Floyd Patterson: Bad Back or Bullcrap?

[MRBILL]

Folks,

I just finished reviewing "Ali-Patterson 1" from '65 a little earlier today. Early on it was obvious to me that Ali was too big and skilled for the 30 year old Floyd Patterson.. By the middle rds., Patterson complained to his corner about his back bothering him... In the later rds his cornerman even lifted him up to try and stretch out the cramp / pain between rds......

Q: Was Floyd's back really injured / hurt, or was Floyd trying to devise an excuse in a losing battle with Muhammad Ali??? Floyd Patterson looked ripped and in great shape for Ali, but he was being punished and battered by Ali throughout......... Any thoughts??
:huh:shock::|:nono:bbb

MR.BILL

[Rico Spadafora]

Folks,

I just finished reviewing "Ali-Patterson 1" from '65 a little earlier today. Early on it was obvious to me that Ali was too big and skilled for the 30 year old Floyd Patterson.. By the middle rds., Patterson complained to his corner about his back bothering him... In the later rds his cornerman even lifted him up to try and stretch out the cramp / pain between rds......

Q: Was Floyd's back really injured / hurt, or was Floyd trying to devise an excuse in a losing battle with Muhammad Ali??? Floyd Patterson looked ripped and in great shape for Ali, but he was being punished and battered by Ali throughout......... Any thoughts??
:huh:shock::|:nono:bbb

MR.BILL

that style Cus taught was not for longevity. I believe him. The training Patterson and Tyson went through was brutal. Remember the original plan was for Mike to fight 10 years and retire and beat Marciano's record because that style of fighting was brutal on the body.

[BlueApollo]

Spinal.

[BUDW]

Nothing about Floyd Patterson was bullcrap he was class all the way.

[Stoic]

Folks,

I just finished reviewing "Ali-Patterson 1" from '65 a little earlier today. Early on it was obvious to me that Ali was too big and skilled for the 30 year old Floyd Patterson.. By the middle rds., Patterson complained to his corner about his back bothering him... In the later rds his cornerman even lifted him up to try and stretch out the cramp / pain between rds......

Q: Was Floyd's back really injured / hurt, or was Floyd trying to devise an excuse in a losing battle with Muhammad Ali??? Floyd Patterson looked ripped and in great shape for Ali, but he was being punished and battered by Ali throughout......... Any thoughts??
:huh:shock::|:nono:bbb

MR.BILL
It had to be a bad back-Floyd never used excuses. It probably contributed largely to his loss against the then big mouth Ali/Clay.
I say "then" because I think Ali toned down his antics late 70's.
I blame the media for airing him too much and esp.--RIP-- Howard Cosell.

[MRBILL]

Guys,

I hear that rap... I do..... BUT! Fact was, F.P. was eatin' lotsa' leather by Ali in the fight of '65..... Was it even remotely possible that Floyd was afraid that Clay / Ali was gonna park him like a Cadillac, so Floyd tried to save face by claiming a bad back??? F.P. never had that problem again...... Fishy...... But I do agree that Floyd Patterson was a class act.....

MR.BILL

[iceman71]

classic section dude

[TheGreatA]

I think he had real problems with his back. If not then he put on a great act.

Floyd Patterson heavily criticized Liston's decision to retire with an injured shoulder, he called it an excuse for Liston to get out of the fight. True to his word he fought on with an injured back even though he was being battered against Ali.

He went onto say after the fight that Ali would have beaten him that night even if he had not injured his back.

I don't see any point in putting on an act like that if he was not going to use it as an excuse for losing.

[MRBILL]

classic section dude

Deep down, I know that...... But I went with the general forum section to get more hits...... However, you are correct.......:D

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

I think he had real problems with his back. If not then he put on a great act.

Floyd Patterson heavily criticized Liston's decision to retire with an injured shoulder, he called it an excuse for Liston to get out of the fight. True to his word he fought on with an injured back even though he was being battered against Ali.

He went onto say after the fight that Ali would have beaten him that night even if he had not injured his back.

I don't see any point in putting on an act like that if he was not going to use it as an excuse for losing.

Good feedback, bro....... Liston is another "Iffy" scenario...... Was the shoulder incident true or false? It may have been a ploy as well.?.?.?:huh

MR.BILL:thumbsup

[Dempsey1238]

Shoulder or not, most fighters fought on worse than Liston.

I belive Patterson's story. Now I not saying Patterson coming in with a good back would change the out come, but Patterson's peak a boo style was never good for the back. Ask Marciano lol.

[turpinr]

has as been said on here,all of the shorter heavies like marciano,frazier and floyd,suffered from bad backs.
it wouldn't have helped that ali would've been leaning on him whist floyd was trying to get out of his crouch to punch.quit,no way

[red cobra]

Nothing about Floyd Patterson was bullcrap he was class all the way.Agreed!!

[klompton]

It wasnt an excuse, he had a bad back. Not saying he was going to win with a good back but the guy tried for years for a rematch and when he finally got one he was WAY more competetive and that was when he was absolutely ancient.

[GPater11093]

the d'mato style is going to give you a bad back so against Ali Floyd had a bad back

but a real stiff jab can hurt your back aswell and gues what Ali was doing in that fight

so its a mixture of reasons

[MRBILL]

For the most part, I found "Ali-Patterson" pretty boring.......... Ali was in complete control from start to finish.... Patterson was game throughout, but largely ineffective.... Them 12 rds are a hard watch.... Cheers....

MR.BILL

[DocDevil]

Patterson was a fine man and an excellent fighter,but we are also talking about the man who had a disguise ready to sneak outa town for his loss after the first Liston fight.Who is to say,Floyd didn't realize he didn't have a chance to win by the middle of the Ali fight,and just pulled an injury,to take some glory out of Ali's last three wins.Two clouded victories over Liston and now Patterson.Liston's rep was bad,and lot of people thought he threw those fights.Floyd was beloved,maybe he wasn't as hurtin as he let on,no one would qustion Floyd's integrity.

[MRBILL]

Patterson was a fine man and an excellent fighter,but we are also talking about the man who had a disguise ready to sneak outa town for his loss after the first Liston fight.Who is to say,Floyd didn't realize he didn't have a chance to win by the middle of the Ali fight,and just pulled an injury,to take some glory out of Ali's last three wins.Two clouded victories over Liston and now Patterson.Liston's rep was bad,and lot of people thought he threw those fights.Floyd was beloved,maybe he wasn't as hurtin as he let on,no one would qustion Floyd's integrity.

I believe "Clay-Liston 1" down in Florida to be legit...... Clay battered a semi-conditioned Liston to pieces.... The rematch of '65 in Maine sucked long pool stick and was as crooked as the Mississippi river.... BUT! Clay / Ali and company were on the level.....
:huh
As for Floyd Patterson.... That bit about keeping a beard and stache with shades in his dressing room upon bailing the scene after getting iced by Liston in 1962 bothers me....... Their is / was NO SHAME in getting parked by Liston early on... The pre '64 Liston was a ruthless mother in the ring.....
:deal

MR.BILL:bbb

[HomicideHenry]

Folks,

I just finished reviewing "Ali-Patterson 1" from '65 a little earlier today. Early on it was obvious to me that Ali was too big and skilled for the 30 year old Floyd Patterson.. By the middle rds., Patterson complained to his corner about his back bothering him... In the later rds his cornerman even lifted him up to try and stretch out the cramp / pain between rds......

Q: Was Floyd's back really injured / hurt, or was Floyd trying to devise an excuse in a losing battle with Muhammad Ali??? Floyd Patterson looked ripped and in great shape for Ali, but he was being punished and battered by Ali throughout......... Any thoughts??
:huh:shock::|:nono:bbb

MR.BILL

IMO, Ali's best wins during his first title reign were Patterson and Chuvalo. Patterson, imo, had the fastest hands of any HW, including Ali, whose jab may have been the fastest, but not in combination. As far as the back thing, it was an excuse. Patterson was still a contender by the time he faced Ali a second time, and was robbed out of being a three time HW champion.

Same with Marciano. The back thing was simply an excuse. But in Marciano's case, it was more financial/personal reasons for why he left the ring, than Patterson who was finding anything to make up for his loss to Ali.

[Dempsey1238]

Marciano did have back problems later in his rein though.
Most of the Rock's freinds said Rocky could not bend down to tie his shoes. So I think there has to be some fact to that. I would not write it off.

[MRBILL]

I wish ESPN would show some of those Patterson fights with "Ellis & Quarry." I have Patterson's fight with Ellis on a crude tape.... Patterson still boxed well, but either settled for a draw or dropped a narrow decision to Ellis..... I'd have to check that... Its been yrs........ Same with his fights with Quarry..... Word has it that Patterson was robbed in one fight with Quarry, but clearly lost the other fight..... I'd like to see clear tapes of these fights.......

MR.BILL

[TheGreatA]

I wish ESPN would show some of those Patterson fights with "Ellis & Quarry." I have Patterson's fight with Ellis on a crude tape.... Patterson still boxed well, but either settled for a draw or dropped a narrow decision to Ellis..... I'd have to check that... Its been yrs........ Same with his fights with Quarry..... Word has it that Patterson was robbed in one fight with Quarry, but clearly lost the other fight..... I'd like to see clear tapes of these fights.......

MR.BILL

It's youtube but you won't likely find these fights in better quality than this.

Patterson vs Ellis

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Patterson vs Quarry I

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Patterson vs Quarry II

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I'd be interested in hearing how other people scored these fights. I think a case could be made that Patterson won all of them but that's just me.

[MRBILL]

It's youtube but you won't likely find these fights in better quality than this.

Patterson vs Ellis

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Patterson vs Quarry I

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Patterson vs Quarry II

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I'd be interested in hearing how other people scored these fights. I think a case could be made that Patterson won all of them but that's just me.

Youtube has its use, but I am not big on The Tube........... It would be nice if ESPN played more of this old school material....

I noticed ESPN Classics has been airing lotsa' modern crap that's only a few years old....... I normally just pass up all that jazz........

MR.BILL

[klompton]

Patterson kicked Ellis' ass. I am always amazed when supposedly knowledgeable fans say Patterson lost that fight.

[DocDevil]

Haven't seen the Ellis-Patterson fight in decades,seemed like the fight was in Sweden,the ref had the only vote.He picked Ellis,and he needed an escort to get out safely.

[MRBILL]

Haven't seen the Ellis-Patterson fight in decades,seemed like the fight was in Sweden,the ref had the only vote.He picked Ellis,and he needed an escort to get out safely.

The general feeling is that Patterson got dicked a couple of times by the judges / scoring in the late 1960s against "Ellis and Quarry.":shock:

[DocDevil]

Howard Cosell touched on the Quarry fight,and mentioned the "perculiar" California scoring system,how he thought Floyd won.

[djanders]

Folks,

I just finished reviewing "Ali-Patterson 1" from '65 a little earlier today. Early on it was obvious to me that Ali was too big and skilled for the 30 year old Floyd Patterson.. By the middle rds., Patterson complained to his corner about his back bothering him... In the later rds his cornerman even lifted him up to try and stretch out the cramp / pain between rds......

Q: Was Floyd's back really injured / hurt, or was Floyd trying to devise an excuse in a losing battle with Muhammad Ali??? Floyd Patterson looked ripped and in great shape for Ali, but he was being punished and battered by Ali throughout......... Any thoughts??
:huh:shock::|:nono:bbb

MR.BILL

I vote: "Floyd's back really injured / hurt".

[groove]

Even if his back wasn't injured Ali was still gonna demolish him that nite. His back was alright at the start - Ali caused the back injury if there was one by hitting Patterson repeatedly. Watch the first few rounds and you know there was only ever going to be one winner. I think i counted Ali hitting Patterson with over 120 punches in one round alone.

[klompton]

bullshit

[MRBILL]

bullshit

I do have mixed emotions about the "Back" scandal / excuse......:huh

SR.BILL:deal

[Farmboxer]

Patterson had some good skills. He was a small heavyweight though, but he had skills.