Based on his achievements you can not rank Calzaghe in top 10 p4p

[madpup]

I am talking about his achievements, not his skills.

Discuss.

[madpup]

Floyd done fuck all? Tarver a broken down journeyman? You should apply for a job with your compatriot Gordon Brown, you would make a great spin doctor.

[madpup]

And here's the money shot. Here's what proves your post is biased because Calzaghe's not american. Your insecurities and prejudicies all rolled into one.

Calzaghe owns anyone of 'your' fighters in his range. Deal with it like your 'compatriot' George Bush.

Mate, I live in London, and I am certainly not american last time I checked, Russian in fact. Are you trying to say Labour do not like a bit of spin doctoring? This could be applied to any politicians anywhere, i just used Brown as fluxstuff is from Scotland.

[madpup]

Please, in detail, explain what is incorrect about my assertion that I would be "spinning" the facts.

Floyd has, in the last four years, fought noone who would prove a serious challenge. He has moved through N'dou, Corley, Bruseles, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir and Oscar.

One of them is a future ATG - the others, excepting Judah, are half-competent journeymen. Judah's not much above that by any description. The Oscar he faced is years past his prime. So, really, that's the facts.

As for Tarver... good win over Roy. Good win over Johnson. And losses to both of them, as well as Ol' Popkins. Tarver is broken down - his skills have eroded and he's gotten old.

Don't dismiss someone's argument unless you can counter it with some analysis.

Journeymen don't win world titles. Floyds wins whilst amazing are not diddly squat as you say. Journeymen are Michael Sprotts of this world.

[DanePugilist]

Undoubtedly true.

But that's not the way you should rank P4P. Skills have to come into it, otherwise Floyd has achieved fuck all in the last four years of any real note.

Bernard's been beaten in 2 of his last four, and his two victories were over a broken down journeyman done good and a LMW fighting 20lbs above his natural fighting weight, while his two losses were over someone he should have beaten.

Winky was just beaten by an old man (depsite his disadvantages at the weight), drew with Taylor (above mentioned beatable fighter) and hasn't really impressed since beating Trinidad.

Cotto hasn't beaten anyone really elite yet (Judah being the best and just a step below) and hasn't really proved anything (until he fights Shane, leastways).

JMM only came back to the serious limelight by beating Barrera and hasn't really achieved a huge amount.

So, looking at all these things, you could say that none of them have really achieved anything to deserve top 10 P4P when you approaching it that way. But their skills prove the converse.I agree with this, and have stated something similar - but as we all know - its heresy to say such matters to manipulated masses. Good post.

[DanePugilist]

... and to comply with the OPs requests - yes, Calzaghe has deserved his spot in top 10 p4p, despite the resume isn't on par with his skills.

Personally I am just hoping he is warming the seat for Kessler.

[Boro chris]

Mate, I live in London, and I am certainly not american last time I checked, Russian in fact. Are you trying to say Labour do not like a bit of spin doctoring? This could be applied to any politicians anywhere, i just used Brown as fluxstuff is from Scotland.

It seems anti-americanisim is so rampant its now spreading to..............................Russians!?:huh :yep

[Cookie]

Why should achievements necessarily have something to do with the concept of P4P? In an indirect manner, yes. By using their achievements as some form of evidence to prove their skills and ability. But not directly. Achievements don't really have anything to do with who is the best fighter in the hypothetical situation where all weights are equal. Otherwise it is not a list of the best fighters, but a list of who possesses the best record in all of boxing.

[DanePugilist]

journey man corrie sanders took time of from his golf career to win his title over waldo:deal

so journey men do win titles:yep:lol: - not to mention - Baldomir, who anyone with half a brain knew he was a weak champ. I don't blame Floyd for removing him, but I won't hail him for it either.

[madpup]

Your comment isn't entirely accurate if that's why you used Brown as your reference.

Brown wasn't really involved in the New Labour spin revolution, that was Blair along with Mandelson and Campbell. From all accounts, Brown never had time for them. In Mandelson's case, it was he who backed Tony Blair for the leadership after John Smith's death causing Brown numerous problems.



Here is a reminder for you: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[KayEpps]

For Calzaghe to hold a belt as long as he did and still be undefeated - how you not put him in your top ten.

Ricky Hatton beat an older Kosta - pretty much lost to Collazo - then beat war drawn Castillo - put his in most people top ten.

You got to be joking.

[DanePugilist]

if recall correctly mate, i can do one better..

the bonafide punching bag gatti, didnt he have a title, before losing it to floyd. that has to be, the weakest of all, being beaten by baldo:yepYeah, that is correct. I just decided not to be cruel, and chose the more diplomatic path.:lol:

[madpup]

Your point still isn't accurate - I didn't say he never lied, I said he wasn't involved in the New Labour spin revolution, which he categorically was not.

He's a liar, no doubt, but no different to when the Tories stopped counting the under 18s on the unemployed list. Not lying, as such, just changing the goalposts.

Spin is mis-representing the truth to achieve a poistive or negative outlook depending on your needs.

Spin is "History will remember me kindly for deposing Saddam Hussein" because it avoids the truth of the matter and uses a POSITIVE outcome to disguise a negative reality.

Gordon Brown just tried to lop off two years worth of figures. That's not spin.

You are not only delusional about boxers you like, but also seemingly politicians you support.

[DanePugilist]

im sure your diplomacy stems from a really relaxed atmosphere:rastaUnfortunately I am all out, and have been so for several days, but maybe its still in the system - nonetheless, its something I have to remedy.:lol: :rasta :rasta :rasta :rasta

[DanePugilist]

:D

perhaps we should plan a field trip for you. under the explanaition, that its educational:yep:yep :yep the word field sounds great - especially if its a field of something that negates speed:rasta

[DanePugilist]

actually the word field was a coincidence, or perhaps dr phil or freud would call sub-concious:DYes, they would. I would call it 'knowing what kind of quantities a dopathon requires for danes'.

[China_hand_Joe]

I am talking about his achievements, not his skills.

Discuss.


It is a good job achievements have nothing to do with P4P lists.


Although Calzaghe is easily amongst the 10 greatest fighters in the world today. 10 years mate.

[Boom_Boom]

For Calzaghe to hold a belt as long as he did and still be undefeated - how you not put him in your top ten.


easy, because of this


during Calzaghe's 10 year reign as "Champion" he only fought 2 mandatories.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[China_hand_Joe]

easy, because of this


during Calzaghe's 10 year reign as "Champion" he only fought 2 mandatories.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Even his madatories ducked him mate.

Why would anyone of them want a guarenteed loss?

[DanePugilist]

easy, because of this


during Calzaghe's 10 year reign as "Champion" he only fought 2 mandatories.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] fight mandatories, when you can fight celebrities.

[He Hate Me]

I am talking about his achievements, not his skills.

Discuss.


he should be a top p4p, if roy jones could ge king of p4p and not fight talented guys why should we exclude joe c from the list, he is deserving.

[McGrain]

I have him firmly in the top ten, probably top 5 pound for pound. He's one of the best fighters in the world. That is unquestionable.

However, there is a case for placing the less talanted Hatton above him, for example, because of what he has shown against top class fighters.

[Guru_Too_You]

he should be a top p4p, if roy jones could ge king of p4p and not fight talented guys why should we exclude joe c from the list, he is deserving.

Roy fought his mandatories.

[He Hate Me]

Roy fought his mandatories.

Yes he did. We both know fighting mandatory fights exclusivly is playing it safe.

[Napoleon]

Top 150. I would put him at 149.

What exactly did he achieve besides beating Lacy.

[DanePugilist]

I heard Joe Calzaghe was born with a pussy tucked behind his ball bag !He grew balls, when he met Lacy,and now for meeting Kessler. Speaking of lack of balls - when will yours drop, so we can see something worthwhile from you?

[kg0208]

Yes he did. We both know fighting mandatory fights exclusivly is playing it safe.

He also fought nearly every champion and 12 Top 10 fighters in the LHW division. Not fighting ONE guy doesn't equate to the other end of the spectrum of fighting no one.

[DanePugilist]

He also fought nearly every champion and 12 Top 10 fighters in the LHW division. Not fighting ONE guy doesn't equate to the other end of the spectrum of fighting no one.Some people always look at the glass as half-full, when they want to.

[DanePugilist]

How about when you get your head out of your butt ?:goodIts the only place where I find inspiration to reply to your idiocy.

[ozziebattler]

Your comment isn't entirely accurate if that's why you used Brown as your reference.

Brown wasn't really involved in the New Labour spin revolution, that was Blair along with Mandelson and Campbell. From all accounts, Brown never had time for them. In Mandelson's case, it was he who backed Tony Blair for the leadership after John Smith's death causing Brown numerous problems.

So, the point is garbled.

And, as has been stated, journeymen can win titles. Buster Douglas, Corrie Sanders, Leon Spinks, Clinton Woods, Glen Johnson, Manny Siaca... and I'm just relating the first that come to mind, are all journeymen who have done well.

At the time leon won his world title he wasnt considered a journeyman at all.Olympic gold medallist and huge prospect who at the time of his win against ali seemed to be fullfilling his potential.Later on he was more a shadow than a journeymen..

Your other examples are on the money though.Who would of thought clinton woods would go on to win a few titles??After the beatdown he got by jones i truely believed he would be nothing but a onetime contender.How wrong i was.

[ozziebattler]

he should be a top p4p, if roy jones could ge king of p4p and not fight talented guys why should we exclude joe c from the list, he is deserving.

Just couldnt see jones jr struggling against the likes of bika..:rofl :rofl

Roy could win a round without throwing a punch..

Joe is a top boxer but got to beat more than Jeff (WHERE DID THE LEFTHOOK GO) Lacy to impress me.

[boxbox]

top 10 material. these p4p is actually a popularity contest...don't take it seriously...it keeps the promoters alert on whom to bank their money on.=)

[ozziebattler]

top 10 material. these p4p is actually a popularity contest...don't take it seriously...it keeps the promoters alert on whom to bank their money on.=)

Very true..All and all p4p lists mean shit all.

[teke]

JC belongs in the top 10 for sure

[sues2nd]

I am talking about his achievements, not his skills.

Discuss.


p4p isnt just done on achievements and resume. It INCLUDES THOSE, but it also includes skill regardless of weight, etc.

Plus, Eubank, Reid, Mitchell, Veit, Lacy and soon to be Kessler (among others of course)....not bad if ya ask me. People severely underrate Joe's resume.

And his achievements? They most certainly are top 10. He has been the SMW champ for just about a decade now. He is undefeated for 14 years.... How are his achievements lacking?