Does Jeffries belong in the top 30 of all time? [Archive]

mr. magoo

06-23-2007, 02:45 PM

Absolutely,

Jim Jeffries won the heavyweight title from another all time great in Bob Fitszimmons, with only some 11 fights under his belt, and defended it 7 times successfully. He defeated a number of good fighters such as, Tom Sharkey, Peter Jackson, James Corbett, Bob Fitszimmons and several others. He was a tremendous athlete and physical specimen, especially given the standards of his day. What's more, he showed great courage in his efforts against Jack Johnson upon returning to the ring after a 6 year layoff.

James Jeffries will always have a place on my top 10 list....

Muchmoore

06-23-2007, 02:48 PM

Jeffries is a lock for the top 20. Hes around 15th in my opinion.

McGrain

06-23-2007, 02:49 PM

Absolutely,

He was a tremendous athlete and physical specimenJames Jeffries will always have a place on my top 10 list....

:good

mcvey

06-23-2007, 02:52 PM

Yea or nay?
Probably outside the top ten but comfortably inside the top twenty,imo.

janitor

06-23-2007, 03:30 PM

I have him in my top 5.

He was as dominant as any heavyweigfht champion in history. In a fight to the finish he would be virtualy unbeatable.

Zakman

06-23-2007, 03:42 PM

Good lord. Top 30?? He's borderline top ten!!!

UpWithEvil

06-23-2007, 03:50 PM

cross_trainer

06-23-2007, 04:15 PM

CT and I have had this discussion before, but I always think of Jeffries as the original prototype for the modern MMA fighter. Jeffries, who was just slightly larger than current UFC heavyweight champion Randy Couture, may have dominated this new sport to the same degree he dominated boxing.

But of course, you can't be blamed for doubting if the modern era could forge an iron man like Jeffries.

His sparring with Roeber was apparently filmed. (Of course, you probably already knew that. :D)

Now THERE would be an amazing little piece of history.

Incidentally, have you ever heard of William Miller? A sort of proto-Jeffries...5'10" 195 lbs., Australian champion in bareknuckle pugilism and one of the best in the world in gloved (point) boxing during the early reign of John L Sullivan...but also among the 3-5 best Greco-Roman wrestlers in the world, accomplished in gymnastics, and capable of a 200 lb. bent press (using pre-Sandow technique).

Amsterdam

06-23-2007, 04:19 PM

#11 for me personally.

rekcutnevets

06-23-2007, 04:25 PM

I'll be honest, I've never rated far enough back to count him. He is not in my top 13, but I don't think he is far behind.

Calroid

06-23-2007, 04:26 PM

Absolutely no doubt, Jeffries should be in the top 30 of all time. I'd say top ten.

How Good Was Jim Jeffries?
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Jim Jeffries - The Final Analysis
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Calroid

06-23-2007, 04:28 PM

He was as dominant as any heavyweigfht champion in history. In a fight to the finish he would be virtualy unbeatable.

:thumbsup

UpWithEvil

06-23-2007, 05:02 PM

His sparring with Roeber was apparently filmed. (Of course, you probably already knew that. )

Yeah, because of you :)

THAT would be something to see - the world's greatest Greco-Roman wrestler trying to upend arguably the greatest athlete in the world. I have a couple of newspaper account of their exhibitions although Jeffries isn't credited with a throw in either one. Are you aware of any reports that credit Jeffries with a throw on Roeber during their touring?

janitor

06-23-2007, 05:08 PM

Yeah, because of you :)

THAT would be something to see - the world's greatest Greco-Roman wrestler trying to upend arguably the greatest athlete in the world. I have a couple of newspaper account of their exhibitions although Jeffries isn't credited with a throw in either one. Are you aware of any reports that credit Jeffries with a throw on Roeber during their touring?

Jeffries would probably have had his way in the clinches with any heavyweight champion in history due to his wrestling background.

cross_trainer

06-23-2007, 05:08 PM

Yeah, because of you :)

THAT would be something to see - the world's greatest Greco-Roman wrestler trying to upend arguably the greatest athlete in the world. I have a couple of newspaper account of their exhibitions although Jeffries isn't credited with a throw in either one. Are you aware of any reports that credit Jeffries with a throw on Roeber during their touring?

Unfortunately, I don't have any Roeber-Jeffries newspaper accounts. If the matches were genuine rather than purely for exhibition, it would definitely be impressive to read.

If we could locate Roeber/Jeffries, it would be the earliest wrestling film in existence.

Ah, by the way: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Enjoy. :D

redrooster

06-23-2007, 05:10 PM

top 3 for me beating out such accomplished pugs as Ali, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, and Bowe.

Bummy Davis

06-23-2007, 06:59 PM

Yes but as time goes by there are more heavyweight champs and the top 10 is hard to squeeze in to. I think there is a top 4 Louis,Marciano,Ali,Dempsey and the rest have to double up

UpWithEvil

06-24-2007, 08:58 AM

Ah, by the way: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Enjoy. :D

"Temporary file open error. Display failed."

cross_trainer

06-24-2007, 10:11 AM

"Temporary file open error. Display failed."

Hmmm....

Do a google search for "wrestling at the New York Athletic Club" in the Library of Congress's early American film database.

Alternately, you can visit this site, but I think it only has a lower resolution version of the clip:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Doppleganger

06-24-2007, 10:45 AM

No question and he might get in my Top 10. In fact he was in there last time I compiled a list.

PowerPuncher

06-24-2007, 10:52 AM

Jim? Of course! I have him in the top ten. Was there a tougher man in possesion of the heavyweight title? Ever?

Yes

Bill1234

06-24-2007, 10:57 AM

100% yes.

McGrain

06-24-2007, 06:34 PM

Yes

Tell me who?

Or should that be "whom"?

C. M. Clay II

06-25-2007, 01:04 AM

Tell me who?

Or should that be "whom"?

Ali, Foreman, Liston, Chuvalo, Tua, Tyson, and others.

Pat_Lowe

06-25-2007, 01:05 AM

Ali, Foreman, Liston, Chuvalo, Tua, Tyson, and others.

At what point in history did Tua and Chuvalo hold the title?

C. M. Clay II

06-25-2007, 01:35 AM

At what point in history did Tua and Chuvalo hold the title?

And what does that have to do with whether they were tougher than him or not?:huh

Beebs

06-25-2007, 05:01 AM

Top ten, definatly, for anybody to deny him top 30, thats just outright lieing.

Beebs

06-25-2007, 05:07 AM

Unfortunately, I don't have any Roeber-Jeffries newspaper accounts. If the matches were genuine rather than purely for exhibition, it would definitely be impressive to read.

If we could locate Roeber/Jeffries, it would be the earliest wrestling film in existence.

Ah, by the way: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Enjoy. :D

Do you have any info on Jefferies wrestling accomplishments? Did he compete in any tournaments or something along those lines?

janitor

06-25-2007, 05:08 AM

Ali, Foreman, Liston, Chuvalo, Tua, Tyson, and others.

In terms of mental toughness Foreman, Liston, tyson and Tua were children next to Jeffries.

The guy won a fight with a dislocated elbow.

Holmes' Jab

06-25-2007, 06:17 AM

Of course he does. I have him just outside my Top 10 (at #11 or so)

Pat_Lowe

06-25-2007, 07:15 AM

And what does that have to do with whether they were tougher than him or not?:huh

Originally Posted by McGrain
Jim? Of course! I have him in the top ten. Was there a tougher man in possesion of the heavyweight title? Ever?

McGrain

06-25-2007, 07:23 AM

Ali, Foreman, Liston, Chuvalo, Tua, Tyson, and others.

Perhaps I should hav explained what I meant by "Tougher". I don't mean best, or most likely to win a fight - i mean toughest. Get the job done, doesn't matter what happens, take punishment, stay in there, keep fighting old school plough the back field the day after a 40 round war type tough. As much in the mind as the body I guess.

Ali doesn't qualify. He was far to interested in getting things his own way. Having said that, his Manilla performance alone qualifies him in terms of durability.

Foreman doesn't qualify. Didn't he plunge into a horrible depression after Ali beat him? Jeffries probably would have gone and broken a horse the next day, then started complaining about the re-match he'd be expected to fight.

Liston is an interesting choice. Rocky Marciano would also be a reasonable pick. But i'd probably have them at #3 and #2 respectively.

Not even touching your Tyson suggestion!

cross_trainer

06-25-2007, 09:33 AM

Do you have any info on Jefferies wrestling accomplishments? Did he compete in any tournaments or something along those lines?

He had several exhibitions in which he did quite well against Ernest Roeber, who was the European champion in Greco-Roman wrestling at the time. Also trained with Farmer Burns in catch wrestling, and was doing exhibitions with the latter as late as 1910. Burns considered him to be quite good.

No formal credentials (there really weren't any in those days, to be fair), but he certainly mixed with some of the best wrestlers of his day.

Bad_Intentions

06-25-2007, 10:40 AM

yes.

Beebs

06-25-2007, 05:32 PM

He had several exhibitions in which he did quite well against Ernest Roeber, who was the European champion in Greco-Roman wrestling at the time. Also trained with Farmer Burns in catch wrestling, and was doing exhibitions with the latter as late as 1910. Burns considered him to be quite good.

No formal credentials (there really weren't any in those days, to be fair), but he certainly mixed with some of the best wrestlers of his day.

Damn, I was hoping there would be some sort of AAU records or something, but yea, its pretty clear he was a very legit Greco guy.

Raggamuffin

06-26-2007, 09:09 AM

Jeffries is a lock for the top 20. Hes around 15th in my opinion.

I agree with this

amhlilhaus

06-26-2007, 04:59 PM

And what does that have to do with whether they were tougher than him or not?:huh

tyson was in no way, shape or form tougher than jeffries. he took a whipping on occasion, but he was a quitter later in his career.

jeffries is well known for toughness, joe choynski hit him so hard with a uppercut his teeth wedged into his upper lip, the corner cut it loose with a knife. bob fitzsimmons, one of the hardest punchers ever, with little itty-bitty gloves, equivalent to modern mma gloves reinforced them with plaster of paris, and one punch sheared a slice of skin back, causing a torrent of blood to flow, jeffries came back to ko bob.