Esb hof

[GPater11093]

ok looking to start this up i know it probably has been done before but im really intrested in making one last and hopefully be stickyed

to start with we will have 20 nominees for each category you can choose as much as you like just now then popele with more than 3 votes wil be put forward to induction

the first induction will be 5 in each category the afterwards there will be 1 pick every fortnight

so hows this for a first draft nominee

Old Timer (Last Bout Before 1925)

Joe Gans - 2 vote
James J. Corbett
Jack Johnson - 3 vote
Sam Langford - 3 vote
Harry Wills
Bob Fitzimmons - 1 vote
Jimmy Wilde - 1 vote
Panco Villa
Jim Driscoll
George Dixon
Jack Britton
Ted 'Kid' Lewis - 1 vote
Young Griffo
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeanette
Mysteriuos Billy Smith
Nonpareil Jack Dempsey - 1 vote
Stanley Ketchell - 1 vote
Battling Nelson - 1 vote
Owen Moran
Jack McAuliffe
Ad Wolgast
Jack Dillon
Les Darcy - 1 vote
Abe Attell
John L. Sullivan - 1 vote
Jeff Clark
Terry McGovern
Newsboy Brown
Tommy Ryan

Modern (Fought after 1925 until 15 years ago)

Benny Leonard - 3 vote
Marvin Hagler - 1 vote
Jose Napoles - 1 vote
Benny Lynch
Jack Demspey - 2 vote
Rocky Marcaino - 1 vote
Ray Robinson - 4 vote
Harry Greb - 3 vote
Henry Armstrong - 3 vote
Ezzard Charles - 2 vote
Archie Moore - 2 vote
Carlos Monzon - 1 vote
Willie Pep - 2 vote
Sandy Saddler - 1 vote
Carmen Basilio - 1 vote
Wilfredo Benitez
Bob Foster - 1 vote
Khaosai Galaxy
Kid Gavilan - 2 vote
Fighting Harada
Buea Jack
Eder Jofre
Ike Willaims
Ismael laguna
Ken Buchanan
Muhammed Ali - 4 vote
Niccolino Locche
Ruben Olivarez
Lionel Rose
Pascal Perez - 1 vote
Luis Rodriguez
Emile Griffith - 1 vote
Salvador Sanchez - 1 vote
Dick Tiger
Carlos Zarate - 1 vote
Jersey Joe Walcott - 1 vote
Tony Zale
Chalky Wright
Fritzie Zivic
Miguel Canto
Barney Ross - 2 vote
Joe Louis - 2 vote
Joe frazier - 1 vote
Willie Ritchie - 1 vote
Mickey Walker - 2 vote
Tony Canzoneri - 1 vote
Gene Tunney - 1 vote

[mcvey]

ok looking to start this up i know it probably has been done before but im really intrested in making one last and hopefully be stickyed

well to start with i thought we should maybe have 20 inductees to start with and then nominate 4 each week and choose 1

so hows this for a first draft nominee

Sugar Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Harry greb
Sam Langford
Henry Armstrong
Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Carlos Monzon
Marvin hagler
Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Benny Leonard
Pernell Whittaker
Carlos Ortiz
Jimmy Wilde
Jack Johnson
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Emile Griffith
Carmen Basilio
Roy Jones Jr
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Oscar De La Hoya
Joe Frazier

Well ,I wish you luck ,something tells me you are going to need it!
PS It might be an idea to have a time lapse before fighters are eligible? Give people a chance to gain some objective perspective if that sentence makes sense.

[Manassa]

First off, set a cut-off point. As McVey said, you need a few years before you properly rate a fighter. I'd say, technical as it may be (that a fighter like Duran couldn't be entered), start off with fighters who were retired by 1995.

And then decide how far back you want to go. The first gloved world champion?

[Bill Butcher]

ok looking to start this up i know it probably has been done before but im really intrested in making one last and hopefully be stickyed

well to start with i thought we should maybe have 20 inductees to start with and then nominate 4 each week and choose 1

so hows this for a first draft nominee

Sugar Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Harry greb
Sam Langford
Henry Armstrong
Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Carlos Monzon
Marvin hagler
Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Benny Leonard
Pernell Whittaker
Carlos Ortiz
Jimmy Wilde
Jack Johnson
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Emile Griffith
Carmen Basilio
Roy Jones Jr
Floyd Mayweather Jr
Oscar De La Hoya
Joe Frazier

Good list :good

1 of those guys should be making way for Julio cesar Chavez tho.

[GPater11093]

ok Cut off date is 1995

and start date is first gloved champ so i will edit list

[Dempsey1238]

Marciano would have got my vote but he was not there lol.

[GPater11093]

hes there now im looking for the 20 guys you think should get in from that list or anyone missing from the list

[flamengo]

ok Cut off date is 1995

and start date is first gloved champ so i will edit list

Who is the 'first gloved' champ?? And what qualifies him for it???

[GPater11093]

Who is the 'first gloved' champ?? And what qualifies him for it???

John L. Sullivan for me as he was the first man to win a heavyweight title under queensberry rules and is generally regarded as the first gloved champ

but i dont know too much about the early days of boxing i admit

[mcvey]

ok looking to start this up i know it probably has been done before but im really intrested in making one last and hopefully be stickyed

well to start with i thought we should maybe have 20 inductees to start with and then nominate 4 each week and choose 1

so hows this for a first draft nominee

Sugar Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Harry greb
Sam Langford
Henry Armstrong
Muhammed Ali
Joe Louis
Carlos Monzon
Marvin hagler
Benny Leonard
Carlos Ortiz
Jimmy Wilde
Jack Johnson
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Emile Griffith
Carmen Basilio
Joe Frazier
Gene Tunney
Tommy Loughran
Jack Dempsey
Jose Napoles
Joe Gans
Rocky Marciano

You might want to think about dividing it into Old Timers or, whatever you want to call it ,and Moderns,again with a cut off point ,just a thought.

[GPater11093]

You might want to think about dividing it into Old Timers or, whatever you want to call it ,and Moderns,again with a cut off point ,just a thought.

good point will do that


can poeple start saying who they want in

[flamengo]

John L. Sullivan for me as he was the first man to win a heavyweight title under queensberry rules and is generally regarded as the first gloved champ

but i dont know too much about the early days of boxing i admit

Mate, I'm as knowlegable as yourself.

Corbett appears to be 'the first' of the Champs under Queensbury Rules. Having matched it with John L. in 1892.
John L. was apparently the last to claim the 'Championship' under Prize Ring Rules.

There's a mountain of queries and quandries. Janitor would be the one to make a better arangement.

[GPater11093]

Mate, I'm as knowlegable as yourself.

Corbett appears to be 'the first' of the Champs under Queensbury Rules. Having matched it with John L. in 1892.
John L. was apparently the last to claim the 'Championship' under Prize Ring Rules.

There's a mountain of queries and quandries. Janitor would be the one to make a better arangement.

ok well Janitor has told me that Sullivan was the first gloved champion beofe so im going form that

[flamengo]

Entry in Pioneers. Jem Mace.

[GPater11093]

Entry in Pioneers. Jem Mace.

ok will add him to Pioneer but im looking to get the fighters started then to Pioneers, Writers, judges, refs etc..

can you please tell me 10 fightrers on each list you want in or any fighters missing

[GPater11093]

ok looking to start this up i know it probably has been done before but im really intrested in making one last and hopefully be stickyed

to start with we will have 20 nominees for each category with 10 being picked

then every week there will be 4 nominees each week for every category and 1 inducted every week

so hows this for a first draft nominee

Old Timer (Last Bout Before 1925)

Joe Gans
James J. Corbett
Jack Johnson
Sam Langford
Harry Wills
Bob Fitzimmons
Jimmy Wilde
Panco Villa
Jim Driscoll
George Dixon
Jack Britton
Ted 'Kid' Lewis
Young Griffo
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeanette
Mysteriuos Billy Smith
Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
Stanley Ketchell
Battling Nelson
Owen Moran
Jack McAuliffe
Ad Wolgast
Jack Dillon
Les Darcy
Abe Attell

Modern (Fought after 1925 until 15 years ago)

Benny Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Jose Napoles
Benny Lynch
Jack Demspey
Rocky Marcaino
Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Carlos Monzon
Willie Pep
Sandy Saddler
Carmen Basilio
Wilfredo Benitez
Bob Foster
Khaosai Galaxy
Kid Gavilan
Fighting Harada
Buea Jack
Eder Jofre
Ike Willaims
Ismael laguna
Ken Buchanan
muhammed Ali
Niccolijno Locche
Ruben Olivarez
Lionel Rose
Pascal Perez
Luis Rodriguez
Emile Griffith
Salvador Sanchez
Dick Tiger
Carlos Zarate
Jersey Joe Walcott
Tony Zale
Chalky Wright
Fritzie Zivic
Miguel Canto

my picks

[GPater11093]

anyone else doing picks

[janitor]

ok well Janitor has told me that Sullivan was the first gloved champion beofe so im going form that

Put it this way.

Sullivan had over 200 profesional fights acording to some estimates and only 4 of them were under London prize ring rules.

He prefered to fight under queensbury rules and only fought under LPR if his opponent held all the aces.

I would say that makes him the first gloved champion

[janitor]

anyone else doing picks

I think it will happen.

Just give people a bit of time.

Your lists are good and informed, but I do think a couple of names got left off.

[GPater11093]

I think it will happen.

Just give people a bit of time.

cheers

for the stuff on Sullivan as well i thought you had told me tha before cheers for clearing it up

is there any missing from the old timers

[MrMarvel]

Good list :good

1 of those guys should be making way for Julio cesar Chavez tho.

Definitely.

[GPater11093]

Definitely.

fought after 1994

[natonic]

Ray Leonard??

[Dempsey1238]

hes there now im looking for the 20 guys you think should get in from that list or anyone missing from the list
Not looking at the list 20 guys off the top of my hand

Robinson 1
Armstrong 2
Ross 3
Marciano 4
Louis 5
Ali 6
Ted Kid Lewis 7
Kid Galvian 8
Carman B 9
Joe Gans 10
Joe Frazier 11
Battling Nelson 12
Willie Ritchie 13
Benny Leonard 14
Les Darcy 15
Greb 16
Walker 17
Dempsey 18
Johnson 19
and 20 would be Toney Canzi

[natonic]

I realize he technically had fights after '94 but he was a shell.

[GPater11093]

Not looking at the list 20 guys off the top of my hand

Robinson 1
Armstrong 2
Ross 3
Marciano 4
Louis 5
Ali 6
Ted Kid Lewis 7
Kid Galvian 8
Carman B 9
Joe Gans 10
Joe Frazier 11
Battling Nelson 12
Willie Ritchie 13
Benny Leonard 14
Les Darcy 15
Greb 16
Walker 17
Dempsey 18
Johnson 19
and 20 would be Toney Canzi

cheers

I realize he technically had fights after '94 but he was a shell.

rules are rules, its stopping Duran, Leoanrd and hearns aswell

[the cobra]

My first 20 picks

Ray Robinson
Sam Langford
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
John L Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Joe Gans
Joe Walcott
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
NP Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Benny Leonard
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Mickey Walker
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Barney Ross
Willie Pep

[janitor]

is there any missing from the old timers

Barbados Joe Walcott should be in.

Terry McGovern also

A few flyweights are missing if we gave them the credit of other weight classes.

One great fighter who never made it into the IBHOF who should have by any fair measure is Jeff Clark.

You could make a statment by putting him in this hall but it is up to you.

[GPater11093]

Barbados Joe Walcott should be in.

Terry McGovern also

A few flyweights are missing if we gave them the credit of other weight classes.

One great fighter who never made it into the IBHOF who should have by any fair measure is Jeff Clark.

You could make a statment by putting him in this hall but it is up to you.

ok cheers mate i dont think this hall of fame will hold much weight but i might put in Jeff Clark but he would have to be voted in.

what flyweights are missing in your opinion

[biglads]

I'd have Tommy Ryan in the old timers list. 2 weight (welter & middle) champion.

[janitor]

[quote=GPater11093;3934761]ok cheers mate i dont think this hall of fame will hold much weight but i might put in Jeff Clark but he would have to be voted in.


I have to be optimistic.


what flyweights are missing in your opinion


Lets start with Newsboy Brown.

Awsome record.

[TBooze]

Twenty seems a bit extreme.

If I were to do a ESB Hall of Fame/Greatness; I would keep it down to one entry a month, thus keeeping it a bit special and everyone who gets there deserves it.

Maybe get a list of eight/ten worthy contenders each month; and place them in a vote, that finishes at the end of the month; with the most popular getting in?

Perhaps also write a bio on the entrant?

[GPater11093]

Twenty seems a bit extreme.

If I were to do a ESB Hall of Fame/Greatness; I would keep it down to one entry a month, thus keeeping it a bit special and everyone who gets there deserves it.

Maybe get a list of eight/ten worthy contenders each month; and place them in a vote, that finishes at the end of the month; with the most popular getting in?

Perhaps also write a bio on the entrant?

i am going to write a bio for every entrant, yes 20 does seem extreme i will cut it down to 5 a month but 5 to start it

also cheers janitor i will add Brown

[MrMarvel]

Old Timer (Last Bout Before 1925)
Joe Gans
James J. Corbett
Jack Johnson
Sam Langford
Harry Wills
Bob Fitzimmons
Jimmy Wilde
Panco Villa
Jim Driscoll
George Dixon
Jack Britton
Ted 'Kid' Lewis
Young Griffo
Peter Jackson
Joe Jeanette
Mysteriuos Billy Smith
Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
Stanley Ketchell
Battling Nelson
Owen Moran
Jack McAuliffe
Ad Wolgast
Jack Dillon
Les Darcy
Abe Attell

Modern (Fought after 1925 until 15 years ago)

Benny Leonard
Marvin Hagler
Jose Napoles
Benny Lynch
Jack Demspey
Rocky Marcaino
Ray Robinson
Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Carlos Monzon
Willie Pep
Sandy Saddler
Carmen Basilio
Wilfredo Benitez
Bob Foster
Khaosai Galaxy
Kid Gavilan
Fighting Harada
Beau Jack
Eder Jofre
Ike Williams
Ismael laguna
Ken Buchanan
Muhammed Ali
Niccolijno Locche
Ruben Olivarez
Lionel Rose
Pascal Perez
Luis Rodriguez
Emile Griffith
Salvador Sanchez
Dick Tiger
Carlos Zarate
Jersey Joe Walcott
Tony Zale
Chalky Wright
Fritzie Zivic
Miguel Canto[/quote]

[TBooze]

With the 15 year rule rightly in place; my five would be:

Pioneers: Jem Mace and Jack Broughton

Old Timers: Sammy Langford

Modern: Muhammad Ali and Ray Robinson

Broughton and Mace both were the most influential (not Figg and Queensberry) in putting the modern sport together.

Broughton through being the first to put together rules for Prize fighting.

Mace was the first big name to see the benefits of fighting with gloves, and because of his popular world tours, reestablished the sport, as the authorities were driving out fighting under London Prize Rules.

Sammy Langford was arguably the most gifted fighter of the first half of the 20th century.

Muhammad Ali was an icon, Sports (as in every sport) Personality of the 20th Century; love him or hate him, it was and still is hard to ignore him.

Ray Robinson was arguably the finest fighter there has ever been in the squared circle. A dazzling fighter and a personality to match, boxing was damn lucky to have him.

[GPater11093]

With the 15 year rule rightly in place; my five would be:

Pioneers: Jem Mace and Jack Broughton

Old Timers: Sammy Langford

Modern: Muhammad Ali and Ray Robinson

Broughton and Mace both were the most influential (not Figg and Queensberry) in putting the modern sport together.

Broughton through being the first to put together rules for Prize fighting.

Mace was the first big name to see the benefits of fighting with gloves, and because of his popular world tours, reestablished the sport, as the authorities were driving out fighting under London Prize Rules.

Sammy Langford was arguably the most gifted fighter of the first half of the 20th century.

Muhammad Ali was an icon, Sports (as in every sport) Personality of the 20th Century; love him or hate him, it was and still is hard to ignore him.

Ray Robinson was arguably the finest fighter there has ever been in the squared circle. A dazzling fighter and a personality to match, boxing was damn lucky to have him.

cheers mate and everybody else who has nominated

i am going to do pioneer after this nominations and it is up and running

[flamengo]

Put it this way.

Sullivan had over 200 profesional fights acording to some estimates and only 4 of them were under London prize ring rules.

He prefered to fight under queensbury rules and only fought under LPR if his opponent held all the aces.

I would say that makes him the first gloved champion

I'd like to hear about 60 of them, to start with. I'd also like to hear of atleast 40 of them which were not 'exhibition' bouts, with the legitimate rules that allowed a fight to the finish, for the sole purpose of making money LEGALLY.. I'd like to hear of genuine challengers, with genuine records and genuine ability to fight for the 'Championship' of a genuine nature.

Your knowlege is second to none on the 'classic forum' Janitor, please fill me in mate.

[GPater11093]

bump

[Dempsey1238]

If any Pioneers should go in, I go with Jim Belcher, Monzoda, Jackson, Tom Cribb as the first and foremost before Mace gets in.

These guys were the icons of the day.

[GPater11093]

ok will add tem later when he have done the main vote

[TBooze]

If any Pioneers should go in, I go with Jim Belcher, Monzoda, Jackson, Tom Cribb as the first and foremost before Mace gets in.

These guys were the icons of the day.


To clarify, Mace gets in as a Pioneer of Queensberry Rules boxing. Although it should be noted Mace's trainer Nat Langham did a lot of development work in London Prize fighting.

Mace's iconic status, worldwide, is greater than all those listed above.