admit it....who was fooled by Hatton's boxing career?

[Betty Swollocks]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.

[onourway]

Shut up, you boring, repetitive cunt.

[HairyHighlander]

You my friend is Hattons biggest fan right now


Enjoy

[GazOC]

A boxer gets KO'd in 2009 after being a world champion for 4 years and you feel vindicated in giving him shit since 2003?

Your post would be funny if it wasn't so pathetically predictable.

[Dan684]

Shit Thread

[BIG WORM]

yep

i was fooled

hattons shot, 2005 hatton at least makes it to the 12th

[scurlaruntings]

A boxer gets KO'd in 2009 after being a world champion for 4 years and you feel vindicated in giving him shit since 2003?

Your post would be funny if it wasn't so pathetically predictable.The WBU champions are world champs as well you know. Ricky is a 6 time world champ if you count the WBU and IBO :lol: Artur Grigorian held the WBO title for 9 years. 9 fucking years. Guess what Artur never fought a fighter with a pulse. When he did he got made to look like an amateur vs Acelino Freitas. Do the maths Gazoc and take Hattons cock out of your mouth already.

[scurlaruntings]

yep

i was fooled

hattons shot, 2005 hatton at least makes it to the 12thHe's not shot in the slightest. This is what happens when the level of your competition goes up.

[scurlaruntings]

Fucking AWESOME ThreadFixed :good

[HairyHighlander]

The WBU champions are world champs as well you know. Ricky is a 6 time world champ if you count the WBU and IBO :lol: Artur Grigorian held the WBO title for 9 years. 9 fucking years. Guess what Artur never fought a fighter with a pulse. When he did he got made to look like an amateur vs Acelino Freitas. Do the maths Gazoc and take Hattons cock out of your mouth already.


I dont think he was judging the fight on the WBU etc scurla

Same ways am sure Manny wasnt

ty

[GazOC]

Hatton was lineal champion for 4 years, beat a very decent level of oppostion and came up short when he took fights against the very best in the world.

What a shit career eh?

[Beeston Brawler]

You sad wankers.

He lost. So what.

No need to start shredding his career.

[HairyHighlander]

You sad wankers.

He lost. So what.

No need to start shredding his career.


Zactly

Betty loves him, Scurla cant as Betty is first with the atm

[HairyHighlander]

P.S.



Manny is GOD


Hatton is.............better than most of us

[scurlaruntings]

You sad wankers.

He lost. So what.

No need to start shredding his career.The making of a fighter is WHO he fought and WHEN he fought them. Iv been watching Hatton since he turned pro. I saw a good talent. Then i saw FW making good money out of a simple brawler. I then saw that brawler take his trade to a world level whilst wrapped in cotton wool. I then watched him pick and choose his opposition and WHO he would fight and WHEN he would fight them and on what terms. That leaves a career that has alot to be desired. The writing was on the wall here. Some chose to read it. Most did not.

[Beeston Brawler]

I never said he was the best British fighter ever!

For the record.... what British fighters do you actually like?

You hate Calzaghe - fair enough
You hate Hatton - again, depending on your perspective
You don't like Lewis - ditto

Haye, Froch?

Thoughts?

[GazOC]

I know you and the other Chuckle Brother are on the wind up but I can't believe you want credit for claiming to spot something 6-7 years ago that manifested itself after the fighter has been a world champion for 4 years and gets beat at the age of 31....?

Please tell me you're joking....

[HairyHighlander]

The making of a fighter is WHO he fought and WHEN he fought them. Iv been watching Hatton since he turned pro. I saw a good talent. Then i saw FW making good money out of a simple brawler. I then saw that brawler take his trade to a world level whilst wrapped in cotton wool. I then watched him pick and choose his opposition and WHO he would fight and WHEN he would fight them and on what terms. That leaves a career that has alot to be desired. The writing was on the wall here. Some chose to read it. Most did not.


He made money.


With the "help" of others............


Boy did good.


Im now playing "Nephlim Modulation Systems" scurla, you may like


Sure he talked 10000000000000000000000 times of p4p etc............and ?


Now he lives with the fishes ,no ?

[HairyHighlander]

Scurla = Bitter


End off


You a mate of a sparring "pardner" or something ?

[scurlaruntings]

He made money.


With the "help" of others............


Boy did good.


Im now playing "Nephlim Modulation Systems" scurla, you may like


Sure he talked 10000000000000000000000 times of p4p etc............and ?


Now he lives with the fishes ,no ?:lol:Point taken. The boy made money. But not at my expense. Ignorance is truly bliss aye.

[sitiyzal]

Garbage thread.

[HairyHighlander]

:lol:Point taken. The boy made money. But not at my expense. Ignorance is truly bliss aye.


Easys


No cash wasted here, just as yaself..........good or bad, it brought something

[scurlaruntings]

I never said he was the best British fighter ever!

For the record.... what British fighters do you actually like?

You hate Calzaghe - fair enough
You hate Hatton - again, depending on your perspective
You don't like Lewis - ditto

Haye, Froch?

Thoughts?GOT BUNDLES of time for Froch and Haye. They dont pick and choose there opponents. There not aloof and dont carry themselves above the sport. The only British fighters iv never liked are the 3 you mention. I watched Hatton and Joe wrapped in cotton wool for years at SN. And LL never endeared himself to no one and was a classic right time right place guy. I will not and refuse to reward medicority with a stamp of approval. Guys like Haye and Froch went out of there way to put it on the line and fight for what they wanted. Thats exactly what Lloyd Honeyghan did. Joe and Hatton have had it all handed to them on a plate. Thats not a fair shake considering the career of there British peers.

[richard_mcnair]

he beat some very very good fighters in his time, and he only ever lost to the very best.
No shame in losing to the very very best.

[TFFP]

Not exactly. A few of us never rated Hatton's style or skill. He got by with not even holding his hands up, and using clinching to avoid resetting and putting himself in danger. Horrible horrible defence for so many years.

That said he was a world class fighter. Far from great, that was his problem, there was a chasm between him and Mayweather/Manny Pac.

[HairyHighlander]

Not exactly. A few of us never rated Hatton's style or skill. He got by with not even holding his hands up, and using clinching to avoid resetting and putting himself in danger. Horrible horrible defence for so many years.

That said he was a world class fighter. Far from great, that was his problem, there was a chasm between him and Mayweather/Manny Pac.

Good words


Easy said in the light of day



Im now playing The Bug - Poison Dart Ft Warrior Queen

[Sheehan]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.

how the fuck were you right all along when you picked him to lose the majority of his fights

[HairyHighlander]

he beat some very very good fighters in his time, and he only ever lost to the very best.
No shame in losing to the very very best.


He lost to the best and was found out so to speak

The man himself sat with FW and fought whatever he was fed.


He lost to current boxing "gods"


If i was to be pissed off with him, it would be the 3rd person ( as i am with a workmate for example )...............though given his stretch, you canna blame him.


We just saw a current day brit/eng etc fighter go to the graves.


Fair play to him and all the best

[HairyHighlander]

how the fuck were you right all along when you picked him to lose the majority of his fights


:rofl QUALITY

[brown bomber]

Last night was a demonstration of the gulf in class between true ATG status and your normal(er) 'world champions'. It was sad to see Ricky lose in that fashion but he was a victim of his own design in a sense that he seemed caught between styles.

Going forwards with your hands up- Good.

Counter punching with your hands down- A method of creating openings. Good.

Going forward with your hands down against a speedster with major power. Bad. Very Bad.

The Mayweather move has proved to be a bad one in this case and many people suggested that he would have been better served reverting to the hands high pressure style. Truth is Hatton would never have beaten Pacquiao, who is in his prime. The same way Calzaghe would have never beaten Jones jnr and Khan wouldn't have a hope in hell of beating Barrera.

Don't mix oppertune match-making with true ATG capability.

Hatton has had a fabulous career and was a GENUINE world champion. He wasn't a great 140er but he was very entertaining and scored some impressive international wins. Nothing to be ashamed of.

[HairyHighlander]

Last night was a demonstration of the gulf in class between true ATG status and your normal(er) 'world champions'. It was sad to see Ricky lose in that fashion but he was a victim of his own design in a sense that he seemed caught between styles.

Going forwards with your hands up- Good.

Counter punching with your hands down- A method of creating openings. Good.

Going forward with your hands down against a speedster with major power. Bad. Very Bad.

The Mayweather move has proved to be a bad one in this case and many people suggested that he would have been better served reverting to the hands high pressure style. Truth is Hatton would never have beaten Pacquiao, who is in his prime. The same way Calzaghe would have never beaten Jones jnr and Khan wouldn't have a hope in hell of beating Barrera.

Don't mix oppertune match-making with true ATG capability.

Hatton has had a fabulous career and was a GENUINE world champion. He wasn't a great 140er but he was very entertaining and scored some impressive international wins. Nothing to be ashamed of.


Well said, i dont type much so its easier to quote ppl.

This is also where i was stuck regarding how it panned out, didnt know how Hatton was coming in. I said a few times , "no idea" regarding the fight. Hatton old regarding covering them up, no space etc, looking rough ala Kosta would have worked here, ok, worked "better" maybe.

Seeing him with FM Sr getting back to basics was fine to some extent, not for this fight though, especially.

Ricky boxing ? SURE


Against Pac...........no ty

Hearing Roach get angry telling Manny it better finish within 3 rounds wasnt surprising in a Trainer/Fighter modus either.

Roach saw something that a lot of us didnt.

Fundamentals maybe

[Rebel-INS]

yep

i was fooled

hattons shot, 2005 hatton at least makes it to the 12th

Oh so Hatton's now instantly shot, after you claimed he would win last night?

[hitman_hatton1]

there's nothing to be fooled by with hatton.

he proved he weren't a dud like some were saying.

at the same time he didn't quite reach the heights either.

quite simple really. :deal

[Rebel-INS]

there's nothing to be fooled by with hatton.

he proved he weren't a dud like some were saying.

at the same time he didn't quite reach the heights either.

quite simple really. :deal

Pretty much. World Class fighter, just not in the elite class.

[Healy]

No more than a decent brawler with good heart

Never a class fighter or boxers, struggled with average level fighters, had a few good wins alright but failed in a huge way when stepping up to the highest level

[Healy]

World Class fighter, just not in the elite class.:lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl

He doesnt even have a jab, he cant box for shit and usually out bullyed fighters to win that way

You are having a laugh

[El Cepillo]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.


All this based on losing two fights to the P4P Kings.

Yeah, he lost to Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio so his entire career's a sham.

Whatever you say.

[El Cepillo]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl

He doesnt even have a jab, he cant box for shit and usually out bullyed fighters to win that way

You are having a laugh

If you don't think that Hatton was a world class fighter, then you don't understand the meanings of the words 'world class'.

How can a guy who won four world titles at two weights, was the linear champ and beat two P4P elites not be "world class?", thats pretty much the definition of world class.

[ApatheticLeader]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.
Oh for fuck's sake....

Hatton had a very good career. He just struggles with the true elite. You're just being a cunt now.

[Mandanda]

i've never liked or rated hatton. i seen his early fights and as a young lad growing up i just disliked the guy. i always knew the style was flawed and that once he fought guys in there prime at world level he get beat and he has.

i like supporting a brit but i never have or will support hatton i just don't like the guy and i dislike fighters that are overatted. i think the wbu years and over hyping made me dislike him even more then i really should.

he can win at world level but not elite world level basically p4p top 15 fighters he just doesn't have the skills or the brain. he is what he is a agressive brawler and he never wanted to change and maybe in some ways the tyszu fight actually did more harm then good on his career because of the way he won and that he seemed to think thats how to win fights at world level and that he is a unstoppable machine which he aint and never was.

[John18]

Ricky was World Class, but not ATG material, that sums it up.

And as for having a glass jaw - are you having a laugh? He took flush shots from Kostya. His unacceptable lifestyle away from the ring has shortened his career to the point where his punch resistance leeched away. Getting rocked by Lazcano confirmed it for me.

But the way you (Scurla? can't remember who said it) imply he always had a glass chin..........can't agree.

[Boro chris]

Hatton was a decent but fundamentally flawed fighter. World class certainly (Healy your waaaay off the mark on this one) but a long way short of true elite fighters. In fact I have doubts on weather he'd beat Witter.

I'd also like to add that Betty and Scurla are two sad, pathetic little cunts who seem to be despised by most of the Brit forum.
Go fuck yourselves!:good

[Mandanda]

Ricky was World Class, but not ATG material, that sums it up.

And as for having a glass jaw - are you having a laugh? He took flush shots from Kostya. His unacceptable lifestyle away from the ring has shortened his career to the point where his punch resistance leeched away. Getting rocked by Lazcano confirmed it for me.

But the way you (Scurla? can't remember who said it) imply he always had a glass chin..........can't agree.

in my opinion john ricky always had that air of vulnerability around him becuase of his reckless defence and that he walks onto flush counters he aint no amir khan though but i think he has affected his punch resistence big time with the drinking and eating binges.

[Betty Swollocks]

All this based on losing two fights to the P4P Kings.

Yeah, he lost to Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio so his entire career's a sham.

Whatever you say.


it's not based on 2 fights at all.

his supposed big wins over Tszyu and Castillo were against good but not ATG great fighters who had at least 1 foot in retirement. The Tyszu fight was a farce and in truuth he's been dining out on that and his bafflingly large fanbase for 4-5 years. Most felt he lost to a very medicore guy in Collazo.
after all the p4p title take and 3rd person spiel, it was satisfying to see him get knocked out so spectacularly.

[John18]

in my opinion john ricky always had that air of vulnerability around him becuase of his reckless defence and that he walks onto flush counters he aint no amir khan though but i think he has affected his punch resistence big time with the drinking and eating binges.

I can see that. He could be vulnerable but always took them well IMO up till Mayweather. But it was Lazcano that worried me and made me think something had changed.

[Mandanda]

I can see that. He could be vulnerable but always took them well IMO up till Mayweather. But it was Lazcano that worried me and made me think something had changed.

yeah i agree that lazcano fight made me so sure that manny could take ricky out i expected it a little latter and not as spectacular but i certainly agree lazcano he was getting hit and holding and falling around ring i know they said he had chest infection but he was disorientated by blows from not a huge puncher.

[achillesthegreat]

This thread is pathetic. All the Hatton haters are ceritified morons. His record speaks for itself. He has two losses to the best fighters in the world when he fought them. I love how wins over Tszyu, Castillo, Malignaggi etc are totally overlooked or discredited.

[Metal Man]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl

He doesnt even have a jab, he cant box for shit and usually out bullyed fighters to win that way

You are having a laugh

if he was not a world class fighter then how did he even get into the position of fighting guys like Mayweather and Pac in fights that generated interest around the world where the p4p title was arguablly at stake.He was ranked the no 1 fighter in his division for the last 4 years by all credible boxing sources.Your not ranked no 1 in any division by Ring being anything less than a good fighter.Even the biggest Hatton haters and detractors should at least aknowledge that British boxing would have been a duller place over the last few years without Hatton.The guy put bums on seats,generated money and raised the profile of the sport in every big fight he took as well as inspiring a potential generation of young lads particularly in the North West to take up boxing.

[sick2death]

so serious metal man

[Healy]

if he was not a world class fighter then how did he even get into the position of fighting guys like Mayweather and Pac in fights that generated interest around the world where the p4p title was arguablly at stake.He was ranked the no 1 fighter in his division for the last 4 years by all credible boxing sources.Your not ranked no 1 in any division by Ring being anything less than a good fighter.Even the biggest Hatton haters and detractors should at least aknowledge that British boxing would have been a duller place over the last few years without Hatton.The guy put bums on seats,generated money and raised the profile of the sport in every big fight he took as well as inspiring a potential generation of young lads particularly in the North West to take up boxing.
He was world class by the fact he won titles at one weight under every alphabet organisation going...but had no defence throughout his career, never outboxed good fighters, got by by bullying and bending rules, even in his biggest win...

Terrible fighter to watch and thankfully its now over

P4P my fucking ring pipe

[Philphy Rich]

I'd also like to add that Betty and Scurla are two
Knowledgable, godlike legends

[El Cepillo]

it's not based on 2 fights at all.

his supposed big wins over Tszyu and Castillo were against good but not ATG great fighters who had at least 1 foot in retirement. The Tyszu fight was a farce and in truuth he's been dining out on that and his bafflingly large fanbase for 4-5 years. Most felt he lost to a very medicore guy in Collazo.
after all the p4p title take and 3rd person spiel, it was satisfying to see him get knocked out so spectacularly.

You were running with the notion that Hatton's career was exposed as a sham because he got KTFO by two P4P kings. Which in itself is not a totally outlandish thing to suggest, if you somehow subscribe to the perception that Hatton was some brilliant boxer who would go on to be a Sugar Ray Leonard type legend of the sport.

Hatton was simply a tough brawler with a big heart who had a very good career. The only reason I can see why you dislike him is because he is very popular and some of his fans thought he was better than he actually was. This happens with all fighters, as far as I can tell. I'm not sure that Hatton's mob are any worse than Calzaghe's.

[Rebel-INS]

He was world class by the fact he won titles at one weight under every alphabet organisation going...but had no defence throughout his career, never outboxed good fighters, got by by bullying and bending rules, even in his biggest win...

Terrible fighter to watch and thankfully its now over

P4P my fucking ring pipe

No he was never elite, P4P material or anything particularly special, but he was definitely World Class.
I can't stand the bloke or his awful style, but I'm not gonna say he wasn't World Class when he obviously was.

[sick2death]

or naseems

[trotter]

He was world class by the fact he won titles at one weight under every alphabet organisation going...but had no defence throughout his career, never outboxed good fighters, got by by bullying and bending rules, even in his biggest win...

Terrible fighter to watch and thankfully its now over

P4P my fucking ring pipe

Bullying?

It's not fucking chess, what's wrong with you?

I see you've moved the goalposts from 'world class' to 'p4p'

[rydersonthestorm]

GOT BUNDLES of time for Froch and Haye. They dont pick and choose there opponents. There not aloof and dont carry themselves above the sport. The only British fighters iv never liked are the 3 you mention. I watched Hatton and Joe wrapped in cotton wool for years at SN. And LL never endeared himself to no one and was a classic right time right place guy. I will not and refuse to reward medicority with a stamp of approval. Guys like Haye and Froch went out of there way to put it on the line and fight for what they wanted. Thats exactly what Lloyd Honeyghan did. Joe and Hatton have had it all handed to them on a plate. Thats not a fair shake considering the career of there British peers.
What a load of shit, i am one of hayes biggest fans but he is easily more aloof than hatton, neither haye nor froch have been in with fighters anywhere near the quality of mayweather of pacman so your point's make no sense what so ever.

[rydersonthestorm]

This website has some of the worst haters on the face of the earth, hatton is a world class fighter and has had an excellent career he just got beat twice by two much better fighters whats the big shame in that.

[Healy]

Bullying?

It's not fucking chess, what's wrong with you?

I see you've moved the goalposts from 'world class' to 'p4p'P4P was mentioned, so why wouldnt i address it...just laugh that shit off straight away

Even my mates who dont watch it were asking how he could be P4P when he fought at 140 his whole career...bar the 2 disasters at 147

Yes, bullying, smaller men at the weight. That was always his tactic, kill himself to make 140, be 6-8 lbs heavier than the opponent and bully him all the way. Limited ability.

That was always his game plan, never outboxed fighters, completely overated. Had heart and will. Then $$$ and going to big time in the USA took over and he became a joke.

Fair play for getting so far with so little talent is what i say. Go through his features, more negatives that positives...ie-boxing ability is average, chin isnt great, terrible defence, no jab and so on

Defend him all you want though:good

[Healy]

This website has some of the worst haters on the face of the earth, hatton is a world class fighter and has had an excellent career he just got beat twice by two much better fighters whats the big shame in that.
Do world class fighter constantly struggle? Hatton did against Maussa, Collazo, Urango he looked shit, Lazcano....

He will always have the Koysta win though, props there.

[rydersonthestorm]

Yes, bullying, smaller men at the weight. That was always his tactic, kill himself to make 140, be 6-8 lbs heavier than the opponent and bully him all the way. Limited ability.


By hattons measurements he shouldn't be a lww he should have started at a smaller weight as he isn't a big guy.

[rydersonthestorm]

Do world class fighter constantly struggle? Hatton did against Maussa, Collazo, Urango he looked shit, Lazcano....

He will always have the Koysta win though, props there.
so which fighters are world class then by your reckoning that only makes a couple.

[Healy]

By hattons measurements he shouldn't be a lww he should have started at a smaller weight as he isn't a big guy.

Ok, well lets say we focus on weight.. He just got destroyed by a former Flyweight

[Healy]

so which fighters are world class then by your reckoning that only makes a couple.
In that case, Bernard Dunne is world class :good

Such and overated fighter Hatton was, if he wasnt English i can imagine the talk about him

Trying to defend him over and over:patsch

[scurlaruntings]

What a load of shit, i am one of hayes biggest fans but he is easily more aloof than hatton, neither haye nor froch have been in with fighters anywhere near the quality of mayweather of pacman so your point's make no sense what so ever.Lets see haye fought the best man in his division and is pencilled in to fight Vladimir. He hasnt taken the short route to stardom and worked his way up the hard way. Froch also did the same without the financial backing or clout that SN has over Hennesy. If you cannot understand that then find another sport to watch.

[SouthpawSlayer]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.

you never mentioned me betty :good

[rydersonthestorm]

Ok, well lets say we focus on weight.. He just got destroyed by a former Flyweight
I just find it funny that guys like you and scurla are giving hatton such a slating when you are a big fan of dunne and have been saying he was world class when he got sparked by a very average fighter and has beaten nobody of any real significance, Then you have scurla the big witter man, witter being a guy who never fought the top guys and then got battered by bradley who is many levels below floyd or pacman.

[SouthpawSlayer]

Ok, well lets say we focus on weight.. He just got destroyed by a former Flyweight


:lol::lol::lol:

[rydersonthestorm]

Lets see haye fought the best man in his division and is pencilled in to fight Vladimir. He hasnt taken the short route to stardom and worked his way up the hard way. Froch also did the same without the financial backing or clout that SN has over Hennesy. If you cannot understand that then find another sport to watch.
What a crock of shit, you mean the same carl froch that is older than ricky hatton, carl froch has only just got a decent win and he is older than ricky and has spent the last 3-4 years doing nothing and calling out calzaghe.
Haye despite being my favourite fighter hasn't fought anyone at heavyweight to get a shot and didn't clean out the crusierweight divsion, he and froch have done things a different way but why is it better hatton has fought far better fighters than either man and while he may have lost to floyd and manny who's to say froch and haye would not lose to fighters of that level.

[scurlaruntings]

Ok, well lets say we focus on weight.. He just got destroyed by a former FlyweightYou see the point here Healy. They make myraids of excuses time again. The weight. His only small bla bla. Pac was a fucking flyweight who's been as high as 47 and had MASSIVE success. Ricky couldnt even go 7lbs north. Shane Oscar Zab Gatti Cotto etc all marched through the weights with success and Ricky who according to his fans was sooo strong so big for the weight got mauled by a flyweight who actually according to there physical statistics other than an inch diffrence in height was actually the bigger man. Either way its immaterial. Ricky just simply wasnt and never has been good enough.

[rydersonthestorm]

You see the point here Healy. They make myraids of excuses time again. The weight. His only small bla bla. Pac was a fucking flyweight who's been as high as 47 and had MASSIVE success. Ricky couldnt even go 7lbs north. Shane Oscar Zab Gatti Cotto etc all marched through the weights with success and Ricky who according to his fans was sooo strong so big for the weight got mauled by a flyweight who actually according to there physical statistics other than an inch diffrence in height was actually the bigger man. Either way its immaterial. Ricky just simply wasnt and never has been good enough.
So losing to perhaps the two best fighters of the last 15-20 years makes you not good enough what a load of shit, hatton was world class and a world champions he just wasn't at the level of the true atg that floyd and manny will be seen as.

[scurlaruntings]

I just find it funny that guys like you and scurla are giving hatton such a slating when you are a big fan of dunne and have been saying he was world class when he got sparked by a very average fighter and has beaten nobody of any real significance, Then you have scurla the big witter man, witter being a guy who never fought the top guys and then got battered by bradley who is many levels below floyd or pacman.Why dont you go away and actually watch there fights and careers and then report back to me hmmkay pumpkin. Its pretty obvious your towing the same tired joyboy lines of the usual Hatton jocks. Would you care to explain WHY Hatton refused to face Witer despite saying he would numerous times on live TV over the last decade. And do not site money resume as an excuse as Witter did everything asked of him by Ricky. His fans said he would blow him away and yet Ricky wouldnt face him when he was legit humber 2 in the division, when he was a world champ and when BOTH were promoted by SN. If Witter was such a nobody why not silenced your critics? Il tell you why because ****** and Ricky were not stupid and neither were the hardcore fans.

[rydersonthestorm]

Why dont you go away and actually watch there fights and careers and then report back to me hmmkay pumpkin. Its pretty obvious your towing the same tired joyboy lines of the usual Hatton jocks. Would you care to explain WHY Hatton refused to face Witer despite saying he would numerous times on live TV over the last decade. And do not site money resume as an excuse as Witter did everything asked of him by Ricky. His fans said he would blow him away and yet Ricky wouldnt face him when he was legit humber 2 in the division, when he was a world champ and when BOTH were promoted by SN. If Witter was such a nobody why not silenced your critics? Il tell you why because ****** and Ricky were not stupid and neither were the hardcore fans.
witter is less world class than hatton at least hatton fought the best and failed, witter fought the average and looked average. Your obviously have no level of objectivity due to your hate for hatton. You are making silly claims about fighters who have done alot less than hatton and still come up short. So what if hatton didn't fight witter he has fought a number of far better fighters than witter.

[SouthpawSlayer]

You see the point here Healy. They make myraids of excuses time again. The weight. His only small bla bla. Pac was a fucking flyweight who's been as high as 47 and had MASSIVE success. Ricky couldnt even go 7lbs north. Shane Oscar Zab Gatti Cotto etc all marched through the weights with success and Ricky who according to his fans was sooo strong so big for the weight got mauled by a flyweight who actually according to there physical statistics other than an inch diffrence in height was actually the bigger man. Either way its immaterial. Ricky just simply wasnt and never has been good enough.


exactly what he said, if hatton was as good as everyone was saying he would of had a lot more ease moving to 147 and performing, billy graham always said he never wanted hatton to fight at 147, why not?? if he is a s good as what i hear the fighter should be able to adapt

can someone name one fighter on the p4p list who couldnt move up in weight and perform, hattons whole career was based on the KT win, since then his most notable win was castillo who was ruined since the first corrales fight, and we all know collazo won the fight that night against hatton

as far as im concerned now hatton is finished and should retire as he wouldnt even beat kotelnik at the moment, i was always a strong believer that bradley would of beaten hatton and i know im right

[rydersonthestorm]

Why dont you go away and actually watch there fights and careers and then report back to me hmmkay pumpkin. Its pretty obvious your towing the same tired joyboy lines of the usual Hatton jocks. Would you care to explain WHY Hatton refused to face Witer despite saying he would numerous times on live TV over the last decade. And do not site money resume as an excuse as Witter did everything asked of him by Ricky. His fans said he would blow him away and yet Ricky wouldnt face him when he was legit humber 2 in the division, when he was a world champ and when BOTH were promoted by SN. If Witter was such a nobody why not silenced your critics? Il tell you why because ****** and Ricky were not stupid and neither were the hardcore fans.
Also i am not even a big hatton fan, you will not find many posts of me talking joyboy shit about him, i just find yours and a few other postera attitudes pathetic and very hypocritical.

[scurlaruntings]

So losing to perhaps the two best fighters of the last 15-20 years makes you not good enough what a load of shit, hatton was world class and a world champions he just wasn't at the level of the true atg that floyd and manny will be seen as.What about the Chop Chop fight when Corley was the WBO champ. Why did Ricky reneg on his number 1 and refuse to fight him? What about Pinto? Why did that fight not happen? Pinto went on to to fight Cotto and Cotto won the WBO. What about Cotto? Why did that fight not happen when Ricky said he wanted to fight him? What about when Ricky was the WBA mandatory to an unbeaten Harris? What was the excuse then? All we hear is excuses and short memories from you gimps. None of you are aware of the facts or you choose to ignore it. What do you think would have happened if he'd got in the ring with SSM Marg Cintron Torres etc. Easy night at the races right? But the excuse is now he was fighting an elite fighter! No this is what happens when you step into REAL world class. Theres a big diffrence between collecting belts and fighting REAL WORLD CLASS TALENT.

[scurlaruntings]

witter is less world class than hatton at least hatton fought the best and failed, witter fought the average and looked average. Your obviously have no level of objectivity due to your hate for hatton. You are making silly claims about fighters who have done alot less than hatton and still come up short. So what if hatton didn't fight witter he has fought a number of far better fighters than witter.Your not privvy to what happened at Sports Network between ****** Hatton and Ricky are you. Wrap a fighter in cotton wool and hand feed him. Chuck the other one to the lions who ends up with a rival promotion and goes the traditonal route rather than Lonsdale WBU world honours. Yeah your really mr current affairs.
:roll:

[scurlaruntings]

Also i am not even a big hatton fan, you will not find many posts of me talking joyboy shit about him, i just find yours and a few other postera attitudes pathetic and very hypocritical.You might want to look up the meaning of the word Hypocritical. Im a realist. Il call bullshit when i see it. The smoke and mirrors never fooled me. It clearly fooled you.

[Healy]

I just find it funny that guys like you and scurla are giving hatton such a slating when you are a big fan of dunne and have been saying he was world class when he got sparked by a very average fighter and has beaten nobody of any real significance, Then you have scurla the big witter man, witter being a guy who never fought the top guys and then got battered by bradley who is many levels below floyd or pacman.Im personally not saying IS world class, but if someone does say it, you or i dont have to agree with it..

Its subjective

[rydersonthestorm]

What about the Chop Chop fight when Corley was the WBO champ. Why did Ricky reneg on his number 1 and refuse to fight him? What about Pinto? Why did that fight not happen? Pinto went on to to fight Cotto and Cotto won the WBO. What about Cotto? Why did that fight not happen when Ricky said he wanted to fight him? What about when Ricky was the WBA mandatory to an unbeaten Harris? What was the excuse then? All we hear is excuses and short memories from you gimps. None of you are aware of the facts or you choose to ignore it. What do you think would have happened if he'd got in the ring with SSM Marg Cintron Torres etc. Easy night at the races right? But the excuse is now he was fighting an elite fighter! No this is what happens when you step into REAL world class. Theres a big diffrence between collecting belts and fighting REAL WORLD CLASS TALENT.
There is no point even talking with you, you are one of the most biased posters i ahv ever seen. :verysad

[rydersonthestorm]

You might want to look up the meaning of the word Hypocritical. Im a realist. Il call bullshit when i see it. The smoke and mirrors never fooled me. It clearly fooled you.
Yeah really that's why you think witter has done well despite fight nobody and losing to bardley but he has done far more than hatton. :patsch:patsch:patsch

[rydersonthestorm]

Im personally not saying IS world class, but if someone does say it, you or i dont have to agree with it..

Its subjective
When a guy has beaten a number of very good fighters and only lost to the very best he is obviously still world class just not atg material.

[scurlaruntings]

Yeah really that's why you think witter has done well despite fight nobody and losing to bardley but he has done far more than hatton. :patsch:patsch:patschI have never insinuated once he has done more than Hatton. Learn to read. I asked a question. You evaded it and are now meandering about some drivel i never even said because of your weak interpretation of the FACTS. Answer my question or go away.

[rydersonthestorm]

I have never insinuated once he has done more than Hatton. Learn to read. I asked a question. You evaded it and are now meandering about some drivel i never even said because of your weak interpretation of the FACTS. Answer my question or go away.
I can tell by your pathetic posts what you are doing, when did torres and vivian harris become any better than the average world title level guys that hatton fought. Yeah vivain harris became a top level opponent when witter beat him :rofl:rofl

[Utter1]

GOT BUNDLES of time for Froch and Haye. They dont pick and choose there opponents. There not aloof and dont carry themselves above the sport. The only British fighters iv never liked are the 3 you mention. I watched Hatton and Joe wrapped in cotton wool for years at SN. And LL never endeared himself to no one and was a classic right time right place guy. I will not and refuse to reward medicority with a stamp of approval. Guys like Haye and Froch went out of there way to put it on the line and fight for what they wanted. Thats exactly what Lloyd Honeyghan did. Joe and Hatton have had it all handed to them on a plate. Thats not a fair shake considering the career of there British peers.


I agree on Scura about Hatton and Calzaghe..........but Lennox Lewis for me one of the greatest heavies ever......head to head and resume.

Sculra in terms of modern day heavies lets say starting from Sonny Liston to now who do you rank as the best head to head?

[Utter1]

You guys need to actually listen to what he says.

Im not being extreme when i say he was a bum nor will i be extreme and say he was an All time great.

He was a great british fighter, and will deffo be a top 50 fighter in history for the light-welterweight division.

Thats nothing to snooze at.

But in terms of international world greats then he falls short by some margin.

Yes he lost to two prime fighters in Pac and Mayweather but the ease in which both dispelled him was enough to ******t the glee coming from Scurla. Pac never went out of 1st gear and Mayweather never out of 2nd gear.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Hatton fought certain guys at the right time and should have fought witter who very much resembled Maccarnelli to Haye.

If you look at Haye carrer.........he fought for and defended the European belt in which you cannot have a say in who you fight, he went AWAY from home to the champion backyard and knocked Mormeck out. Beat a rival who was a top 5 operator in the division at that time to take home 3 of the 4 significant belts.

Beat a prepared Monte Barret quicker than Vlad, or Valuev did.

And now will go to face a prime Vladimir Klit in his adopted home land.

In terms of legends........Haye is taking risks that Hatton or Calzaghe never took. Dec 02 to June 09 arounds 6 yrs as a pro.....Hatton has been a pro for 12 years and Calzaghe was a pro for 14 years.

[rydersonthestorm]

Losing to elite fighters like Mayweather and Pac doesn't take away from the fact that he achieved a lot in his career and can look back on it with pride. It could and probably has been said, that Ricky Hatton overachieved as a boxer. Full credit to him.

I agree that he should have boxed Witter when the fight made perfect sense but bringing up Vivian Harris et al merely suggests certain posters are blinded by hatred.

Pac destroyed Hatton in a manner I never expected. Hatton looked poor but Ricky, like I said, achieved a great deal in his career so smarmy know-it-alls do absolutely nothing to make a case for their clearly biased hatred.

BTW, I was never a big Hatton fan - just felt the need to add my opinion on what I have been reading in this thread.
Yeah the world class harris that got beaten by maussa two years before whitter beat him, funny that i am quite sure hatton koed maussa.

[rydersonthestorm]

You guys need to actually listen to what he says.

Im not being extreme when i say he was a bum nor will i be extreme and say he was an All time great.

He was a great british fighter, and will deffo be a top 50 fighter in history for the light-welterweight division.

Thats nothing to snooze at.

But in terms of international world greats then he falls short by some margin.

Yes he lost to two prime fighters in Pac and Mayweather but the ease in which both dispelled him was enough to ******t the glee coming from Scurla. Pac never went out of 1st gear and Mayweather never out of 2nd gear.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Hatton fought certain guys at the right time and should have fought witter who very much resembled Maccarnelli to Haye.

If you look at Haye carrer.........he fought for and defended the European belt in which you cannot have a say in who you fight, he went AWAY from home to the champion backyard and knocked Mormeck out. Beat a rival who was a top 5 operator in the division at that time to take home 3 of the 4 significant belts.

Beat a prepared Monte Barret quicker than Vlad, or Valuev did.

And now will go to face a prime Vladimir Klit in his adopted home land.

In terms of legends........Haye is taking risks that Hatton or Calzaghe never took. Dec 02 to June 09 arounds 6 yrs as a pro.....Hatton has been a pro for 12 years and Calzaghe was a pro for 14 years.
I am a big haye fan but mormeck was old and was'nt exactly unbeatable, enzo mac has been showed up to be fairly average and beating monte barrett doesn't prove shit.

[JonOli]

Hatton was the underdog against both Floyd and pAC- nobody was fooled as to how good he was.

[sinner78]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.


Hatton is probably done ,so your mission in life just ended.
What are you going to whinge about now?

Scottish sports pretty much revolves around hoping someone else loses rather then celebrating wins of their own sports.
Football ,boxing or whatever....
As soon as Hatton confirms he is done you will probably implode.:deal

[Guy]

Hatton is probably done ,so your mission in life just ended.
What are you going to whinge about now?

Scottish sports pretty much revolves around hoping someone else loses rather then celebrating wins of their own sports.
Football ,boxing or whatever....
As soon as Hatton confirms he is done you will probably implode.:deal

The Truth :deal

[scurlaruntings]

I agree on Scura about Hatton and Calzaghe..........but Lennox Lewis for me one of the greatest heavies ever......head to head and resume.

Sculra in terms of modern day heavies lets say starting from Sonny Liston to now who do you rank as the best head to head?Lennox's resume is an odd one for me. The victories when they mattered most against the big names never happened. He caught Tyson and Holy both on the slippery slope of there careers. H never disposed of Ruiz which would have brought clarity to the heavyweight division and would have prevented the awful mess than ensued with the Holy Ruiz trilogy. He also refused to face byrd. Although these guys were not legtimate threats i would have preferred if LL had faced them and stamped his authority all over the division. When he finally did face a live body in the twilight of his career he won the bout on a technical decision because Vitali's face was cut to ribbons. Vitali was actually up on the score cards in that bout. LL promised a rematched. he instead reneged on that and chose to retire.

As many questions as he answered he left alot unanswered and alot to be desired. LL should NOT have been KO'ed by Rahman and the same is true of McCall. Great ATG heavies dont loose by one punch KO's to journeymen. We saw what a focused LL can do in the Rahman LL rematch. That was the LL i wanted to see night in night out. Not the boring LL that put on a boring show vs David Tua.

As for modern heavies the only ones iv ever seen that were truly great were Ali and Tyson. No one else was close.

[rydersonthestorm]

Lennox's resume is an odd one for me. The victories when they mattered most against the big names never happened. He caught Tyson and Holy both on the slippery slope of there careers. H never disposed of Ruiz which would have brought clarity to the heavyweight division and would have prevented the awful mess than ensued with the Holy Ruiz trilogy. He also refused to face byrd. Although these guys were not legtimate threats i would have preferred if LL had faced them and stamped his authority all over the division. When he finally did face a live body in the twilight of his career he won the bout on a technical decision because Vitali's face was cut to ribbons. Vitali was actually up on the score cards in that bout. LL promised a rematched. he instead reneged on that and chose to retire.

As many questions as he answered he left alot unanswered and alot to be desired. LL should NOT have been KO'ed by Rahman and the same is true of McCall. Great ATG heavies dont loose by one punch KO's to journeymen. We saw what a focused LL can do in the Rahman LL rematch. That was the LL i wanted to see night in night out. Not the boring LL that put on a boring show vs David Tua.

As for modern heavies the only ones iv ever seen that were truly great were Ali and Tyson. No one else was close.
So tyson who beat no great prime fighters lost to numerous other guys is great, your chatting some real shit here.:verysad

[Utter1]

I am a big haye fan but mormeck was old and was'nt exactly unbeatable, enzo mac has been showed up to be fairly average and beating monte barrett doesn't prove shit.


One must look at the way it was done, time of the moment and what the fighter was considered by most boxing experts.

Of course Mormeck was a little past it and Macca has been shown to be less than stellar.

Macca fell into the same type of cotton wool routine that Hatton and Calazaghe have been in but he was found wanting alot sooner.

BUT - Haye went to fight what WAS considered the BEST fighter in the CRUISERWEIGHT division, not only that he went to Paris, France ( Mand Utd only getting one chance at Barca but having to play at the Nou Camp metaphor) and knocked him out.

Then fought a fighter many said was better than him and a domestic and division rival...........he proved without doubt he was the best in that divison.......he could have rested on his merits and stayed there but instead fought a top 25 fighter in Monte Barrett......who has been around for the last 10 years fighting the division who whos either winning or losing.

Bar the freak loss to that Journeyman who escapes my mind.......when monte was prepared and knew that his opponent was top notch he trained and is/was a dangerous operator.

Wlad knocked him out in 7, Valuev in 11, Rahamn decisioned him, as did Messi who was in a way exposed that fight.

He is now fighting the best heavy in the world in his 3rd heavyweight outing.quicker than Holyfield rise to the heavyweight campaign and against a far better fighter than the unfit undermotivated Douglas that Holy faced.

Could Haye get brutally ko'd?? Of course.........but the man is a legend period.......put it all on the line each and every time.

If he wins..........he will trump Hatton and Calazaghe and do it in half the time.

[rydersonthestorm]

One must look at the way it was done, time of the moment and what the fighter was considered by most boxing experts.

Of course Mormeck was a little past it and Macca has been shown to be less than stellar.

Macca fell into the same type of cotton wool routine that Hatton and Calazaghe have been in but he was found wanting alot sooner.

BUT - Haye went to fight what WAS considered the BEST fighter in the CRUISERWEIGHT division, not only that he went to Paris, France ( Mand Utd only getting one chance at Barca but having to play at the Nou Camp metaphor) and knocked him out.

Then fought a fighter many said was better than him and a domestic and division rival...........he proved without doubt he was the best in that divison.......he could have rested on his merits and stayed there but instead fought a top 25 fighter in Monte Barrett......who has been around for the last 10 years fighting the division who whos either winning or losing.

Bar the freak loss to that Journeyman who escapes my mind.......when monte was prepared and knew that his opponent was top notch he trained and is/was a dangerous operator.

Wlad knocked him out in 7, Valuev in 11, Rahamn decisioned him, as did Messi who was in a way exposed that fight.

He is now fighting the best heavy in the world in his 3rd heavyweight outing.quicker than Holyfield rise to the heavyweight campaign and against a far better fighter than the unfit undermotivated Douglas that Holy faced.

Could Haye get brutally ko'd?? Of course.........but the man is a legend period.......put it all on the line each and every time.

If he wins..........he will trump Hatton and Calazaghe and do it in half the time.
My point is its easy to makeanyone look shit if you are willing to make the right points.
Your point about haye/holyfield are not really valid haye is fighting wlad because the divsion is rubbish, holyfield would have had a title fight in this time if the division was as weak in his day.
Also wlad maybe the number 1 heavyweight but he is not half the fighter floyd or manny are, beating lwad isn't anywhere near the same level of win as a hatton win over either of them two would have been.

[Metal Man]

exactly what he said, if hatton was as good as everyone was saying he would of had a lot more ease moving to 147 and performing, billy graham always said he never wanted hatton to fight at 147, why not?? if he is a s good as what i hear the fighter should be able to adapt

can someone name one fighter on the p4p list who couldnt move up in weight and perform, hattons whole career was based on the KT win, since then his most notable win was castillo who was ruined since the first corrales fight, and we all know collazo won the fight that night against hatton

as far as im concerned now hatton is finished and should retire as he wouldnt even beat kotelnik at the moment, i was always a strong believer that bradley would of beaten hatton and i know im right

Dont agree with that and why all the Hatton hate in this thread.Fact is he dominated his weight class which makes him an undisputed international class fighter.Theirs a number of factors which prevents Hatton stepping up in weight.

1 He never possessed the weapons like speed,power or other boxing intangibles that would be his equaliser when facing bigger stronger opponents.Pac,Mosely,Mayweather and Calzaghe all have tools at their disposal that Hatton just dosnt possess.I would fancy Cal to beat alot of Cruiserweights.

2 He dosnt have the size to make that step.His height and reach would be too much of a shortcoming against the big welters and he would simply be destroyed.Its common for Middles to step up to super middle but theirs a chasm between j welter and welter though its the same weight class difference.

[Utter1]

i didnt get the point of ur post? What are you trying to say? So you dont agree that hatton is a great british fighter but falls short of the all-time greats internationally?

[Raider Rudy]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.
I like Ricky Hatton, but this thread is right on target!:good

[9Ball]

Hatton will always have people like Scurla trying to undermine him purely and simply because they are jealous. They don't like him because he is very very popular. Something they only dream about.

The facts about Ricky's career are this.

He won several world titles at two weight divisions.
Dominated his LWW division for years.
Was only beaten twice and both defeats came against true ATG fighters.

The only thing I could think as negative is that he never gave Witter a shot. I believe he would have beaten Witter with ease so it doesn't make much sense. It gave people like Scurla and Healy something to rant on about.

British boxing WILL miss Ricky when he retires (which I hope is now).
Of the true knowleagable British boxing fans, only deluded hate filled nobheads will not miss him.

Thanks for the great fights and grats on a brilliant career Ricky :good

[gooners!!]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.


Hatton never fooled me, but by the same token being a B class fighter is not that bad. In my estimation it generally means very good but short of great/elite. If he were C class then that would be derogatory.

I never brought the lame excuse about fighting at 147. He kept taking fights there so......

You cant say your not 147 when you lose and then say you are going back up there when the money is on the table.

There is no way you can say he had a glass jaw in his prime though. Thaxton,Tszyu,Phillips etc. They might have been past their best but they were all big punchers and whether Hatton did get hurt against any of them he did not get KTFO, which says he did not have a glass chin imo.

I truly believe Hatton would of been KTFO, if he had fought Tszyu with a proper referee, but at the end of the day you are being waay too harsh in your criticisms ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) of him.

He was a good fighters nothing more nothing less.

[Sheikh]

Hatton was good, but he was very overrated. He was never world class. Look at his fight with Louie Colloazo and Lazcano. But he still did beat some decent fighters, he was never on the level of Pac, PBF, De la Hoya, Mosley, etc.

[BremnerBomber]

So tyson who beat no great prime fighters lost to numerous other guys is great, your chatting some real shit here.:verysad


I think Scurlaruntings just hates anything British

[BremnerBomber]

Lennox's resume is an odd one for me. The victories when they mattered most against the big names never happened. He caught Tyson and Holy both on the slippery slope of there careers. H never disposed of Ruiz which would have brought clarity to the heavyweight division and would have prevented the awful mess than ensued with the Holy Ruiz trilogy. He also refused to face byrd. Although these guys were not legtimate threats i would have preferred if LL had faced them and stamped his authority all over the division. When he finally did face a live body in the twilight of his career he won the bout on a technical decision because Vitali's face was cut to ribbons. Vitali was actually up on the score cards in that bout. LL promised a rematched. he instead reneged on that and chose to retire.

As many questions as he answered he left alot unanswered and alot to be desired. LL should NOT have been KO'ed by Rahman and the same is true of McCall. Great ATG heavies dont loose by one punch KO's to journeymen. We saw what a focused LL can do in the Rahman LL rematch. That was the LL i wanted to see night in night out. Not the boring LL that put on a boring show vs David Tua.

As for modern heavies the only ones iv ever seen that were truly great were Ali and Tyson. No one else was close.


So Lennox isn't great because he never beat a prime ATG and lost to Mcall and Rahman (avenged both) yet Tyson who beat nobody and lost to Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis, Williams, McBride is Great :rofl

[JonOli]

I don't like the way people appear to have given Oscar a total pass for getting totally humiliated by pac. Oscar was a red hot favourite to win that fight and was made to quit on his stool. Those are the facts. We can argue all day about weights etc...

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[combo slice]

Hatton just used his huge popularity and the $$$ that generated to bypass the prime world class opposition and go straight to the elite level fighters. He knew there would be no shame in losing to the p4p kings and his reputation would remain intact in the eyes of his deluded fans.

[IrnBruMan]

Hatton was lineal champion for 4 years, beat a very decent level of oppostion and came up short when he took fights against the very best in the world.

What a shit career eh?

Look at who he defended his lineal title against in those 4 years:

Maussa
Urango
Castillo
Lazcano
Malignaggi

That's just over 1 defence of his 140 title per year against pretty ordinary or well past it opposition.

The only big name in there is Castillo, and he was way past his best.

The 2 times he moved up to 147 he looked bad (Collazo) and got KO'd (PBF).

Now he's been found out at 140 by a smaller man who he thought he'd be able to walk through and bully into submission.

Fairytale's over guys.

[JonOli]

Irn-Bru made in Scotland from girders.

[GazOC]

Look at who he defended his lineal title against in those 4 years:

Maussa
Urango
Castillo
Lazcano
Malignaggi

That's just over 1 defence of his 140 title per year against pretty ordinary or well past it opposition.

The only big name in there is Castillo, and he was way past his best.

The 2 times he moved up to 147 he looked bad (Collazo) and got KO'd (PBF).

Now he's been found out at 140 by a smaller man who he thought he'd be able to walk through and bully into submission.

Fairytale's over guys.

I've gone over this ad nauseum but Maussa, Urango and Paulie were all belts holders. Not top A grade fighters but good defences for a champion to have made.

Hattons time at 140 was a solid enough reign against decent enough opponents and will be seen as such when the boxing history books are written by people who know the sport and can see the big picture with regards what constitutes a good, but not great, champion.

[IrnBruMan]

I've gone over this ad nauseum but Maussa, Urango and Paulie were all belts holders. Not top A grade fighters but good defences for a champion to have made.

Hattons time at 140 was a solid enough reign against decent enough opponents and will be seen as such when the boxing history books are written by people who know the sport and can see the big picture with regards what constitutes a good, but not great, champion.

I agree with what you say - he was a good champ, not great - but you brought up his reign as lineal 140 champ as if it was exceptional, which I don't believe it was due to his opposition.

I don't believe he will go down as an ATG at 140.

[IrnBruMan]

Irn-Bru made in Scotland from girders.

...fae the Forth Road Bridge

[GazOC]

I agree with what you say - he was a good champ, not great - but you brought up his reign as lineal 140 champ as if it was exceptional, which I don't believe it was due to his opposition.

I don't believe he will go down as an ATG at 140.

I don't want to get into nitpicking but what in my post made you think I regarded him winning the lineal title as exceptional? All I said was that he'd won the title, defended it 5 times over 4 years and thats a very good career IMHO.

(No arguement about him being a ATG at 140)

[IrnBruMan]

I don't want to get into nitpicking but what in my post made you think I regarded him winning the lineal title as exceptional? All I said was that he'd won the title, defended it 5 times over 4 years and that is no mean feat.

Just your refernece to him holding the lineal title at 140, that's all.

Let's not nitpick, I juist responded to your post because that's the way I saw it.

[GazOC]

Just your refernece to him holding the lineal title at 140, that's all.

Let's not nitpick, I juist responded to your post because that's the way I saw it.

Fine mate, but how can you say not to nickpick when I said not to nickpick first? Your nickpicking of of my post asking not to nickpick is just plain nitpicking.:p

[mattress]

I think Scurlaruntings just hates anything British

is he a ****stani?

[IrnBruMan]

Fine mate, but how can you say not to nickpick when I said not to nickpick first? Your nickpicking of of my post asking not to nickpick is just plain nitpicking.:p

Stop it, before we progress to hairsplitting :lol: :good

[IrnBruMan]

is he a ****stani?

:rofl

[TFFP]

Being an 'ATG' at 140 is not an amazing achievement anyway if you take a look back through its history.

It's borderline as to whether Hatton is a great 140lb'er.

[GazOC]

Being an 'ATG' at 140 is not an amazing achievement anyway if you take a look back through its history.

It's borderline as to whether Hatton is a great 140lb'er.

Thats true, its historically a poor division where a lot of the great fighters either only fought there for a short time or just skipped completely.

Hattons had a decent reign but he's second tier behind the very best of that division like Zoo and Pryor.

[scurlaruntings]

Being an 'ATG' at 140 is not an amazing achievement anyway if you take a look back through its history.

It's borderline as to whether Hatton is a great 140lb'er.
He's not. End of story thread closed.

[Axl_Nose]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.

Thats a ridiculous post, i love the guys on here who sit at a computer and rip people apart having never boxed at any serious level and not knowing the physical and psychological strength you have to have to be a top fighter ..
Forum posters can rip apart and often do any fighters career from the safety of they're computer..

Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe were both terrific fighters with question marks over they're ability to fight 'Top Line' richly talented fighters .. Hatton was beaten by 2 modern day legends .. Calzaghe never fought any top fighter at the peak of they're powers, Calzaghe never had to fight the equivalent of Floyd or Pac . They were both very good fighters who have given great nights entertainment and for a nobody like you to come on here and post that Ricky Hatton is a manufactured bum is a disgrace from a so called boxing fan, Hatton isnt the bum, the only bum around here is you, hiding behind your computer screen !!

[GazOC]

Do the maths.

[Axl_Nose]

Being an 'ATG' at 140 is not an amazing achievement anyway if you take a look back through its history.

It's borderline as to whether Hatton is a great 140lb'er.

Great post TFFP, theres only Pryor and Chavez in modern times that deserve a mention .. Tzsyu was class but not in those guys league, ive got the fight were Vince Phillips takes him apart and thats a brutal beating .. Vince was a talented dangerous fighter back then

[nutter]

Me, Scurla and a couple of others were right all along on this one.

No home cooking to help here, no bent ref, no near-retired old men to fight. He even tried his dirty tactics in the second round.

No excuses.....Wicky was just never as good as most of you thought. He didn't struggle with the mediocre Collazo because of size or flu. He didn't get beat by Mayweather because of the ref. Hatton has always been a B level fighter at best with a glass jaw and a seriously manufactured career....and all the excuses in the world surely cannot fool anybody any more...even the most deluded of Hatton huggers.

Will be interesting to see if this knocks some humility as well as sense into Wicky.
Get a life cockhead

[dwilson]

Hatton is hilariously shit at top level. Hopefully he fights Cotto now.

[scurlaruntings]

Hatton is hilariously shit at top level. Hopefully he fights Cotto now.Id pay handsomely to see that. Fuck it he doesnt even need to face marquee names in the sport. Just face some of the 2nd stringers at 140 like Torres Holt Bradley Berto Witter and i assure you Hatton will either get KO'ed or look awful in the process. The man has been picking and choosing his opposition for years and then trys to make a massive leap in class from guys like Paulie/Lazcano to Pac? This is what happens when your top of the pile and market yourself as such. Eventually you have to fight someone with a pulse. It was only a matter of time before he got found out. Both times he was completely humiliated.

[ApatheticLeader]

*sigh*

Come on, I'm no Hatton fan, but this disparaging of his whole career is over the fucking top.

[destruction]

I have to admit, I was never a Hatton fan because of the WBUllshite days. I also never rated him, because he has always just be a crude brawler who was destined to be found out against the elite at the elite level.
I dont really take any satisfaction in seeing him humiliated like he has been against Mayweather and now Pacman, as he still has millions of pounds in the bank thanks to the "fans".

[scurlaruntings]

Yeah that's right Hatton has always been useless hasn't he?

:roll:Iv never insuated that. Im merely pointing out the obvious which most have chosen to ignore. There was a massive hype train behind Hatton which was completely unfounded. He's NOT one of the best fighters in the world. He's NOT P4P material. He didnt rule 140 with an iron fist and defeat the BEST contenders at his weight. He's NOT a 6 time world champ. And yet the entirety of his career was shrewdly marketed on this hollow premise. And thousands of his fans lapped it up. Is that not concerning?

[Utter1]

Iv never insuated that. Im merely pointing out the obvious which most have chosen to ignore. There was a massive hype train behind Hatton which was completely unfounded. He's NOT one of the best fighters in the world. He's NOT P4P material. He didnt rule 140 with an iron fist and defeat the BEST contenders at his weight. He's NOT a 6 time world champ. And yet the entirety of his career was shrewdly marketed on this hollow premise. And thousands of his fans lapped it up. Is that not concerning?


Bang on target............I dont think Scurla is dismissing him as a good fighter which is/was but what he is disputing is the fact that the british media and ******/ hatton family have marketed him really well.......in the sense that they .to convince the public that he is an all time great and go on about him being a 2 weight champion and 6 times this or that.

A poster said that he chose his opponents and then hype up a fight with the very best as it made alot of sense. If he loses then he loses to the very best and get richly rewarded AND at the same time skipping tougher. better but less financially rewardings fights.

He will go on on.....trust me.........and fight someone handpicked who either dosent hit hard/ has a soft chin or is a name and well past it.

He wont fight Bradley, holt, Witter etc.

Then they will tell us all he is on the comeback with a new trainer........and a big british fight against Amir Kahn will happen unless either of them get exposed again.

[scurlaruntings]

The British media have always gone way overboard where Ricky Hatton is concerned and to a certain extent his career has been stage managed, if you like, but losing to fighters of the calibre of Mayweather and Pac is no disgrace in itself.

Yeah, Hatton boxed extremely badly. Wide open and crude - he could get away with it against a lot of fighters but was always waiting to be exposed by the very elite.

I've always been disappointed that he never boxed Witter but where I do hand credit to him is the fact that he actually went out and took on the two best fighters in the world. Joe Calzaghe, a fighter I despise, is heralded as a ring legend on these shores by the British media but he never had the balls to take on the elite in his entire career.

Hatton was handsomely rewarded for those defeats and he made a lot of money. Yes, he overachieved considering his limited style but I'm not laughing at his demise because I respect him for at least facing such exceptional fighters. His fans, well the majority are just footy fans anyway and they must have enjoyed the ride at the end of the day.Taking on the BEST fighters in the world when a massive pay day is at stake doesnt deserve credit in my eyes in the slightest. Thats merely doing whats best for yourself. Those fights happened because of the huge amount of money to be made. Hatton made in one fight what some boxers dont make in a lifetime. Equally whilst loosing to Pac and PBF is not a disgrace the manner of his losses were. It wasnt even close and was akin to a father beating his child.

As said already popularity is not a prerequisite for greatness and Hatton simply didnt have those skills before and certainly doesnt have them now. His whole premise was based on smoke and mirrors and when all is said and done, although he achieved wealth in this sport, he never did it justice because he chose WHO to fight and WHEN to fight them.

Dont get it twisted i do not wish malice on the boy but i will ALWAYS call a fraud when i see it. It was plain as light is day his career was a sham from the early WBU days. The chickens came home to roost. Hatton knows that now.

[rydersonthestorm]

Taking on the BEST fighters in the world when a massive pay day is at stake doesnt deserve credit in my eyes in the slightest. Thats merely doing whats best for yourself. Those fights happened because of the huge amount of money to be made. Hatton made in one fight what some boxers dont make in a lifetime. Equally whilst loosing to Pac and PBF is not a disgrace the manner of his losses were. It wasnt even close and was akin to a father beating his child.

As said already popularity is not a prerequisite for greatness and Hatton simply didnt have those skills before and certainly doesnt have them now. His whole premise was based on smoke and mirrors and when all is said and done, although he achieved wealth in this sport, he never did it justice because he chose WHO to fight and WHEN to fight them.

Dont get it twisted i do not wish malice on the boy but i will ALWAYS call a fraud when i see it. It was plain as light is day his career was a sham from the early WBU days. The chickens came home to roost. Hatton knows that now.
Is witter more of a sham he lost to far worse fighters than hatton and one of his best wins was harris who got beaten by maussa 2 years before witter faced him.

[scurlaruntings]

Is witter more of a sham he lost to far worse fighters than hatton and one of his best wins was harris who got beaten by maussa 2 years before witter faced him.Did Witter have the media and a freight train of hype behind him? Was his career wrapped in cotton wool by FW and SN? Was he given silver spoon treatment by FW? Did he not face the unbeaten IBF champ Judah in his 19th or so bout? Has he not been a triple domestic champ despite being promoted by an average promotion with no economic clout and firmly established himself on the world scene as a legit contender facing ALL comers put in front of him and NOT avoiding dangerous opposition? Which part of his career was a pretense YOU TELL ME! Fucking noobs. You clowns have been watching this sport since yesterday and glibbly ignore the FACTS.

[BremnerBomber]

Did Witter have the media and a freight train of hype behind him? Was his career wrapped in cotton wool by FW and SN? Was he given silver spoon treatment by FW? Did he not face the unbeaten IBF champ Judah in his 19th or so bout? Has he not been a triple domestic champ despite being promoted by an average promotion with no economic clout and firmly established himself on the world scene as a legit contender facing ALL comers put in front of him and NOT avoiding dangerous opposition? Which part of his career was a pretense YOU TELL ME! Fucking noobs. You clowns have been watching this sport since yesterday and glibbly ignore the FACTS.


Your Hypocrisy is laughable

[Guy]

Someone give Scurla his medication...he's been on shitting on Hatton for two days solid now.

[scurlaruntings]

Your Hypocrisy is laughableYou dont even understand the meaning of the word Hypocrisy. :roll: DISPUTE ANYTHING I HAVE SAID if my words are hypocritical.

[dan-b]

Your Hypocrisy is laughable

What has he said that's hypocritical? Break it down for us.

Someone give Scurla his medication...he's been on shitting on Hatton for two days solid now.

He's not 'shitting on Hatton', he's telling it the way it is. What has he said that you vehemently and vociferously disagree with?

[scurlaruntings]

What has he said that's hypocritical? Break it down for us.



He's not 'shitting on Hatton', he's telling it the way it is. What has he said that you vehemently and vociferously disagree with?This is my point with these idiots. Not one of them can even counter what iv said as all of spoken is the truth and what has ACTUALLY occured over the span of their careers.

[BremnerBomber]

Well apart from your post yesterday about Tyson being an ATG yet Lewis ins't

You also do not give Hatton any sort of credit for fighting the best (PBF & Manny) because he got paid...... Yet you give loads of credit to Witter when he faced Judah !! WHY do you think Witter took that fight.... probably something to do with the money.

I'm not going to argue that his WBU days were anything more than average but he did end up stepping up and had a good career beating some good names and a few belts along the way.

[dan-b]

Well apart from your post yesterday about Tyson being an ATG yet Lewis ins't

You also do not give Hatton any sort of credit for fighting the best (PBF & Manny) because he got paid...... Yet you give loads of credit to Witter when he faced Judah !! WHY do you think Witter took that fight.... probably something to do with the money.

I'm not going to argue that his WBU days were anything more than average but he did end up stepping up and had a good career beating some good names and a few belts along the way.

That's a separate argument and I definitely don't agree with Scurla there. Tyson was sensational but didn't really have the longevity to be called great.

My main bone of contention with Hatton is the Witter thing. He said himself he would fight him and even, supposedly, had it written into his contract yet he never faced him and came out with a host of spurious reasons for not doing so.

[scurlaruntings]

Well apart from your post yesterday about Tyson being an ATG yet Lewis ins't

You also do not give Hatton any sort of credit for fighting the best (PBF & Manny) because he got paid...... Yet you give loads of credit to Witter when he faced Judah !! WHY do you think Witter took that fight.... probably something to do with the money.

I'm not going to argue that his WBU days were anything more than average but he did end up stepping up and had a good career beating some good names and a few belts along the way.Learn to fucking read. I NEVER said LL wasnt an ATG. I questioned his career against the greats of his day. And why does Hatton deserve credit for facing PBF and Pac when a CAREER PAYDAY was at stake? Hatton has had economic clout BECAUSE OF THE WAY ****** PROMOTED HIM. Are you not aware of that? Do you think its by chance the boy made so much money at the M.E.N beating up tin cans?

Conversely you actually believe Witter who took the bout on short notice to save the main headline took that for a payday? So he takes that for a payday and FW ditches him afterwards? Seriously get a clue already.

[BremnerBomber]

That's a separate argument and I definitely don't agree with Scurla there. Tyson was sensational but didn't really have the longevity to be called great.

My main bone of contention with Hatton is the Witter thing. He said himself he would fight him and even, supposedly, had it written into his contract yet he never faced him and came out with a host of spurious reasons for not doing so.


Honestly I like Witter being a fellow yorkshireman but his fans only seem to be Hatton haters.... who use his name to knock Ricky.

Apart from being both British was any massive reason they should have fought.

While Hatton was heading the bill in Las Vegas chasing a PBF fight. Witter was figting in the Doncaster dome

[faisal]

the only reason why ppl support hatton is because there able to identify with him more hes done allot of work on his boy next door image so many ppl see him as 1 of the lads i cant see any other reason to support him his boxing skills are quite premitive, hes a good fighter but not elite,

[dan-b]

Honestly I like Witter being a fellow yorkshireman but his fans only seem to be Hatton haters.... who use his name to knock Ricky.

Apart from being both British was any massive reason they should have fought.

While Hatton was heading the bill in Las Vegas chasing a PBF fight. Witter was figting in the Doncaster dome

No no their rivalry goes back way before Hatton was headlining bills in Las Vegas. There's plenty of video evidence to prove this as well but I've had this discussion so many times I really can't be bothered anymore.

[scurlaruntings]

Honestly I like Witter being a fellow yorkshireman but his fans only seem to be Hatton haters.... who use his name to knock Ricky.

Apart from being both British was any massive reason they should have fought.

While Hatton was heading the bill in Las Vegas chasing a PBF fight. Witter was figting in the Doncaster domeSerious question. How old are you and how long have you been watching boxing? :think

[BremnerBomber]

Honestly I don't really care about the Witter v Hatton argument anyway.... so I'm not going to spend anymore time on it as I like both fighters.

He desevers better than a load of Hatton haters using his name to knock Ricky

[zfc]

Did Witter have the media and a freight train of hype behind him? Was his career wrapped in cotton wool by FW and SN? Was he given silver spoon treatment by FW? Did he not face the unbeaten IBF champ Judah in his 19th or so bout? Has he not been a triple domestic champ despite being promoted by an average promotion with no economic clout and firmly established himself on the world scene as a legit contender facing ALL comers put in front of him and NOT avoiding dangerous opposition? Which part of his career was a pretense YOU TELL ME! Fucking noobs. You clowns have been watching this sport since yesterday and glibbly ignore the FACTS.

You are bang on the money here mate,I have always been a Ricky Hatton fan I have watched him numerous times and travelled to Vegas to see his fight with Mayweather. I liked him because he is an entertaining fighter but I gave up on him being a great the day he was outclassed and smashed all over the ring by Collazo for 7 rounds and ended up getting a shocking disgraceful unaminous decision.

I have no doubt that Witter would have beaten Hatton no matter what year the fight would have taken place.Witter was too damn dangerous and too strong with either hand for Frank ****** and team Hattons liking.

Hattons contempt for Witter was disgraceful and he used the excuse that he didn`t want Witter to have a big pay day for not fighting him.

If Mayweather and Pacquiao had the same attitude Ricky wouldn`t have got to fight the big fights.Hatton got the big fights because he is big office on SKY and has a massive following of muppets who sing theres only one Ricky Hatton and pack the venues Ricky fights at.

[JonOli]

Hatton was a clear betting outsider against pac and he lost the fight. There is very little to gloat about in picking pac - he was widley expected to win.

[scurlaruntings]

You are bang on the money here mate,I have always been a Ricky Hatton fan I have watched him numerous times and travelled to Vegas to see his fight with Mayweather. I liked him because he is an entertaining fighter but I gave up on him being a great the day he was outclassed and smashed all over the ring by Collazo for 7 rounds and ended up getting a shocking disgraceful unaminous decision.

I have no doubt that Witter would have beaten Hatton no matter what year the fight would have taken place.Witter was too damn dangerous and too strong with either hand for Frank ****** and team Hattons liking.

Hattons contempt for Witter was disgraceful and he used the excuse that he didn`t want Witter to have a big pay day for not fighting him.

If Mayweather and Pacquiao had the same attitude Ricky wouldn`t have got to fight the big fights.Hatton got the big fights because he is big office on SKY and has a massive following of muppets who sing theres only one Ricky Hatton and pack the venues Ricky fights at.
This is what annoys me. Ricky has been playing the "ordinary lad" trumpet for years now. Kostya did not need to fight him. Neither did Pac or PBF. He wasnt a mandatory for neither men and both men fought outside his division. Both times Ricky chose the smaller men and his premise was the same.. Il just bully them! Worked against ****** Rowsell!!! Why not Cotto? SSM? Marg? Cintron? Williams? The guy is sooo fabled for his strength (according to his fans)and yet couldnt make the march 7lbs north to beat a no namer like Collazo but Pac can rise from 106lbs to 147 and decimate DLH??!?! Seriously Hatton fans are a bad bad joke.

And yet Kostya gave him that chance but Ricky wouldnt return the favor? After a decade of malice between them Britains biggest domestic bout since Eubank Benn doesnt get made because Witter called Hatton names?

Ricky wasnt stupid. Neither was Frank. They both knew the result. His fans didnt.

[zfc]

JonOli..........

You obviously never saw the build up on SKY or read the papers.Hatton was expected to beat Pacquiao because he was too big and too strong.All the muppets on SKY picked Hatton to win bar the great Colin Hart who has forgotten more about boxing than Adam Smith,Mcrory and that idiot Piper will ever know.

25,000 Brits went to Vegas believing Hatton would win as they were taken in by the bullshit and the hype that has surrounded Ricky Hatton for years.Look at all the forums and the majority of Brits were picking Hatton to win based on bullshit and hype.

[scurlaruntings]

You obviously never saw the build up on SKY or read the papers.Hatton was expected to beat Pacquiao because he was too big and too strong.All the muppets on SKY picked Hatton to win bar the great Colin Hart who has forgotten more about boxing than Adam Smith,Mcrory and that idiot Piper will ever know.

25,000 Brits went to Vegas believing Hatton would win as they were taken in by the bullshit and the hype that has surrounded Ricky Hatton for years.Look at all the forums and the majority of Brits were picking Hatton to win based on bullshit and hype.You wanna hear a joke? I read the day before the fight that Joe picked Hatton to win because Hatton had a height advantage. Pac is an inch taller than Hatton. His also physically bigger than Ricky in every statistic other than his waist (surprise surprise) and his fist i think. Other than that statiscally a former flyweight was the bigger man. Iv never seen a hype train like this. Its been going on for years and all his fans fell for it hook line and sinker.

[JonOli]

JonOli..........

You obviously never saw the build up on SKY or read the papers.Hatton was expected to beat Pacquiao because he was too big and too strong.All the muppets on SKY picked Hatton to win bar the great Colin Hart who has forgotten more about boxing than Adam Smith,Mcrory and that idiot Piper will ever know.

25,000 Brits went to Vegas believing Hatton would win as they were taken in by the bullshit and the hype that has surrounded Ricky Hatton for years.Look at all the forums and the majority of Brits were picking Hatton to win based on bullshit and hype.
`

That's called promotion. Facts are facts Hatton was a fairly big outsider in the betting, Pac a very clear favourite. Even Hatton himself openly stated he was not expected to win the fight. Those are the facts. If you choose to believe everything a few self serving pundits say, then that is your business.

[rydersonthestorm]

Did Witter have the media and a freight train of hype behind him? Was his career wrapped in cotton wool by FW and SN? Was he given silver spoon treatment by FW? Did he not face the unbeaten IBF champ Judah in his 19th or so bout? Has he not been a triple domestic champ despite being promoted by an average promotion with no economic clout and firmly established himself on the world scene as a legit contender facing ALL comers put in front of him and NOT avoiding dangerous opposition? Which part of his career was a pretense YOU TELL ME! Fucking noobs. You clowns have been watching this sport since yesterday and glibbly ignore the FACTS.
your a joke when it comes to british boxing

[ron u.k.]

Have always been a fan of Ricky's,never a hugger but i like the lad and him being a Brit well you want him to do well.Like many i've always been aware of his weaknesses.Hatton was never a great fighter,never a real grade A level fighter like a Pretty Boy,Pacman or Bhop but a good fighter all the same. What happened on Saturday has been coming a while.I expected him to be stopped maybe not quite as early and as dramatic but it was pretty inevitable because he's basically not as good as a well schooled assasin like Manny,and i'm in no doubt that his lifestyle played a part in his demise,especially in terms of punch resistance,the real warning shots were there against the light hitting Lazcano.
He should get out now because when you get knocked out like that it tends to start happening more and more,i agree,the Bradley's and Holt's would take him out.
He's had a good career,he's rich beyond his wildest dreams he should get on with what he obviously now does best eat,drink and be merry.

[scurlaruntings]

your a joke when it comes to british boxingCOUNTER MY FUCKING POINT. I DONT WANT TO HEAR YOUR BULLSHIT OPINION COUNTER MY POINT. Im a staunch fan of British boxing and have been for 20 years. But i will continue to call bullshit when i see it irrespective of what you think or what you want to read on these boards.

[GazOC]

Scurla, why do you always claim everyone who disagrees with you is a noob and not a real boxing fan when in fact its you that looks like you are the one doesn't really understand (or chooses to forget where Hatton is concerned) how boxing is, and always has been, sold and promoted?

You've used that "noob" and "true boxing fan" tactic for years and its still as transparent as ever. Get a new line FFS.

[rydersonthestorm]

COUNTER MY FUCKING POINT. I DONT WANT TO HEAR YOUR BULLSHIT OPINION COUNTER MY POINT. Im a staunch fan of British boxing and have been for 20 years. But i will continue to call bullshit when i see it irrespective of what you think or what you want to read on these boards.
no you seem to just state the same things and not respond to anyone else points, i have made points about froch and numerous other things but you ignored them and keep going on about hatton fanboys. Just because i don't hate hatton like you doesn't make me a fanboy, just because i don't chat shit about junior witter doesn't make me a hatton fanboy. I don't give two shits about hatton i just find you to be a massive hypocrit and think you only see things from your very biased view.

[scurlaruntings]

Scurla, why do you always claim everyone who disagrees with you is a noob and not a real boxing fan when in fact its you that looks like you are the one doesn't really understand (or chooses to forget where Hatton is concerned) how boxing is, and always has been, sold and promoted?

You've used that "noob" and "true boxing fan" tactic for years and its still as transparent as ever. Get a new line FFS.The line will stay UNTIL nitwits like yourself learn to see the light of day. Im not lying im merely telling the truth as it played out over the last decade. Those that are privvy to the facts know this. Those who are new to the sport do not. You've been watching boxing long enough to better. Then again maybe not.

As for promotion its abundantly clear that is NOT my point. You know when Hatton held the WBU he was NOT a world champ. I know that. But SKY BBC and Hatton dont? When its been marketed that way and Hatton says it himself? How many times must i repeat this to you? So in one vein you can glibly gloss over his WBU reign but then be ok that SKY and Ricky think he's a 6 time world champ when he clearly is NOT? Rank idiocy Gazoc. Rank fucking idiocy.

[GazOC]

So just so we're clear. Anyone who disagrees with you isn't a true boxing and hasn't been watching the sport as long as you have?:lol::patsch:lol:

Who cares how those WBU fights were promoted? They're just a series of fights. Criticize the opponents by all means but the belt is irrelvant.

[dan-b]

This is getting dangerously close to being an argument about semantics. These are always fun.

[rydersonthestorm]

So its much betetr to be like froch and fight nobody for years and have hardly any fights over a career rather than take the wbu route when your younger build your name and fanbase up and have done far more by the time you reach the same age

[scurlaruntings]

This is getting dangerously close to being an argument about semantics. These are always fun.It wont be as im not interested in debating the price of fish. Gazocs point is meandering bullshit. He can keep it.

[Guy]

"Theres a big difference between collecting belts and fighting REAL WORLD CLASS TALENT."

Thats fine but he only lost against the No 1 P4P fighters in the world, not 'just' world class talent..THE BEST THERE IS!

It's the fact you are using Ricky's destruction at the hands of Manny and PBF to cast a disparaging light on his whole career, and reveling in it I find weird and disturbing.

[rydersonthestorm]

It wont be as im not interested in debating the price of fish. Gazocs point is meandering bullshit. He can keep it.
no your only intrested in your own biased view point, i think you should stick to talking about comics and wrestling.

[BremnerBomber]

This is what annoys me. Ricky has been playing the "ordinary lad" trumpet for years now. Kostya did not need to fight him. Neither did Pac or PBF. He wasnt a mandatory for neither men and both men fought outside his division. Both times Ricky chose the smaller men and his premise was the same.. Il just bully them! Worked against ****** Rowsell!!! Why not Cotto? SSM? Marg? Cintron? Williams? The guy is sooo fabled for his strength (according to his fans)and yet couldnt make the march 7lbs north to beat a no namer like Collazo but Pac can rise from 106lbs to 147 and decimate DLH??!?! Seriously Hatton fans are a bad bad joke.

And yet Kostya gave him that chance but Ricky wouldnt return the favor? After a decade of malice between them Britains biggest domestic bout since Eubank Benn doesnt get made because Witter called Hatton names?

Ricky wasnt stupid. Neither was Frank. They both knew the result. His fans didnt.



There you go again ...... why is Collazo a "no namer" ???? what has Witter done to be a bigger name or better fighter than Collazo ??

[rydersonthestorm]

There you go again ...... why is Collazo a "no namer" ???? what has Witter done to be a bigger name or better fighter than Collazo ??
nothing but scurla won't admit it because it goes against his so called 'truth'

[dan-b]

There you go again ...... why is Collazo a "no namer" ???? what has Witter done to be a bigger name or better fighter than Collazo ??

Nothing, but what's your point?

[rydersonthestorm]

Nothing, but what's your point?
his point is scurla has been saying witer is some big contender and has beaten everyone he need to, wen infact he fought shitter guys than hatton and prob lost to some of them

[scurlaruntings]

his point is scurla has been saying witer is some big contender and has beaten everyone he need to, wen infact he fought shitter guys than hatton and prob lost to some of themLearn to read. I never insinuated that. Go back and re read my post.

[dan-b]

his point is scurla has been saying witer is some big contender and has beaten everyone he need to, wen infact he fought shitter guys than hatton and prob lost to some of them

No, Scurla was saying Witter had a legitimate chance of beating Hatton and was also the number two guy in the country. Would you disagree with that? Bremner's assertion that Witter needed to do more than Collazo to get a fight with Hatton was rather flawed, hence my question.

[rydersonthestorm]

Learn to read. I never insinuated that. Go back and re read my post.
I have seen your posts about this for the last 2 years :roll:

[dan-b]

I have seen your posts about this for the last 2 years :roll:

So what are you insinuating then? That everyone needs to be a big time star before they get a shot at the number one guy? Isn't that rather elitist?

[rydersonthestorm]

No, Scurla was saying Witter had a legitimate chance of beating Hatton and was also the number two guy in the country. Would you disagree with that? Bremner's assertion that Witter needed to do more than Collazo to get a fight with Hatton was rather flawed, hence my question.
He might have beaten hatton and he was number 2 in the uk, however he fought numerous worse fighters than hatton and has never really done much in his career. Bremner was pointing out if hattons opponents where so bad why had witter not faced anyone as good as even collazo.

[rydersonthestorm]

So what are you insinuating then? That everyone needs to be a big time star before they get a shot at the number one guy? Isn't that rather elitist?
No what i am saying is if you make claims about someone fighting poor fighters and ducking guys who are 'top' of the divison those guys should have fought some decent fighters to be 'top' and not have fought even worse guys than the fighter being slagged off.

[TFFP]

And why did Hatton fight WBU cans for years and not fight his #1 domestic challenger, that was quite clearly a class fighter?

Futhermore, how did Witter manage to become the #1 ranked 140lb'er behind Ricky Hatton, without ever having fought him over such a long period?

It was blatant ducking. Call a spade a spade. I don't recall any other Brit so clearly ducking their #1 rival. Calzaghe, Froch, Eubank and Benn beforehand, Lewis and Bruno, they all did it. Hatton ducked Witter to keep his applecart on the move.

[BremnerBomber]

The line will stay UNTIL nitwits like yourself learn to see the light of day. Im not lying im merely telling the truth as it played out over the last decade. Those that are privvy to the facts know this. Those who are new to the sport do not. You've been watching boxing long enough to better. Then again maybe not.

As for promotion its abundantly clear that is NOT my point. You know when Hatton held the WBU he was NOT a world champ. I know that. But SKY BBC and Hatton dont? When its been marketed that way and Hatton says it himself? How many times must i repeat this to you? So in one vein you can glibly gloss over his WBU reign but then be ok that SKY and Ricky think he's a 6 time world champ when he clearly is NOT? Rank idiocy Gazoc. Rank fucking idiocy.


What does it matter what bullshit belt he was holding.... it was just a series of fights to build up his name and experience.... like every boxer does in his career, wheather it's the EBU,WBU,Commonwealth,Intercontinetal its doesn't fuckin matter they are all awards that serve a purpose for an up and coming fighter

[dan-b]

He might have beaten hatton and he was number 2 in the uk, however he fought numerous worse fighters than hatton and has never really done much in his career. Bremner was pointing out if hattons opponents where so bad why had witter not faced anyone as good as even collazo.

I think we're having two simultaneous debates here but I'll try my best to offer a rebuttal to the point I think you're trying to make. Witter was never afforded the opportunities Hatton was, I don't see how anyone can dispute that. ****** treated Junior pretty badly and Hatton reneged on an apparent contract clause to fight him.

Hennesey doesn't have the financial clout to create the hype train ****** did for Ricky. Look how long it took him to get Froch a big fight, it has nothing to do with him not having 'the balls' and everything to do with opportunity. Or a lack of it in this case.

[scurlaruntings]

So what are you insinuating then? That everyone needs to be a big time star before they get a shot at the number one guy? Isn't that rather elitist?He doesnt seem to understand how the rankings work. Imagine that Ricky wasnt even the divisions number 2 at the time. Harris was. Ricky who was number 3 got to fight Kostya. But Ricky wouldnt fight Witter who was the divison number 2 and instead chose Paulie who cant crack an egg and looked ridiculous in his debatable win over N'dou for the vacant IBF. Matter of fact he chose the easiest challenger in the entire division. But Paulie deserved that over Witter because of what? Lazcano, Urango deserved a bout with Hatton because of what?
WHO did they beat that made them DESERVING of a bout with Ricky. :roll:

[scurlaruntings]

And why did Hatton fight WBU cans for years and not fight his #1 domestic challenger, that was quite clearly a class fighter?

Futhermore, how did Witter manage to become the #1 ranked 140lb'er behind Ricky Hatton, without ever having fought him over such a long period?

It was blatant ducking. Call a spade a spade. I don't recall any other Brit so clearly ducking their #1 rival. Calzaghe, Froch, Eubank and Benn beforehand, Lewis and Bruno, they all did it. Hatton ducked Witter to keep his applecart on the move.And there you have it folks! :happy

[scurlaruntings]

What does it matter what bullshit belt he was holding.... it was just a series of fights to build up his name and experience.... like every boxer does in his career, wheather it's the EBU,WBU,Commonwealth,Intercontinetal its doesn't fuckin matter they are all awards that serve a purpose for an up and coming fighter:lol:O no mon fere they serve a MASSIVE purpose. Can you explain why Hatton wouldnt fight Otkay when Urkal held the more prestigious EBU? Il tell you why because Kostya went life and death with Urkal. Urkal would have outboxed Hatton with ease back then. But FW didnt want to upset the applecart.

Hatton wasnt the best in Europe. Matter of fact we didnt even know he was the best in this country. His belt was an indication of that. How can you glibbly ignore that and then conversely say he was a World Champ! He was Linear! He held the title for 4 years! But it was just a belt right? :lol:

[rydersonthestorm]

I think we're having two simultaneous debates here but I'll try my best to offer a rebuttal to the point I think you're trying to make. Witter was never afforded the opportunities Hatton was, I don't see how anyone can dispute that. ****** treated Junior pretty badly and Hatton reneged on an apparent contract clause to fight him.

Hennesey doesn't have the financial clout to create the hype train ****** did for Ricky. Look how long it took him to get Froch a big fight, it has nothing to do with him not having 'the balls' and everything to do with opportunity. Or a lack of it in this case.
Its not just the financial clout though, people are slagging off the wbu route but hatton fought alot of guys and built his fan base up, he is younger than froch and witter and has had more fights and fought far better oppostion. Why has carl froch taken till the age of 31 to have 26 fights and only beat 2 guys of any note who are still well off being true elite fighters or even top of their divsion.

[rydersonthestorm]

He doesnt seem to understand how the rankings work. Imagine that Ricky wasnt even the divisions number 2 at the time. Harris was. Ricky who was number 3 got to fight Kostya. But Ricky wouldnt fight Witter who was the divison number 2 and instead chose Paulie who cant crack an egg and looked ridiculous in his debatable win over N'dou for the vacant IBF. Matter of fact he chose the easiest challenger in the entire division. But Paulie deserved that over Witter because of what? Lazcano, Urango deserved a bout with Hatton because of what?
WHO did they beat that made them DESERVING of a bout with Ricky. :roll:
so who did witter or bradley beat then :huh

[scurlaruntings]

I think we're having two simultaneous debates here but I'll try my best to offer a rebuttal to the point I think you're trying to make. Witter was never afforded the opportunities Hatton was, I don't see how anyone can dispute that. ****** treated Junior pretty badly and Hatton reneged on an apparent contract clause to fight him.

Hennesey doesn't have the financial clout to create the hype train ****** did for Ricky. Look how long it took him to get Froch a big fight, it has nothing to do with him not having 'the balls' and everything to do with opportunity. Or a lack of it in this case.Iv yet to understand WHY this guy cannot comprehend that simple fact. They talk as though opportunity is inherently present for all fighters. If it was ALL BOXERS would be having Hattonesque $10m paydays.

[scurlaruntings]

so who did witter or bradley beat then :huhThey beat who was infront of them to get there ranking independantly and with the relavent org they were ranked with. Thats HOW THE RANKINGS WORK. Beat who's placed infront of you you move up the rankings into an eventual mandatory slot.

[BremnerBomber]

He doesnt seem to understand how the rankings work. Imagine that Ricky wasnt even the divisions number 2 at the time. Harris was. Ricky who was number 3 got to fight Kostya. But Ricky wouldnt fight Witter who was the divison number 2 and instead chose Paulie who cant crack an egg and looked ridiculous in his debatable win over N'dou for the vacant IBF. Matter of fact he chose the easiest challenger in the entire division. But Paulie deserved that over Witter because of what? Lazcano, Urango deserved a bout with Hatton because of what?
WHO did they beat that made them DESERVING of a bout with Ricky. :roll:


He chose Paulie because of HBO and the fact he was one of the longest reinging champ in the division

Also Witter hadn't fought for what 9 months do you think HBO would have accepted Hatton v Witter :think

[scurlaruntings]

Its not just the financial clout though, people are slagging off the wbu route but hatton fought alot of guys and built his fan base up, he is younger than froch and witter and has had more fights and fought far better oppostion. Why has carl froch taken till the age of 31 to have 26 fights and only beat 2 guys of any note who are still well off being true elite fighters or even top of their divsion.Froch is promoted by Hennesy. He doesnt have the luxury of SN priveliges or the WBO.He turned pro around 25 years of age or so. Why are you qouting statistics as though they have merit?

[rydersonthestorm]

They beat who was infront of them to get there ranking independantly and with the relavent org they were ranked with. Thats HOW THE RANKINGS WORK. Beat who's placed infront of you you move up the rankings into an eventual mandatory slot.
You said bradley was a top guy and ahtton ducked him i am pretty sure according to the rankins over the last 4 years bradley aint been that high and only since he beat witter has he became a contender. I am pretty sure paulie was a number 1 contender so surely hatton had to beat what was put in front of him :smooch

[rydersonthestorm]

Froch is promoted by Hennesy. He doesnt have the luxury of SN priveliges or the WBO.He turned pro around 25 years of age or so. Why are you qouting statistics as though they have merit?
the fact is he has fought nobody and wasn't even fighting alot of poor quality fighters to get experience and build his name he just expected to fight average guys and get a shot which he has done. He doesn't have a massive amount of fans because he has not built his name up even that much in notttingham. I find it funny you tried to claim froch has done things the right way but until 6 months ago all he need was call out calzaghe and fight nobodies.

[TFFP]

You said bradley was a top guy and ahtton ducked him i am pretty sure according to the rankins over the last 4 years bradley aint been that high and only since he beat witter has he became a contender. I am pretty sure paulie was a number 1 contender so surely hatton had to beat what was put in front of him :smooch
Why did he fight all those WBU cans instead of Witter?

Why did he fight Pauli Malignaggi instead of Witter?

[scurlaruntings]

He chose Paulie because of HBO and the fact he was one of the longest reinging champ in the division

Also Witter hadn't fought for what 9 months do you think HBO would have accepted Hatton v Witter :thinkLongest reigning? Witter held the WBC longer than Paulie held the IBF. :lol:

Paulie held that title for less than a year. He chose Paulie because Witter lost to Bradley and he stated clearly as he had done many a times he didnt want to fight Witter. Stop talking shit. And for your information HBO wanted Hatton Witter. The fight didnt materialise because Bradley beat Witter and there rivalry went off the boil.

[rydersonthestorm]

Why did he fight all those WBU cans instead of Witter?

Why did he fight Pauli Malignaggi instead of Witter?
He ducked witter in the wbu days no doubt
He fought paulie instead of witter because by this point witter had lost to bradley and had nothing to offer, why would anyone fight a guy that got beat by bradley instead of a fight in america to build your name.:rofl

[trotter]

And why did Hatton fight WBU cans for years and not fight his #1 domestic challenger, that was quite clearly a class fighter?

Futhermore, how did Witter manage to become the #1 ranked 140lb'er behind Ricky Hatton, without ever having fought him over such a long period?

It was blatant ducking. Call a spade a spade. I don't recall any other Brit so clearly ducking their #1 rival. Calzaghe, Froch, Eubank and Benn beforehand, Lewis and Bruno, they all did it. Hatton ducked Witter to keep his applecart on the move.

Do you accept that Joe has done the same then with Froch?


Lot of hot air being dispelled here over one simple fact; Junior was too high a risk for no reward.

Simple as that.

Doesn't mean Hatton was scared, doesn't mean Witter would have won, just means Witter offered nothing at all to Hatton he couldn't get in spades elsewhere (money, rep, titles).

[TFFP]

Do you accept that Joe has done the same then with Froch?


Lot of hot air being dispelled here over one simple fact; Junior was too high a risk for no reward.

Simple as that.

Doesn't mean Hatton was scared, doesn't mean Witter would have won, just means Witter offered nothing at all to Hatton he couldn't get in spades elsewhere (money, rep, titles).
In other words, he ducked him. I'm glad at least you can see what is right infront of your eyes!

And no, its completely different to Calzaghe/Froch. There were so many opportunities for Hatton to fight Witter when they were on the same level it wasn't even funny. There hasn't been the same window of opportunity for a Calzaghe/Froch match. Calzaghe fought Delaney and Eubank, his biggest domestic challenges at the time.

[dan-b]

Do you accept that Joe has done the same then with Froch?


Lot of hot air being dispelled here over one simple fact; Junior was too high a risk for no reward.

Simple as that.

Doesn't mean Hatton was scared, doesn't mean Witter would have won, just means Witter offered nothing at all to Hatton he couldn't get in spades elsewhere (money, rep, titles).

Do you see that as a good thing then? Big domestic bouts of genuine intrigue not happening because someone else offers a bit more cash?

The Froch/Calzaghe comparison is not really a valid one. For a start Joe never had it written into his contract that he would fight Froch, unlike Ricky did with Witter before he reneged on it.

[BoxingFanNo1]

And LL never endeared himself to no one and was a classic right time right place guy. I will not and refuse to reward medicority with a stamp of approval.

Lewis average, you racist/blind/Forrest Gump, which is it?

Need to go back and do some research Scurl, you're way off the mark with Lewis.

For the record I think Hatton was hyped but I mean come on, no-one thats a fraud goes more than 4 rounds with even that version of KT and certainly not 10 with PBF.

Guy loses to the 2 highest ranked, ATG, #1 P4P fighters of recent years and is a 'fraud'. :patsch

[Guy]

Lot of hot air being dispelled here over one simple fact; Junior was too high a risk for no reward.

Simple as that.

Doesn't mean Hatton was scared, doesn't mean Witter would have won, just means Witter offered nothing at all to Hatton he couldn't get in spades elsewhere (money, rep, titles).

Somehow Hatton getting beat my the absolute best fighter in the world makes Witter a better fighter than he is.
Witter has a terrible style too many, and it wasn't like the whole of he u.k was clamoring for the match up to be made anyway.

[dan-b]

In other words, he ducked him. I'm glad at least you can see what is right infront of your eyes!

And no, its completely different to Calzaghe/Froch. There were so many opportunities for Hatton to fight Witter when they were on the same level it wasn't even funny. There hasn't been the same window of opportunity for a Calzaghe/Froch match. Calzaghe fought Delaney and Eubank, his biggest domestic challenges at the time.

Not to mention Woodhall, Reid and Starie. Nobody can accuse Joe of not, at least, proving he was the best in his country.

[BremnerBomber]

Why did he fight all those WBU cans instead of Witter?

Why did he fight Pauli Malignaggi instead of Witter?


They wern't all cans to be honest their was some good boxers with alot of experience in there but all boxers have to build up a name and experience do expect he should have been fighting the top guys at 25 fights and 22/23 years of age

he was fighting 4 times a year against decent guys like Fredie Pendleton (who has fought some big names) Vince Phillps, Ben Tackie, Ray Olivera .... forget the WBU !! if that was just a series of fights for a up and coming fighter , it's not that bad

[TFFP]

It would be like DeGale going onto be a superstar with Frank ******. Before this he had it written into his contract he'd face George Groves. DeGale then wins the WBU strap, completely avoiding Groves while Groves struggles with the fledgling Hayemaker promotions, and DeGale defends it for years before finally moving on and fighting for a world title.

And Hatton fans wonder why it pisses people off, consider that :patsch

[dan-b]

Somehow Hatton getting beat my the absolute best fighter in the world makes Witter a better fighter than he is.
Witter has a terrible style too many, and it wasn't like the whole of he u.k was clamoring for the match up to be made anyway.

I don't think the whole of the nation was clamouring for him to fight Carlos Vilches either.

[Guy]

Lewis average, you racist/blind/Forrest Gump, which is it?

Need to go back and do some research Scurl, you're way off the mark with Lewis.

For the record I think Hatton was hyped but I mean come on, no-one thats a fraud goes more than 4 rounds with even that version of KT and certainly not 10 with PBF.

Guy loses to the 2 highest ranked, ATG, #1 P4P fighters of recent years and is a 'fraud'. :patsch
It bemuses me also, these people just lurk in the shadows waiting for their moment when they can discredit excellent careers.

Obviously detracting from their own average lives....

[scurlaruntings]

I don't think the whole of the nation was clamouring for him to fight Carlos Vilches either.O but we were! Remember when FW said Rickys opponent would be world class circa 2002 or so? He gave us Krivolapov who was ranked 10th or so by the WBC. :lol::lol:

[trotter]

In other words, he ducked him. I'm glad at least you can see what is right infront of your eyes!

And no, its completely different to Calzaghe/Froch. There were so many opportunities for Hatton to fight Witter when they were on the same level it wasn't even funny. There hasn't been the same window of opportunity for a Calzaghe/Froch match. Calzaghe fought Delaney and Eubank, his biggest domestic challenges at the time.

Joe has dodged the challenge of Carl Froch. Again I don't blame Joe, he had bigger fish to fry. But I do expect you to accept the parallels with Hatton-Witter. It's not a perfect comparison, nothing is, but the principles are the same.

You can't judge Joe's career on not fighting Froch and you can't judge Hatton on not fighting Witter.

If they weren't born in the same country there would be no reason to even discuss this.

[trotter]

They talk as though opportunity is inherently present for all fighters.

Zab Judah was an opportunity.

[rydersonthestorm]

Zab Judah was an opportunity.
yeah and witter stunk the place out with that fight

[TFFP]

Joe has dodged the challenge of Carl Froch. Again I don't blame Joe, he had bigger fish to fry. But I do expect you to accept the parallels with Hatton-Witter. It's not a perfect comparison, nothing is, but the principles are the same.

You can't judge Joe's career on not fighting Froch and you can't judge Hatton on not fighting Witter.

If they weren't born in the same country there would be no reason to even discuss this.
You are right, its not a perfect comparison. It is a very crude one with virtually no parallels.

When Calzaghe was cleaning out domestically, against Delaney, Eubank, Woodhall and co, Froch was in the amateurs.

I'm not judging Hatton's career by dodging Witter. His resume and achivements are there for consideration. I'm just calling a spade a spade here, he blatantly and obviously ducked Witter when there were many opportunities.

[rydersonthestorm]

Totally.

It took him years for the yanks to finally accept him as a legitimate fighter after that yawn-fest but Hatton definitely used Witters lack of marketability to steer clear of him.
I agree but people make out like hatton was his only shot, he had other chances but just didn't take them

[dan-b]

Zab Judah was an opportunity.

Yes, one that came early in his career and wasn't ready for.

[TFFP]

I can see why Hatton did it though. He knew his strengths and weaknesses, and they never matched up well against Witter. Even had he won he would have had a life and death struggle on his hands, it was a lot easier to face WBU opponents.

Hatton can't deal with handspeed. He can't see punches from certain angles. A left hook from an orthodox fighter or a right hook from a southpaw. Witter could do both, with speed, and power. He struggles to adjust during a fight, Witter's different looks would have confused him. :good

[rydersonthestorm]

Yes, one that came early in his career and wasn't ready for.
yeah but if he hadn't stunk the place out he would have gotten more from that opportunity, he was 26 not exactly a young kid.

[dan-b]

yeah but if he hadn't stunk the place out he would have gotten more from that opportunity, he was 26 not exactly a young kid.

What's age got to do with anything? I was talking about the stage of his career he was at and it was early. Too early to be facing a proven world level operator like Judah. So what would have constituted him 'not stinking the place out' as far as you're concerned? Perhaps trying to trade and getting knocked out? How would that have given him more opportunities?

[trotter]

You are right, its not a perfect comparison. It is a very crude one with virtually no parallels.

When Calzaghe was cleaning out domestically, against Delaney, Eubank, Woodhall and co, Froch was in the amateurs.

I'm not judging Hatton's career by dodging Witter. His resume and achivements are there for consideration. I'm just calling a spade a spade here, he blatantly and obviously ducked Witter when there were many opportunities.

I don't disagree he chose not to fight him. I just don't agree he 'ducked' him with all the connotations that word implies. It's a plain old risk reward equation.

But we do agree that years down the line, with hindsight, it actually doesn't matter so it's a waste of cyberspace to keep banging on about it...

[Guy]

Proven world level? it was his first defence ...

[dan-b]

I don't disagree he chose not to fight him. I just don't agree he 'ducked' him with all the connotations that word implies. It's a plain old risk reward equation.

But we do agree that years down the line, with hindsight, it actually doesn't matter so it's a waste of cyberspace to keep banging on about it...

People often discuss fights that didn't happen that should have so I'm pretty sure people will still discuss this years down the line.

[rydersonthestorm]

What's age got to do with anything? I was talking about the stage of his career he was at and it was early. Too early to be facing a proven world level operator like Judah. So what would have constituted him 'not stinking the place out' as far as you're concerned? Perhaps trying to trade and getting knocked out? How would that have given him more opportunities?
zab judah is 4 years younger than witter and hadn't exactly fought alot of world class fighters at that point in his career.
In regards to the performance putting up a good fight and getting koed would ahve no doubts brought him more opportunities the networks like people that coem to fight not just run away.

[dan-b]

Proven world level? it was his first defence ...

And? He was proven at the world level was he not? I'm not impying that Judah was an elite pound for pounder but he was certainly a few levels above Junior at that stage of his career.

[dan-b]

Although it was only his 18th fight, he took it at short notice and his career record was only 15/0/2 the fact remains that he set out to survive and fair play to him because he accomplished that. In doing so though he turned a nation away from him and found it very hard to gain their respect.

This, and other lacklustre performances throughout his career meant that the big TV companies had very little interest in him, thus giving Hatton the perfect excuse not to fight him.

I don't think he turned a nation against him because I doubt enough people even saw the fight. What you're saying is he would have been better of turning down the fight. I'm not having a pop because you seem a reasonable guy but do you not see the problem with that?

[dan-b]

zab judah is 4 years younger than witter and hadn't exactly fought alot of world class fighters at that point in his career.
In regards to the performance putting up a good fight and getting koed would ahve no doubts brought him more opportunities the networks like people that coem to fight not just run away.

Why do people keep going on about age? Hopkins was 28 when he fought Roy Jones but he clearly wasn't ready.

[dan-b]

Perhaps, if he wasn't going to try to win the fight he may have been better off turning it down. That could have back-fired too though admittedly. At the time of the fight, yes, you are most likely right in that not many people saw it but for years I read on forums how "Junior Witter is useless, he just ran all night from Judah and barely threw any punches."

That stuck with him even when he was banging people out during that good run he had a few years back.

The American fight fans just never really took him seriously and it hurt him as a marketable fighter. It all stems back to the Judah fight.

How many non-American fighters do the Yanks take seriously though?

[rydersonthestorm]

Why do people keep going on about age? Hopkins was 28 when he fought Roy Jones but he clearly wasn't ready.
Jones was also pretty green so it doesn't really work out, pretty simular to zab and junior.

[rydersonthestorm]

How many non-American fighters do the Yanks take seriously though?
it depends on what you mean by the yanks, they take people who come to fight seriosuly and people with a good fanbase, both of which witter couldn't do.

[dan-b]

it depends on what you mean by the yanks, they take people who come to fight seriosuly and people with a good fanbase, both of which witter couldn't do.

They don't ask for much then.:lol:

[Axl_Nose]

And why did Hatton fight WBU cans for years and not fight his #1 domestic challenger, that was quite clearly a class fighter?

Futhermore, how did Witter manage to become the #1 ranked 140lb'er behind Ricky Hatton, without ever having fought him over such a long period?

It was blatant ducking. Call a spade a spade. I don't recall any other Brit so clearly ducking their #1 rival. Calzaghe, Froch, Eubank and Benn beforehand, Lewis and Bruno, they all did it. Hatton ducked Witter to keep his applecart on the move.

Great post TFFP .. Every British fighter ducks dangerous contenders in they're careers because unlike the states there is plenty of money to be made from continually fighting bums .. Hatton, Bruno and Honeyghan are the only 3 guys who's career can seriously be evaluated because at some point or other they fought the best in they're divisions ..

Hatton fought Floyd and Pac
Bruno fought Lewis and Tyson
Honeyghan fought Curry and Starling ..

The rest of the Brit guys, Lewis, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Naz, and Calzaghe cant be properly evaluated by serious boxing fans because they either didnt fight the best of they're era or they took on guys that were well past they're best ..

Lewis and Calzaghe are pretty similar, Lewis fought Holyfield and Tyson when they were over the hill, Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones when they were over the hill .. Who else did they fight ?? Kessler has proved nothing, Tua was average .. Were are the Floyd's and the Manny Pac's in these careers ..
Collins feasted on the bones of his 'British' rivals after already being beaten by McCallum.
Eubank was good enough to beat Benn and Watson but does anybody seriously think he would have beaten, Toney, Jones or Nunn ??
Naz fought one guy who was near his prime and that was Barerra ..
I was a massive fan of Benn but he wouldnt have done anything against Toney, Nunn or Jones either.

My point is that Ricky Hatton has lost twice against 2 stellar, legendary fighters and some of the idiots on here are calling him a bum. At least he stepped in against them in they're prime ..

Calzaghe, Eubank, Benn and Lewis are very fortunate that they're legacy's dont rest on the outcome of fights against the calibre of fighters that Ricky has lost too ..

[mattress]

Good post. Some good but debatable points in there Axl.

[BremnerBomber]

Great post TFFP .. Every British fighter ducks dangerous contenders in they're careers because unlike the states there is plenty of money to be made from continually fighting bums .. Hatton, Bruno and Honeyghan are the only 3 guys who's career can seriously be evaluated because at some point or other they fought the best in they're divisions ..

Hatton fought Floyd and Pac
Bruno fought Lewis and Tyson
Honeyghan fought Curry and Starling ..

The rest of the Brit guys, Lewis, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Naz, and Calzaghe cant be properly evaluated by serious boxing fans because they either didnt fight the best of they're era or they took on guys that were well past they're best ..

Lewis and Calzaghe are pretty similar, Lewis fought Holyfield and Tyson when they were over the hill, Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones when they were over the hill .. Who else did they fight ?? Kessler has proved nothing, Tua was average .. Were are the Floyd's and the Manny Pac's in these careers ..
Collins feasted on the bones of his 'British' rivals after already being beaten by McCallum.
Eubank was good enough to beat Benn and Watson but does anybody seriously think he would have beaten, Toney, Jones or Nunn ??
Naz fought one guy who was near his prime and that was Barerra ..
I was a massive fan of Benn but he wouldnt have done anything against Toney, Nunn or Jones either.

My point is that Ricky Hatton has lost twice against 2 stellar, legendary fighters and some of the idiots on here are calling him a bum. At least he stepped in against them in they're prime ..

Calzaghe, Eubank, Benn and Lewis are very fortunate that they're legacy's dont rest on the outcome of fights against the calibre of fighters that Ricky has lost too ..


I agree with your post..... But your a bit hard on Benn and Lewis they fought everyone that would face them.

[rydersonthestorm]

Great post TFFP .. Every British fighter ducks dangerous contenders in they're careers because unlike the states there is plenty of money to be made from continually fighting bums .. Hatton, Bruno and Honeyghan are the only 3 guys who's career can seriously be evaluated because at some point or other they fought the best in they're divisions ..

Hatton fought Floyd and Pac
Bruno fought Lewis and Tyson
Honeyghan fought Curry and Starling ..

The rest of the Brit guys, Lewis, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Naz, and Calzaghe cant be properly evaluated by serious boxing fans because they either didnt fight the best of they're era or they took on guys that were well past they're best ..

Lewis and Calzaghe are pretty similar, Lewis fought Holyfield and Tyson when they were over the hill, Calzaghe fought Hopkins and Jones when they were over the hill .. Who else did they fight ?? Kessler has proved nothing, Tua was average .. Were are the Floyd's and the Manny Pac's in these careers ..
Collins feasted on the bones of his 'British' rivals after already being beaten by McCallum.
Eubank was good enough to beat Benn and Watson but does anybody seriously think he would have beaten, Toney, Jones or Nunn ??
Naz fought one guy who was near his prime and that was Barerra ..
I was a massive fan of Benn but he wouldnt have done anything against Toney, Nunn or Jones either.

My point is that Ricky Hatton has lost twice against 2 stellar, legendary fighters and some of the idiots on here are calling him a bum. At least he stepped in against them in they're prime ..

Calzaghe, Eubank, Benn and Lewis are very fortunate that they're legacy's dont rest on the outcome of fights against the calibre of fighters that Ricky has lost too ..
Good apart from the utter shit about lennox lewis, how is he in any way simulat to calzaghe the opponents people wanted lennox to fight avoided him rather than clazaghe not wanting to face a prime jones etc.

[brown bomber]

How can you include Lewis in that Axl.... Ruins a fairly decent post.

[zfc]

Many of the big name Americans didn`t want to fight Nigel Benn.Roy Jones ducked him and McClellan was sent over to bash him up.

Benn was a very good fighter in his prime and would have beaten Toney, Nunn and the rest he never avoided or ducked anybody.

[rydersonthestorm]

Many of the big name Americans didn`t want to fight Nigel Benn.Roy Jones ducked him and McClellan was sent over to bash him up.

Benn was a very good fighter in his prime and would have beaten Toney, Nunn and the rest he never avoided or ducked anybody.
nah benn was good but your taking the piss, most of those fighters would have beaten benn and he would prob tell you that himslef.

[zfc]

nah benn was good but your taking the piss, most of those fighters would have beaten benn and he would prob tell you that himslef.

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree on that one.....Benn went to America and destroyed De Witt and Iran Barkley the latter had pushed Nunn all the way and had impressive victories over many good fighters including Thomas Hearns.

The top Americans all knew about Benn especially Jones jnr who Benn called out numerous times.Toney muted a fight but thought better of it,Benn never ducked anyone but I am sure now that the adrenilin has long since gone Nigel would be very modest about his achievments and how he would fair against his peers.

[ron u.k.]

I was one of Benn's biggest fans but i couldn't of seen him beating Jones and Toney.Nobody could ever enter the ring with Nigel Benn without feeling in danger and that includes those two,but remember Nigel struggled with Watson and Eubank but Jones and Toney were a notch above those guys. Nunn i think was much more vulnerable and i think Benn could have beaten him.

[mattress]

Nobody could ever enter the ring with Nigel Benn without feeling in danger and that includes those two

Right on! I was nodding in agreement as I read it.

[Utter1]

Taking on the BEST fighters in the world when a massive pay day is at stake doesnt deserve credit in my eyes in the slightest. Thats merely doing whats best for yourself. Those fights happened because of the huge amount of money to be made. Hatton made in one fight what some boxers dont make in a lifetime. Equally whilst loosing to Pac and PBF is not a disgrace the manner of his losses were. It wasnt even close and was akin to a father beating his child.

As said already popularity is not a prerequisite for greatness and Hatton simply didnt have those skills before and certainly doesnt have them now. His whole premise was based on smoke and mirrors and when all is said and done, although he achieved wealth in this sport, he never did it justice because he chose WHO to fight and WHEN to fight them.

Dont get it twisted i do not wish malice on the boy but i will ALWAYS call a fraud when i see it. It was plain as light is day his career was a sham from the early WBU days. The chickens came home to roost. Hatton knows that now.


Yet again you sum it up perfectly.

Frochy went and fought Taylor and took a huge risk when he could have stayed in England and fought for same amount of money.

Do we all rank Independence day a better film than Shawshank redemption? Or course we bloody dont but comercially the latter was far more succesful.

Boxing is a brutal sport and certain fighters manage there carrers well and pick and choose and some dont.

I have a sneeky belief that Mayweather ic coming back becuase the Pacman has destroyed his two previous BIG wins in far easier fashion.

[trotter]

Yet again you sum it up perfectly.

Frochy went and fought Taylor and took a huge risk when he could have stayed in England and fought for same amount of money.



Fighting who?

[Utter1]

Anyone he liked........holds the WBC.........and if the WBC stripped him could have still fought for money with British TV offering a sizeable amount.

[mattress]

Fighting who?


Ignore him, he's a damn fool. Anyone who 'big ups' Betty and his crew are retards, at best.

[mattress]

Anyone he liked........holds the WBC.........and if the WBC stripped him could have still fought for money with British TV offering a sizeable amount.

I really didn't want to respond but this quote did make be chomp at the bit!

British TV didn't even want the exclusive, live rights to screen him fighting Taylor. How the hell are they going to offer him 'a sizeable amount' to fight a nobody????

You're not very clever are you? Go have a glass of milk and a lie down.

[GazOC]

Anyone he liked........holds the WBC.........and if the WBC stripped him could have still fought for money with British TV offering a sizeable amount.

Froch is 31, you think he wants to spend the next 2 years fighting at Nottingham Arena for £100,000 a fight until someone outpoints him?

He's realist, he knows he has a couple of years to cash in on the title and taking it on the road is usually a champions best option to do it esp. if their home support isn't that huge.

How much do you think ITV4 would pay Froch without a title?

[trotter]

Anyone he liked........holds the WBC.........and if the WBC stripped him could have still fought for money with British TV offering a sizeable amount.

Bang goes your credibility lol

[Utter1]

Not at all..........i dont need credibilty from you or anyone on here.......your just made up names that write on here.

Very few get it spot on.

Froch could easily have picked an easier fighter.........and if he was forced to fight Taylor he could easily have let go of the belt and fought someone else.

Point being is that he took a huge gamble pretty quickly once he became champ.

Is Froch a great fighter? Of course not it to early for that sort of thing........is he better than Hatton? Of course its to early and he was fortunate that Taylor lost his focus and stamina BUT the main thing is he took the gamble and fought in someone back yard.

Im not to sure what the money he got from taylor but it isnt more than 1 mill..........especially as UK tv didnt even buy the fight.

As i said before he could have stayed in England and picked and chose who he fought claiming he was the champion at Super-Middleweight, there is now talk of him fighting Hopkins.........i mean it took Calzaghe years to takes these type of gambles.

He took one when he stepped up to face Eubank.........but then you need to step up sooner or later......then was was content to fight men who were no hopers untill he beat a dangerous Lacy and showed his quality.....then handpicked again and took on the best he ever fought (prime) in kessler......then handpicked hopkins and Jones......Hopkins even at an advanced age for me only lost it by one round when viewing the fight.

Calazaghe and Hatton are prime examples of being groomed.....with nice shiny records and a long list of fighting guys who were names but past it or some type of angle to it.

It the same with Amir Khan.

Froch victory over Taylor trumps the lacy win already that calzaghe gained......and who know what he could achieve.

[Utter1]

Froch is 31, you think he wants to spend the next 2 years fighting at Nottingham Arena for £100,000 a fight until someone outpoints him?

He's realist, he knows he has a couple of years to cash in on the title and taking it on the road is usually a champions best option to do it esp. if their home support isn't that huge.

How much do you think ITV4 would pay Froch without a title?



joker........you reckom the WBC champ will get 100 grand hehehehehehehehehehhe

[Utter1]

Ignore him, he's a damn fool. Anyone who 'big ups' Betty and his crew are retards, at best.


Shut ur piehole u little girl............big up a crew? this isnt some postcode fucking war u moron...........by my mere suggestion that betty whoeever and scurla are bang on shows i agree with them.......i dont need to big them up u simpleton.

[Leif Erikson]

I find it ironic that the thread starter has always proudly displayed a James Toney avatar, a man who never managed to beat a truly 'elite' fighter and who all-too often found himself on the wrong end of a decision when fighting top class opposition in their prime.

And even when fighting a past-prime Drake Thadzi, for that matter....

Just think, all of that natural talent - far, far more than Hatton was born with - and still failing to beat Drake Thadzi. :lol:

And if struggling to a close but fair decision win over Luis Collazo is bad, imagine being genuinely humiliated by Dave Tiberi and being giftwrapped one of the most despicable decisions in boxing history. A decision so bent it makes the Hatton 'shoe lace' controversy look like a mere drop in the ocean. All to protect the (at the time) very hyped champion. :bart

[GazOC]

joker........you reckom the WBC champ will get 100 grand hehehehehehehehehehhe

I'm sorry to break this to you but they don't pay purses based on titles, they pay them on what a fight (and fighter) is worth and Carl Froch defending is WBC title against East Europeans at Nottingham Arena is not going to get him as much money as taking his title over to America/ Denmark or wherever else theres a hometown fighter with decent promotional muscle who wants to try and take his title.

At the age of 31 there isn't enough time for him to take the long term view and make a few marking time defences while his waits for the big fights to come to him or even your brilliant suggestion of getting stripped and trying to get rich off non-title fights on ITV4.....

[JonOli]

Scurlaruntings, Yet again you sum it up perfectly.

:lol:

[GazOC]

Shut ur piehole u little girl.......

Quality post. I can see you're going to fit right in with Betty and Scurlas little fun bunch...:good

[onourway]

People are really talking about Witter again? :rofl:rofl:rofl

Priceless.

[onourway]

By the way, to anybody debating with Scurlaruntings.....

...he scored the Hatton/Urango fight 114 - 113 to Hatton....that tells you all you need to know about how much this guy knows about boxing.

Absolutely clueless.

[Cobbler]

Froch fought Taylor because that fight represented the best risk/reward scenario open to him. Simple as.

It was the biggest money he was likely to get, the biggest exposure he was likely to get, and the biggest opportunity he was likely to get, against a very beatable opponent.

Do you think Richard Schaeffer would be talking about Froch v Hopkins if Froch just beat Karo Murat or Robert Stieglitz at Nottingham Ice Rink, live on ITV4?

[Farmboxer]

Hatton had a good career, so many boxers would have loved to have had such a career.

[Utter1]

I'm sorry to break this to you but they don't pay purses based on titles, they pay them on what a fight (and fighter) is worth and Carl Froch defending is WBC title against East Europeans at Nottingham Arena is not going to get him as much money as taking his title over to America/ Denmark or wherever else theres a hometown fighter with decent promotional muscle who wants to try and take his title.

At the age of 31 there isn't enough time for him to take the long term view and make a few marking time defences while his waits for the big fights to come to him or even your brilliant suggestion of getting stripped and trying to get rich off non-title fights on ITV4.....


Ok what arent you getitng?

He won the WBC title which would have given him enough drawing power to make decent money after that fight and certainly build up a huge amount of wins against handpicked guys.......instead he chose to go out and risk all.......and becuase of his risk taking he will improve as a fighter. I suspect though that he will come unstuck against Kessler, Hopkins or any other elite fighter he seeks.....as his boxing skills are still average in terms of the elites of this sport.

I didnt say him getting stripped would be good........read, read and read some more pls.............Froch went and took the bigger risk and didnt have to.

How many times do we see fighters win belts and then refuse to defend becuase its against a tough fighter or high risk/litte reward.

In the end of the day........this all comes down to the Ricky Hatton part where he was staged managed to be something he wasnt. I agreed on many points that scurla and that betty guy made........but dosent mean i agree on everything with these guys and certainly not what scurla had to say about Lennox.

Ive said already my take on Hatton........in British terms......he is a great british fighter.........but we are one country. In terms of the world and boxing history he for me isnt even good enough to be a top 20 Light-Welterweight/Welterweight.

Anyhow...........i dont consider him a welter......more of a lightweight.......as boxing has created far to many weights....all these little 10 stone men should be considered lightweight.......and he has got undone in brutal fashion by the current best in the lightweight/light welter divisions.

Diaz did better...............but i also want to point out that Hatton is the only one to stage manage his carrer......Floyd Mayweather is another except he is a great fighter..........some of his best wins have been eaten up by pacman literally........this is why i suspect he is coming back.

Hatton has been promoted as if he were a ring legend in the same

[Strike]

By the way, to anybody debating with Scurlaruntings.....

...he scored the Hatton/Urango fight 114 - 113 to Hatton....that tells you all you need to know about how much this guy knows about boxing.

Absolutely clueless.

He also likes to pretend that he simply saw Hatton has overrated and that he has not been a blind hater when the facts are...

He picked Tackie by KO inside 3 rounds and spent days laughing on here about how Hatton was out of his league against Tackie and would be destroyed.

He spent months saying Hatton would never dare fight Tsyzu, no mention of thinking Tsyzu was too old and when the fight was announced he picked Tsyzu by KO in the first round.

He said before the Castillo fight that even though Castillo was past his best he expected him to stop Hatton.

He then wrote after that fight that Hatton had still never faced a good young fighter and he picked Paulie Malignaggi to beat him if Hatton ever accepted a fight with a young fighter like him.

And now Hatton has lost to Pacman in bad style and he is here trying to pretend that it was deep boxing knowledge and not hate that led him to criticise Hatton, a guy who he has picked against in almost every fight since Magee.:lol:

Hatton is and was World Class. He is not Elite. He has stepped up to Elite level 3 times, won one and been beaten twice. Perhaps his life style has caught up with him, perhaps not. I never thought he could beat PBF no matter when they met or where. I did think he could beat Pac, but I was wrong.
Pac is true elite, Hatton is simply world class and belongs and always did belong on the world stage fighting the top 5 men in his division, being a world champion but not being able to compete with ATG fighters.

There is no shame in that, and there is only pathetic hatred and bias that would have anyone suggest that he was not a world champion standard fighter. In the end if Hatton had beaten Pac, Scurla and Betty et al would have given credit for a few weeks, but within a year the win would be dismissed as hand picking a smaller man from a lower weight class and that is a FACT.