The story of Tyson and Foreman

[Silver]

hear this story alot, that tyson was scared to fight and old foreman in the early 90's. not saying its not true but if the fight had happen, its hard to think the tyson wouldnt win. foreman, while made an impressive comeback was still fat and old. even in beating moorer, he lost just about every round and was losing badly till he caught moorer. Did tyson doubt himself that much?

[Jaws]

I would like to see some SOLID evidence produced of this as well.

As far as I'm concerned, it's an urban boxing myth.

[Silver]

again, its not impossible, there are lot of strange thigns invovled in boxing but it dosent make that much sense.

[FromWithin]

I would like to see some SOLID evidence produced of this as well.

As far as I'm concerned, it's an urban boxing myth.

It is not a urban myth. Tyson was once told by Cus that no swarmer will ever beat George Foreman and it probably sticked in his mind. George Foreman would not be intimidated like most Tyson's opponent are.

Here's and article I just found but didn't read yet about this.

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[FromWithin]

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, Fuckin' Tyson is scared shitless of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that Fuckin' animal, if you love the motherfucker so much, you fight him!'"


Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!


Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.


Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news.


It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds. Tyson just has nothing to beat Foreman with; his edge in hand speed would have been a non-factor. He can't beat him by backing away, and he would have gotten his head handed to him if he brought the fight to Foreman. In addition, Foreman was bigger, stronger, tougher and hit harder. Not to mention the fact that Foreman had a better chin and no fear or doubt, unlike Tyson, who was full of fear and self-doubt.




Think about it, Foreman-Tyson was the biggest fight that could have been made in 1990. Foreman was perceived to be an easy fight for Tyson, and it would have been his biggest payday to date. There can only be one reason why Tyson didn't fight Foreman, and that's because he feared losing to him.
I haven't a morsel of a doubt that Tyson just doesn't match up with Foreman, and he knows it. If Tyson of 1990 was afraid of an old Foreman, think how petrified he would of been of a prime Foreman, the one who stared down both Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali in 1973 and 1974.

:deal

[Silver]

It is not a urban myth. Tyson was once told by Cus that no swarmer will ever beat George Foreman and it probably sticked in his mind. George Foreman would not be intimidated like most Tyson's opponent are.

Here's and article I just found but didn't read yet about this.

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but you not talking about a prime foreman, you're talking about an old foreman, the same one who lost to morrison. and that imtimdation stuff is so over done

[FromWithin]

but you not talking about a prime foreman, you're talking about an old foreman, the same one who lost to morrison. and that imtimdation stuff is so over done

:huh You did talk about the old Foreman too :?

[Silver]

:huh You did talk about the old Foreman too :?
nah you talking about cus damato. thats means this the perception along time ago but the 90's foreman was much more beatable. all you have to do is look at the guys foreman was fighting.

[FromWithin]

nah you talking about cus damato. thats means this the perception along time ago but the 90's foreman was much more beatable. all you have to do is look at the guys foreman was fighting.

I know ;) you should read the article it explains everything.

[lefthook31]

Yeah after watching him get shalacked by chinny Moorer for 10 rounds and get outboxed by the great Tommy Morrison, Im sure Tyson was losing sleep over a Foreman fight. :-(
The fight was proposed during Tysons comeback but the two ego maniacs King and Arum couldnt come to terms.

[Jaws]

Sorry, that is not convincing to me. At all.

All that is, is HERESAY. Nothing more. There is so much bullshit and talk like that in boxing.

If that is the best evidence that can be found-----Urban myth.

The last two paragraphs of boxing analysis of Tyson/Foreman in that essay is an absolute joke. It's juvenile analysis at best. In fact, it proves to me that the essay is biased, and kills its credibility.

I see nothing in Comeback Foreman's fights that show he would beat Tyson.

[Rattler]

Yes, Tyson was scared of fighting Foreman.

It's common knowledge.

[Jaws]

It's "common knowledge" with nothing to back it up.

I think the more plausible explanation is it's a result of all of the trash talk Foreman said about Tyson back then to try to goat him into a fight, to cash in on some of the mega dollars that only a Tyson fight brings. And then it took off from that since the fight never happened.

[ironchamp]

Tyson really had nothing to gain in this fight.

Remember Holyfield himself was criticeized for taking this fight. George Foreman was not seen as a legitimate contender until he gave Evander a harder than expected fight. But even then, he lost a pretty clear decision.

For Tyson to have taken the fight, it would mean that he would have to blow off the Ruddock fights which were far more relevant to the Heavyweight division than a fight with Foreman. Things to also consider:

1. Don King repped Mike Tyson. Bob Arum repped George Foreman. Breakdowns in negotations happen all the time.

2. Don King and Mike Tyson was having a falling out with HBO in 1990 and he subsequently signed with Showtime. George Foreman of course was an HBO fighter back then.

[Bokaj]

Tyson really had nothing to gain in this fight.

Remember Holyfield himself was criticeized for taking this fight. George Foreman was not seen as a legitimate contender until he gave Evander a harder than expected fight. But even then, he lost a pretty clear decision.



Tyson had a lot of money to gain in this fight, which is exactly why Holyfield took it. Foreman meant a huge pay-day while not looking like a real threat. Not many passes up on such an opportunity. I would suggest this is more or less the reason why Tyson took on Holyfield in 1996. Holyfield certainly wasn't seen as the most dangerous challenger at that point, but he meant a lot of money. Tyson seemed to like that just fine then.

[TheGreatA]

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[UpWithEvil]

Boy, George was layin' down the law on mumblemouth Mike, I don't blame Tyson for tucking tail and running.

[Swann]

Was Mike Tyson scared of George Foreman before or after Foreman got his face disfigured by Alex Stewart and shut out by Tommy Morrison?

[UpWithEvil]

Was Mike Tyson scared of George Foreman before or after Foreman got his face disfigured by Alex Stewart and shut out by Tommy Morrison?

I'm pretty sure it was after Mike got his ass soundly defeated by Boobster Douglas.

[Jear]

Dundee and Foreman pursued this fight and called Tyson out for years with no joy. Was probably the biggest money fight on offer at the time as Holy was yet to convince many he was a genuine threat at heavy. I dont know that Tyson was scared but he and his handlers knew it was a bad stylistic match for him. Tyson has to come at George unlike Moorer, Holy or Morrison who have been given as examples of why Tyson shouldnt be concerned about George.

I think Mike could beat old Foreman, but I can see that it wasnt a good fight for him to take.

[ironchamp]

Tyson had a lot of money to gain in this fight, which is exactly why Holyfield took it. Foreman meant a huge pay-day while not looking like a real threat. Not many passes up on such an opportunity. I would suggest this is more or less the reason why Tyson took on Holyfield in 1996. Holyfield certainly wasn't seen as the most dangerous challenger at that point, but he meant a lot of money. Tyson seemed to like that just fine then.

It would have been a decent payday but remember this:

You have egomaniac promoter in Bob Arum and Don King who neither would concede a nickel they feel is owed to their meal ticket. You also have Showtime vs. HBO issue to deal with. Remember Tyson's last fight on HBO was against Alex Stewart during which his camp had a falling out with HBO. George Foreman fought on HBO. Mike Tyson fought on Showtime. This was not a legacy fight that needed to happen. The networks would have had a multitude of issues and given HBO's dominance in the sport of boxing and Tyson and King's reluctance to appear on HBO I seriously doubt HBO would have conceded to Showtime to make this fight.

In addition you had a public that would not have bought a Foreman victory as a likely scenario. I mean Holyfield was a lightly regarded Heavyweight champion at that time who never got his proper due; but even his detractors gave him the benefit of the doubt over George Foreman. Mike Tyson back then had massive support. He had a legion of fans, sportswriters and experts that unanimously gave Tyson the distinction as the best fighter in the world despite the Douglas loss. So the notion that Foreman would have been viewed as a legitimate threat at that time period is really preposterous. The fight would have been a novelty and nothing more. Had Tyson beaten him back then it would have been a footnote. But he opted for a bigger challenge in Ruddock and fought him 1 month before Evander fought Big George.

Incidentally Tyson-Ruddock did better than Holyfield-Foreman (albeit slightly) in terms of PPV sales and the live gate making the money issue a little less significant.

At the end of it all it was never a career defining fight.

You know, a decade from now some hack writer is going to claim that Vitaly Klitschko was scared shitless of Hashim Rahman. Even though we know that right now that is not the case, you'll have people swearing up and down that Rahman scared him into retirement. Lets just hope they are a little more reasonable than some people are on this issue.

[AnthonyJ74]

Was Mike Tyson scared of George Foreman before or after Foreman got his face disfigured by Alex Stewart and shut out by Tommy Morrison?

haha.....George was just after a big money fight, and Tyson, being the champion at the time and the "baddest man on the planet," represented the most lucrative fight for a comebacking George who was pretty short on funds. I'm sure Foreman realized that he couldn't beat Tyson, but he probably figured that earning mega-millions was worth getting pounded!

[AnthonyJ74]

It's "common knowledge" with nothing to back it up.

I think the more plausible explanation is it's a result of all of the trash talk Foreman said about Tyson back then to try to goat him into a fight, to cash in on some of the mega dollars that only a Tyson fight brings. And then it took off from that since the fight never happened.

Bingo!!!

[AnthonyJ74]

Tyson really had nothing to gain in this fight.

Remember Holyfield himself was criticeized for taking this fight. George Foreman was not seen as a legitimate contender until he gave Evander a harder than expected fight. But even then, he lost a pretty clear decision.

For Tyson to have taken the fight, it would mean that he would have to blow off the Ruddock fights which were far more relevant to the Heavyweight division than a fight with Foreman. Things to also consider:

1. Don King repped Mike Tyson. Bob Arum repped George Foreman. Breakdowns in negotations happen all the time.

2. Don King and Mike Tyson was having a falling out with HBO in 1990 and he subsequently signed with Showtime. George Foreman of course was an HBO fighter back then.

Foreman was all about greed and money. He should have proved that he was a contender before fighting for the heavyweight championship.

[AnthonyJ74]

Dundee and Foreman pursued this fight and called Tyson out for years with no joy. Was probably the biggest money fight on offer at the time as Holy was yet to convince many he was a genuine threat at heavy. I dont know that Tyson was scared but he and his handlers knew it was a bad stylistic match for him. Tyson has to come at George unlike Moorer, Holy or Morrison who have been given as examples of why Tyson shouldnt be concerned about George.

I think Mike could beat old Foreman, but I can see that it wasnt a good fight for him to take.

Foreman and co. were hoping for a free shot. All George had to do was fight and beat a legitimate contender to get a shot at Tyson. But Foreman instead chose to make a lot of noise about fighting Tyson and how he would destroy Tyson all the while feasting on the usual schmear cases and tomato cans. Even Bill Cayton commented once about how Foreman needed to face a serious contender in order to prove his merit as a contender and/or title challenger. But George was just hoping for a free shot!

[Arka]

Well,it seems obvious,that the fight wouldn't have gone the distance.
At least one promoter was going to lose his cash cow.

[Bokaj]

It would have been a decent payday but remember this:

You have egomaniac promoter in Bob Arum and Don King who neither would concede a nickel they feel is owed to their meal ticket. You also have Showtime vs. HBO issue to deal with. Remember Tyson's last fight on HBO was against Alex Stewart during which his camp had a falling out with HBO. George Foreman fought on HBO. Mike Tyson fought on Showtime. This was not a legacy fight that needed to happen. The networks would have had a multitude of issues and given HBO's dominance in the sport of boxing and Tyson and King's reluctance to appear on HBO I seriously doubt HBO would have conceded to Showtime to make this fight.

In addition you had a public that would not have bought a Foreman victory as a likely scenario. I mean Holyfield was a lightly regarded Heavyweight champion at that time who never got his proper due; but even his detractors gave him the benefit of the doubt over George Foreman. Mike Tyson back then had massive support. He had a legion of fans, sportswriters and experts that unanimously gave Tyson the distinction as the best fighter in the world despite the Douglas loss. So the notion that Foreman would have been viewed as a legitimate threat at that time period is really preposterous. The fight would have been a novelty and nothing more. Had Tyson beaten him back then it would have been a footnote. But he opted for a bigger challenge in Ruddock and fought him 1 month before Evander fought Big George.

Incidentally Tyson-Ruddock did better than Holyfield-Foreman (albeit slightly) in terms of PPV sales and the live gate making the money issue a little less significant.

At the end of it all it was never a career defining fight.

You know, a decade from now some hack writer is going to claim that Vitaly Klitschko was scared shitless of Hashim Rahman. Even though we know that right now that is not the case, you'll have people swearing up and down that Rahman scared him into retirement. Lets just hope they are a little more reasonable than some people are on this issue.

Yeah, you never know in boxing why things never happen or why they do, and Foreman would be regarded mainly as a novelty against Tyson, but one that would draw money. That he continued to get title shot after title shot without beating a serious opponent testifies to this.

And just because he should have been seen as such a low threat it should have been even more tempting to cash in on him. It's not like Holyfield, Morrison and Moorer didn't have more serious contenders out there, but they opted for the easy pay-day. Why Tyson didn't is of course only up to speculation, but it lends some credence to the theory that he wanted no part of him. As you said there could be a million other reasons for why the fight never happened, but it makes one wonder a bit.

[HomicideHenry]

Tyson never fought Lewis, Moorer, Bowe, or Mercer either during that time period.

[lefthook31]

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After defeating Moe Larry and Curly, Im sure all the name heavyweights were shaking in their boots by Foreman. This footage was before Tyson went to prison, and Foreman wound up getting ranked and fought Holyfield for the title. We know what happened after that. Arum started promoting Foreman well after this and was responsible for his third comeback to fight Moorer. Thats when the Tyson fight was looking like a good possibility. Had Tyson not gone to prison, he probably would have faced Foreman had he beaten Holyfield for the title in 90.

[dmille]

Early foes in George's comeback

1 Kenny Stand
2 Willie Fall
3 Izzy Breethin

[mr. magoo]

It's "common knowledge" with nothing to back it up.

I think the more plausible explanation is it's a result of all of the trash talk Foreman said about Tyson back then to try to goat him into a fight, to cash in on some of the mega dollars that only a Tyson fight brings. And then it took off from that since the fight never happened.

Foreman was not known for trash talking or accusing people of being scared of him. During his comeback he was actually well mannered and maintained a decent public image.

[Vantage_West]

Tyson had a lot of money to gain in this fight, which is exactly why Holyfield took it. Foreman meant a huge pay-day while not looking like a real threat. Not many passes up on such an opportunity. I would suggest this is more or less the reason why Tyson took on Holyfield in 1996. Holyfield certainly wasn't seen as the most dangerous challenger at that point, but he meant a lot of money. Tyson seemed to like that just fine then.
true but the difference between paydays for evander compared to mike was much bigger. you could sell a tyson fight easily evander even tho he sold well did need a bit of publicity.

tyson could make megabucks against anyone, evander fought for an easier money fight in his very tough title reign.

tyson had no need for foreman so why fight him? 2 big punchers? well yeah but the 90's were stacked with punchers, ruddock being the one mike would of been fighting around the time of a foreman fight. who is higher ranked and a better fighter in general.

[Bokaj]

true but the difference between paydays for evander compared to mike was much bigger. you could sell a tyson fight easily evander even tho he sold well did need a bit of publicity.

tyson could make megabucks against anyone, evander fought for an easier money fight in his very tough title reign.

tyson had no need for foreman so why fight him? 2 big punchers? well yeah but the 90's were stacked with punchers, ruddock being the one mike would of been fighting around the time of a foreman fight. who is higher ranked and a better fighter in general.

True, but I wouldn't be surprised if Foreman would have been the biggest payday out there, and since he looked such easy meat on paper one would think that this would be very tempting to cash in on.

[Silver]

some good feedback, here whether or not tyson didnt want the fight, its hard to imagine any other outcome then a tyson ko voctiry but maybe tyon doubted himself.

[mr. magoo]

True, but I wouldn't be surprised if Foreman would have been the biggest payday out there, and since he looked such easy meat on paper one would think that this would be very tempting to cash in on.


Agreed,

Foreman was going to be a hot ticket item no matter who he fought. Hell, his fight with Cooney attracted more revenue than Hagler - Hearns did, just 5 years earlier. The Foreman vs Holyfield fight, set some records of its own at the time. If Tyson had gotten in the ring with George Foreman, it no doubt would have been one of the most viewed sporting events ever.

[Jaws]

Foreman was not known for trash talking or accusing people of being scared of him. During his comeback he was actually well mannered and maintained a decent public image.

I didn't mean "trash talk" that maliciously. I was talking about the things Foreman was saying such as in the videos posted in this thread--"Tyson is running from me" etc. Did not mean to imply he didn't maintain a good image.

[anut]

Old foreman would loose to tyson..........foreman was way too slow........................the fight would look like tyson/bonecrusher......1973 version of foreman different story....

[ironchamp]

Agreed,

Foreman was going to be a hot ticket item no matter who he fought. Hell, his fight with Cooney attracted more revenue than Hagler - Hearns did, just 5 years earlier. The Foreman vs Holyfield fight, set some records of its own at the time. If Tyson had gotten in the ring with George Foreman, it no doubt would have been one of the most viewed sporting events ever.


It probably would have but lets not forget that Tyson Ruddock had sold more PPVs than Holyfield Foreman.

[fists of fury]

You know, I've often wondered why George chose to come back when he did.

George is no dummy. He claims he came back to fund his youth centre, which is no doubt part of it, but I've often wondered if he came back because he honestly thought he could beat Tyson.

Why didn't he come back during the Holmes era? Surely he could have, around '83 or '84? Why wait until a short, squat guy who no doubt reminded him of Frazier to come along?

Remember, all through his comeback, he claimed "I want Tyson!" Almost from the start he was saying this. I remember reading a KO interview sometime in '87 when George was only something like 7-0, and he was very bullish about his chances with Tyson even then.

Of course, wanting Tyson and actually fighting him are two very different things, but George was seemingly very confident about his chances.
Or maybe he just wanted a great payday.

[Bokaj]

Of course, wanting Tyson and actually fighting him are two very different things, but George was seemingly very confident about his chances.
Or maybe he just wanted a great payday.

Both, I'd wager.

[KERRIGAN]

The Foreman of the Moorer fight, loses badly to Tyson, but the Foreman of the Holyfield fight is in with a real chance, even though I would favour Tyson to win.

[ironchamp]

Yeah, you never know in boxing why things never happen or why they do, and Foreman would be regarded mainly as a novelty against Tyson, but one that would draw money. That he continued to get title shot after title shot without beating a serious opponent testifies to this.

And just because he should have been seen as such a low threat it should have been even more tempting to cash in on him. It's not like Holyfield, Morrison and Moorer didn't have more serious contenders out there, but they opted for the easy pay-day. Why Tyson didn't is of course only up to speculation, but it lends some credence to the theory that he wanted no part of him. As you said there could be a million other reasons for why the fight never happened, but it makes one wonder a bit.

It would have been easy to cash in on him if you're a fighter with little opportunity for large payday's elsewhere but Tyson could have made money fighting literally anyone. Holyfield, Morrison and Moorer had serious contenders out there but they cashed in because

A. Other contenders may not have pulled in the same kind of money that the Foreman fight helped pull in.

B. They were all HBO fighters making the task a far simpler.

Boxing is a business and its not as simple as I want to fight you and its done. The networks are involved, Promoters are involved, Lawyers are involved and it can be difficult process if you consider the circumstances.

This is probably a fight that Tyson would have taken had he beaten Holyfield and had become champion but it wouldn't have added depth to Tyson's resume if he beat Foreman.

[PetethePrince]

It probably would have but lets not forget that Tyson Ruddock had sold more PPVs than Holyfield Foreman.

That's because Tyson was a bigger attraction than Holyfield. Tyson vs Foreman would be a huge fight. Zero doubt.

Tyson wanted no part of Foreman, I think. And it's documented it's just a question of whether you believe or not. He didn't duck him as George wasn't legitimate. But boxing is a business, and in terms of a pay day he was made legitimate by the public. Therefore, it's easy to conclude that Mike saw it as a high risk fight. He was steamrolling everybody. Why not put the old man out of his misery and take a huge payday. It would have probably been one of the biggest if not biggest paydays Tyson got.

[ironchamp]

That's because Tyson was a bigger attraction than Holyfield. Tyson vs Foreman would be a huge fight. Zero doubt.

Tyson wanted no part of Foreman, I think. And it's documented it's just a question of whether you believe or not. He didn't duck him as George wasn't legitimate. But boxing is a business, and in terms of a pay day he was made legitimate by the public. Therefore, it's easy to conclude that Mike saw it as a high risk fight. He was steamrolling everybody. Why not put the old man out of his misery and take a huge payday. It would have probably been one of the biggest if not biggest paydays Tyson got.


Again, Don King who invariably would want options from George in order for the fight to be made. Bob Arum simply wouldn't allow that.

HBO vs. Showtime. Tyson signed with Showtime. Foreman was with HBO. HBO was the major player they would never want to concede to Showtime.

The numbers would not have been high as you think primarily because there was no title on the line and and the public wouldn't have bought a Foreman victory as plausible. Don't get me wrong the number probably would have been big but Tyson had a $30 million dollar payday in the pipeline with Evander Holyfield not to mention he was being accused of ducking Ruddock during that time period. He simply had to take care of business first. Foreman was simply not a priority.

[MAG1965]

Yeah after watching him get shalacked by chinny Moorer for 10 rounds and get outboxed by the great Tommy Morrison, Im sure Tyson was losing sleep over a Foreman fight. :-(
The fight was proposed during Tysons comeback but the two ego maniacs King and Arum couldnt come to terms.I always thought Tyson would lose to Foreman. Tyson was a great fighter than Foreman in the history of heavyweights in my mind, but stylewise it is true Tyson would have had big trouble. What could he do? He was smaller than George by 5 or 6 inches and 30 pounds. He is not going to overpower George and George would had a target for his huge punches. Stylewise is why George would have won, not because he was better. This was a terrible fight for Tyson.

[lefthook31]

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Who was that in the first clip, Peter McNeely? Was that apollo creed in the third? I would shakin in my boots if I saw that. Tyson really looks scared of foreman in this clip

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[PetethePrince]

Who was that in the first clip, Peter McNeely? Was that apollo creed in the third? I would shakin in my boots if I saw that. Tyson really looks scared of foreman in this clip

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Tyson looks like a scared boy.

[fists of fury]

Foreman and co. were hoping for a free shot. All George had to do was fight and beat a legitimate contender to get a shot at Tyson. But Foreman instead chose to make a lot of noise about fighting Tyson and how he would destroy Tyson all the while feasting on the usual schmear cases and tomato cans. Even Bill Cayton commented once about how Foreman needed to face a serious contender in order to prove his merit as a contender and/or title challenger. But George was just hoping for a free shot!

George didn't even want to fight Mike Weaver. He took no risks during his comeback.
As I see it, he wanted the Tyson fight as quickly as possible because it would have earned him an ablsolute fortune. Besides, he also had nothing to lose.
Get bombed out - collects his millions and rides off into the sunset.
Make a fight of it - maybe get a rematch in addition to the millions from the first fight.
Win - the sky is the limit.

George wanted to jump to the front of the queue by shouting "I want Tyson!" a scant 5 fights into his comeback. He was a master salesman.

[lefthook31]

I give George credit for his comeback. He took a lot of beatings, and he was tough. Just the fact that he was willing to get in there with Tyson showed a lot of balls, but like someone said it was all for the money. As soon as his grill took off, he dropped boxing like a sack of rocks. Tyson would have made him a lot of money, but he would have taken a serious beating for it.

[Blood Green]

It's gotta be bullshit. Tyson ducked no one in his prime.

[AnthonyJ74]

George didn't even want to fight Mike Weaver. He took no risks during his comeback.
As I see it, he wanted the Tyson fight as quickly as possible because it would have earned him an ablsolute fortune. Besides, he also had nothing to lose.
Get bombed out - collects his millions and rides off into the sunset.
Make a fight of it - maybe get a rematch in addition to the millions from the first fight.
Win - the sky is the limit.

George wanted to jump to the front of the queue by shouting "I want Tyson!" a scant 5 fights into his comeback. He was a master salesman.

Foreman was pretty greedy. He admitted later on how broke he was when he got back into boxing. He wanted those millions of dollars, and he wasn't going to let a loss early on in his comeback derail a big money fight against the champion.

[PetethePrince]

George didn't even want to fight Mike Weaver. He took no risks during his comeback.
As I see it, he wanted the Tyson fight as quickly as possible because it would have earned him an ablsolute fortune. Besides, he also had nothing to lose.
Get bombed out - collects his millions and rides off into the sunset.
Make a fight of it - maybe get a rematch in addition to the millions from the first fight.
Win - the sky is the limit.

George wanted to jump to the front of the queue by shouting "I want Tyson!" a scant 5 fights into his comeback. He was a master salesman.

Yet he fought all the way till 1997, which unfortunately makes your reasoning non-viable. He didn't want to go the hard way to get a title shot... most fighters don't. Especially 40 year old ex HW champs. He thought he deserved that respect. He proved he deserve some of it by 1991 against Holyfield.

Dropped like a brick from boxing. Did you want him to continue into his 50's? :nut

[Jaws]

George didn't even want to fight Mike Weaver. He took no risks during his comeback.
As I see it, he wanted the Tyson fight as quickly as possible because it would have earned him an ablsolute fortune. Besides, he also had nothing to lose.
Get bombed out - collects his millions and rides off into the sunset.
Make a fight of it - maybe get a rematch in addition to the millions from the first fight.
Win - the sky is the limit.

George wanted to jump to the front of the queue by shouting "I want Tyson!" a scant 5 fights into his comeback. He was a master salesman.

This thread can now officially be retired.

[KO KIDD]

No benifit to fight Foreman he wanted Holy who Foreman lost to and he did not need to get knocked into next year like the buster fight

[fists of fury]

Yet he fought all the way till 1997, which unfortunately makes your reasoning non-viable. He didn't want to go the hard way to get a title shot... most fighters don't. Especially 40 year old ex HW champs. He thought he deserved that respect. He proved he deserve some of it by 1991 against Holyfield.

Dropped like a brick from boxing. Did you want him to continue into his 50's? :nut

But look at the type of purses he was earning Pete. 5 Million for Alex Stewart? What did Alex get for that fight? Who wouldn't stick around for that sort of money?

The thing is though, despite his rep as a former champ, he hadn't fought in 10 years. It's not like he took two or three years off and made a comeback. He was out for an entire decade. He had completely faded from people's minds...he needed to prove himself as a viable contender and not a disaster waiting to happen.
The fact that he did end up becoming a legitimate contender (and champ, eventually) isn't really the point.

I respect the man for what he achieved during his second career, don't get me wrong. I just feel some people are losing their perspective on what the 'climate' was like those days.

[PetethePrince]

But look at the type of purses he was earning Pete. 5 Million for Alex Stewart? What did Alex get for that fight? Who wouldn't stick around for that sort of money?

Sure he was getting money. But you said he rode at once his grill hit big. How long did you really think he should of kept on fighting for? Till he was in his 50's? Alex Stewart was a well-regarded contender so him taking these shots dismissed the one title shot and leave theory.

The thing is though, despite his rep as a former champ, he hadn't fought in 10 years. It's not like he took two or three years off and made a comeback. He was out for an entire decade. He had completely faded from people's minds...he needed to prove himself as a viable contender and not a disaster waiting to happen.
The fact that he did end up becoming a legitimate contender (and champ, eventually) isn't really the point.

Foreman might not have done enough to prove he deserved a title shot but he didn't enough to prove he was legit. His KO comeback streak, and his dispatchment of Cooney was enough for some of the public to go on board. And public opinion is what matters most in reality.

I respect the man for what he achieved during his second career, don't get me wrong. I just feel some people are losing their perspective on what the 'climate' was like those days.

I still think he could've beaten Tyson, and I think he knew this. He prepared for him and he was like "He's going to come into my power." If Tyson beats Douglas, the fight would've happened eventually. Or Tyson would've been forced to duck because Foreman was going to buzzsaw him in the press and keep on fighting better comp.

[ironchamp]

I still think he could've beaten Tyson, and I think he knew this. He prepared for him and he was like "He's going to come into my power." If Tyson beats Douglas, the fight would've happened eventually. Or Tyson would've been forced to duck because Foreman was going to buzzsaw him in the press and keep on fighting better comp.

Seems as though you have a laundry list of 2nd tier fighters who could have beaten Tyson.

C'mon this is 2nd career Foreman were talking about.


You know the funny thing about this story and how it shaped the opinions of some boxing fans, makes me wonder whether or not in 10-15 years time people are going to come out the woodwork and claim that Hashim Rahman scared Vitaly Klitschko into retirement. From the looks of this its likely going to happen and you'll have people swearing up and down that Rahman would have beaten Vitaly by KO.

[fists of fury]

But you said he rode at once his grill hit big.

Nope, not me.

[lefthook31]

Nope, not me.
I said that and it was true. Foreman left boxing because he was pissed at the snow job he got against Briggs, and the fact that his grill starting to take off.
George was paid 137 million in early 1999 for his grill. He stopped boxing in late 97 and after the Briggs fight wanted to continue.

[PetethePrince]

Seems as though you have a laundry list of 2nd tier fighters who could have beaten Tyson.

Really, if that's the way it seems give me your take on who I think beats Tyson. I'm waiting...

You know the funny thing about this story and how it shaped the opinions of some boxing fans, makes me wonder whether or not in 10-15 years time people are going to come out the woodwork and claim that Hashim Rahman scared Vitaly Klitschko into retirement. From the looks of this its likely going to happen and you'll have people swearing up and down that Rahman would have beaten Vitaly by KO.

Yes, this is quite the same situation. Because Rahman is the same threat, and would be a huge payday. :roll:

[PetethePrince]

I said that and it was true. Foreman left boxing because he was pissed at the snow job he got against Briggs, and the fact that his grill starting to take off.
George was paid 137 million in early 1999 for his grill. He stopped boxing in late 97 and after the Briggs fight wanted to continue.

It was clear boxing wanted George out. They got what they wanted from him and anymore would've been a liability. Foreman was 48, though. How much longer should he have gone on?

[lefthook31]

It was clear boxing wanted George out. They got what they wanted from him and anymore would've been a liability. Foreman was 48, though. How much longer should he have gone on?
He already went on too long. He was clearly in it to feed his 10 kids all named George

[v2k987]

umm... foreman had problems with the swarming dwight muhammad quawi... tyson could have possibly been KO'd but based on that fight i think tyson would have beaten george

[cuchulain]

umm... foreman had problems with the swarming dwight muhammad quawi... tyson could have possibly been KO'd but based on that fight i think tyson would have beaten george

That was during George's SECOND life.

George of 1973/74 would have beaten Tyson, IMO.

But at no point in George's comeback would he have posed much threat to Prime Tyson, and I doubt Tyson feared him.

[sauhund II]

LOL, so the B/C fighters like Stewart-Saverese-Schultz did not fear him but Tyson would ? LMAO, the comebacking Foreman was all smoke and mirrors with the intent to make the most money by fighting tomatoecans and then conning the public into the thinking that he is a legitimate threat to world class fighters.........

BTW, Tyson and Foreman have two of the above fighters as common opponents, I let some of you Einsteins figure out how long it took a faded/washed up Tyson to deal with those guys and how George turned it into a life and death affair.

[punchy]

LOL, so the B/C fighters like Stewart-Saverese-Schultz did not fear him but Tyson would ? LMAO, the comebacking Foreman was all smoke and mirrors with the intent to make the most money by fighting tomatoecans and then conning the public into the thinking that he is a legitimate threat to world class fighters.........

BTW, Tyson and Foreman have two of the above fighters as common opponents, I let some of you Einsteins figure out how long it took a faded/washed up Tyson to deal with those guys and how George turned it into a life and death affair.

These guys aren't swarmers Tyson was, Foremen knocked out any sort of swarming fighter, except Morrison who ran all night, he fought whether it be his first career or his second.

[BoxingFanNo1]

I brought up this point in a previous thread because I believe a lot of people are questioning Lotierzo's word without knowing his credentials.

For those who don't know Frank Lotierzo, the autor of the piece, I found this brief piece on the web:

Frank Lotierzo has been considered by some boxing insiders to be one of the sport’s best fight analyst. His work has appeared in Fight Game, Boxing-Illustrated, and Uppercut magazine. Prior to his career as a writer, Mr. Lotierzo hosted Toe-To-Toe on ESPN Radio and trained at Joe Frazier's Gym in Philadelphia under the tutelage of the legendary George Benton. Between 1977-82, he had over 50 fights as an amateur and pro in the middleweight division.

Goto a more 'scientific' boxing website and you'll see the man has written 100+ articles their alone.

Now, given his credentials tell me,

1) Why would Lotierzo jeopardise his friendship with Benton by spouting bullshit?
2) Why would he fabricate a story involving influencial respected members of the boxing world named? Duva, Goodman and Benton.
3) Why has neither Duva, Goodman or Benton ever refuted Lotierzo's claims?

[lefthook31]

These guys aren't swarmers Tyson was, Foremen knocked out any sort of swarming fighter, except Morrison who ran all night, he fought whether it be his first career or his second.
He didnt knock out Crawford Grimsley who was a club fighting swarmer and was knocked out in 30 seconds by Jimmy Thunder. He didnt knock out Lou Savarese who stood right in front of him. He didnt knockout Alex Stewart who had been knocked out in 1 round by Tyson. He didnt knockout Briggs who had questionable stamina and chin.
See what your failing to realize is that Foremans lack of speed allowed these type of fighters to do these things to make it to the end of the fight. You want to tell me that Tyson in the early 90's was as limited, one dimensional and had as weak of a chin as some of these guys I mentioned? :-(

[lefthook31]

I brought up this point in a previous thread because I believe a lot of people are questioning Lotierzo's word without knowing his credentials.

For those who don't know Frank Lotierzo, the autor of the piece, I found this brief piece on the web:

Frank Lotierzo has been considered by some boxing insiders to be one of the sport’s best fight analyst. His work has appeared in Fight Game, Boxing-Illustrated, and Uppercut magazine. Prior to his career as a writer, Mr. Lotierzo hosted Toe-To-Toe on ESPN Radio and trained at Joe Frazier's Gym in Philadelphia under the tutelage of the legendary George Benton. Between 1977-82, he had over 50 fights as an amateur and pro in the middleweight division.

Goto a more 'scientific' boxing website and you'll see the man has written 100+ articles their alone.

Now, given his credentials tell me,

1) Why would Lotierzo jeopardise his friendship with Benton by spouting bullshit?
2) Why would he fabricate a story involving influencial respected members of the boxing world named? Duva, Goodman and Benton.
3) Why has neither Duva, Goodman or Benton ever refuted Lotierzo's claims?
What does this have to do with Tyson? I didnt read the article but Duva and Benton were not in any way involved with Tyson. Benton I believe worked with Foreman. Why would Benton get pissed at this guy for his fighter look better?

[Robney]

Big George is one of my all time favorites, but you could tell that already :cool:
I never heard or read the Mike Tyson story though, and I think Mike would have beaten George in the early 90's.
But I also believe the story Mike was afraid of him. By the time the fight was supposed to be made, Tyson had just lost and George looked like a fracking machine blasting away on his helpless opponents (mostly walking corpses but hey) like Tyson in his prime.
With that in mind and George beïng awed upon by a young Tyson I can see him beïng afraid of him, certainly after the Cooney fight which second round you should see from all angles btw :admin

[BoxingFanNo1]

What does this have to do with Tyson? I didnt read the article but Duva and Benton were not in any way involved with Tyson. Benton I believe worked with Foreman. Why would Benton get pissed at this guy for his fighter look better?

How can you comment on my observations on the article when you haven't read the article???:huh

[lefthook31]

How can you comment on my observations on the article when you haven't read the article???:huh
:lol: Your right, Ill read it. Shame on me :wall

Where is it?? Cant find it

[BoxingFanNo1]

:lol: Your right, Ill read it. Shame on me :wall

Where is it?? Cant find it

:lol:

Here you go:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[lefthook31]

:lol:

Here you go:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I have read that, but thats Goodmans words, who is also full of shit, and there was a lot going on with Tyson at that time, he was very close to getting rid of King and company. Steve Wynn the hotel mogul was very close to stealing Tyson away from King. Tyson only wanted his titles back and I believe he was more concerned with getting the titles than an exhibition with Foreman and King couldnt make the fight for his own greedy reasons. Wynn had signed Douglas after the Holy fight and Tyson was going to leave King and fight the winner.
Again, this is coming from one guy. You dont think Lou Duva who has the biggest mouth in all of boxing would be telling this story to anyone who would listen??

[johnmaff36]

I believe the integrity of the authors piece, that these claims were made to him by several people, but i just dont buy into Tyson being scared to fight Foreman. Fighters at this level are not frightened of each other, especially the way Tysons being portrayed as being 'heart scared' to face Foreman. Its possible that he may, or could, have reservations about Foreman but i cant see him being frightened.

Its as plain as the nose on your face that big George was in it from the start to make money, nothing more nothing less, and fair play to him. Millions of dollars were there for him with little risk of a beating for the majoirtiy of those fights. Him calling out Tyson is no different to what thousands of boxers have done over the years, its all about the money. IMO it really is that straight forward

[lefthook31]

I believe the integrity of the authors piece, that these claims were made to him by several people, but i just dont buy into Tyson being scared to fight Foreman. Fighters at this level are not frightened of each other, especially the way Tysons being portrayed as being 'heart scared' to face Foreman. Its possible that he may, or could, have reservations about Foreman but i cant see him being frightened.

Its as plain as the nose on your face that big George was in it from the start to make money, nothing more nothing less, and fair play to him. Millions of dollars were there for him with little risk of a beating for the majoirtiy of those fights. Him calling out Tyson is no different to what thousands of boxers have done over the years, its all about the money. IMO it really is that straight forward
I agree, especially when you factor he went on to face a younger stronger puncher in Ruddock, twice!

[BoxingFanNo1]

I believe the integrity of the authors piece, that these claims were made to him by several people, but i just dont buy into Tyson being scared to fight Foreman. Fighters at this level are not frightened of each other, especially the way Tysons being portrayed as being 'heart scared' to face Foreman. Its possible that he may, or could, have reservations about Foreman but i cant see him being frightened.

Its as plain as the nose on your face that big George was in it from the start to make money, nothing more nothing less, and fair play to him. Millions of dollars were there for him with little risk of a beating for the majoirtiy of those fights. Him calling out Tyson is no different to what thousands of boxers have done over the years, its all about the money. IMO it really is that straight forward

There was a boxer called Bowe.......

[johnmaff36]

There was a boxer called Bowe.......
I agree. Im a lewis man myself. You will get the odd one slipping through the net

[punchy]

He didnt knock out Crawford Grimsley who was a club fighting swarmer and was knocked out in 30 seconds by Jimmy Thunder. He didnt knock out Lou Savarese who stood right in front of him. He didnt knockout Alex Stewart who had been knocked out in 1 round by Tyson. He didnt knockout Briggs who had questionable stamina and chin.
See what your failing to realize is that Foremans lack of speed allowed these type of fighters to do these things to make it to the end of the fight. You want to tell me that Tyson in the early 90's was as limited, one dimensional and had as weak of a chin as some of these guys I mentioned? :-(

Surely the argument is Foreman is death to swarming style fighters he did knock out Cooper and Morrison ran all night probably the best swarming style fighters apart from Tyson at the time. Tyson has done some silly things in his life time, to stand in front of George Foreman though was not one of them.

[lefthook31]

Surely the argument is Foreman is death to swarming style fighters he did knock out Cooper and Morrison ran all night probably the best swarming style fighters apart from Tyson at the time. Tyson has done some silly things in his life time, to stand in front of George Foreman though was not one of them.
Yes but Tyson is up here and Morrison and Cooper are,,







































Morrison























































Cooper down here on a skill level comparatively speaking. :hi:

[RockysSplitNose]

Yes but Tyson is up here and Morrison and Cooper are,,




















































Morrison























































Cooper down here on a skill level comparatively speaking. :hi:

:lol::lol::lol::lol: this one was hilarious (one of the more hilarious comment ever) but I think you were a little bit harsh on old Smokin Bert I'd have him more...

Tyson...






Morrison



























:rastaYeah man and I damn near kicked Holyfield's ass!!

[warrior85]

either way in 90 it was a lose-lose fight for tyson.win & you beat an old guy(like the holmes fight).lose & your fucked.

[biglads]

I think Tyson could have had problems against old George simply because his mind wasn't right.

Foreman fought with real serenity in his comeback, very measured and calm. Pretty much the opposite of Tyson. George wasn't going to be intimidated by Mike and would have been a massive sentimental favourite. All these things together could have made Mike crack before he even entered the ring.

Who knows really except Tyson himself? It would have been a massive fight at the time.

[McGrain]

biglads has factual points.
Truth is any Foreman, old or young beats any Tyson even super-overrared 'prime' version by KO/TKO. George won't back down, he will easily scare him in the staredown, beat him when he attacks head-on and beat him with extra power and very much better heart. Tyson's ever present mental fragility will crack in the staredown and shatter when Foreman refuses to budge and never retreats from their exchanges, and Foreman will catch him with uppercuts on the way in and lift him off his feet like he did with Frazier, and he would not even get up once. Young Foreman can even keep him off with the jab and any Foreman can physically bully and Tyson with pushing and leans during clinches. Tyson has no chance of getting rid of George in the first 5 rounds due to iron chin, so he will get tired if he even gets past those first rounds and will i promise be crushed like a tiny bug. Young Foreman wins in first 2-3 round and old Foreman takes 6-7 rounds due to not being as fast.


Am I right in saying that every single post you've made on this forum so far has been a negative one about Mike Tyson?

[Joe]

Tyson had a lot of money to gain in this fight, which is exactly why Holyfield took it. Foreman meant a huge pay-day while not looking like a real threat. Not many passes up on such an opportunity. I would suggest this is more or less the reason why Tyson took on Holyfield in 1996. Holyfield certainly wasn't seen as the most dangerous challenger at that point, but he meant a lot of money. Tyson seemed to like that just fine then.

Tyson vs Holyfield was supposed to happen after Holyfield KO'd Douglas but Tyson went to jail, that's why it was called the biggest fight that never happened in 96 when they finnally fought...