmatic and slightly neurotic dimwit you actually are i suggest you,fuckoff before my pulse rate averages 35 bpm

I bet he's shitting himself.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[brown bomber]

as for the troglodite who calls himself jeff whatever..

We tend to scoff at the beliefs of fools such as yourself. But we cant scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me....

though i will drop you a line from time to time,at my discretion not yours.:lol:You should have left ot deleted...Fair play... quite funny. You don't know Plow do you?:yep

[socrates]

Due to circumstances within my control, tomorrow will be cancelled.

jeff thomas:"My mom was a ventriloquist & she always was throwing her voice. For ten years I thought the dog was telling me to kill my father"

now run forest run.

[socrates]

:lol:You think that calling yourself 'socrates' and having Karate kid as your avatar is going to add weight to your argument that Calzaghe is better then Jones? Based on what... beating grandpa jones? Beating Euro hypejob Kessler, being awarded a piss poor decision on the back of a crap prformance against Hopkins? And I suppose Michelzewki's up and downer with Montell Griffin persuaded you he'd have too much for Jones... Your speaking tit. So take your Karate kid 3 AVA and fuck off back to the general. Bonsai.my work here is done.

nobody comes close.

except god.

[dwilson]

RJJ is a possible top 20 ATG while JC is a possible British top 20 ATG if he is lucky.


Anyone who thinks JC deserves to be on any ATG list is a prick.

[brown bomber]

Due to circumstances within my control, tomorrow will be cancelled.

jeff thomas:"My mom was a ventriloquist & she always was throwing her voice. For ten years I thought the dog was telling me to kill my father"

now run forest run.:huh

These people can help you.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[brown bomber]

my work here is done.If your objective was to enter a forum... make an anus of yourself by offering a poorly supported opinion and type it in such a way that no-one who reads it will ever take you seriously again- ever. Then you have indeed completed your 'work'. :good

[brown bomber]

RJJ is a possible top 20 ATG while JC is a possible British top 20 ATG if he is lucky.


Anyone who thinks JC deserves to be on any ATG list is a prick.:scaredas::good He's not even in the top twenty from wales.

[socrates]

If your objective was to enter a forum... make an anus of yourself by offering a poorly supported opinion and type it in such a way that no-one who reads it will ever take you seriously again- ever. Then you have indeed completed your 'work'. :goodCondoms aren’t completely safe. A friend of mine was wearing one and got hit by a bus.

you have been warned!


jeff Always remember youre unique, just like everyone else.

[dwilson]

:scaredas::good He's not even in the top twenty from wales.



Jeez If I could be bothered I am sure I could find 10 boxers from Wales that could go above him but 20? Nah. :good



WTF is socrates? :silly

[socrates]

:scaredas::good He's not even in the top twenty from wales.
Suicide is the most sincere form of self-criticism.

try it.

[socrates]

a wise man writes down what he thinks, a stupid man forgets what he thinks, a complete idiot punishes himself for what he thinks.

il keep writing you lot do the rest.

fight amongst yourselves il be somewhere over the raindbow getting fucked by the tin man,:D

[brown bomber]

Lol. Wow your a bit of a nut aren't you....

[manbearpig]

:scaredas::good He's not even in the top twenty from wales.
Bullshit.

He's top 5 ATG in Britain.


Jones shits all over him in any case.

[brown bomber]

Bullshit.

:good

[brown bomber]

a wise man writes down what he thinks, a stupid man forgets what he thinks, a complete idiot punishes himself for what he thinks.

il keep writing you lot do the rest.

fight amongst yourselves il be somewhere over the raindbow getting fucked by the tin man,:D

TulxjdKsROI

[toffeejack]

It is like comparing Vitali and Ali.....

Pavlik and Robinson

Zab Judah and Pernell Whitiker

One is a great.... one is a talented but flawed fighter..... Protective match making doesn't make you an ATG.

Ridiculously harsh.

Obviously Jones ranks higher. He went from middleweight to heavyweight champion. Brilliant.

Calzaghe was also a brilliant fighter. The protective match making with regards to Joe is also exaggerated.

As a former pro boxer yourself Jeff I find it strange that you never take into consideration what Joe Calzaghe had to go through to get where he did. He was advised not to even turn pro because of his hand troubles. Then when he did he had a very impressive KO/stoppage ratio in his early days with the troubles. Then when the hand troubles got so bad that he had to either retire or radically adjust his style he did the latter and to great success.

A lot of people on here concentrate on the negatives instead of the positives with regards to Calzaghe's career and it's pretty fucking sad.

If there is ever a role model which aspiring british boxers should look up to with regards to living your life inside and outside the ring then look no further than Joe Calzaghe. The man is a legend and rightly so.

[TFFP]

Jones would win clearly on points.

Just a note, Jones does not fair that well under pressure. Of the better fighters he fought, none were natural pressure fighters. Toney is a mid-range counterpuncher and inside fighter, Hopins is a defensive counterpuncher. When forced to lead off due to Jones athletic gifts they were redundant.

Calzaghe can pressurize Jones, and he was one of the few with the speed to get near him. Jones wouldn't have liked that.

[nicofly]

Pointless post and absolute no brainer..... RJJ without question..

[brown bomber]

Ridiculously harsh.

Obviously Jones ranks higher. He went from middleweight to heavyweight champion. Brilliant.

Calzaghe was also a brilliant fighter. The protective match making with regards to Joe is also exaggerated.

As a former pro boxer yourself Jeff I find it strange that you never take into consideration what Joe Calzaghe had to go through to get where he did. He was advised not to even turn pro because of his hand troubles. Then when he did he had a very impressive KO/stoppage ratio in his early days with the troubles. Then when the hand troubles got so bad that he had to either retire or radically adjust his style he did the latter and to great success.

A lot of people on here concentrate on the negatives instead of the positives with regards to Calzaghe's career and it's pretty fucking sad.

If there is ever a role model which aspiring british boxers should look up to with regards to living your life inside and outside the ring then look no further than Joe Calzaghe. The man is a legend and rightly so. Mate... your a fan I respect that thats why I rarely take issue with anything you say.. But I don't buy the legend rubbish. He's simply not as great as some people make out.... I'm sure he's a good guy and he did have a fabulous career but that this thread has reached 4-5 pages illustrates the fact that he is soooo over-rated. Comparing him to Jones is ridiculous.

[brown bomber]

Areyou sure TFFP.... i'm pretty certain every fighter that pressured him at SM got KO'd

[Axl_Nose]

Jones would win clearly on points.

Just a note, Jones does not fair that well under pressure. Of the better fighters he fought, none were natural pressure fighters. Toney is a mid-range counterpuncher and inside fighter, Hopins is a defensive counterpuncher. When forced to lead off due to Jones athletic gifts they were redundant.

Calzaghe can pressurize Jones, and he was one of the few with the speed to get near him. Jones wouldn't have liked that.

I think thats a great post with some interesting points. Whats the point in people coming on here and posting 'Jones is great, Calzaghe is a prick' ?
We all know that Jones is the better fighter, the better boxer and will go down in history as one of the true all time greats.
Calzaghe on the other hand will go down as a guy who dominated a weak division and for the most part of his career always took the easier safer options.
As far as a prime for prime matchup, i dont see this being close at all. It would all depend on what frame of mind Jones was in. If he wanted to toy with Joe and showboat then this could go 12, if he was fired up and wanted to make a statement then he could knock Joe out in a few rounds.
Jones and Mayweather are the best 2 boxers since Ray Leonard, Calzaghe made the most of his considerable ability but hes nowere near Jones's league ..

[achillesthegreat]

Would Jones have lost too anyone on Calzaghes resume at the time Calzaghe fought them?

Would he have gone tooth and nail with Hopkins and Reid.

The end.

What Jones would have done is an opinion, what he did do is fact.

Would Calzaghe have gone tooth and nail with Griffin and Tarver?

The end.

[achillesthegreat]

Roy Jones has won more world titles, at more weights and has a better resume that Calzaghe.

From 1993-2003 Jones was peerless. He is the first former Middleweight in over a century to move up and win a Heavyweight title. He was also the Undisputed Light-Heavyweight Champion, and was very much 'the man' in almost every division he fought in. Not to mention him being the best pound-for-pound Fighter of the 1990's.

And you wan't to penalize Jones for NOT fighting Lennox Lewis :patsch
Really reaching with that one.

You think Calzaghe winning a WBO title and defending it for most of of his career against a laughable collection of opponents, taking a decade to unify a shallow division, then losing to Hopkins, beating a shot-to-shit legend and then fucking off into retirment is in anyway comprable to what Roy Jones achieved?

Gimme a break. :-(
'Titles' made him a somebody but Joe was 'the man'.

From 1993 to 2003 RJJ had many rivals but he didn't fight them. RJJ got himself on top after the Toney bout and never really took the risks that could lose him that spot. I'm talking in a historical sense and I'm assessing his legacy. RJJ is one of the few who could be considered the best and stay the best based on weak work. The others couldn't challenge him cos they were fighting great fights and losing because of the tough match ups.

First former middleweight to win at heavy you say? Going back to the 'titles' you mention, he beat a WBA champ. Someone who won a vacant belt. Someone considered a top 10 contender despite being a champ. RJJ did the equivilent of what many did before him but trinkets weren't around for them to call themselves champ.

Lewis was one in a long line of fighters that RJJ didn't fight. LOADS of small fighters moved up and beat contenders BUT very few moved up and beat the man.

Wholes can be picked in everyones resume but Calzaghe was a champ who needed Ottke to step up. When Ottke was out of the picture, Joe got his chance to beat on new young undefeated champs. It probably helped his legacy. He is the best 160 ever. Thinking Joe lost to Hopkins gives us glimpses of bias.

[achillesthegreat]

ts not even an argement.... My Favourite line that keeps coming up is....

Calzaghe is the Greatest in the history of the Super Middleweight division

Wow.... You mean the 25 year old super middleweight division that had literally no decent ATG claimants. I suppose Kessler must be the second ATG super middle then? or did you go for Sven Ottke? Maybe Dingaan Thobela? Steve Collins? Nigel Benn? Chris Eubank? Jeff Lacy? Frankie Liles, Byron Mitchell, Charles Brewer, Vincenzo Nardiello, Sugar Boy Malinga?.... Quality fighters-yes.... ATGs- no.....

Same division that housed Hearns, Leonard, Jones, McClellan, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Toney and a host of other greats. Only problem is none of them could or did put together the legacy that Joe did.

[achillesthegreat]

Taylor beat a better version of Lacy? I've heard it all!

[Rebel-INS]

Same division that housed Hearns, Leonard, Jones, McClellan, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Toney and a host of other greats. Only problem is none of them could or did put together the legacy that Joe did.


Please tell me that's a joke?

[KCD]

I cant believe all the hate for a British legend by fellow Brits:-(

I have stated i think Jones would have UD Joe but for everyone who is slating Calzaghes resume at 168 Jones was awful aswell and brief.

at 168 Jones fought
Thornton :- 37-6-1
Sosa :- 26-4-2
Lucas :- 19-2-2
Brannon :- 16-0
Byrd :- 26-4-1
Paz :- 40-5

Now forgive me for saying but that is hardly a hall of fame run, non of the guys where greats or ever went far in their careers and established themselves as good champions with quality reigns.

Its easy to tear apart Joes resume but Jones at 168 was weak.

Also at 175 he defended against the following legends:- Otis Grant, Fraizier, Telesco and Hall, i mean yes Jones is an all time great but he has some serious flaws in his resume aswell.

[P4PNo.1]

If they fought in their primes Jones wins a UD.

[196osh]

This thread is insane.

Do a comparison between their best 5 oponents and then you will see the gap in class.

[boxingcar]

fanboys....rjj & calzaghe fanboys...that's what this whole thread is all about. No one's really interested about their careers , their ups and downs.... eastsideboxing fanboys never fail to amaze me with their horseshit...

[JonOli]

I'm going to have to go with Jones on this one. :D

[46and0]

Watch the fight again.... He does nothng, tries nothing... attempts nothing... He was shocking and didn't fight with anywhere near the tenacity he did against Reid. It wasn't quite the masterclass it seemed. At the time I was pretty shocked but looking in hindsight it really wasn't that impressive. And as for credability I'd rather have an intelligent opinion then be sucked in by a poorly constructed 46-0 record- so much so that I name my avatar after it.... :good

He did nothing because Calzaghe was swarming all over him. He was completely outclassed. The fact that you are trying to deny that shows you have a personal dislike for Calzaghe which borders on the deluded.

Oh, and I think you mean screen-name if you want to be smart. An avatar is a photograph. :good

[kmcc505]

Thanks to everyone's replies. I should say I had Jones down as superior but wanted to make sure I wasn't being overly biased as a fan of his growing up. Roy Jones was peerless in the ring and the best fighter I have ever seen.

[Axl_Nose]

Same division that housed Hearns, Leonard, Jones, McClellan, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Toney and a host of other greats. Only problem is none of them could or did put together the legacy that Joe did.

The legacy that Joe put together was based on The Super-Middleweight WBO world title .. Everybody knows that the Super Middleweight division is a stepping stone from Middleweight to Light Heavy, 2 'history' divisions .. So when you include Toney and Jones as 'Super Middles' your failing to acknowledge that these 2 guys had zero respect for the 168 division and used it strictly as a steady jump to 175 .. Do you really believe that Roy Jones and James Toney wouldnt have dominated at 168 if they're bodies could have boiled down to that weight ..
The facts remain that Joe Calzaghe and the Frank ****** machine stayed on the WBO/168 road because it was so easy getting in guys like Tocker Pudwell and Will 'Kidfire' Mcintyre as defences, in the states these fights wouldnt have sold 2000 seats but we brits support our guys no matter what, and ****** manipulates that fact.
Calzaghe never had the bottle to go to the states to hunt for a big fight, he was happy to take his paydays against nobodies kinda like Sven Ottke's strategy and Dariusz Michaelchewski ..

Comparing Calzaghe to Jones is ridiculous, people just have to watch films of them fighting to realise that Jones was an ATG with reflex's that has never been seen before. Joe was a great fighter but his fans are praying every night that Mikkel Kessler stops hiding under his bed in Denmark and finally starts to make his mark, if Kessler becomes a great fighter then Joe's legacy becomes even greater .. I remember when Calzaghe had all kinds of problems with Robin Reid, now does anybody believe a Prime Jones would have difficulty with Reid ??
It seems that people's memory's are being clouded by the fact that Roy Jones has been a shell of his former self since the Ruiz fight, but you have to remember the way he dominated in the 90s, he was PFP king for 7 years, the only reason why he had so many 12 round fights was that he toyed, clowned and showboated with his opponents to give the crowd they're money's worth .. If he had a ferocious attitude to go with his stellar talent he could have knocked all these guys out in a few rounds ..
Roy Jones was a special talent and its an insult to boxing fans to put Joe Calzaghe in the same sentence and i am not American

[El Cepillo]

'Titles' made him a somebody but Joe was 'the man'.

From 1993 to 2003 RJJ had many rivals but he didn't fight them. RJJ got himself on top after the Toney bout and never really took the risks that could lose him that spot. I'm talking in a historical sense and I'm assessing his legacy. RJJ is one of the few who could be considered the best and stay the best based on weak work. The others couldn't challenge him cos they were fighting great fights and losing because of the tough match ups.

First former middleweight to win at heavy you say? Going back to the 'titles' you mention, he beat a WBA champ. Someone who won a vacant belt. Someone considered a top 10 contender despite being a champ. RJJ did the equivilent of what many did before him but trinkets weren't around for them to call themselves champ.

Lewis was one in a long line of fighters that RJJ didn't fight. LOADS of small fighters moved up and beat contenders BUT very few moved up and beat the man.

Wholes can be picked in everyones resume but Calzaghe was a champ who needed Ottke to step up. When Ottke was out of the picture, Joe got his chance to beat on new young undefeated champs. It probably helped his legacy. He is the best 160 ever. Thinking Joe lost to Hopkins gives us glimpses of bias.


Why can some people just not accept that Jones is the better fighter. He beat better fighters. He won more world titles, at more weights. These are indisputable facts.

Is objectivity really so hard to come by these days?

The fact that people, like this fool, are even trying to argue that Calzaghe is/was better than Jones is just laughable, and generally reeks of idiocy and nuthuggery of epic proportions.

[Cobbler]

Why can some people just not accept that Jones is the better fighter. He beat better fighters. He won more world titles, at more weights. These are indisputable facts.

Is objectivity really so hard to come by these days?


Objectively speaking, the first claim is clearly an opinion rather than a fact....

[El Cepillo]

Objectively speaking, the first claim is clearly an opinion rather than a fact....

Objectivley speaking, the use of the word "claim" preceded by the word "first" suggests that what follows the first "claim" is in fact not a fact, but a claim. It is not a claim to claim that Roy Jones has won more world titles than the Legendary Joe Calzaghe. Nor is a "claim" that he won world titles at a greater number of weights. The only claim that is a legitimate claim is the claim that Roy Jones has the superior resume and beat better fighters. It is a claim based on the available facts....

At what point does an opinion become a fact? Lots of people were of the opinion that Adolph Hitler was a very bad man. I suppose this is just an opinion. It may be based on objective reasoning and straight forward conclusions, but technically it is simply a claim, and not in fact, an actual fact, but merely an opinion non the less.

Mikkel Kessler ain't no James Toney, and Joe Calzaghe sure as hell ain't no Roy Jones Jr. But that's just my opinion, based on facts, not just a claim, based on opinion.

[Words]

Jones. End of thread.

[Axl_Nose]

Objectivley speaking, the use of the word "claim" preceded by the word "first" suggests that what follows the first "claim" is in fact not a fact, but a claim. It is not a claim to claim that Roy Jones has won more world titles than the Legendary Joe Calzaghe. Nor is a "claim" that he won world titles at a greater number of weights. The only claim that is a legitimate claim is the claim that Roy Jones has the superior resume and beat better fighters. It is a claim based on the available facts....

At what point does an opinion become a fact? Lots of people were of the opinion that Adolph Hitler was a very bad man. I suppose this is just an opinion. It may be based on objective reasoning and straight forward conclusions, but technically it is simply a claim, and not in fact, an actual fact, but merely an opinion non the less.

Mikkel Kessler ain't no James Toney, and Joe Calzaghe sure as hell ain't no Roy Jones Jr. But that's just my opinion, based on facts, not just a claim, based on opinion.

Hoya im with you, comparing Calzaghe to Jones makes me laugh hysterically .. I find it amazinhe aig that people forget how good Jones was in the 90's .. If you watch Jones in his 90's prime, your watching poetry in motion, he aint Leonard but with Floyd, he's easy the best of the last 25 years .. Calzaghe is a great fighter but in no way does he compare to Roy ....

[Cobbler]

At what point does an opinion become a fact? Lots of people were of the opinion that Adolph Hitler was a very bad man. I suppose this is just an opinion. It may be based on objective reasoning and straight forward conclusions, but technically it is simply a claim, and not in fact, an actual fact, but merely an opinion non the less.


Of course it is. A widely held one, but an opinion nevertheless. You'd probably come across as less of a twat if you didn't so often announce your opinions as facts, just by way of observation.

[Flea Man]

Jones is 23rd in my ATG list.

Calzaghe doesn't make the top 100, and I'm a fan who went down to Wales and cheered Joe like mad in the Kessler fight.

But let's be serious.

[McGrain]

Same as Fleaman.

Jones, top 30, Calzaghe, somewhere between 95 and 115. He may have crept into my 100 now, but he'll never break 90.

[LosG]

Roy in his prime, was the best i've ever seen in my lifetime. And HONESTLY in my top 8 of all time (if not 5). I dont care how many times he goes on about it, what he achieved is something that i dont think will ever happen again, regardless of the shape of the heaviweight division.

[Axl_Nose]

Roy in his prime, was the best i've ever seen in my lifetime. And HONESTLY in my top 8 of all time (if not 5). I dont care how many times he goes on about it, what he achieved is something that i dont think will ever happen again, regardless of the shape of the heaviweight division.

Losg thats a great post .. Dont ever let the idiots on here sway your opinions .. Morons like Cobbler and TFFP will try and intimidate you because they have thousands of posts but between you and me, they know nothing and are full of shit, i laugh at most of they're posts because of they're ignorance .... Losg you post what you think, never let your opinion be swayed by the bums on here .. Take it easy mate

[brown bomber]

Achilles- seriously?

[TheUzi]

Calzaghe said after the Mitchell fight he wanted Bernard Hopkins....

I dont think people realise how hard it is to make fights.

I also completely believe that JC beat a better version of Hopkins than Jones did.

[achillesthegreat]

Why can some people just not accept that Jones is the better fighter. He beat better fighters. He won more world titles, at more weights. These are indisputable facts.

Is objectivity really so hard to come by these days?

The fact that people, like this fool, are even trying to argue that Calzaghe is/was better than Jones is just laughable, and generally reeks of idiocy and nuthuggery of epic proportions.

:lol:

I believe that is my cue to exit.

[El Cepillo]

Of course it is. A widely held one, but an opinion nevertheless. You'd probably come across as less of a twat if you didn't so often announce your opinions as facts, just by way of observation.


Oh fuck me, the shame. :roll: