Michael Moorer

[smiff]

Did he under-achieve in a big way ?
What were his main failings and attributes ?

[Muchmoore]

He didn't really underachieve, maybe a bit of an overachiever in that he has a win over Holyfield.

His main problem was his chin, obviously. His ability to take a punch was a bit below average, and he wasn't the strongest guy either. He did, however, have a solid set of skills and fought out of an awkward stance. His power and handspeed were both solid.

[Ischbaad]

I think that he had an excellent career personally. He's not an ATG, but he accomplished a lot. He just seemed to lack mental strength at times, which really let him down.

[smiff]

Good skills and technique but lacked the chin and will to win that sees lesser boxers achieve alot more. Loads of fighters like that aren't there.

[lefthook31]

He had a good career, he just didnt fight smart a lot of times. He had the technical skills to box and probably achieve a lot more at heavyweight than he did, but his willingness to slug it out with bigger punchers was his downfall. He should have beaten Foreman, had a much easier time with Botha and Cooper, and never have taken the Tua fight. I remember thinking, he'll never make it out of the first round with Tua, but he didnt make it to the first minute.
Ive had the chance to be in camp and around Moorer. He is a strange guy. Dont ever call him Mike, its Michael. He abused sparring partners and talked sh*t the entire time he sparred. Funny story, My buddy invited him to a party with his girlfriend, and he called him Mike introducing him to a friend, and Moorer just about broke his arm grabbing him and telling him not to call him Mike. Everyone just looked at him like he was crazy. Strange dude. True story...

[Addie]

He had a good career, he just didnt fight smart a lot of times. He had the technical skills to box and probably achieve a lot more at heavyweight than he did, but his willingness to slug it out with bigger punchers was his downfall. He should have beaten Foreman, had a much easier time with Botha and Cooper, and never have taken the Tua fight. I remember thinking, he'll never make it out of the first round with Tua, but he didnt make it to the first minute.
Ive had the chance to be in camp and around Moorer. He is a strange guy. Dont ever call him Mike, its Michael. He abused sparring partners and talked sh*t the entire time he sparred. Funny story, My buddy invited him to a party with his girlfriend, and he called him Mike introducing him to a friend, and Moorer just about broke his arm grabbing him and telling him not to call him Mike. Everyone just looked at him like he was crazy. Strange dude. True story...

Michael Moorer could have probably established himself as an ATG had he stayed at Light Heavyweight his entire career. He was one of the hardest hitters that weight has ever seen, and I think he had the ability to go with it. At Heavyweight, he couldn't take the big guys best shots, but you'd have to think his punch reisstance would have been significantly better had he stayed at Light Heavy.

At the end of the day, the success he had as a Heavyweight is indicative of how great of a Light Heavyweight he could have turned out to be.

[natonic]

Overachiever in my opinion. He had his share of scrapes in the Pittsburgh area. Teddy Atlas (of all people) portrayed him as a head case. He was gifted physically but was severely lacking from a mental/emotional standpoint. I'd say the odds were higher that he would've gotten himself in prison than accomplished what he did.

[MRBILL]

Moorer failed in the chin and conditioning dept. big time....... M.M. was lean and mean early on at 175, but all too often sluggish and soft at heavyweight..... The BEST Ol' Moorer ever looked at heavyweight was his 214 pounds he weighed for Holy in 1994.... Moorer never made 214 ever again.....

MR.BILL

P.S.

Moorer always had power, but I was not impressed with Moorer's 2004 stoppage over Vasily Jirov at 247 pounds.... What killed me the most was, Michael Moorer actually trained hard for Jirov..... 247 pounds? Jesus Christ....

[ChrisPontius]

He had a good career, he just didnt fight smart a lot of times. He had the technical skills to box and probably achieve a lot more at heavyweight than he did, but his willingness to slug it out with bigger punchers was his downfall. He should have beaten Foreman, had a much easier time with Botha and Cooper, and never have taken the Tua fight. I remember thinking, he'll never make it out of the first round with Tua, but he didnt make it to the first minute.
Ive had the chance to be in camp and around Moorer. He is a strange guy. Dont ever call him Mike, its Michael. He abused sparring partners and talked sh*t the entire time he sparred. Funny story, My buddy invited him to a party with his girlfriend, and he called him Mike introducing him to a friend, and Moorer just about broke his arm grabbing him and telling him not to call him Mike. Everyone just looked at him like he was crazy. Strange dude. True story...

What a dickhead.

I think he's a bit of an overachiever in that he fought Holyfield at exactly the right time. Only a coked up Cooney after 3 years of inactivity got knocked out worse by Foreman during his entire 10 year lasting comeback, that says something. Even Tommy Morrison did better and he supposedly can't box for shit nor handle pressure.

[DamonD]

I think he was someone that loved to brawl but forced himself to box. You could see that indecision there sometimes, most to his detriment against Foreman.

[MRBILL]

I think he was someone that loved to brawl but forced himself to box. You could see that indecision there sometimes, most to his detriment against Foreman.

Moorer under-estimated Foreman's resistance and willpower..... Moorer believed he could KO Foreman by getting Foreman drunk with a volley of sharp punches in the early going.... Moorer wanted to win by KO...... However, yes, Moorer made a tactical error in judgement by pretty much standing in front of George Foreman.... Moorer did use some tiny stutter-step movements in the bout, but by rd 10, Moorer was flat-footed..... The 10th round was all Foreman's.... Moorer took some wicked shots before that final right hand smacked into his china chin........ A great win for Foreman..... I popped a full woody when Moorer hit the floor...........:yep:tong:D:lol::good

MR.BILL:bbb

[rusty nails]

one of my favourite fighters..
when he opened up on someone he was very exciting and soooooo sharp..
i remember he was ranked best heavyweight puncher in the world at one point.
He had alot of self belief issues but people often forget he was flogging foreman when he went down. its a real shame he didnt go as well as he could have

[Minotauro]

Michael Moorer could have probably established himself as an ATG had he stayed at Light Heavyweight his entire career. He was one of the hardest hitters that weight has ever seen, and I think he had the ability to go with it. At Heavyweight, he couldn't take the big guys best shots, but you'd have to think his punch reisstance would have been significantly better had he stayed at Light Heavy.

At the end of the day, the success he had as a Heavyweight is indicative of how great of a Light Heavyweight he could have turned out to be.

I don't think he could have stayed at light heavy his entire career he used to kill himself just to make weight I remember Manny had him on really low amount of calories a day just to make weight. His future always lied amongst the heavier weights. And while his heavyweight career was good it’s difficult to establish how good of a light heavy he could have been his competition at the weight was terrible. If he had fought a good fighter there it would answer a lot personally I think Virgil Hill might have beaten him since Moorer seemed very raw at the weight.

[Rico Spadafora]

Moorer failed in the chin and conditioning dept. big time....... M.M. was lean and mean early on at 175, but all too often sluggish and soft at heavyweight..... The BEST Ol' Moorer ever looked at heavyweight was his 214 pounds he weighed for Holy in 1994.... Moorer never made 214 ever again.....

MR.BILL

P.S.

Moorer always had power, but I was not impressed with Moorer's 2004 stoppage over Vasily Jirov at 247 pounds.... What killed me the most was, Michael Moorer actually trained hard for Jirov..... 247 pounds? Jesus Christ....


Bill before the stoppage in that fight Jirov had won just about every round then boom Moorer nailed him and Jirov ended up getting stopped.

I thought Jirov was on his way to winning an easy UD then one punch changed the whole fight.

[mr. magoo]

I don't think he could have stayed at light heavy his entire career he used to kill himself just to make weight I remember Manny had him on really low amount of calories a day just to make weight. His future always lied amongst the heavier weights. And while his heavyweight career was good it’s difficult to establish how good of a light heavy he could have been his competition at the weight was terrible. If he had fought a good fighter there it would answer a lot personally I think Virgil Hill might have beaten him since Moorer seemed very raw at the weight.

Agreed,

Leslie Steward is in all likelihood the best fighter he met at LH, and Steward had him out boxed for nearly 8 rounds before Moorer's one punch power saved him. Hill would have been a nightmare.

[MrMarvel]

His chin wasn't that bad. He was iced by megapunchers Foreman and Tua, but they destroyed a lot of fighters with decent chins.

Moorer was a very good heavyweight who would have thrived in many eras of the division.

[ChrisPontius]

His chin wasn't that bad. He was iced by megapunchers Foreman and Tua, but they destroyed a lot of fighters with decent chins.


Comebacking Foreman did not destroy a lot of fighters with good chins at all. In fact, Moorer is the only good fighter that he stopped his comeback, despite fighting guys like Grimsley, Morrison, Stewart, etc. Add that he was nearly stopped by Cooper, down five times and stopped Holyfield and out in 30 seconds from 2 Tua punches, and you have one of the weakest jaws of heavyweight champions. He did have to compete in an era of big punching heavyweights though.

[lefthook31]

His chin wasn't that bad. He was iced by megapunchers Foreman and Tua, but they destroyed a lot of fighters with decent chins.

Moorer was a very good heavyweight who would have thrived in many eras of the division.
He was knocked down two times by Cooper, he was hurt by Botha, he was destroyed by Holyfield in the rematch knocked down in the first fight, knocked out by Tua in 30 seconds, and was knocked cold by one slow motion right hand from Foreman. I would say his chin wasnt that great.

[rusty nails]

He was knocked down two times by Cooper, he was hurt by Botha, he was destroyed by Holyfield in the rematch knocked down in the first fight, knocked out by Tua in 30 seconds, and was knocked cold by one slow motion right hand from Foreman. I would say his chin wasnt that great.

i think your underestimating the power those guys carried. particularly cooper and tua..

[janitor]

How many other former light heavyweights (excluding fights before they were world class)have actualy established themselves as the lineal heavyweight champion?

Bob Fitzimmons

Tommy Burns (should have been LHW champion)

Gene Tunney

Jimmy Braddock

Ezzard Charles

Michael Spinks

Perhaps we should make more of Moorers acomplishment in winning the title.

[MRBILL]

Bill before the stoppage in that fight Jirov had won just about every round then boom Moorer nailed him and Jirov ended up getting stopped.

I thought Jirov was on his way to winning an easy UD then one punch changed the whole fight.

Sure as hell did........... Moorer trained for Jirov, but age and excess baggage slowed him down...... Moorer was lucky to hit paydirt against Jirov in '04......:D

MR.BILL

[lefthook31]

How many other former light heavyweights (excluding fights before they were world class)have actualy established themselves as the lineal heavyweight champion?

Bob Fitzimmons

Tommy Burns (should have been LHW champion)

Gene Tunney

Jimmy Braddock

Ezzard Charles

Michael Spinks

Perhaps we should make more of Moorers acomplishment in winning the title.

Well it has to be put in to proper perspetive. Tyson is the one who actually unified the three titles in three separate title fights based on a tournament which involved all the best available fighters fighting each other for a shot at the title. Then he defended it six times. Douglas took it from Tyson. Holy took it from Douglas and defended three times. Bowe took it from Holy defended twice. Holy took it back from Bowe, and Moorer won it in a fight many peopl felt he lost. He then lost the title in his first defense.
I would say Moorer bottoms out this list. Impressive that he won the title yes. Did he do it in any spectacular fashion or have longevity as a champion? No, he lost the title in a voluntary defense against a guy he was supposed to easily beat for a nice payday.

[janitor]

Well it has to be put in to proper perspetive. Tyson is the one who actually unified the three titles in three separate title fights based on a tournament which involved all the best available fighters fighting each other for a shot at the title. Then he defended it six times. Douglas took it from Tyson. Holy took it from Douglas and defended three times. Bowe took it from Holy defended twice. Holy took it back from Bowe, and Moorer won it in a fight many peopl felt he lost. He then lost the title in his first defense.
I would say Moorer bottoms out this list. Impressive that he won the title yes. Did he do it in any spectacular fashion or have longevity as a champion? No, he lost the title in a voluntary defense against a guy he was supposed to easily beat for a nice payday.

Your criticisms are noted but it is still an achievment that not many fighters have matched.

If Moorer bottoms out this list then it is a prety good list to bottom out.

[Bigcat]

Problems.. Michael liked a brawl.. he would take on a football team if he felt the need.. He was tough, and strong.. He was one hell of a moody individual, and i know from first hand how bad he could get , especially with press members.. After he beat Evander he went to his room at caesars and some press members said something about his desire after getting dropped in the fight and not looking as urgent as he might have, he hit the roof and when he came back down in the elevator he was cussing at everyone moving.. Mike today is different, he is a lovely guy and has all the time in the world for everyone fans , kids , anyone at all.. He had a great fast jab and at light heavy could have remained champ for years......

[MrMarvel]

Comebacking Foreman did not destroy a lot of fighters with good chins at all. In fact, Moorer is the only good fighter that he stopped his comeback, despite fighting guys like Grimsley, Morrison, Stewart, etc. Add that he was nearly stopped by Cooper, down five times and stopped Holyfield and out in 30 seconds from 2 Tua punches, and you have one of the weakest jaws of heavyweight champions. He did have to compete in an era of big punching heavyweights though.

So, in almost 60 fights, Moorer was knocked out twice by two of the hardest punches ever in the division's history, survived against another monster puncher (this "nearly stopped" is in support of your argument?!), and then was stopped by a boxer who also stopped Tyson, Qwai, Douglas, and other top fighters, and he has one of the weakest jaws of heavyweight champions? You have to be kidding us.

And I'm guessing the man who was knocked out six times that SuzieQ goes ga-ga over didn't have a weak chin. Right?

[My2Sense]

He didn't really underachieve, maybe a bit of an overachiever in that he has a win over Holyfield.


Agreed there. In fact, I've always thought the decision over Holy was a gift (Holy should've got at least a draw IMO), and then he was slaughtered in a rematch with a much older and more faded Holy.

As a heavyweight, he was a very quick and sharp puncher, and a decent technician, but the extra weight appeared to only slow him down, without gaining anything in the way of power or durability, and he was inconsistent with his intensity and conditioning. IMO he was one of the most mediocre lineal heavyweight champs.

As a light-heavyweight, he was generally quicker and more aggressive, but even there, he still sometimes showed a tendency to be slightly sluggish or tentative. Given how weak his overall competition was, it's hard to fully gauge how good he was or wasn't.

[Russell]

Moorer was coming off of a major surgery going into the second Holyfield fight, which made it almost impossible to train, resulting in coming in heavy.

And yet everyone gives Holyfield a free pass for the first Moorer fight...

[Bigcat]

I was at a lot of training sessions with Michael for the second Holyfield fight and was quite shocked as to how overweight he looked, he wasn't cut at all and his body was fat. The surgery was hard on him but he never looked urgent to show any sparks in the gym, He put in great work but didn't set the gym alight for a man going into a world heavyweight title bout.. I watched him hit mitts with Freddie and his co ordination was amazing, but his zip was not there, i don't know if Michael loved the game any more.. He was incredibly moody when the press asked him any questions.. For that 1st Holyfield fight he was edgy and almost looked superhuman as he prepared, he walked around the casino in a dark pair of oakleys and looked untouchable, he was hard as Ebony..........

[lefthook31]

So, in almost 60 fights, Moorer was knocked out twice by two of the hardest punches ever in the division's history, survived against another monster puncher (this "nearly stopped" is in support of your argument?!), and then was stopped by a boxer who also stopped Tyson, Qwai, Douglas, and other top fighters, and he has one of the weakest jaws of heavyweight champions? You have to be kidding us.

And I'm guessing the man who was knocked out six times that SuzieQ goes ga-ga over didn't have a weak chin. Right?

He was knocked out three times, and was hurt on several occasions, including the light hitting Frans Botha. Moorer was a solid fighter, but his chin got in the way of his accomplishments. He wasnt an on his toes boxer. He plodded forward flat footed behind an excellent jab and liked to counter punch as he moved forward. Against the better opponents that style proved not to suit his chin, as he was hurt or knocked out consistently by the better fighters he faced.

[Bigcat]

I remember being incredibly impressed on how he adjusted to becoming a heavyweight of top drawer status.. the names were improving.. Alex Stewart, Terry Davis, Mike White , Smith , Billups etc.. Then i remember my heart sinking when i saw the first flaw surface , the first time Mike was dropped.. It spelled OH OHhhh...!!!

It was in a routine time filler fight in Michigan at the Palace in Aubern Hills when he walked onto a straight shot from Everrett Bigfoot Martin, he slumped backwards and looked up at Martin who was standing over him, as if to say.. WTF u hit me with man..?

I was wary from that day on, then he always seemed to know he could be caught and put down, it became something Michael always had to deal with and get over... He was dropped a furthr 2 times against Cooper, and again he was dropped against Holyfield in the first encounter to his defences he won on every occasion he was hurt.. against George he did a stupid thing... He was fighting a punch perfect execution against George and showing how father time had caught up with George, then he decided to do a tragic thing.. Stand right in front of a despairate Foreman late in the fight, It became his demise !! being dropped was one thing being KO'd was another , his psyche was damaged for a long time, Moorer v Holyfield 2 was the same thing , he was dropped and eventually made to look inept and finally suffer his second KO loss... The Tua loss and the Castillo loss were both after he should have hung em up but again he was dropped and looked sloppy..... Regrets , he never had a brawl with Tyson when he was again IBF champ, i suppose if Mike Tyson had beaten Holyfield , he would have face Tyson in a unification match, it may have been interesting as they could both hit and both werent in exact primes of thier careers but , it may have been a bit more colourful than a Tyson v Seldon..... The grateful part of Mikes career was a nice win over Jirov late in his career along with a win over a less than stellar Couser... Mike was haunted by a nasty chin , but at Light heavy he knows deep down he could have handled everyone they threw at him......

[lefthook31]

He wasnt even really a brawler, he was just a guy who stood flat footed and came forward or countered his opponent. His style consisted of catching a lot of punches off his gloves and sides and firing back, something that doesnt go along with having a suspect chin. This fight says it all.

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[MRBILL]

Is Moorer still considered active? I know he KO'd Tyson's cousin Clifford Couser in ONE round a year or so ago...... Is Moorer done?? I heard that the sum bitch was broke...... WTF? He made millions from his title fights of the 1990s......
:bbb:deal:D:rasta

MR.BILL

[lefthook31]

Is Moorer still considered active? I know he KO'd Tyson's cousin Clifford Couser in ONE round a year or so ago...... Is Moorer done?? I heard that the sum bitch was broke...... WTF? He made millions from his title fights of the 1990s......
:bbb:deal:D:rasta

MR.BILL
He is retired and he is broke. His money like so many before him was mismanaged and lost in poor investments. He was renting an apartment in south Florida, but now he is working at the Wild card gym as a second assistant to Freddie Roach

[MRBILL]

He is retired and he is broke. His money like so many before him was mismanaged and lost in poor investments. He was renting an apartment in south Florida, but now he is working at the Wild card gym as a second assistant to Freddie Roach

Jesus....:blood

MR.BILL:-(

[zadfrak]

I think he's the most accurate fighter the last 20 years or so. As a LH, he was deadly and he sure was a pinpoint puncher whenever he was 215 or thereabouts. When he went up in weight some of that accuracy left.

It's always hard to have great careers from the guys who just don't love the sport though.

[MRBILL]

I think he's the most accurate fighter the last 20 years or so. As a LH, he was deadly and he sure was a pinpoint puncher whenever he was 215 or thereabouts. When he went up in weight some of that accuracy left.

It's always hard to have great careers from the guys who just don't love the sport though.

I agree 100%......... Moorer was good to great between 175 to 215 pounds...... Too bad he lost focus.......... He had good technique.....:deal

MR.BILL

[zadfrak]

You know the other most accurate fighter the last 20 years is Michalczewski. I would've loved to have seen those 2 go at it if say Moorer stayed at lh and it took place instead of that Barber fight.

[GPater11093]

what do you gusy think about his involvement with pac do you think it will help Pac learn abit better fundamentals

[lefthook31]

probably not.

[Russell]

The mans heart wasn't in the sport from day one. He was always a brooding fighter with little love for the sport, always conflicted.

Hell of a career for that kind of mindset, though.