Who Can Beat Pacquiao?

[Chinxkid]

Ok, I think that to beat Manny at his current best, you're gonna have to do one of two things: outbox him or outgun him. Nothing real unusual there, I guess. But my point is that this guy is fast, has great awareness and great foot movement. Also, largely because of his movement his brings alotta punch for his weight class.

My question to you guys, is which of any of the current 140 pounders has the best shot at him?

[lefthook31]

Mayweather

[janitor]

My grandpa.....

With a stick while he sleeps.

Short of that I cant see anybody doing it under 147.

[Chinxkid]

Mayweather


That would be my first pick too. Anybody that walks into this guy is in for big trouble. Latin fighters tend to do that, traditionally. How much starch does Mayweather have on his shots? How 'bout any of the other contenders in that division? Anybody who could take Manny's peppering and out punch him too?

[GPater11093]

FMJ can do it

i would like to see JMM have another go i felt he won the fights with Pac and can beat him again

[Chinxkid]

My grandpa.....

With a stick while he sleeps.

Short of that I cant see anybody doing it under 147.

What do you attribute it to? His speed, his focus? He sure has great awareness inside, where a lot of guys tend to get caught for a lack of it?

[Chinxkid]

FMJ can do it

i would like to see JMM have another go i felt he won the fights with Pac and can beat him again

I didn't see them. What did Marquez bring to those match ups that made them so competitive?

[GPater11093]

I didn't see them. What did Marquez bring to those match ups that made them so competitive?

he just counter punched Pac superbly and outboxed him

if your wanting a copy of them PM me as there great fights

[TFFP]

Timing and sense of distance. Marquez kept a very tight guard, and had the accuracy and timing to catch Pacquiao moving in and out. It requires a lot of patience and extremely good timing to work that gameplan, not to mention outstanding technical ability. I think only Marquez and Mayweather could work that gameplan. Mayweather may even take a more aggressive approach.

And in the end you are still running the risk of being outworked when you try to counter him.

[janitor]

What do you attribute it to? His speed, his focus? He sure has great awareness inside, where a lot of guys tend to get caught for a lack of it?

Alot of people (me included) thought that Hatton had a good shot because he was a larger pressure fighter.

Some fighters run into trouble when they step up and some positivley thrive. Paquiao feasts on larger oponents because his advantages in speed are magnified and his power can do the rest. Like with Barbados Joe Walcott, Jack Dillon, Jack Dempsey etc the big guys just get in their own way.

Michael Moorer said before the fight that Paquiao hit like a heavyweight and we dismised that as exageration. Now it rings chillingly true.

[Chinxkid]

Yes, it would seem that timing and sense of distance would be everything with a guy like Manny that's in and out, side to side, and all over the ring. I really like that style of a fighter, for those that can do it. Plus, I think Manny would be about half the puncher he is without that movement. The guy uses momentum to its most advantageous. So much more exciting, for me at least to see a guy who can move so well, and still bring so much offense.

[GPater11093]

Timing and sense of distance. Marquez kept a very tight guard, and had the accuracy and timing to catch Pacquiao moving in and out. It requires a lot of patience and extremely good timing to work that gameplan, not to mention outstanding technical ability. I think only Marquez and Mayweather could work that gameplan. Mayweather may even take a more aggressive approach.

And in the end you are still running the risk of being outworked when you try to counter him.

i can see Mayweather doing what he did against Judah early. Keeping gloves high and shutting down his opponent

[Chinxkid]

Alot of people (me included) thought that Hatton had a good shot because he was a larger pressure fighter.

Some fighters run into trouble when they step up and some positivley thrive. Paquiao feasts on larger oponents because his advantages in speed are magnified and his power can do the rest. Like with Barbados Joe Walcott, Jack Dillon, Jack Dempsey etc the big guys just get in their own way.

Michael Moorer said before the fight that Paquiao hit like a heavyweight and we dismised that as exageration. Now it rings chillingly true.

You know, I'll tell you, this guy is an exciting friggin fighter. Let me ask you something... How much of this guy's magic is his pure enthusiasm? For the game, for life, period? His Momma did something right.

[GPater11093]

TFFP excellant post and break down of the fight

[jones1]

Marquez, Mayweather, maybe Mosley. Only time will tell. Bring on Pavlik!

[janitor]

You know, I'll tell you, this guy is an exciting friggin fighter. Let me ask you something... How much of this guy's magic is his pure enthusiasm? For the game, for life, period? His Momma did something right.

This gentleman is an absolute warior.

DLH and Hatton both (in my opinion) took fights with him because they saw them as fights against a p4p great where they would enjoy a considerable weight advantage.

Before the DLH fight people were saying that Paquiao should get out of the ring in one piece, then get to the bank as quickly as possible.

The hunters were turned into the fireside rugs.

[PopeJackson]

I like most of the 147 class like Cotto, Mayweather, ect. And I think Marquez has already beat him twice so him too.

[Chinxkid]

This gentleman is an absolute warior.

DLH and Hatton both (in my opinion) took fights with him because they saw them as fights against a p4p great where they would enjoy a considerable weight advantage.

Before the DLH fight people were saying that Paquiao should get out of the ring in one piece, then get to the bank as quickly as possible.

The hunters were turned into the fireside rugs.

What a crowd pleaser too, right? A little excitement on fight night never hurt anybody. It is after all, partly show business. I wonder how much of a reduced role Roach will have to take now? And I wonder what effect that will have on Manny's showing in the ring. Can Michael Moorer really carry that ball for him?

[Russell]

You know, I'll tell you, this guy is an exciting friggin fighter. Let me ask you something... How much of this guy's magic is his pure enthusiasm? For the game, for life, period? His Momma did something right.

He's got a Duran like passion for the sport if nothing else. And it hasn't dimmed in the slightest yet once he's made it to the top.

He got at least 12 million dollars for last nights fight. :scaredas::rofl

[janitor]

[quote=Chinxkid;3955783]What a crowd pleaser too, right? A little excitement on fight night never hurt anybody. It is after all, partly show business.

Mr Paquiao gave me my two greatest defeats in fight predictions against DLH and Hatton.

The only two in recent years where I never came close.


I wonder how much of a reduced role Roach will have to take now? And I wonder what effect that will have on Manny's showing in the ring. Can Michael Moorer really carry that ball for him?


I hope so because I have thoroughly enjoyed being upset in my predictions.

Both times I got it badly wrong I felt richer.

[Chinxkid]

He's got a Duran like passion for the sport if nothing else. And it hasn't dimmed in the slightest yet once he's made it to the top.

He got at least 12 million dollars for last nights fight. :scaredas::rofl

Right, 12 million plus, right? I'm told by a Philipino friend that that translates to, you ready for this? 600 million on Manny's remote Mindinao ilsand. This guy is gonna end up with his own island. And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[Chinxkid]

[quote]

Mr Paquiao gave me my two greatest defeats in fight predictions against DLH and Hatton.

The only two in recent years where I never came close.



I hope so because I have thoroughly enjoyed being upset in my predictions.

Both times I got it badly wrong I felt richer.

Moore always struck me as a bright guy, but Freddie's a guru in the game. I don't really know how much his Parkinson's (isn't that what they're saying it is? It's not the Ali kind of Parkinson's, is it? Part Parkinson's/part dimentia?

[Russell]

Right, 12 million plus, right? I'm told by a Philipino friend that that translates to, you ready for this? 600 million on Manny's remote Mindinao ilsand. This guy is gonna end up with his own island. And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Mhm, 12 million at least was what was said as he was talking to the ring.

[PowerPuncher]

A mover and slick counter puncher will give Pacman more problems so 140-down - Joan Guzman, Bradley, Marquez would all be tricky and could potentially outbox him. 147, this maybe too much for him size and skill wise, Mayweather, Mosley, Williams all beat him imo, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito are all much bigger

[Russell]

Fighters without fire and drive aren't going to beat Pacquiao.

I'd give Nate Campbell a better chance then Guzman because of that. You have to WANT it against Pacquiao.

Why do you think Morales managed to beat him? You have to be willing to go through hell to beat or come close to beating Manny.

[natonic]

I think a prime Mayweather would beat him. It remains to be seen if Mayweather is still prime. Mayweather would fight off the back foot and force Manny to lead and draw him in to mistakes. Possibly. I think it's a tossup fight at this point. Pac is peaking at this time and this weight. I think JMM is slightly on the down side. I don't think he could handle Pac in a 3rd fight.

[mr. magoo]

I think Floyd Mayweather still has the ability to pull it off, but I say that with no real conviction. Its highly debatable as to how committed he still is to boxing, and Should he have to drop weight to face Pac, it may prove to be his undoing at this point. Although I am not a huge advocate of comparing results with common opponents, we have to acknowledge that Pac has managed to beat both of Floyd's last two opponents with far greater ease than he did. What does it mean? Perhaps nothing, but it shouldn't be overlooked either.

One thing is certain. If these two ever climb into the same ring, none of my money is going down.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Ok, I think that to beat Manny at his current best, you're gonna have to do one of two things: outbox him or outgun him. Nothing real unusual there, I guess. But my point is that this guy is fast, has great awareness and great foot movement. Also, largely because of his movement his brings alotta punch for his weight class.

My question to you guys, is which of any of the current 140 pounders has the best shot at him?

Only one guy's gonna even test him at present - FMJ - and it'll happen and it'll be huge!!

[SuzieQ49]

Mayweather, Mosley, Williams all beat him imo

Moseley? no way hes 37, and if Oscar De La Hoya can't do it, Moseley defintley cannot.

[natonic]

Mosely has proven to be a better fighter than De La Hoya both from a head to head standpoint and from recent results. Mosely is one of the few guys who Pac wouldn't overwhelm with speed and he hits harder than anyone Pac has fought.

[slugger408]

Jorge Linares

[john garfield]

Ok, I think that to beat Manny at his current best, you're gonna have to do one of two things: outbox him or outgun him. Nothing real unusual there, I guess. But my point is that this guy is fast, has great awareness and great foot movement. Also, largely because of his movement his brings alotta punch for his weight class.

My question to you guys, is which of any of the current 140 pounders has the best shot at him?

NO QUESTION!! Charlie Zivic. He could trim to Jr. welter and dazzle Pac with his left.

[RJJ4Life]

Only a defensive specialist with as much speed to match Pacquiao and with an excellent boxing mind could stand a chance.

Floyd Mayweather Jr. is that man.

I'm not saying Pretty Boy's would whoop him or even beat him. But this day and age, he is the only fighter who has at least a 50-50 chance.

[HyperBone]

A mover and slick counter puncher will give Pacman more problems so 140-down - Joan Guzman, Bradley, Marquez would all be tricky and could potentially outbox him. 147, this maybe too much for him size and skill wise, Mayweather, Mosley, Williams all beat him imo, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito are all much bigger

you still believe this shit?

i hope pac decides to face bradley just for the sake of proving 'skillset' guys wrong.

[Chinxkid]

NO QUESTION!! Charlie Zivic. He could trim to Jr. welter and dazzle Pac with his left.


My man! I was waiting for someone to come up with the right answer, JG. And I thought that would be an easy one. How ya been brother?

[john garfield]

My man! I was waiting for someone to come up with the right answer, JG. And I thought that would be an easy one. How ya been brother?

Don't know why the public's clamoring for PBF or JMM against Pac, when Charlie Zivic would be the biggest PPV.

The Zivic Express is pickin' up steam.

[stevebhoy87]

Timing and sense of distance. Marquez kept a very tight guard, and had the accuracy and timing to catch Pacquiao moving in and out. It requires a lot of patience and extremely good timing to work that gameplan, not to mention outstanding technical ability. I think only Marquez and Mayweather could work that gameplan. Mayweather may even take a more aggressive approach.

And in the end you are still running the risk of being outworked when you try to counter him.

I think he might do that as well, i'm not sure he can beat pacquiao just by countering him all night because as you say pacs workrate will impress the judges. I think floyd if he fought him would be quite aggressive when he needed to be, he look to draw manny on to the straight right a lot and follow that up more than he has been recently. Mayweather generally speaking when he is facing a man of similar physical stature is a far more aggressive fighter and we have still to see manny chin truly tested by a bigger man.

Thats the fight that needs to happen, the legacy fight for both men

[GPater11093]

who is Zivic never heard of him.

[GPater11093]

What a crowd pleaser too, right? A little excitement on fight night never hurt anybody. It is after all, partly show business. I wonder how much of a reduced role Roach will have to take now? And I wonder what effect that will have on Manny's showing in the ring. Can Michael Moorer really carry that ball for him?

i think Moorer can be good fr Pac as he is a switched on guy and takes in everything Roach says. But i do think Roach has afew years of still being able to train Pac but he might have to stop the pad work etc.. but i think Moorer could take over that.

He's got a Duran like passion for the sport if nothing else. And it hasn't dimmed in the slightest yet once he's made it to the top.

He got at least 12 million dollars for last nights fight. :scaredas::rofl

Do you mean like he loves fighting, obviously not the training side of it.

[quote=janitor;3955845]

Moore always struck me as a bright guy, but Freddie's a guru in the game. I don't really know how much his Parkinson's (isn't that what they're saying it is? It's not the Ali kind of Parkinson's, is it? Part Parkinson's/part dimentia?

i think Roach has parkinsons disease and Ali has syndorme. Syndrome means it only gets to a certain level and dosen tget worse. Whereas Disease is where it gets increasingly worse.

But i think he has a good few years left of training, he is so dedicated and lives for the game and taht will help him as he has something to aim for.

I think a prime Mayweather would beat him. It remains to be seen if Mayweather is still prime. Mayweather would fight off the back foot and force Manny to lead and draw him in to mistakes. Possibly. I think it's a tossup fight at this point. Pac is peaking at this time and this weight. I think JMM is slightly on the down side. I don't think he could handle Pac in a 3rd fight.

i agree FMJ would outbox Pac IMO but i would be interesting. I honestly cant see Pac winning and i rate FMJ real high and if Pac beat FMJ he would be in my top 10 ever

Also i still think Marquez can trouble Pac even if he is on the decline, i felt he won the first 2

I think Floyd Mayweather still has the ability to pull it off, but I say that with no real conviction. Its highly debatable as to how committed he still is to boxing, and Should he have to drop weight to face Pac, it may prove to be his undoing at this point. Although I am not a huge advocate of comparing results with common opponents, we have to acknowledge that Pac has managed to beat both of Floyd's last two opponents with far greater ease than he did. What does it mean? Perhaps nothing, but it shouldn't be overlooked either.

One thing is certain. If these two ever climb into the same ring, none of my money is going down.

FMJ always stays in shape. I will try to find out how sharp he is looking and how fit and what weight he is at just now. But i think he would still be in top shape and could probably make 140 if he really wanted too.

Moseley? no way hes 37, and if Oscar De La Hoya can't do it, Moseley defintley cannot.

Mosley is still a WW though ODLH drained himself down Mosley wouldnt do that. Also mosley has a lot more left and i s alot quicker than Oscar

age is just a number

[SuzieQ49]

Mosely has proven to be a better fighter than De La Hoya both from a head to head standpoint and from recent results

How so? Oscar De La Hoya clearly won there rematch back in 2003, Oscar never got embarrased in his prime TWICE by the same fighter...in fact Oscar in his prime only dropped very close decisions. So Moseley beat Margarito, big deal. Oscar would have beaten Margarito too last year if given the chance, Oscar took PBF to a split decision, and PBF is on a different level than margarito. Oscar has defintley proven himself the better head to head fighter, especially after watching the Moseley-Forrest fights where Sugar Shane proved he could not adapt.


Mosely is one of the few guys who Pac wouldn't overwhelm with speed and he hits harder than anyone Pac has fought.

Actually pac would overwhelm him. At 37, moseleys speed is not what it used to be, and manny that naturally lighter fighter is defintley going to be faster.

he hits harder than anyone Pac has fought.


Oscar was always the harder puncher than Moseley

[la-califa]

I think a prime Mayweather would beat him. It remains to be seen if Mayweather is still prime. Mayweather would fight off the back foot and force Manny to lead and draw him in to mistakes. Possibly. I think it's a tossup fight at this point. Pac is peaking at this time and this weight. I think JMM is slightly on the down side. I don't think he could handle Pac in a 3rd fight. Downslide?? Marquez looked sensational in his knockout of Juan Diaz! JMM looks sharp & will give Pac a great fight in Marquez-Pacquaio III.

[McGrain]

Oscar was always the harder puncher than Moseley

What did you make of Mosley's astonishing punching display versus Margarito?

[McGrain]

Downslide?? Marquez looked sensational in his knockout of Juan Diaz! JMM looks sharp & will give Pac a great fight in Marquez-Pacquaio III.


Marquez has looked like a world-beater just lately. I fear that 140 is to big for Marquez though...and once Mayweather has thrashed him, Floyd is bound to square of against Pac, with Marquez out in the cold.

By the time they come to settle business (And it does need to be settled IMO) Marquez will be 36 and will have absorbed a nasty beating and will be boxing ten pounds north of his best weight (Without the Manny-like physicality to absorb such a move). III is the fight i would most want to see right now if i could see any thing, but I don't expect it to be all that when/if it actually happens.

[natonic]

How so? Oscar De La Hoya clearly won there rematch back in 2003, Oscar never got embarrased in his prime TWICE by the same fighter...in fact Oscar in his prime only dropped very close decisions. So Moseley beat Margarito, big deal. Oscar would have beaten Margarito too last year if given the chance, Oscar took PBF to a split decision, and PBF is on a different level than margarito. Oscar has defintley proven himself the better head to head fighter, especially after watching the Moseley-Forrest fights where Sugar Shane proved he could not adapt.




Actually pac would overwhelm him. At 37, moseleys speed is not what it used to be, and manny that naturally lighter fighter is defintley going to be faster.




Oscar was always the harder puncher than Moseley

I disagree that Oscar clearly won the rematch. I thought Mosely won both fights with Oscar. Shane Mosely is a pretty big puncher and I also disagree that De La Hoya punched harder. I recall Oscar fighting a lot of distance fights.

The question of this post was who can beat Pacquiao? I listed a prime Mayweather. I didn't pick Mosely but I do think Mosely is too big for Manny . I just don't think the fight will happen. Oscar should have been too big for Manny but he was completely shot and couldn't pull the trigger. Based on what I've seen recently, Mosely isn't shot.

[natonic]

p.s. You're just picking and choosing. Forrest obviously had Mosely's number. I'd hardly call the fights embarassing though. Mosely never got stopped by a body shot. De La Hoya had the Tito fight in the bag but chose to run the last 4 rounds.

[la-califa]

Marquez has looked like a world-beater just lately. I fear that 140 is to big for Marquez though...and once Mayweather has thrashed him, Floyd is bound to square of against Pac, with Marquez out in the cold.

By the time they come to settle business (And it does need to be settled IMO) Marquez will be 36 and will have absorbed a nasty beating and will be boxing ten pounds north of his best weight (Without the Manny-like physicality to absorb such a move). III is the fight i would most want to see right now if i could see any thing, but I don't expect it to be all that when/if it actually happens. Wasn't there an agreement that the Marquez-Diaz winner would meet the Pacquaio-Hatton winner next?

[GPater11093]

yes i did hear that

[Adaptation]

Alot of people (me included) thought that Hatton had a good shot because he was a larger pressure fighter.

Some fighters run into trouble when they step up and some positivley thrive. Paquiao feasts on larger oponents because his advantages in speed are magnified and his power can do the rest. Like with Barbados Joe Walcott, Jack Dillon, Jack Dempsey etc the big guys just get in their own way.

Michael Moorer said before the fight that Paquiao hit like a heavyweight and we dismised that as exageration. Now it rings chillingly true.

Thats a sick quote from moorer! Especially that pac really gave a good argument for it!

[diamondDave]

All time I think that Alexis Arguello would have given Pacquiao hell because he was a tall fighter who knew how to box well from both the outside and inside.

Right now I think the obvious choices could beat Manny at 140 such as PBF, Marquez, Cotto, but I think there is somebody else out there who can give Manny a helluva fight at that weight. Paulie Malignaggi he has fast hands, fast feet, and if sticks and moves, Manny would have a lot of trouble finding him. Manny does his best when guys come straight to him. The way to beat him is to never let him on the inside, use the jab and straight right hands, keep him at distance, and tie up if he gets too close.

However, with that said ANYBODY who fights Manny at 140 is an underdog against him!!!!! But thats how I would train my fighter to fight him and those are some guys that I think could pull it off.