was sweet pea still a solid P4P fighter when ODLH beat him

[faisal]

i know he was lossing every single round when he fought hurtardo but i think he knew if he underestimated DLH the same way he'd get KO'd was sweet pea still 80-90% of what he was when he faced oscar

[GPater11093]

i thought Pea won so yes

[DINAMITA]

Nah. Pea was still one of the best fighters in the world and a p4p calibre guy, as evident in his performance against a rising star like Oscar, but he was still significantly poorer than in his heyday. Significantly. And the decline from that point was rapid. The Tito fight was hard to watch, and even the Pea of as late as '93 would have boxed rings round Trinidad.

[the cobra]

He was never as good at Welter as he was at his 135 prime to begin with, and he was noticeably fading around the time of that fight, but yes, he was still without question among the best P4P in the world during his fight with DLH.

That said, I had him pulling out the fight by a point or two.

[SuzieQ49]

Forget what others say in this thread...FACT remains Pernell Whitaker was # 1 p4p when Oscar De La Hoya beat him. this signafies it is a HUGE win for oscar. anytime u bump up a weight class and beat the Ring Magazine # 1 p4p fighter in the world is a HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT

[Gesta]

Forget what others say in this thread...FACT remains Pernell Whitaker was # 1 p4p when Oscar De La Hoya beat him. this signafies it is a HUGE win for oscar. anytime u bump up a weight class and beat the Ring Magazine # 1 p4p fighter in the world is a HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT


Agree.

:good:good:good

[Flea Man]

Good win for Oscar, even if I had Pea winning :good

Trinidad's victory on the other hand was a bit more shallow....Pea had started to slip then, even though he still gave a good account of himself

[sweet_scientist]

Forget what others say in this thread...FACT remains Pernell Whitaker was # 1 p4p when Oscar De La Hoya beat him. this signafies it is a HUGE win for oscar. anytime u bump up a weight class and beat the Ring Magazine # 1 p4p fighter in the world is a HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT


Actually, De la Hoya was the Ring no.1 at the end of 1996, so I'm guessing he would have been whilst the fight occurred as well, given his dominant performance against MAG in 1997. Can't imagine that Whitaker getting outboxed by Diosbelys Hurtado would have rocketed him back to the no.1 spot.

Roy Jones was second p4p at the end of 1996, but may have possibly dropped behind Pernell after the Montell Griffin DQ. I think I have heard someone say Jones retained the no.2 spot though.

So, Pea was either 2 or 3 p4p at the time.

Was Whitaker still a solid p4p fighter when ODLH beat him? Well, just look at his performance: Of course he was. That Whitaker would probably have beaten Ike and Tito around 1997 as well.

Whitaker had looked horrible for a good couple years before the DLH fight, but that was owing quite a bit to lifestyle issues (drugs, underestimating and undertraining for opponents etc). When he fought DLH he got all out of himself and looked as good as he had since about 1995.

Of course, Whitaker was still a significant step removed from the Chavez/McGirt days, and a couple of significant steps removed from the lightweight marvel that he was.

[ripcity]

As I recall the fight could have gone either way the official scores do not indacate how close the fight was. I don't rember how I scored it the last time I watched probbly a one or two point win for Whitaker. Was he at his best? no but he was still the best around.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Forget what others say in this thread...FACT remains Pernell Whitaker was # 1 p4p when Oscar De La Hoya beat him.



I'm sure they won't forget that accuracy is not always your strong point. :hey

[sweet_scientist]

I'm sure they won't forget that accuracy is not always your strong point. :hey

:lol:

[Bill Butcher]

i know he was lossing every single round when he fought hurtardo but i think he knew if he underestimated DLH the same way he'd get KO'd was sweet pea still 80-90% of what he was when he faced oscar

I think 80-90% is pushing it, Whitaker was still 1 of the best p4p fighters around but IMO left his true prime yrs in the ring in the Mcgirt rematch masterclass, he never seemed the same to me from his next fight onwards - Vasquez at 154 in 1995 (possibly late 94 but Id guess 95)

Whitaker pre Vasquez outboxes DLH in a clear 7-5/8-4 UD IMO - their actual fight in 97 makes it extremely hard for me to pick Oscar vs the prime version of Pea, I just dont see it.

[Bill Butcher]

Forget what others say in this thread...FACT remains Pernell Whitaker was # 1 p4p when Oscar De La Hoya beat him. this signafies it is a HUGE win for oscar. anytime u bump up a weight class and beat the Ring Magazine # 1 p4p fighter in the world is a HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT

It was a good accomplishment but Oscar should never have been at those lower weights to begin with & was a decent favourite vs Whitaker because he was so big + the FACT that despite some people still having Pea as no1, everyone knew he was on the slide at 33 & that Roy Jones had likely taken the top spot.
Whitaker kept his spot thru past performances & the fact that he was still unbeaten.... I thought the DLH-Pea fight was hard to score but to me looked even, either man could have got it, great ACHIEVEMENT by DLH but not so great PERFORMANCE all things considered.

:good

[Sweet Pea]

SS already covered my thoughts, so I'd just like to chime in that it's quite an exaggeration to say that Pea was getting shut out by Hurtado. He was losing, but it was definitely not a shut out. That's ridiculous. I think Merchant and some of the announcers even had him up, but that had more to do with the fact that they disliked Hurtado's negative style against one of their favorites than anything. He was not winning that fight, and he generally looked pretty bad during it, and that time period in general as SS already pointed out.

[Robbi]

Yeah, Whitaker was still right up there P4P as he was still pulling out wins prior to meeting De La Hoya. I thought he lost the fight. It was a nightmare to score at times. Not many clean punches landed by either fighter throughout the rounds. Whitaker, for the most part, seemed to be content on poking out the jab. He lacked variety IMO. Punch stats mean zero. Fights aren't scored on punch stats. Judges don't use them, so fans shouldn't use them.

[MrMarvel]

ODLH didn't beat Whitaker.

But, Whitaker was slipping by then.

[faisal]

it was a close fight i had it for oscar by 2 points

[Rattler]

Wait... he was losing every single round to Hurtado?

When did that happen?

[SuzieQ49]

I just checked. I have every Year end issue of Ring and KO magazine in the 1990s and they have pound for pound rankings....EXCEPT FOR 1996! ughh!! In 1995 year end issue, Pernell Whitaker is the overwhelming # 1 choice. In my end of the year December 1997 Issue of KO magazine Oscar moved into # 1, and Pernell was all the way back at # 6. KO magazine said it was his lowest ranking since 1989, and that he had come in 2nd to Roy Jones the year before.


I will make a thread on this......but it defintley appears to me Pernell Whitaker was at least #1 or # 2 when Oscar fought him, and judging from jones lost to montell griffin it HAD to be whitaker.

[DINAMITA]

I just checked. I have every Year end issue of Ring and KO magazine in the 1990s and they have pound for pound rankings....EXCEPT FOR 1996! ughh!! In 1995 year end issue, Pernell Whitaker is the overwhelming # 1 choice. In my end of the year December 1997 Issue of KO magazine Oscar moved into # 1, and Pernell was all the way back at # 6. KO magazine said it was his lowest ranking since 1989, and that he had come in 2nd to Roy Jones the year before.


I will make a thread on this......but it defintley appears to me Pernell Whitaker was at least #1 or # 2 when Oscar fought him, and judging from jones lost to montell griffin it HAD to be whitaker.

Judging by his performances only and discounting completely the numbers in a magazine, Whitaker was not the same fighter by 97 that he was even as late as 93, and a long way from his peak. He was like Oscar when Oscar fought Mayorga - still capable of a great performance but a long way from his best weight, his best form and his all-round peak displays, and the final decline was only just around the corner.

[SuzieQ49]

I disagree. When oscar fought mayorga, he was coming off a long layoff. Whitaker was not when he fought de la hoya. whitaker was recognized at/near the top of p4p in the whole world when oscar fought him, while oscar de la hoya was not even a top 10 contender when mayorga fought him. Whitaker was also undsiputed CHAMPION, while oscar was not champion when he fought mayorga. though whitaker was past his best, I still think whitaker would have beaten quarter or tito or any welter in the world in 1997...and Oscar deserves alot of credit for this win.

[sweet_scientist]

I just checked. I have every Year end issue of Ring and KO magazine in the 1990s and they have pound for pound rankings....EXCEPT FOR 1996! ughh!! In 1995 year end issue, Pernell Whitaker is the overwhelming # 1 choice. In my end of the year December 1997 Issue of KO magazine Oscar moved into # 1, and Pernell was all the way back at # 6. KO magazine said it was his lowest ranking since 1989, and that he had come in 2nd to Roy Jones the year before.


I will make a thread on this......but it defintley appears to me Pernell Whitaker was at least #1 or # 2 when Oscar fought him, and judging from jones lost to montell griffin it HAD to be whitaker.

No need to make a thread:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

In KO magazine, Whitaker was already dethroned from the p4p no.1 spot (and rightfully so imo) by 1995. Roy Jones was the no.1 there.

[sweet_scientist]

I disagree. When oscar fought mayorga, he was coming off a long layoff. Whitaker was not when he fought de la hoya. whitaker was recognized at/near the top of p4p in the whole world when oscar fought him, while oscar de la hoya was not even a top 10 contender when mayorga fought him. Whitaker was also undsiputed CHAMPION, while oscar was not champion when he fought mayorga. though whitaker was past his best, I still think whitaker would have beaten quarter or tito or any welter in the world in 1997...and Oscar deserves alot of credit for this win.

With the performance he gave against Oscar I would agree he was still up there amongst the best p4p, but prior to the fight, there wasn't really much evidence for it. Struggles with Rivera and Hurtado indicated that he had radically declined. Based off of those fights, I would have favoured Ike, Tito and DLH to beat him. And I'd still have Roy Jones ahead of him, given that Montell was a better fighter than Hurtado, and Montell still didn't outbox Roy like Hurtado outboxed Pea. Montell more or less broke even with Roy before Roy was on the verge of Ko'ing him.

[Calroid]

Forget what others say in this thread...FACT remains Pernell Whitaker was # 1 p4p when Oscar De La Hoya beat him. this signafies it is a HUGE win for oscar. anytime u bump up a weight class and beat the Ring Magazine # 1 p4p fighter in the world is a HELL OF AN ACCOMPLISHMENT

Agree!

[Calroid]

I'm sure they won't forget that accuracy is not always your strong point. :hey

Actually you might want to check into it. Sarcasm aside.

He is 100% right.:yep

[Calroid]

No need to make a thread:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

In KO magazine, Whitaker was already dethroned from the p4p no.1 spot (and rightfully so imo) by 1995. Roy Jones was the no.1 there.


Not according to The Ring Magazine. Their fight was for P4P No1. I have the original magazines.

[sweet_scientist]

Not according to The Ring Magazine. Their fight was for P4P No1. I have the original magazines.

It might have been for the no.1 in virtue of DLH being no.1 mate, not because Whitaker was the no.1 p4p. I'm pretty sure Whitaker was no.3 at the time of the DLH fight.

If you can show me an end of year 1996 or 1997 Ring mag that has Whitaker no.1 then all well and good.

[sweet_scientist]

It might have been for the no.1 in virtue of DLH being no.1 mate, not because Whitaker was the no.1 p4p. I'm pretty sure Whitaker was no.3 at the time of the DLH fight.

If you can show me an end of year 1996 or 1997 Ring mag that has Whitaker no.1 then all well and good.

Knowing that DLH was a 3-1 favourite before the fight, I will be quite surprised if you come through with proof that Pea was numero uno. I'll wait and see :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

I just checked. I have every Year end issue of Ring and KO magazine in the 1990s and they have pound for pound rankings....EXCEPT FOR 1996! ughh!! In 1995 year end issue, Pernell Whitaker is the overwhelming # 1 choice. In my end of the year December 1997 Issue of KO magazine Oscar moved into # 1, and Pernell was all the way back at # 6. KO magazine said it was his lowest ranking since 1989, and that he had come in 2nd to Roy Jones the year before.


Whitaker was rated 3 in the Ring at the time of the Oscar fight and (i think) 4 in KO. This debate has come up before. I know he was 3 in Ring.


End of year does not denote any mid-year changes the last time I looked. A few months ago someone was saying that Buster Mathis wasn't top 10 in Ring when Frazier beat him. All's they did was see The Big Blob's absence for two consecutive years. However, Buster appeared for just a month or two before the fight with Joe (at Number 10), so any end-of-year internet lists are misleading.


I will make a thread on this......but it defintley appears to me Pernell Whitaker was at least #1 or # 2 when Oscar fought him, and judging from jones lost to montell griffin it HAD to be whitaker.


He was 3.

[My dinner with Conteh]

It might have been for the no.1 in virtue of DLH being no.1 mate, not because Whitaker was the no.1 p4p. I'm pretty sure Whitaker was no.3 at the time of the DLH fight.


This is true. End of year lists don't matter. It was built as the pfp title (which answers the thread question) but Oscar had that title.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Actually you might want to check into it. Sarcasm aside.

He is 100% right.:yep


No he isn't and now neither are you. ;)

[sweet_scientist]

No he isn't and now neither are you. ;)

:lol:

[PowerPuncher]

Whitaker was also undsiputed CHAMPION.

No he wasnt

PS the title of the thread is wrong Oscar didn't beat Whitaker, the judges robbed Sweet Pea :yep

[red cobra]

In a word, no.