Muhammad Ali was beating...

[Primadonna Kool]

George Foreman....Easy in the "Rumble in the Jungle".

I have the "When we where kings" dvd...

And it's just aload of shit when people say, Muhammad Ali was taking a one sided beating..while using the "Rope a Dope".

Muhammad Ali was winning the fight, winning rounds...and hitting George Foreman..again..and again..off the rope's.

WHY ALL THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT THE RUMBLE AND THE JUNLE..? MUHAMMAD ALI..BEAT GEORGE FOREMAN DOWN..

[Bokaj]

I remember when I first actually saw the fight after reading so much about it and I thought "which fucking one-sided beating, Ali is winning this fight almost the whole way through"?

But I think that's part of the Ali myth, just like the "long break" against Cooper and Ali wanting to quit before the last round in Manilla.

[Vantage_West]

it's becuase he was agaisnt he ropes and not dancing as poeple were thinking ali was going to do.

really george foreman played out his blueprint perfectly...did everythign right...except ali's speedy left - right all night.

[Longhhorn71]

it's becuase he was agaisnt he ropes and not dancing as poeple were thinking ali was going to do.

really george foreman played out his blueprint perfectly...did everythign right...except ali's speedy left - right all night.

I concur.

Wish there had been a rematch.

[Vantage_West]

I concur.

Wish there had been a rematch.
no ofcourse. in a rematch george wouldnt pile through.

but if your fighting a guy who is known for dancing and moving and is past it. and your a puncher with good trapping moves.

then your gameplan would be to cut off the ring get him on the ropes and let loose to the body....which he did.

yah semme?

[TommyV]

Because it fits better to the story. Man lays on the ropes, takes a one-sided beating in taking everything one of the hardest all-time punchers throws at him, before he gets exhausted and Ali knocks him out. That's how many people see the fight. I bet a lot of the more casual fans of the sport think he didn't throw any punches for 8 rounds and just sat on the ropes for 3 minutes per round.

[SteveO]

As others have said, it makes for a better story that all took clean body shots all night and then KO'ed Foreman.

Also, Ali was expected to dance and didn't as others said. Which is what prompted Norman Mailer to say "It's a fix."

I will say this, I believe it was towards the end of the 1st round and George caught Ali on the chin with a pretty big hook and Ali looked a bit scared.

[Slothrop]

Damn those ropes.

[Hydraulix]

I heard that the ropes were loosened by Dundee so Ali could lean back further. Is this a myth?

[Longhhorn71]

Ropes looked loose to me.

[Bill Butcher]

George Foreman....Easy in the "Rumble in the Jungle".

I have the "When we where kings" dvd...

And it's just aload of shit when people say, Muhammad Ali was taking a one sided beating..while using the "Rope a Dope".

Muhammad Ali was winning the fight, winning rounds...and hitting George Foreman..again..and again..off the rope's.

WHY ALL THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT THE RUMBLE AND THE JUNLE..? MUHAMMAD ALI..BEAT GEORGE FOREMAN DOWN..

I agree NOW

The 1st time I saw this fight, I was only about 12 yrs old & didnt know shit, it looked as tho Ali landed a few good punches here & there but mostly took a 7 rd beating then KOd a tired Foreman.

Only watching the fight yrs later after Id been into boxing for a while did I realise that it was Ali who was handing George his ass mostly & it was George who was having success in small spots until the KO.

Its amazing how experience can open your eyes.

[Bill Butcher]

I heard that the ropes were loosened by Dundee so Ali could lean back further. Is this a myth?

Myth.

George himself admits he used every excuse he could think of back then because he was having trouble coping mentally with his 1st ever loss, he has admitted in his later yrs that Ali was just the better fighter on that night.

[Bill Butcher]

I heard that the ropes were loosened by Dundee so Ali could lean back further. Is this a myth?

Considering that Ali didnt invent the rope-a-dope until between rds 1 & 2 were he realised he wouldnt last dancing for a full 15 the way he did in rd 1.

Maybe Angelo loosened the ropes in between rds 1 & 2 & nobody noticed :lol:

[Sam Dixon]

Myth.

On page 229 of his autobio 'I Only Talk Winning', Dundee admits to "refitting the ropes" before the fight, although he claims in the book that he was tightening them rather than loosening them. Either way, the looseness (or tightness) of the ropes that the fight was fought between was decided by his hands and/or supervision.

[The Wanderer]

George Foreman....Easy in the "Rumble in the Jungle".

I have the "When we where kings" dvd...

And it's just aload of shit when people say, Muhammad Ali was taking a one sided beating..while using the "Rope a Dope".

Muhammad Ali was winning the fight, winning rounds...and hitting George Foreman..again..and again..off the rope's.

WHY ALL THIS BULLSHIT ABOUT THE RUMBLE AND THE JUNLE..? MUHAMMAD ALI..BEAT GEORGE FOREMAN DOWN..

There are multiple reasons, in my opinion.

1) The degree of the rope-a-dope gets exaggerated because so many people at the time thought Ali's only chance was to outmove Foreman. So the shock of the fact that Ali stood there and stood up to George became the story of the fight. This got focused on and focused until it became the main story that everyone heard and takes over in people's minds as the story of the fight.

2) Furthermore, a lot of people are not boxing smart. They can only pick up on the basic and obvious things going on in the ring, and in many cases they've been influenced by how the story of the fight has always been told before. So what they see is Ali seemingly getting beat up by one of the hardest punchers the game has ever seen and don't realize how many times Ali is blocking punches with his elbows, arms, or dodging those punches by an inch. They also don't realize how much damage the much less flashy shots by Ali are doing to Foreman. They don't get how mentally unsteady and beaten Foreman is, and how that affects his willingness to fight on, or to try something different.

I heard that the ropes were loosened by Dundee so Ali could lean back further. Is this a myth?

I've heard from multiple sources that Dundee was trying to tighten them because the ropes were initially so loose that it seemed sure that someone would fall out of the ring. It might not be true, but if loosening the ropes was the plan all along, then why was Dundee constantly screaming at Ali to get off the ropes? :huh

[AnthonyJ74]

Considering that Ali didnt invent the rope-a-dope until between rds 1 & 2 were he realised he wouldnt last dancing for a full 15 the way he did in rd 1.

Maybe Angelo loosened the ropes in between rds 1 & 2 & nobody noticed :lol:

The rope-a-dope being invented in the Rumble in the Jungle is another myth. Ali used the rope-a-dope against Frazier in 1971, but Frazier didn't become a dope like Foreman did.

[mr. magoo]

George Foreman gets no respect around here.

[pare]

agree with all that it's myth-creating.

another thing with that documentary is that it tries to portray george foreman as this big fearless monster and ali was this knight who overcomes his fear. (like that crap from norman mailer that he saw fear in ali's eyes between rds 1 and 2.

ali was completely relaxed and welcomed in africa. foreman, on the other hand, was spooked and paranoid, his "brothers" completely against him, and wasn't training right.

[Bokaj]

I've heard from multiple sources that Dundee was trying to tighten them because the ropes were initially so loose that it seemed sure that someone would fall out of the ring. It might not be true, but if loosening the ropes was the plan all along, then why was Dundee constantly screaming at Ali to get off the ropes? :huh

The way Dundee tells it that the ropes had stretched in the humid heat and he actually tightened them and cut off the slack. After round 1 he noticed that the ropes had started to stretch a bit again and he wanted to tighten the once more, but Ali told him not to.

[groove]

The rope-a-dope being invented in the Rumble in the Jungle is another myth. Ali used the rope-a-dope against Frazier in 1971, but Frazier didn't become a dope like Foreman did.Ali went against the ropes fresh v foreman and as a plan of beating him. In FOTC Ali won the first rounds easy by moving and hitting even tho his timing was off and he was missing a few. later in the fight when he was tiring badly then he had to go to the ropes. different circumstances - tiredness and off-timing can be put to the long lay-off - look at ali v bonavena - i'll always remember Cossell commentary on that fight - he couldn't believe Ali was staying on the ropes, not moving & how bad he looked - something he never did in the 60s before exile. After that fight many thought Frazier could now beat him as it wasn't the same Ali only his great 15th round KO seem to hide that fact to many now.

[Bokaj]

Ali went against the ropes fresh v foreman and as a plan of beating him. In FOTC Ali won the first rounds easy by moving and hitting even tho his timing was off and he was missing a few. later in the fight when he was tiring badly then he had to go to the ropes. different circumstances - tiredness and off-timing can be put to the long lay-off - look at ali v bonavena - i'll always remember Cossell commentary on that fight - he couldn't believe Ali was staying on the ropes, not moving & how bad he looked - something he never did in the 60s before exile. After that fight many thought Frazier could now beat him as it wasn't the same Ali only his great 15th round KO seem to hide that fact to many now.

He actually went to the ropes for a while early in the first fight against Chuvalo. Of course, Chuvalo could sustain that whaling all night long, so he soon got up on his bicycle again.

[rusty nails]

George Foreman....Easy in the "Rumble in the Jungle".

I have the "When we where kings" dvd...

And it's just aload of shit when people say, Muhammad Ali was taking a one sided beating..while using the "Rope a Dope".

Muhammad Ali was winning the fight, winning rounds...and hitting George Foreman..again..and again..off the rope's.



you know that movie is heavily edited to make ali look like a god dont you?
watch the fight yourself.
foreman gave ali hell against the ropes and landed some absolutely wicked body shots..
At one point he even knocks ali out on his feet for a brief moment. even ali has admitted he was seeing stars.
ali won most of the rounds but they were very close rounds up until the finish.

[guilalah]

It wasn't a bad fight through the first five rounds, though I though Ali lead all the way.

[Bill Butcher]

The rope-a-dope being invented in the Rumble in the Jungle is another myth. Ali used the rope-a-dope against Frazier in 1971, but Frazier didn't become a dope like Foreman did.

Yeah, he stayed on the ropes & toyed with Frazier in some rds & in other rds Joe simply drove him into the ropes.... the actual tactic he used against Foreman was different to what he tried with Joe.

Ps. I dont think the actual rope-a-dope would have worked on Frazier the same as it did on Foreman anyway, different styles.

[The Wanderer]

Yeah, he stayed on the ropes & toyed with Frazier in some rds & in other rds Joe simply drove him into the ropes.... the actual tactic he used against Foreman was different to what he tried with Joe.

Ps. I dont think the actual rope-a-dope would have worked on Frazier the same as it did on Foreman anyway, different styles.

Good post. And you're quite right, Ali waved Frazier to come on while laying on the ropes in Manila and got a pretty severe beating from it.

[djanders]

I had it 5-2 (Ali) going into the 8th.

[PetethePrince]

Many have posted good reasons to why. Truth is it's been aggrandized like many things but most knowledgeable boxing fans know the truth. It's the same in a sense with the Ali v Cooper fight. Ali gets floored and is in huge trouble so Dundee cuts his gloves and he gets almost a minute of extra time. In reality, nothing Dundee does seems suspect and Ali gets 5 to 10 extra seconds at the very most. Besides, Ali was fine going into the round and had incredible recuperative powers. It's one of those myths, but like most myths it grew and became the better story (George killing Ali for 8 rounds to Ali miraculously winning). After the fight Ali said, "I was winning wasn't I" to which everyone pretty much agrees. Close fight, but Ali was definitely winning. Don't confuse that to Ali not being courageous the way he was because he took some immense body shots, but he also made George miss a lot too.