Buster's "long count"?

[Russell]

Was it complete King bullshit or did Buster Douglas get a few extra seconds when Tyson uppercutted him down?

[Woller]

The referee picked up the count wrongly from the timekeeper, so Buster got a few extra seconds. Buster correctly rose at "Nine" from the referee (as Tunney did many years ago). Tyson got a long count too in the same fight, so no big deal here.

Woller

[TBooze]

I think he got extra time. Don King was furious and tried to get the result reversed in favor of Tyson.

And succeeded in getting Senor Suliman to strip Douglas for a period of time.

[fists of fury]

I think Buster would've got up whenever the 9 was said, he was just resting as much as he could and its not his fault.

QFE.

[Raggamuffin]

Buster was down for excactly 14 seconds

[Swedish81]

Originally Posted by jdp000109
I think Buster would've got up whenever the 9 was said, he was just resting as much as he could and its not his fault.


Agreed! And the Tyson camps protests was just pathetic.

[achillesthegreat]

People talk about long counts when they feel like it. Nearly every count is a long count. Its the referees count, not a real time count. The whole idea is so that the fighter can monitor the ref and not have to guess when his ten seconds are up.

[janitor]

It is completely irrelevant.

The count is not 10 seconds it is the period that it takes the reff to count to 10. Dosn't matter whether it takes him 9 seconds or 11 seconds. That is the period that the fighter is alowed to get up.

[TBooze]

It is completely irrelevant.

The count is not 10 seconds it is the period that it takes the reff to count to 10. Dosn't matter whether it takes him 9 seconds or 11 seconds. That is the period that the fighter is alowed to get up.

Damn that common sense, spoiling all their fun;)

[apollack]

A referee is supposed to count to 10 in 10 seconds. We'll never know whether Buster would have gotten up in time if Meyran had counted properly. I have my doubts. That count was real slow in my opinion, and Octavio should have known it. Nevertheless, many refs count too slow, and bottom line is the fighter is only required to rise before the ref counts to 10, which Buster barely did. The fighter only has to go by the referee and has no obligation to know what a true 10 second count is.

Which is why I think Jersey Joe Walcott screwed up worse by not ever giving Liston a count in Ali II. Liston never heard ten, so I don't know how the hell Walcott could have stopped that fight. Also, Ali never went to the neutral corner, so the count should have been totally suspended anyway. Just goes to show that just because you can fight doesn't mean you have the first clue about refereeing.

[Dempsey1238]

A referee is supposed to count to 10 in 10 seconds. We'll never know whether Buster would have gotten up in time if Meyran had counted properly. I have my doubts. That count was real slow in my opinion, and Octavio should have known it. Nevertheless, many refs count too slow, and bottom line is the fighter is only required to rise before the ref counts to 10, which Buster barely did. The fighter only has to go by the referee and has no obligation to know what a true 10 second count is.

Which is why I think Jersey Joe Walcott screwed up worse by not ever giving Liston a count in Ali II. Liston never heard ten, so I don't know how the hell Walcott could have stopped that fight. Also, Ali never went to the neutral corner, so the count should have been totally suspended anyway. Just goes to show that just because you can fight doesn't mean you have the first clue about refereeing.

Nat stop the fight, not Jersey Joe . :-(

[red cobra]

Buster knew what was going on as soon as he hit the deck, evidenced by his pounding the canvas in anger with himself. The knockdown was the only flaw in what was a picture perfect performance from him that night. It wouldnt have mattered what version of Mike Tyson showed up that night, nothing could have stopped Buster. The perfect fighter that night, as the physical, mental and spiritual all came together as one.

[Bigcat]

Buster was fully aware of the count.. he would have arose after 5 seconds if the referee had gotten to nine quickly..

He just did what any pro would, he followed the referrees actions, The quarrell is between Meyran and the timekeeper.. It was crossed wiresn i think.. Mike was almost a doomed fighter that night anyhow.. he was too tired and ill prepared.

[DamonD]

I think Buster would've gotten up you can tell by the way he banged his glove on the canvas, he was just listening to the referee and waiting for him to say 9 so he could get up...
Yeah, Buster thumped the mat in frustration at about 2 or 3. He got knocked down, but really did not seem dazed from it...more annoyed at himself for a lack of concentration.

I will say that Douglas got laced with a few more heavy uppercuts on the way in during round 9...but he was able to keep on his feet.

[Addie]

I tried to convince myself that both Tyson and Buster were counted the same, but I feel that Berbick was given a lot of help to stay in that ring. He only just got up on a slow 9 count, most referee's would have waved their hands in the air and hugged Berbick.

[janitor]

A referee is supposed to count to 10 in 10 seconds.

He is surposed to try to count to 10 in 10 seaconds but at the end of the day a fighter is entitled to asume that 10 is when the referee says 10.

If Don Kings atempt to overturn the outcome of Tyson Douglas had been alowed then from then onwards a fighter would have had to carry a stopwatch to ensure that the count was acurate.

[Dempsey1238]

Lets not forget that Doulgas a pound going down slam his fist on the ground. He look well aware of what was going on around him, and had Eye to eye contact with the ref at the ref's count of 2(After hitting the ground).

If Douglas relly needed too, he could have beating a 5 count. or even a 3 count.

[He Hate Me]

Was it complete King bullshit or did Buster Douglas get a few extra seconds when Tyson uppercutted him down?

Thanks for bringing that point back up, for some reason or another it wasn't covered as extensive as it should have.

[ironchamp]

Buster knew what was going on as soon as he hit the deck, evidenced by his pounding the canvas in anger with himself. The knockdown was the only flaw in what was a picture perfect performance from him that night. It wouldnt have mattered what version of Mike Tyson showed up that night, nothing could have stopped Buster. The perfect fighter that night, as the physical, mental and spiritual all came together as one.

Tyson being the more proven fighter leads me to believe that Buster's performance was amplified by Tyson's dismal effort.

[mouse]

It wouldnt have mattered what version of Mike Tyson showed up that night, nothing could have stopped Buster.
No.

I re-watched this fight a few weeks ago. This is one of boxing's myths that do not reflect the reality of the event (ala an Ali who was battered by Foreman but came back to KO him.) Buster fought an awesome fight that night in Tokyo - the best of his career and better than anyone else ever fought Tyson.

But Buster Douglas floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee is a myth brought on by the rose-tinted view of nostalgia and reminiscence. Yes, for limited stretches of time, Douglas did get on his bicycle, moved with fluidity and worked off a great jab.

But the true story of that fight was a Buster Douglas who stood fearlessly toe-to-toe against Tyson, roughed him up, shoved him, wrestled him, hit him on the break and showed him no respect . That is what got Tyson.

At his peak in '88, there is no way any fighter in history (let alone Douglas) would have been able to get away with those tactics. At his best, not only would the KD in round 8 occured earlier, Tyson would have finished him off.

[Vantage_West]

I think Buster would've got up whenever the 9 was said, he was just resting as much as he could and its not his fault.couldnt agree more

[Vantage_West]

No.

I re-watched this fight a few weeks ago. This is one of boxing's myths that do not reflect the reality of the event (ala an Ali who was battered by Foreman but came back to KO him.) Buster fought an awesome fight that night in Tokyo - the best of his career and better than anyone else ever fought Tyson.

But Buster Douglas floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee is a myth brought on by the rose-tinted view of nostalgia and reminiscence. Yes, for limited stretches of time, Douglas did get on his bicycle, moved with fluidity and worked off a great jab.

But the true story of that fight was a Buster Douglas who stood fearlessly toe-to-toe against Tyson, roughed him up, shoved him, wrestled him, hit him on the break and showed him no respect . That is what got Tyson.

At his peak in '88, there is no way any fighter in history (let alone Douglas) would have been able to get away with those tactics. At his best, not only would the KD in round 8 occured earlier, Tyson would have finished him off.:huh i dont know where your going with this

doesnt matter if he was floating like a but.....yada yada....yea he went flat footed to throw his powerful jab...does that make him more beatable or what?

[punchy]

The count was long as evidenced by the time keepers hands you can se in the background but Meyran didn't do any thing wrong and Buster got up when he had to becauase he was in control of his senses unlike Tyson when he was knocked down. Out of curiosity has anyone seen a ref really stuff a count and what happened.

[Duodenum]

Nat stop the fight, not Jersey Joe . :-(I wonder if Fleischer tried that with Dave Barry at Soldier Field. (Imagine the uproar if Nat caused Dempsey to regain his title! A slightly easier trick to pull with only a couple thousand in attendence than over 100,000.:think)

[josak]

:huh i dont know where your going with this

doesnt matter if he was floating like a but.....yada yada....yea he went flat footed to throw his powerful jab...does that make him more beatable or what?
He's basically saying that the Tyson Douglas fought wasn't the same as, say, the one who fought Spinks, Berbick, etc. Tyson was on the downhill slope by the time he fought Douglas and much of skills had eroded. I think Buster would have made a great showing regardless but Tyson would have beat him had it occured in 87/88.