View Full Version : Liston Ali Holmes Genuine Super Heavies
I think these guys, Liston in particular, are overlooked as genuine big men. People talk about their prime weights and in Listons case his height and forget their other stats regarding their size. Check this link to see the tale of the tape of many HW champs and see they measure up well with Bowe, Lewis, Old Foreman, Tubbs etc
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Bokaj
05-03-2009, 12:40 PM
I think Liston's reach (among other things) would make him a nightmare in today's era.
abraq
05-03-2009, 02:11 PM
Yes, much of today's weight and even height advantage is really a result of advances in food, child care, nutritional practices, training methodologies and the really big word "D, well let me be discreet, "performance enhancers".
With these advanatges - or on the flip side without these advantages - not only Liston, Ali and Holmes but also many others from the past notably Johnson, Jeffries, Baer, Louis and Walcott wouldn't be at much of a size disadvantage against today's so called superheavies.
ChrisPontius
05-03-2009, 04:01 PM
A 6'0 210lbs man doesn not constitute a superheavyweight, nor do 6'3 215lbs ones.
Bokaj
05-03-2009, 04:03 PM
A 6'0 210lbs man doesn not constitute a superheavyweight, nor do 6'3 215lbs ones.
I think he was referring to reach mainly. At least Ali and Liston had a reach that was about the same as the superheavies.
janitor
05-03-2009, 04:43 PM
I think he was referring to reach mainly. At least Ali and Liston had a reach that was about the same as the superheavies.
Looking at the Williams fights I think that Liston is not so much a superheavyweight as a superheavyweight destroying monitor (take note Mr Pontius).
He has the reach and the ofensive arsenal of a superheavyweight but he has a lower profile and knows how to use it. While they have to go back to avoid his punches he can duck under.
Polymath
05-03-2009, 04:46 PM
I think he was referring to reach mainly. At least Ali and Liston had a reach that was about the same as the superheavies.
ChrisPontius is a fucking moron. He has repeatadly posted that Chris Byrd was a bigger man than Sonny Liston, and he isn't kidding.
ChrisPontius
05-03-2009, 05:06 PM
ChrisPontius is a fucking moron. He has repeatadly posted that Chris Byrd was a bigger man than Sonny Liston, and he isn't kidding.
I said that he weighed as much and is as tall, and that's a fact, unless 212 of 1960 pounds are 240lbs today.
But hey, if you think a 6'0 212lbs guy is a superheavyweight, then more power to you. :lol: Tyson was a superheavyweight too, come to think of it, he's only half an inch shorter and weighs more.
janitor
05-03-2009, 05:08 PM
ChrisPontius is a fucking moron. He has repeatadly posted that Chris Byrd was a bigger man than Sonny Liston, and he isn't kidding.
Chill.
mr. magoo
05-03-2009, 05:10 PM
ChrisPontius is a fucking moron. He has repeatadly posted that Chris Byrd was a bigger man than Sonny Liston, and he isn't kidding.
We've had enough nastiness on this forum for one week, and I can personally vouch for that one. At any rate, as much as you may disagree with Chris P, he does have a valid point. While Liston may have had the longer arm length, and perhaps more natural strength, the size dimensions are clearly written in black and white..
Polymath
05-03-2009, 05:22 PM
he does have a valid point.
No he doesn't.
Liston may have had the longer arm length, and perhaps more natural strength, the size dimensions are clearly written in black and white..
Yeh and Valuev is one of the best fighters of all time. Look at his record. Its there in black and white. That makes sense if you have autism (or are a moron).
mr. magoo
05-03-2009, 05:36 PM
I think I'll leave this topic alone. In fact, maybe I'll take a few weeks off from ESB. This place isn't the friendly social outlet that it used to be.
Polymath
05-03-2009, 05:38 PM
Try Match.com
Longhhorn71
05-03-2009, 05:48 PM
Bob Fitzsimmons broke his hands up hitting Jim Jefferies' jaw.
"Jeff" was a superheavy for his day.
Russell
05-03-2009, 06:03 PM
Try Match.com
:lol::lol::lol:
I was refering to chest, biceps, thigh, fist, calf etc as well as reach. Their measurements stack up well with the "big" fighters
SuzieQ49
05-04-2009, 12:27 AM
A 6'0 210lbs man doesn not constitute a superheavyweight, nor do 6'3 215lbs ones.
Liston was 6'1, not 6'0. Also I have a Ring Magazine issue May of 2003 where Chris Byrd states that he naturally weighs 195lb and has to eat himself up to 210lb for fights. Liston on the otherhand is a natural 220-230lber cutting down to 215lb for big fights. Clearly there is a difference in size here between a natural cruiserweight, and a natural heavyweight withe dimensions of a superheavyweight. Liston can be labeled "a freak of nature" with his measurements for a 6'1 man.
ChrisPontius
05-04-2009, 04:05 AM
Liston was 6'1, not 6'0. Also I have a Ring Magazine issue May of 2003 where Chris Byrd states that he naturally weighs 195lb and has to eat himself up to 210lb for fights. Liston on the otherhand is a natural 220-230lber cutting down to 215lb for big fights. Clearly there is a difference in size here between a natural cruiserweight, and a natural heavyweight withe dimensions of a superheavyweight. Liston can be labeled "a freak of nature" with his measurements for a 6'1 man.
Some sources list him as 6'0, some as 6'1, some as 6'1/2". He sure looked 3 inches shorter than Ali to me. Byrd can say what he want; of course he wants to talk himself into a smaller man to lift the breath of his performances. Boxers do this all the time. And i don't really know what you mean by Liston being a "natural" 220-220lber? During his prime he was around 210lbs in the ring, was he not? Doesn't that make him a natural 210lber?
Also, wingspan is a deceiving measurement. How much did his 84" inch reach show against Ali, who has a wingspan of 79 to 82" depending on your source, but has 3 inches on him? Height is more important; Liston couldn't land a single jab on Ali all night. His actual reach didn't look longer than Williams' either..... who, by the way, at 6'3" 213lbs was no superheavyweight either, but as big as Haye who is being called too small today (not by me, btw).
ChrisPontius
05-04-2009, 04:06 AM
No he doesn't.
Yeh and Valuev is one of the best fighters of all time. Look at his record. Its there in black and white. That makes sense if you have autism (or are a moron).
You sound frustrated.
Bokaj
05-04-2009, 04:17 AM
Looking at the Williams fights I think that Liston is not so much a superheavyweight as a superheavyweight destroying monitor (take note Mr Pontius).
He has the reach and the ofensive arsenal of a superheavyweight but he has a lower profile and knows how to use it. While they have to go back to avoid his punches he can duck under.
My take on it as well.
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