American friends. What placing was Antonio Tarver P4P when Hopkins exposed him?

[China_hand_Joe]

Can any Americans come up with a reasonable answer?

Once you all give the wrong answer I will enlighten you further about the sport of boxing.

[MSTR]

I would say pretty low. Top 20 at best IMO. Based on the ring rating system though.

[Carlos Primera]

the ring had him champ at lightweight, but he was probably between the top 15-20 p4p

[cross_trainer]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).

[dave82]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).

What a fucking genius :patsch

[BewareofDawg]

Can any Americans come up with a reasonable answer?

Once you all give the wrong answer I will enlighten you further about the sport of boxing.
I say somewhere between 31 and 37 P4P :deal

[brimey]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[China_hand_Joe]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).

Physical prime Calzaghe is roughly 1.2 on that scale, it was recently discovered prime Calzaghe was better than peak Calzaghe of the Lacy fight.

[China_hand_Joe]

I say somewhere between 31 and 37 P4P :deal

This is somewhat accurate.

[BewareofDawg]

This is somewhat accurate.
Roughly. I know I had Calzaghe around the #40 mark and Tarver was definitely 3 to 9 places above him :hey

[The Whaler]

Who cares? Last time I checked Tarver wasn't Calzaghe.

[BewareofDawg]

Who cares? Last time I checked Tarver wasn't Calzaghe.

Is this you? [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[The Whaler]

Is this you? [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Absolutely.

[BewareofDawg]

Absolutely.
Awsome :good

[BewareofDawg]

Do you get picked on in Elementary School?

[The Whaler]

Constantly, and I'm one of the teachers.

[DanePugilist]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).Good grief:yikes - SRR only twice as good, as that version of Milk Dud. You must be reading it wrong. Surely there must be a -(minus) sign infront that you have missed.

[box03]

I was wondering if that was you in the picture too

[The Whaler]

I was wondering if that was you in the picture too

Yeah, it's me. I had to crop the photo though. Couldn't show where the other hand was.

[djb2009]

Physical prime Calzaghe is roughly 1.2 on that scale, it was recently discovered prime Calzaghe was better than peak Calzaghe of the Lacy fight.

I'm a Calzaghe fan aswell, but get your dick out of his arse.

[cross_trainer]

Good grief:yikes - SRR only twice as good, as that version of Milk Dud. You must be reading it wrong. Surely there must be a -(minus) sign infront that you have missed.

The Calzaghe scale rounds up to hundredths of a Calzaghe. Tarver is so infinitessimally small that he would normally be 0.00, but that spot is reserved for Ruiz and Zelenoff.

[pipe wrenched]

The Calzaghe scale rounds up to hundredths of a Calzaghe. Tarver is so infinitessimally small that he would normally be 0.00, but that spot is reserved for Ruiz and Zelenoff.

:lol: Damn, that's good!

[DanePugilist]

The Calzaghe scale rounds up to hundredths of a Calzaghe. Tarver is so infinitessimally small that he would normally be 0.00, but that spot is reserved for Ruiz and Zelenoff.:yep :yep - Maybe the scale should include Lacy units(1 LU=1/1000 Calzaghe) so the scale will appear more accurate.

[China_hand_Joe]

It seems we can all agree Tarver was nothing.

Yet to defend Hopkins people say Tarver was a top 10 P4P fighter in RING as though it means something.

[madpup]

It seems we can all agree Tarver was nothing.

Yet to defend Hopkins people say Tarver was a top 10 P4P fighter in RING as though it means something.

How would you rate Tarver compared to Lacy?

[China_hand_Joe]

How would you rate Tarver compared to Lacy?

About the same, except Lacy is a more active fighter in the ring. Although Calzaghe was hammering him, Lacy continued trying to throw punches.

Tarver just stands there these days. Being inactive is not good for Tarver's style at all.

[McGrain]

Yet to defend Hopkins people say Tarver was a top 10 P4P fighter in RING as though it means something.

Steady now, it does mean something. Tarver was a good fighter who was generally overated.

[China_hand_Joe]

Hey man , Tarver knocked out the #1 P4P guy and then beat the other guy that knocked Jones out . Say what you want but that put him on the list . When was the last time your boyfriend fraudzaghe did anything even remotely close to that . When did Calzaghe ever fight anyone even on the P4P list ? Even in the top 20 P4P ? I'm going to go with never ! :good

Tarver beat a former P4P number one. A percieved P4P number one, who was actually just a shadow of himself from 4 years earlier.

[Guru_Too_You]

Tarver beat a former P4P number one. A percieved P4P number one, who was actually just a shadow of himself from 4 years earlier.

And that shadow still kept Calzaghe hiding at 168.

[China_hand_Joe]

Just like Calzaghe beat a shadow of Eubank.

Exactly.

[China_hand_Joe]

Hindsight isn't something we ignore for the convienience of pro-Americanism, like RING magazine like to do.

[Guru_Too_You]

Hindsight isn't something we ignore for the convienience of pro-Americanism, like RING magazine like to do.

Better than having your head completely up your ass, like most bloody tossers from across the pond.

Stay away from the nationalities card boss.

[Asterion]

Probably Top20 P4P.


Tarver fought Hopkins in mid-2006.


In December 2005, he was OUT of the Top10 P4P.


Source: The Ring ratings


1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2. Ronald (Winky) Wright
3. Marco Antonio Barrera
4. Ricky Hatton
5. Manny Pacquiao
6. Erik Morales
7. Juan Manuel Marquez
8. Rafael Marquez
9. Jose Luis Castillo
10. Zab Judah

[cross_trainer]

About the same, except Lacy is a more active fighter in the ring. Although Calzaghe was hammering him, Lacy continued trying to throw punches.

Tarver just stands there these days. Being inactive is not good for Tarver's style at all.

He was better than Lacy, but that's neither here nor there. Even if he was equal to Lacy, Hopkins defeating him means more than Calzaghe defeating Lacy, because Hopkins had to move up in weight to fight a P4P-equivalent fighter.

[Guru_Too_You]

He was better than Lacy, but that's neither here nor there. Even if he was equal to Lacy, Hopkins defeating him means more than Calzaghe defeating Lacy, because Hopkins had to move up in weight to fight a P4P-equivalent fighter.

Logical thinking won't help you with CHJ.

[McGrain]

Logical thinking won't help you with CHJ.


And Amen.

[cross_trainer]

Logical thinking won't help you with CHJ.

I know. I might as well, though--I have nothing else to do.

[Thom]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).

:rofl

[China_hand_Joe]

He was better than Lacy, but that's neither here nor there. Even if he was equal to Lacy, Hopkins defeating him means more than Calzaghe defeating Lacy, because Hopkins had to move up in weight to fight a P4P-equivalent fighter.

Lacy and Tarver both struggled to a similar degree against their last opponents.

Tarver against a far worse opponent, Lacy with an injury.

At this point in time it is clear Lacy is superior.

Also the style in which Calzaghe dismantled Lacy was far more impressive in terms of the skills and ability he displayed.

Hopkins was probably moving up to a weight that was just as comfortable as Middleweight for him.


Calzaghe's victory was more dominant, over a better opponent than a shot Tarver. Not even moving up in weight makes up for that.



Although this isn't a Calzaghe vs Hopkins issue. Hopkins isn't in the top 10, there is nothing to discuss in that regard.
This is about Hopkins being incorrectly placed in such listing as a result of gaining an excess of credit.

Joan Guzman, defeated, in similar style, Jorge Barrios (highly regarded at that time, coming of a 3rd round KO in a title fight). (It was not a SD as listed, it was an absolute schooling) Barrios at this point in time is superior to Tarver. Guzman was also moving up in weight. He too is placed below Hopkins.

Why? Because American Media favorites gain infinite more credit for very good, but not great victories than anyone else, based on past achievement which are not relavent when rating fighters in a current P4P list.


There are plently of other examples of victories superior to Hopkins too, add to that the shoe-ins for the P4P list and Hopkins is quite obviously not amongst the top ten fighters in the world today.

[Decebal]

ahhhh...another classic CHJ thread! "American friends...let me show you how silly you are!"

:lol:

[China_hand_Joe]

:patsch Do you even listen to yourself ? At least Tarver actually beat someone . Who did Lacy ever beat ? Who did Calzaghe ever beat for that matter ?

What about Joe Calzaghed assumed resume?

This is Joe Calzaghe assumed resume, because we know he would have won many fights for a fact.
Eubanks
Hopkins
Reid
Roy
Veit
Toney
Lacy
Starie
Johnson
Woodhall
Mitchell
Salem
Kessler
Beyer
Tarver
Ottke
Wright
Taylor

We can effectively give Calzaghe credit for those all those wins.

As a result he has just about the best resume in history.

[Decebal]

What about Joe Calzaghed assumed resume.

This is Joe Calzaghe assumed resume, because we know he would have won many fights for a fact.
Eubanks
Hopkins
Reid
Roy
Veit
Toney
Lacy
Starie
Johnson
Woodhall
Mitchell
Salem
Kessler
Beyer
Tarver
Ottke
Wright
Taylor

We can effectively give Calzaghe credit for those all those wins.

As a result he has just about the best resume in history.

I love this Alice in Wonderland stuff!:lol:

[Decebal]

China_hand_Joe, is Joe afraid of flying? He is quoted on the front page as saying: "I am not a big fan of flying".:think

[China_hand_Joe]

China_hand_Joe, is Joe afraid of flying? He is quoted on the front page as saying: "I am not a big fan of flying".:think

That is what the article implies.

Just think of the comical possiblities people have a chance to exploit with that.

[Carlos Primera]

What about Joe Calzaghed assumed resume?

This is Joe Calzaghe assumed resume, because we know he would have won many fights for a fact.
Eubanks
Hopkins
Reid
Roy
Veit
Toney
Lacy
Starie
Johnson
Woodhall
Mitchell
Salem
Kessler
Beyer
Tarver
Ottke
Wright
Taylor

We can effectively give Calzaghe credit for those all those wins.

As a result he has just about the best resume in history.
:rofl :rofl
China_hand_joe is the man! is this hypothetical assumed records an esb first?

[DanePugilist]

China_hand_Joe, is Joe afraid of flying? He is quoted on the front page as saying: "I am not a big fan of flying".:thinkHad this been 1912, he might have sailed with the Titanic.

[Decebal]

Had this been 1912, he might have sailed with the Titanic.

...I think Joe would have been afraid to have even boarded a train carriage in 1912!:D

[rushman]

I had Tarver somewhere in the top 5 of the LHW division at the time of B-hop beating him.

[ChampionsForever]

Alot of guys had him in there top ten, alot of guys picked him to beat Hopkins by KO I called the Schooling he would recieve :deal.

[King Dan]

I had Tarver somewhere in the top 5 of the LHW division at the time of B-hop beating him.

Tarver was the undisputed Lt Heavy Champ when Hopkins beat him.

Pound for pound Tarver had to be top 15 in the average opinion.

[El Bombasto]

He was roughly 0.01 CU on the Calzaghe scale. (Only Calzaghe is 1.00 on the scale. His closest competitor--Sugar Ray Robinson--is 0.02 Calzaghe Units, or CU).

1.00 CU is theorectically possible, but even in his best performances Calzaghe has never topped .75 CU. Although, Calzaghe can perform at 1.0; he keeps it a 0.75 or lower for the safety of his opponents.

[Decebal]

1.00 CU is theorectically possible, but even in his best performances Calzaghe has never topped .75 CU. Although, Calzaghe can perform at 1.0; he keeps it a 0.75 or lower for the safety of his opponents.

This is because deep down, Joe's true vocation is that of a nurse, not that of a pro-boxer! He struggles with himself to get into that ring, everytime! The "I don't like to travel!" routine is just a cop-out - he knows hospital treatment in Britain is better than in the US - where only rich sucessful boxers can afford it - and the rich successful boxers from the US of A avoid JC like the plague...so...think about it!

[El Bombasto]

Tarver was poisoned in that fight. :?

Seems to happen to him often.

[left jab danny]

One thing is for sure and thats if Tarver fights the green machine Danny will punch him into next year:deal

[nervousxtian]

I think Tarver has always been overrated since nearly-beating then actually-beating Roy Jones.

You might say deservedly so as well, he did dethrone the P4P King of the last decade, and that's not a small feat, but if you analyze it all, it's really not as impressive as it would sound to the layman.

The truth being that Tarver was nothing more than a good B level guy who came at the right time, and had his once big time in the spotlight KO'ing RJJ. Beating Glen Johnson is nothing huge to write about, lots of guys be Glen Johnson, and any top level guy SHOULD beat Glen Johnson, and Tarver managed to LOSE to Glen.

..yet CHJ has no damn ground to stand on calling out Americans, when his country has way more nut-huggers of C-level competition than all of the US combined.

[41fever]

I think Tarver has always been overrated since nearly-beating then actually-beating Roy Jones.

You might say deservedly so as well, he did dethrone the P4P King of the last decade, and that's not a small feat, but if you analyze it all, it's really not as impressive as it would sound to the layman.

The truth being that Tarver was nothing more than a good B level guy who came at the right time, and had his once big time in the spotlight KO'ing RJJ. Beating Glen Johnson is nothing huge to write about, lots of guys be Glen Johnson, and any top level guy SHOULD beat Glen Johnson, and Tarver managed to LOSE to Glen.

..yet CHJ has no damn ground to stand on calling out Americans, when his country has way more nut-huggers of C-level competition than all of the US combined.
A lot of Glen's losing fights were clear robberies.

[the_churn]

What about Joe Calzaghed assumed resume?

This is Joe Calzaghe assumed resume, because we know he would have won many fights for a fact.
Eubanks
Hopkins
Reid
Roy
Veit
Toney
Lacy
Starie
Johnson
Woodhall
Mitchell
Salem
Kessler
Beyer
Tarver
Ottke
Wright
Taylor

We can effectively give Calzaghe credit for those all those wins.

As a result he has just about the best resume in history.
As long as you are going down the route of assumed resumes, you might as well throw Tyson, Liston, Ali, Josef Stalin, Jesus Christ, Achilles, and Ares, God of War, onto the list. I mean, why only be halfway crazy? Pull out the stops and go all the way.

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

god i pray everyday that kessler rocks joe so the nutthuggers stop

[China_hand_Joe]

As long as you are going down the route of assumed resumes, you might as well throw Tyson, Liston, Ali, Josef Stalin, Jesus Christ, Achilles, and Ares, God of War, onto the list. I mean, why only be halfway crazy? Pull out the stops and go all the way.I'm not some kind of idiot mate. Adding Tyson is unrealistic and would discredit my meaningful assesment.

[the_churn]

I'm not some kind of idiot mate. Adding Tyson is unrealistic and would discredit my meaningful assesment.

Heh. May the sun never set and all of that . . .

[MSTR]

I'm not some kind of idiot mate. Adding Tyson is unrealistic and would discredit my meaningful assesment.

:lol::lol::lol:

So when are you releasing the E-Book for newbies, Sarcasm 101?

[sues2nd]

I'm not some kind of idiot mate. Adding Tyson is unrealistic and would discredit my meaningful assesment.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

You know....as much as we dont see eye to eye....you are HANDS DOWN the funniest fucker on this site!!!!

:good

[rushman]

Tarver was the undisputed Lt Heavy Champ when Hopkins beat him.

Pound for pound Tarver had to be top 15 in the average opinion.

Popular opinion did have him as the LHW king. So I agree that popular opinion would have had him in the top 15 p4p.

But I didn't rank him as the best LHW, only top 5. Probably in the top 40 p4p.