Is there a LHW who would have stood a chance with Tyson?

[McGrain]

If so, who?

And if your answer is no, explain why many great heavyweights (Louis, Liston, Dempsey etc) are vulnerable to LHW challenges but Tyson was not?

1 - Ali
2 - Louis
3 - Liston
4 - Johnson
5 - Lewis
6 - Frazier
7 - Jeffries
8 - Hollyfield
9 - Tyson
0 - Holmes.

This is my top ten heavyweights.

[Russell]

I might give Tunney the advantage over post Prison Tyson.

Beautiful footwork to stay away from the much slower than he was in his prime Tyson (Look at how he kept away from Dempsey) great recovery powers, solid enough power, beautiful mind for boxing, willpower...

I wouldn't give him an overwhelming majority, and I doubt he could take a majority over prime Tyson... But post Prison Tyson... Maybe.

[Robbi]

If so, who?

And if your answer is no, explain why many great heavyweights (Louis, Liston, Dempsey etc) are vulnerable to LHW challenges but Tyson was not?

1 - Ali
2 - Louis
3 - Liston
4 - Johnson
5 - Lewis
6 - Frazier
7 - Jeffries
8 - Hollyfield
9 - Tyson
0 - Holmes.

This is my top ten heavyweights.

Liston too high on your list, and Holmes not high enough. Tyson is doing very well squeezing into your top 10.

[Nick Balsamo]

If so, who?

And if your answer is no, explain why many great heavyweights (Louis, Liston, Dempsey etc) are vulnerable to LHW challenges but Tyson was not?

1 - Ali
2 - Louis
3 - Liston
4 - Johnson
5 - Lewis
6 - Frazier
7 - Jeffries
8 - Hollyfield
9 - Tyson
0 - Holmes.

This is my top ten heavyweights.

No Foreman, Marciano or Dempsey ?

[McGrain]

No Foreman, Marciano or Dempsey ?

11 Dempsey
12 Foreman
13 Marciano

As you ask...:D

[McGrain]

Liston too high on your list, and Holmes not high enough. Tyson is doing very well squeezing into your top 10.

Shouldn't have put my list in there, just going to get a load of questions about it and less responses to the original topic! I guess I did it to show that I pick no LHW over Tyson myself but I'm not a Tyson nut hugger.

But I do pick LHW's over Louis etc.

I see very few HW's beating Liston. In fact I think he'd beat more guys from an ATG HW list than an ATG LHW list...maybe.

Holmes, I think I probably do underestimate him a bit, but it's my list and there you go...

[JohnThomas1]

No, there's not.

[fists of fury]

As Flabby Gut said, Tyson had that speed which was the killer. Most light heavyweights use their illusiveness and guile to beat the bigger, slower heavyweight, but Tyson had that amazing handspeed that nullified the smaller man's advantages.

I'm not saying that no light heavy in history stood a chance, but he'd have to be a great man fighting a great fight and Tyson would have to be in less than great condition.

[janitor]

I think it is theoreticaly posible even on the night he beat Spinks.

It would require a light heavyweight of exceptional speed, durability and defensive guile who wantes it really really badly. They would have to fight to survive for the first few rounds and then worry about scoring later.

One name who I would put forward as a possible is Gene Tunney. The cruiseweight version especialy would have a fighting chance.

Incidentaly do they have to weigh in at under 175 lbs?

[McGrain]

No, there's not.


What about the other part of the question JT?

[McGrain]

One name who I would put forward as a possible is Gene Tunney. The cruiseweight version especialy would have a fighting chance.

I think Gene would get blasted out Janitor; not even he can back up more quickly than Tyson would come on. And what other plan is there for him?

Incidentaly do they have to weigh in at under 175 lbs?

No, no. Tyson comes in at his best, Berbick or Spinks as you say. Your LHW can come in at any weight he pleases.

[janitor]

[quote=McGrain]I think Gene would get blasted out Janitor; not even he can back up more quickly than Tyson would come on. And what other plan is there for him?


I don't think he would be. Tunney studied his oponents, somtimes over a period of years before he fought them and was as cool as a cucumber. He would analyse Tysons weakneses and see them all. One factor that would not be lost on him is that Tyson lacked a suite of infighting skills and was easy to tie up.

Tunneys plan would be to not let Tyson do what he wanted. He would not let Tyson jump him early and would try to make it into a distence fight.


No, no. Tyson comes in at his best, Berbick or Spinks as you say. Your LHW can come in at any weight he pleases.


This makes Tunneys job significantly easier. He matured into a full blown cruiserweight of 190 lbs and had the frame to carry 200+. At this weight he would probably be able to neutralize Tyson in the clinches over the early rounds.

[Senya13]

Prime Tyson - none.

[Stewbear]

Roy Jones KO 3

[JohnThomas1]

What about the other part of the question JT?


Ok. Tyson lost nothing on speed to light heavyweights, his hand speed is fantastic.

Tyson had an excellent defense to say the least at his best and it was a defense based arounf forward movement. Bad news.

Tyson's chin is granite when it comes to the chances of a light heavyweight stopping him. Light heavies will simply not have enough to deter him or gain enough respect.

Tyson's power is going to be hell to guys that are natural 175'ers, Spinks had a damn fine chin at light heavy.

At his best Tyson's speed of foot, pure aggression and ability to cut off the ring is going to be murder on a lighter guy trying to survive early.

Last but sure not least, Tyson is a fantastic body puncher at his greatest, enormous power, doesn't forget to go there and often has open targets due to his extreme fight ending danger upstairs.

In short - Tyson is hell on earth to these guys. All of them. People can argue and bring up the glory days all they like but these guys simply aren't going to be able to take Tyson out. He sin't going to respect them either. Joe Louis had his troubles at times vs fleet footed lighter boxers who happened to be great as well. Joe was a little ponderous of foot and could be troubled for a time by these types. Tyson with his uber aggressive style and much faster feet just ain't gonna stand for this action. I can see him blowing out many a big name 175 in no time at all.

[McGrain]

Nice post John.

[janitor]

Ok. Tyson lost nothing on speed to light heavyweights, his hand speed is fantastic.

Tyson had an excellent defense to say the least at his best and it was a defense based arounf forward movement. Bad news.

Tyson's chin is granite when it comes to the chances of a light heavyweight stopping him. Light heavies will simply not have enough to deter him or gain enough respect.

Tyson's power is going to be hell to guys that are natural 175'ers, Spinks had a damn fine chin at light heavy.

At his best Tyson's speed of foot, pure aggression and ability to cut off the ring is going to be murder on a lighter guy trying to survive early.

Last but sure not least, Tyson is a fantastic body puncher at his greatest, enormous power, doesn't forget to go there and often has open targets due to his extreme fight ending danger upstairs.

In short - Tyson is hell on earth to these guys. All of them. People can argue and bring up the glory days all they like but these guys simply aren't going to be able to take Tyson out. He sin't going to respect them either. Joe Louis had his troubles at times vs fleet footed lighter boxers who happened to be great as well. Joe was a little ponderous of foot and could be troubled for a time by these types. Tyson with his uber aggressive style and much faster feet just ain't gonna stand for this action. I can see him blowing out many a big name 175 in no time at all.

There is no horse that cannot be rode and no cowboy that cannot be throwed.

[McGrain]

There is no horse that cannot be rode and no cowboy that cannot be throwed.

:lol:

[ChrisPontius]

Ok. Tyson lost nothing on speed to light heavyweights, his hand speed is fantastic.

Tyson had an excellent defense to say the least at his best and it was a defense based arounf forward movement. Bad news.

Tyson's chin is granite when it comes to the chances of a light heavyweight stopping him. Light heavies will simply not have enough to deter him or gain enough respect.

Tyson's power is going to be hell to guys that are natural 175'ers, Spinks had a damn fine chin at light heavy.

At his best Tyson's speed of foot, pure aggression and ability to cut off the ring is going to be murder on a lighter guy trying to survive early.

Last but sure not least, Tyson is a fantastic body puncher at his greatest, enormous power, doesn't forget to go there and often has open targets due to his extreme fight ending danger upstairs.

In short - Tyson is hell on earth to these guys. All of them. People can argue and bring up the glory days all they like but these guys simply aren't going to be able to take Tyson out. He sin't going to respect them either. Joe Louis had his troubles at times vs fleet footed lighter boxers who happened to be great as well. Joe was a little ponderous of foot and could be troubled for a time by these types. Tyson with his uber aggressive style and much faster feet just ain't gonna stand for this action. I can see him blowing out many a big name 175 in no time at all.

Seconded.
Tunney is the most logic choice, but Tunney nearly got knocked out by a far past his best Dempsey, who threw a Tyson-like combination. I don't see him lasting with Tyson.

Langford i have never seen (in decent quality) but on paper, he should also be considered.

If forced to pick one, i would go with the heavyweight version of Ezzard Charles. He fought quite like Holyfield so maybe he can use that stylistically. But i'm afraid he'd get knocked out and lack the physical strength that Holyfield had, to push Tyson around.

[sandwichsurgeon]

Holyfield started at 177lbs.........

[McGrain]

Holyfield started at 177lbs.........


This is an excellent point. Hollyfield is not a million miles from LHW. And I would pick him to beat every version of Tyson.

Ofcourse Hollyfield is pretty extraordinary.

[janitor]

OK guys.

If Michael Spinks came to me after he was knocked out by Tyson and asked me to train him for a re match I would tell him that I did not think it likley that he would win but that it was not an impossible goal.

[janitor]

I doubt it. I don't think any man under 200 pounds is going to beat a prime Tyson. Besides, Tyson's speed and punching power is devastating even to the big heavy's..it'd be damn near life-ending for a LHW.

You would not have to look far to find sombody under 200lbs who could beat Tyson.

[Cojimar 1945]

James Toney was able to take punches from top contenders at heavyweight when he was getting quite old. How do people explain this?

[PowerPuncher]

James Toney was able to take punches from top contenders at heavyweight when he was getting quite old. How do people explain this?

Defense, chin, steroids and he wasn't in against the very best

[PowerPuncher]

Holyfield was a LHW in the olympics. Evander did his share of roids along the way though

[JohnThomas1]

This is an excellent point. Hollyfield is not a million miles from LHW. And I would pick him to beat every version of Tyson.

Ofcourse Hollyfield is pretty extraordinary.

Yes but Holyfield didn't really start at 177, grew away from that weight FAST and was not even comparable later to the fighter he was at 177. Relistically Holyfield was never even close to being a light heavyweight, he didn't even fight there let alone do anything. Look at where Duran and Robinson started for a very short time in their infancy. Holyfield is a far bigger man naturally than the guys i am looking at and TBH i don't even remotely consider him here.

[Luigi1985]

I think Tunney would have an excellent chance to beat Tyson, so would Conn...

[Shareef]

I don't think any light heavyweight could beat Tyson not that it is impossible but i would highly doubt it. The main reason is that Tyson would be able to overwhelm smaller men than himself.

[janitor]

Lets look at what it would take.

If a light heavyweight could somehow evade Tysons initial asult in the first four rounds then he could plausibly take control of the fight after that and win.

If a light heavyweight were strong enough to neutralize Tyson in the clinces then he could last the distence and win by decision or late knockout.

Then least likeley there is a chance that some light heavyweight might beable to hold his own toe to toe with Tyson by pressing him on the inside.

If you reject any of these possibilities then the answer to the thread is no.

[ironchamp]

This is an excellent point. Hollyfield is not a million miles from LHW. And I would pick him to beat every version of Tyson.

Ofcourse Hollyfield is pretty extraordinary.

Holyfield has a very insignificant portion of his career at Light Heavy Weight. Even so at 177 he woudlnt have the strength necessary to move Tyson around like he did in 96.

I seriously doubt that a Light Heavy could have beaten Tyson, Not Moore, not Charles, not Foster not Tunney- although Gene might have one of the best shots at doing so.

[JohnThomas1]

There is no horse that cannot be rode and no cowboy that cannot be throwed.

Yes, but can that A+++++++++++ horse be rode by a C level rider?

[JohnThomas1]

Lets look at what it would take.

If a light heavyweight could somehow evade Tysons initial asult in the first four rounds then he could plausibly take control of the fight after that and win.

If a light heavyweight were strong enough to neutralize Tyson in the clinces then he could last the distence and win by decision or late knockout.

Then least likeley there is a chance that some light heavyweight might beable to hold his own toe to toe with Tyson by pressing him on the inside.

If you reject any of these possibilities then the answer to the thread is no.

There's more if's there than i care to count mate.

[Holmes' Jab]

I might give Tunney the advantage over post Prison Tyson.

Beautiful footwork to stay away from the much slower than he was in his prime Tyson (Look at how he kept away from Dempsey) great recovery powers, solid enough power, beautiful mind for boxing, willpower...

I wouldn't give him an overwhelming majority, and I doubt he could take a majority over prime Tyson... But post Prison Tyson... Maybe.

Good point.

Tunney would most likely be one of the only LHW's I'd give a realistic 'live' chance, though even up against an immediately post-prison inshape Tyson it would require a monumentous effort to pull out a victory. :yep

There wouldn't be many (if any) others.

[Senya13]

Tunney struggled with a natural 168lb pressure fighter several times. And he beat old-old Dempsey who out of a sudden desided to be a boxer, instead of a hunter in their fights. Tyson would wipe the floor with Tunney in the first two rounds and finish him quickly.

[Mendoza]

If so, who?

And if your answer is no, explain why many great heavyweights (Louis, Liston, Dempsey etc) are vulnerable to LHW challenges but Tyson was not?

1 - Ali
2 - Louis
3 - Liston
4 - Johnson
5 - Lewis
6 - Frazier
7 - Jeffries
8 - Hollyfield
9 - Tyson
0 - Holmes.

This is my top ten heavyweights.

Tyson was too dynamic with his hands and feet for most light heavies. A dynamic swarmer with more power almost always blows out a good boxer type. No light heavy could hope to stand toe to toe with a true heavyweight bomber. Many old time heavies that had issues with light heavies because they were slower with their feet and hands. Not Tyson. This is the reason why he would blow most of them out.

I suppose Tunney of Langford at 175 pounds could defeat Tyson. Each man had a good chin, good movement skills, and some sting. Langford was super strong for his size, and had the type of stuff that could make Tyson's questionable intangibles come into play. I do believe Langford hit at least as hard as Holyfield, who knocked Tyson out.

Tunney was a master boxer mover, and smart ring tactician who would not get caught on the ropes or in the corners. Tyson had some trouble with James Tillis, who was a quick boxer type. The fight was close to a draw.

If Langford Tunney could make it past round 5, Tyson begins to slow down. These are the two light heavies I would pick to have the best chance vs Tyson. I would expect Tyson to beat them though.

[Bigcat]

Archie Moore would have tested his boundaries and puched him a bit but still fallen short against a prime Tyson..

[McGrain]

Yes, but can that A+++++++++++ horse be rode by a C level rider?


Wouldn't an A+ horse be easier to ride?

:huh

[McGrain]

Archie Moore would have tested his boundaries and puched him a bit but still fallen short against a prime Tyson..


I think Moore has a very, very serious chance actually.

He'd be the only one I would think about putting in there with Mike, peronally.

[McGrain]

Who is going to weather Tyson's onslaught of punches?? They are not heavy enough of resist the power of the punches.. I can't see a LH dodging and evading Tyson all night.. very hard.


Well a peak Moore had an astonishing chin in addition to being very hard to hit. He also had supernatural powers of recovery.

But Tyson is a very special puncher so I would favour him.

[Senya13]

Prime Archie Moore was hit plenty even by Oakland Billy Smith, who was nowhere near as aggressive or as accurate puncher as Tyson. And Moore was passive, too passive in there. He'd be overwhelmed from the very beginning.

[McGrain]

Prime Archie Moore was hit plenty even by Oakland Billy Smith, who was nowhere near as aggressive or as accurate puncher as Tyson. And Moore was passive, too passive in there. He'd be overwhelmed from the very beginning.

You're right; i'll rephrase. Hard to hit clean. And whilst i'm not comparing Billy Smith to Tyson, let's not forget that he was a decent puncher.

Is the Smith-Moore fight on film?

[Senya13]

1946-10-23 Oakland Billy Smith vs Archie Moore (16min 39sec)

[janitor]

There's more if's there than i care to count mate.

Never is a verry strong word in boxing and not one to be used lightley.

There is no heavyweight in history who I wpould categoricaly say could not theoreticaly loose to a natural light heavyweight on a given day.

[godking]

A lighter man depends on his speed of hand and foot to evade the heavier man and land his blows.

There are very very few LHWS who can outspeed Tyson.

Tyson is the worst HW to fight for a LHW. Sinse there would be no significant speed advantage for the LHW

[janitor]

Tyson is the worst HW to fight for a LHW. Sinse there would be no significant speed advantage for the LHW

Having said that they might have a significant reach advantage which they did not usualy enjoy at heavyweight.

[Minotauro]

The only fighter I could think of was Langford he proved he could take on larger men admittedly none where a prime Tyson but he was a good boxer hit hard and had a very good chin and cardio. If he manages to take Tyson's best shots and stay up while fighting on the inside were Mike was never that strong he could win a decision especially over 15.

[godking]

Having said that they might have a significant reach advantage which they did not usualy enjoy at heavyweight.A reach advantage is only an advantage if you are faster of hand and fast enough to stay on the outside. Veyy few guys have that advantage against Tyson.

Fighting Tyson on the outside was never the best tactic to fight him because he expected you to do so and his footwork was designed to close the space fast against guys trying to fight him on the outside.

The way to beat a prime Tyson is to try to time himThrow punches and clinch him to disrupt his pace .

Fighting him on solely on the outside is a losing proposition because Tyson is fast enough to catch and had very good footwork.

[janitor]

A reach advantage is only an advantage if you are faster of hand and fast enough to stay on the outside. Veyy few guys have that advantage against Tyson.


Even without that ability it beats the hell out of not having a reach advantage over him. It gives you some capacity to score points without getting your head taken off.

[Irish Steel]

Roy Jones?

[janitor]

Bit of a wild card but what about Jimmy Slatterey. He might have the apropriate style.

[C. M. Clay II]

Tunney struggled with a natural 168lb pressure fighter several times. And he beat old-old Dempsey who out of a sudden desided to be a boxer, instead of a hunter in their fights. Tyson would wipe the floor with Tunney in the first two rounds and finish him quickly.

Spot on. Tunney could barely get past Greb in their fights. I doubt he could get by a prime "Iron" Mike Tyson.:good

[C. M. Clay II]

I think Tunney would have an excellent chance to beat Tyson, so would Conn...

Beating a washed up Dempsey and almost beating a dehydrated Louis doesn't equate to beating Tyson. Dempsey's footspeed was gone in the Tunney fights, and Louis came in weight-dranied for Conn, not to mention Joe's footspeed is not on Tyson's level.

Personally, I don't think Tyson could lose to any lightheavyweight, but if I had to pick one, I would pick Tunney, but I would still expect Tyson to smash him.:good

[janitor]

Spot on. Tunney could barely get past Greb in their fights. I doubt he could get by a prime "Iron" Mike Tyson.:good

Harry Greb and Mike Tyson are not verry similar. They both aply pressure but that is where the similarities end.

[C. M. Clay II]

Harry Greb and Mike Tyson are not verry similar. They both aply pressure but that is where the similarities end.

But pressure would be the key, wouldn't it?

[janitor]

But pressure would be the key, wouldn't it?

Against Tunney?

I think it is Tysons finishing ability more than anything else that would win this for him. The ability to capitalize on a single mistake as the faded Dempsey so nearly did.

[Mendoza]

Tunney struggled with a natural 168lb pressure fighter several times. And he beat old-old Dempsey who out of a sudden desided to be a boxer, instead of a hunter in their fights. Tyson would wipe the floor with Tunney in the first two rounds and finish him quickly.

That pressure fighter was one of the best pound for pound fighters in history, who also beat heavyweights...ranked heavyweights. Tunney beat Greb in the series. Greb won one fight “ officially “ by butting Tunney face. Jack Johnson said Greb was the fastest fighter he ever saw. Tunney was a pure boxer type without a big punch. Greb was a windmill with a pound for pound type of chin. The two men had some wars.

It should be noted that both Greb and Dempsey turned down a proposed last fight from Tunney. Greb said Tunney got too big. Dempsey said no thanks to Tunney vs Dempsey III. Two hall of fame guys said no thanks to another fight with Tunney. Are you aware of this?

Though Tunney gets little credit for it, he was a super tough fighter, capable of enduing pain, or winning matches with injuries. Tunney was only down once in 83 fights, so even if you think he fought mostly light heavies, his chin has to be viewed as good. I doubt Tunney freezes up vs Tyson like Spinks did. Tyson could lose heart and become undone. Tyson had major league swelling problems. Tunney jab marked guys up. In short, Tunney has a shot here.

If you watch the Tunney vs Dempsey fights, you'll note Tunney ran circles around Dempsey. Tunney would move and jab, then catch Dempsey with his right. Other times, he clinch and re-set. Dempsey wanted to Brawl, but could not catch Tunney, save for the long count round. That is the story of the fight.

Would I pick Tunney? NO! Does he have a real shot? I think so.

[punchy]

Young Ali was a LHW he would stand a very good chance against him and any other HW in history.

[Senya13]

That pressure fighter was one of the best pound for pound fighters in history, who also beat heavyweights...ranked heavyweights.
The pressure fighter Tunney is matched against was just as ferocious as Greb, but more polished, much bigger and stronger, with much harder punch in both hands, and beat a a lot of ranked heavyweights.

Tunney beat Greb in the series.
It's very debatable.

One has to look for styles matchup, and we see that Tunney didn't match up well against good pressure. He only managed to beat Greb convinsingly once out of 5 fights, when Greb started to slide down.

If you watch the Tunney vs Dempsey fights, you'll note Tunney ran circles around Dempsey. Tunney would move and jab, then catch Dempsey with his right. Other times, he clinch and re-set. Dempsey wanted to Brawl, but could not catch Tunney, save for the long count round. That is the story of the fight.
You aren't watching the fights too attentively, as well as you don't read contemporary sources about these fights. It is clear (and contemporary experts mentioned this in their analysis) that Dempsey changed his style for these bouts to a more usual style, making his left hook ineffective (due to his stance), and almost abandoning his rushes completely.

[Cojimar 1945]

Rahman and Ruiz were ranked in the top 10 when they fought Toney and Toney himself was ranked as high as 5th or so by Ring Magazine at heavyweight.

[Mendoza]

Senya13 The pressure fighter Tunney is matched against was just as ferocious as Greb, but more polished, much bigger and stronger, with much harder punch in both hands, and beat a a lot of ranked heavyweights.

Very true. But Greb was a sustained windmill. Tyson was a tornado that came and went. Those who were not afraid of Tyson and could weather his storm or avoid it beat him. Tyson has one late round TKO in his career ( 10th ) and after that his next latest TKO is round 7. I beleive Tyson's activity level and aggression dropped off significantly after about round 5.
While smaller heavies like Spinks and M Frazier " froze ", others did not. Tyson might have had honest draw vs James Tillis, who like Tunney was a good boxer. So you see, Tyson did not roll over guys who did not freeze up. Tunney would not freeze up. He was a marine.

It's very debatable.

Since we can't see the fights, yes it is debatable. However Tunney won three of five, and Greb won once according to Newspapers. I see you left out my comment that both Greb and Dempsey did not want any part of a peaking Tunney. They knew Tunney had passed them, so each man said no thanks to another fight. Tunney had trouble with Greb when he was less than 175 pound. As soon as he grew into his frame, the fight changed.


One has to look for styles match up, and we see that Tunney didn't match up well against good pressure. He only managed to beat Greb convinsingly once out of 5 fights, when Greb started to slide down.

Greb had far more energy than Tyson did. The fight Greb officially won is Tunney's lone loss. I beleive it would be a NC in modern rules due to Greb butting Tunney in the face and creating a broken nose and cuts in round 1.


You aren't watching the fights too attentively, as well as you don't read contemporary sources about these fights. It is clear (and contemporary experts mentioned this in their analysis) that Dempsey changed his style for these bouts to a more usual style, making his left hook ineffective (due to his stance), and almost abandoning his rushes completely.

I wasn't watching the fights too attentively? The #1 strategy for Dempsey was to catch Tunney on the ropes or brawl toe to toe if Tunney was follish enough to stand and trade. Outside of the long count round, ( a round where Tunney took Dempsey best combination on film and got up 100% fresh and showed brilliant evasive footwork ), please show me one other round where Dempsey was able to catch up to Tunney and unload his bombs without being tangled up in a clinch. Examples would be nice.



Dempsey badly wanted to land his hook. Tunney proved to be a frustrating target that would box and move. Tunney was a bit like Ali, except he was even more focused and did not take breaks on the ropes to catch his wind. Dempsey was in better shape for the second match. Even a past his best Dempsey moved better than most top heavyweights. If Tunney stood toe to toe, or tired, there is NO WAY Dempsey boxes! Dempsey grew tired of chasing Tunney. And Tunney hurt Dempsey though an attrition of blows. If the fight was 15 rounds, Tunney likely scores a TKO. At the end of the 2nd fight, Dempsey an honest man wanted to congragulate Tunney, but his eyes were slits, and a corner man had to help Dempsey find where Tunney was in the ring! Did you know this? Have you not see a stylistic shut down in boxing where a slugger can't win more than a round or two vs a fast boxer? See Holmes vs Shavers. Shavers looks like he's trying to box, but in truth he badly wanted to slug.....he just could not find that type of fight and ends up chasing Holmes for most of the rounds.

Again, I do pick Tyson here. My point is Tunney has a chance to upset. Other boxers like Douglas and Holyfield used their skils and jab to frusterate Tyson, then take him out late.

[Senya13]

Very true. But Greb was a sustained windmill. Tyson was a tornado that came and went. Those who were not afraid of Tyson and could weather his storm or avoid it beat him. Tyson has one late round TKO in his career ( 10th ) and after that his next latest TKO is round 7. I beleive Tyson's activity level and aggression dropped off significantly after about round 5.
1) We are talking about prime Tyson of late 1980s.
2) Prime Tyson didn't keep trying to knock the other guy out as the rounds went by. What you believe is not proven by facts, even if for the simple reason that only a couple of fighters lasted that long.

While smaller heavies like Spinks and M Frazier " froze ", others did not. Tyson might have had honest draw vs James Tillis, who like Tunney was a good boxer. So you see, Tyson did not roll over guys who did not freeze up. Tunney would not freeze up. He was a marine.
Who exactly scored the fight with Tillis as a draw? And Tillis was a genuine heavyweight, not a natural light heavyweight. There's a big difference between the two, and it's not just a number.
The thing is Tunney was hittable in several fights with Greb. He was hittable from the very first round, not only when he tired out towards later rounds. Tyson's punching power was very far ahead of Greb's. Tunney wasn't invulnerable even to Greb's light punches. Shot Jack Dempsey (who at that age certainly didn't hit as hard as prime Tyson) didn't need many chances to drop Tunney, and drop him hard. But that Dempsey didn't have the mobility of his younger version, nor was he using a stance which brought him success, the new stance rendered his left hook useless. Tyson would be getting close to Tunney all the time, tens of times during each round, unlike Dempsey, and same as Greb in several fights. Spinks had as good feet as Tunney, it didn't help him, you can't run away from that Tyson, you should be ready to work in close one way or another. And Tunney wasn't very good at that, he was more of an outside fighter.

Since we can't see the fights, yes it is debatable. However Tunney won three of five, and Greb won once according to Newspapers.
Greb argueably deserved to win 3 out of 5 depending on what sources you look at.

I see you left out my comment that both Greb and Dempsey did not want any part of a peaking Tunney. They knew Tunney had passed them, so each man said no thanks to another fight. Tunney had trouble with Greb when he was less than 175 pound. As soon as he grew into his frame, the fight changed.
Dempsey was shot even before the first fight with Tunney, after 2nd fight he figured it didn't make sense to make another attempt. It has nothing to do with Tunney growing bigger or anything, regardless of what Dempsey said to the public.
The last fight with Greb was different because Greb was clearly past his best at that point. Contemporary sources started to speak about Greb being on the downslide for some time prior to last fight with Tunney. If my memory doesn't fail me it was discussed by the time of the 1st fight with Flowers.

Greb had far more energy than Tyson did.
The possibility that fight last the distance is very low. Main analysis of this matchup should be concentrated on first several rounds, what's the possiblity that Tunney can survive them.

I wasn't watching the fights too attentively?
Yes. Compare Dempsey's stance and movement from earlier fights and how he stood and moved vs Tunney. He switched to more orthodox (for that time) stance, with his left hand by his chest (while it should have been held higher, of course, it didn't protect him from Tunney's jabs at all the way how low it was), and he was trying to feel Tunney out with jab a lot. When he wanted to throw a left hook from that stance, he needed to re-group, to put weight on front leg, pull his left hand back and turn his body counter-clockwise to put weight into his punch, this required only fractions of a second, of course, but it was more than enough time for Tunney to escape or on the contrary close the distance. This repeated over and over again. Some experts mentioned this change and how stupid it was weeks before the 1st fight, by watching Dempsey in his training camp. But he still went on with this new style, which didn't suit him at all. Prime Dempsey didn't use a stance like that, he held his feet parallel, in a frontal stance where he could step in with right foot and throw a left hook immediately, close the distance and fire up with both hands. With orthodox stance he couldn't do this anymore. Plus, with upper body leaned forward (head-first) and left hand held so low, he was a live punching bag for jabs. Tunney rarely missed with it.