Lou Amber's vs Aaron Pryor

[robert ungurean]

Lets say at a catch weight of 138.
Schedualed for 15
Who takes it.

[robert ungurean]

HMMM
John L vs Butterbean gets 21 responses but this none.
Wonder what this forum is turning into.

[MrMarvel]

Pryor.

[robert ungurean]

Im takin Ambers by way of UD.
I think he fought much greater fighter's. I think he's tougher. He's an all around better fighter in my book. Not to mention all his experiance.

[PowerPuncher]

Pryor all day, a level above

[robert ungurean]

Pryor all day, a level above
U must be joking.
Look up Amber's record.:patsch

[Dempsey1238]

Amber imo.

[robert ungurean]

I believe there is a lack of Amber education on the forum.

[Rattler]

Ambers is a solid champ... good jab and a tough inside fighter, but Aaron Pryor was special.

Pryor uses his height and reach advantage to good effect here against the mite-ish Ambers.

Pryor is the more skilled fighter and possessed as much, if not more, fighting spirit than Ambers.

All told, Pryor should win : tko - 11

[robert ungurean]

Ambers is a solid champ... good jab and a tough inside fighter, but Aaron Pryor was special.

Pryor uses his height and reach advantage to good effect here against the mite-ish Ambers.

Pryor is the more skilled fighter and possessed as much, if not more, fighting spirit than Ambers.

All told, Pryor should win : tko - 11
I think Pryor had more athleticism but I think Ambers had more skill.

[Rattler]

I think Pryor had more athleticism but I think Ambers had more skill.

Ambers may be the more traditionally skilled fighter, but Pryor's style and offensive attack is daunting.

Alexis Arguello is as solid as they come and even he was overwhelmed.

[robert ungurean]

Ambers may be the more traditionally skilled fighter, but Pryor's style and offensive attack is daunting.

Alexis Arguello is as solid as they come and even he was overwhelmed.
I agree. But Arguello was also at the end of his rope and we still dont know how much Pryors bottle played in his victory.
I just see Ambers toughness and experience swinging the tide in this one.
By Ambers own recolection he claims 238 fights with 8 losses,while the official is 88 6 8.

[PowerPuncher]

U must be joking.
Look up Amber's record.:patsch

I judge by what I see of fighters fighting, not just their record and Pryor looks far superior on film. Ambers makes it a tough 1 but loses comprehensively

[PowerPuncher]

By Ambers own recolection he claims 238 fights with 8 losses,while the official is 88 6 8.

Pryor officially had 243wins, 17losses but its not about quantity

[red cobra]

Pryor too much for Ambers.

[Stonehands89]

Pryor was a whirling dervish. Pryor's got size on him, too but Ambers has far more experience against good and great opposition. Heart? Pryor would go down and get up, Ambers did too -far more often. In '35, Zivic broke his jaw and the 7th and Lou finished the fight anyway and won. It's crazy to question this man's heart. Skill? Lou. Chin? Gotta go with Lou.

The Armstrong factor. Lou had a tough time with Hank but was hanging tough. Armstrong is Pryor times a factor of about three.

Pryor is overrated. His whole reputation is based on two things: his two defeats of Arguello (who had the perfect style to magnify the effectivness of Pryor's), and the common confusion between "talent/athleticism" and "skill". Pryor was an athlete. Tough to fight, but always vulnerable to technicians with a more athleticism than the Explosive Thin Man.

When in doubt, go with experienced technicians. That's Ambers.

[PowerPuncher]

Armstrong is Pryor times a factor of about three.

Pryor is overrated. His whole reputation is based on two things: his two defeats of Arguello (who had the perfect style to magnify the effectivness of Pryor's), and the common confusion between "talent/athleticism" and "skill". Pryor was an athlete. Tough to fight, but always vulnerable to technicians with a more athleticism than the Explosive Thin Man.

When in doubt, go with experienced technicians. That's Ambers.

Armstrong times 3? Except Pryor is bigger, harder hitter, faster, more athletic, better boxer, a combination thrower that was just as relentless?

Fighters with greater athletic beat fighters with less athletic ability all else being equal, and the best of all time are athletically the best ie Ali, Robinson, Tyson, Jones, Mayweather etc etc etc

[MrMarvel]

Herny Armstrong beat Ambers going away twice. Ambers had his moments, but it wasn't close either time. Canzoneri, nowhere near the welterweight competitor Pryor was, beat Ambers rather handily the time they met when Cazoneri still had something left, and this was still at the tail end. Ambers beat Canzoneri twice after that, but Canzoneri was done. Lew Jenkins, a fighter many other fights had little problem with, bounced Ambers off the canvas twice.

Ambers was good, but let's not get carried away. Pryor would have owned him.

[Stonehands89]

Armstrong times 3? Except Pryor is bigger, harder hitter, faster, more athletic, better boxer, a combination thrower that was just as relentless?
You don't know much about Armstrong and overrate Pryor.

Fighters with greater athletic beat fighters with less athletic ability all else being equal, and the best of all time are athletically the best ie Ali, Robinson, Tyson, Jones, Mayweather etc etc etc
Your point is convoluted. The last three you mentioned are not elite. Many purists do not put any HW in the top 10 all time. Even so, Half of your first two had a style squarely rooted in technique.

[Stonehands89]

Herny Armstrong beat Ambers going away twice. Ambers had his moments, but it wasn't close either time. Canzoneri, nowhere near the welterweight competitor Pryor was, beat Ambers rather handily the time they met when Cazoneri still had something left, and this was still at the tail end. Ambers beat Canzoneri twice after that, but Canzoneri was done. Lew Jenkins, a fighter many other fights had little problem with, bounced Ambers off the canvas twice.

Ambers was good, but let's not get carried away. Pryor would have owned him.
You don't know much about Canzoneri and overrate Pryor.

Canzoneri was one of the great fighters of the past 50 years. He is far and away over Pryor on any P4P list worth more than a nickel. Lew Jenkins burned out quickly because he didn't train worth a damn and fell apart almost immediately after getting the LW title. He was, by his own admittance, a headcase. But when he was on, boy, he carried wrecking balls into the ring. Everyone had to be careful with the "Living Death". You never knew when he might turn up in the ring not boozed up.

[MrMarvel]

You don't know much about Canzoneri and overrate Pryor.

Canzoneri was one of the great fighters of the past 50 years. He is far and away over Pryor on any P4P list worth more than a nickel. Lew Jenkins burned out quickly because he didn't train worth a damn and fell apart almost immediately after getting the LW title. He was, by his own admittance, a headcase. But when he was on, boy, he carried wrecking balls into the ring. Everyone had to be careful with the "Living Death". You never knew when he might turn up in the ring not boozed up.

I know a lot about Canzoneri. I know he was good enough to fight at a high level for years beyond his natural weight. But by the time he faced Ambers the first time he was fading, yet he gave Ambers a boxing lesson. He even put Ambers on the seat of his pants a few times. When he lost to Ambers, he was past it. Ambers wuold never get by a prime Canzoneri, which means he would never get by a prime Pryor.

It's almost a sure thing that I know a lot more about Canzoneri, Ambers, and the rest than you do. I think that's pretty clear from your last two posts. I mean, Lew Jenkins entered the ring against Ambers with a record of 45-16-4, with four of those defeats coming inside the distance. It wasn't like he was some genius and stopped training.

[Stonehands89]

I know a lot about Canzoneri. I know he was good enough to fight at a high level for years beyond his natural weight.
Wrong. His natural weight was lightweight. Fighting in over-the-weight matches should not be factored in.

But by the time he faced Ambers the first time he was fading, yet he gave Ambers a boxing lesson. He even put Ambers on the seat of his pants a few times. When he lost to Ambers, he was past it.
I'd bet my house that your knowledge of Canzoneri springs from boxrec. Your previous post is a regurgitation of simple boxrec tidbits. And this one makes me suspicious.

Ambers wuold never get by a prime Canzoneri, which means he would never get by a prime Pryor.
... and this is the clincher. Canzoneri is a far cry from Pryor. And he is far greater. And if you don't know that, then I must question how much you know. By the way, you also stated that Canzoneri was "no where near the welterweight competitor Pryor was". Canzoneri was a lightweight. You need to sharpen up on guys from that era because it is clear to me that you chose Pryor based on familiarity with color film.

It's almost a sure thing that I know a lot more about Canzoneri, Ambers, and the rest than you do.
...

I think that's pretty clear from your last two posts. I mean, Lew Jenkins entered the ring against Ambers with a record of 45-16-4, with four of those defeats coming inside the distance. It wasn't like he was some genius and stopped training.
Boxrec. You're hung up or records.

Correction: you know very little about Canzoneri, overrate Pryor, and know nothing about Jenkins.

[MrMarvel]

I'd bet my house that your knowledge of Canzoneri springs from boxrec.

Are you going to make an argument or just pretend you know my method?

How many films of Canzoneri have you seen?

[Bummy Davis]

I loved Pryor but he was not in as deep as Ambers...Ambers by a UD

[Stonehands89]

Are you going to make an argument or just pretend you know my method?

How many films of Canzoneri have you seen?
....

The arguments presented were more than enough here. But there was really no need to expend even that effort. All that had to be done was to quote this:
Canzoneri, nowhere near the welterweight competitor Pryor was....
...and leave it there.

[MrMarvel]

I thought that would have been sufficient, too. So why are we arguing?

[Stonehands89]

! Now that's some good wit.

Fair enough.