Throwing fights

[He Hate Me]

In the moder era of boxing do you recall a match were you thought a fighter threw a fight. I don't hold this belief but some believe the dela hoya vs bernard hopkins fight was a little suspect.

[box03]

When I was watching it live and delahoya got hit with that body shot I thought it was fixed. But after replaying it a few times I think he just got caught, I mean who throws a fight with a body shot?

[Jose FM]

why would that fight be thrown, i think Hopkins was the favorite so it should of been the other way around if anything.

[Thread Stealer]

Journeyman heavyweight Tim Anderson said he threw fights on the request of his manager.

He later murdered that manager.

[Guru_Too_You]

When I was watching it live and delahoya got hit with that body shot I thought it was fixed. But after replaying it a few times I think he just got caught, I mean who throws a fight with a body shot?

Some one who doesn't want to get hit flush anymore.

The problem isn't that he went down from that punch, the problem is that he stayed down to avoid further punishment. Bernard had all his weight on his right foot, was leaning to the right and threw an arm punch with his left.

There is no way that that punch should have kept Oscar down. Sure, it may have been placed in the perfect spot to drop him, but in no way shape or form should that have ended the fight. Watch Castillo when he had 4 ribs broken. You don't roll around and punch shit. You don't drop all the way to the canvas, you take a knee and dont move because it hurts too much to move.

Very suspect, but certainly not a fix.

[He Hate Me]

Some one who doesn't want to get hit flush anymore.

The problem isn't that he went down from that punch, the problem is that he stayed down to avoid further punishment. Bernard had all his weight on his right foot, was leaning to the right and threw an arm punch with his left.

There is no way that that punch should have kept Oscar down. Sure, it may have been placed in the perfect spot to drop him, but in no way shape or form should that have ended the fight. Watch Castillo when he had 4 ribs broken. You don't roll around and punch shit. You don't drop all the way to the canvas, you take a knee and dont move because it hurts too much to move.

Very suspect, but certainly not a fix.

very good attention to detail.

[box03]

Some one who doesn't want to get hit flush anymore.

The problem isn't that he went down from that punch, the problem is that he stayed down to avoid further punishment. Bernard had all his weight on his right foot, was leaning to the right and threw an arm punch with his left.

There is no way that that punch should have kept Oscar down. Sure, it may have been placed in the perfect spot to drop him, but in no way shape or form should that have ended the fight. Watch Castillo when he had 4 ribs broken. You don't roll around and punch shit. You don't drop all the way to the canvas, you take a knee and dont move because it hurts too much to move.

Very suspect, but certainly not a fix. Yeah it was a little wierd, it looked more like he got the wind knocked out of him. I just cant see a professional like delahoya staying done from a punch like that.

[Guru_Too_You]

Yeah it was a little wierd, it looked more like he got the wind knocked out of him. I just cant see a professional like delahoya staying done from a punch like that.

If youre hurt that badly to the body you don't move. And there are hundreds upon hundreds of fighters and or bouts that can back this claim.

[dav8d777]

why would that fight be thrown, i think Hopkins was the favorite so it should of been the other way around if anything.

The problem boxing has with thrown fights, in my opinion, is that it is too easy to do. Also there is just WAY too much money involved.

First, you only have to recruit one fighter. He still gets his purse, plus a percentage of the betting. Then, if you can't buy one of the fighters you can always buy a judge.

For instance, and this is purely hypothetical, but in the de la Hoya / Mayweather fight there was some judge who said Mayweather lost. Just for the sake of argument let's say many people knew Mayweather would win, but not with a knockout. Putting money on a split decision would be very lucrative.

I know... I got off of the subject, but any time I see a situation I don't understand I just follow the money, and in boxing it's a LOT of money.

rj

[Thread Stealer]

I've seen many bodyshot KOs, and none of them looked as weak as Hopkins-De La Hoya, and they always freeze in pain instead of rolling around on the canvas.

Oscar didn't "throw" the fight (there was no pre-arrangement), but he would hardly be the first fighter to quit, especially a fighter who's already achieved a great deal.

[box03]

If youre hurt that badly to the body you don't move. And there are hundreds upon hundreds of fighters and or bouts that can back this claim. I completely understand what your saying, in the gym where i go i dont know anyone that hasnt gotten the wind knocked out of them. You just keep fighting and hope it goes away, then again I was hit with a body shot and my lights went out thank god it was in sparring cause if it was a real fight I would of been like delahoya down for the count.

[Guru_Too_You]

I've seen many bodyshot KOs, and none of them looked as weak as Hopkins-De La Hoya, and they always freeze in pain instead of rolling around on the canvas.

Oscar didn't "throw" the fight (there was no pre-arrangement), but he would hardly be the first fighter to quit, especially a fighter who's already achieved a great deal.

Good to see we agree on this one.

[Darthmage]

The problem boxing has with thrown fights, in my opinion, is that it is too easy to do. Also there is just WAY too much money involved.

First, you only have to recruit one fighter. He still gets his purse, plus a percentage of the betting. Then, if you can't buy one of the fighters you can always buy a judge.

For instance, and this is purely hypothetical, but in the de la Hoya / Mayweather fight there was some judge who said Mayweather lost. Just for the sake of argument let's say many people knew Mayweather would win, but not with a knockout. Putting money on a split decision would be very lucrative.

I know... I got off of the subject, but any time I see a situation I don't understand I just follow the money, and in boxing it's a LOT of money.

rj

I can only half-understand what you just said. Are you saying that PBF winning by SD rather than UD would change the amount of money being won or lost? Isn't a win a win ragardless of TKO or SD or UD in betting? I am only asking because obviously, I DON'T KNOW.

[ThePlugInBabies]

seldon!!!

[Thread Stealer]

I can only half-understand what you just said. Are you saying that PBF winning by SD rather than UD would change the amount of money being won or lost? Isn't a win a win ragardless of TKO or SD or UD in betting? I am only asking because obviously, I DON'T KNOW.

You can bet on a UD, SD, Draw, stoppage, stoppage in what round, over-under, etc...

Lots to choose from.

[lefthook31]

I thought Oscar put up a good account for himself, and I dont understand why he did duck out of that fight, and I believe he did. Hopkins was starting to get closer and land more often, but the fight was competitive and somewhat close. I guess Oscar felt he was just gassed out and Hopkins was coming on stronger, but he could have picked a better shot to go down from, that was kind of BS on his part. You cant call him a p*ssy, he was figthing a guy he didnt belong in the ring with.

[TBooze]

The last major fight that seemed not on the level was Coggi/GonzalesI. Before that there was whispers about Ramirez/WhitakerI; and I believe is it generally considered Everett/Escalera was fixed.

The last major fighter to be banned for fixing was I believe Pep, who was banned for life in New York for the Lulu Perez farce.

[dav8d777]

I can only half-understand what you just said. Are you saying that PBF winning by SD rather than UD would change the amount of money being won or lost? Isn't a win a win ragardless of TKO or SD or UD in betting? I am only asking because obviously, I DON'T KNOW.

I think in places like Las Vegas you can bet it in a number of ways. The most common way is to bet the length of the fight, like the second Ali / Liston fight which was not predicted to end so early. I have seen a lot of different types of odds on fights though. I assume that if there are odds on split decision vs UD or knockout then one must be able to bet that way.

Anyway, don't pay too much attention to me anyway. I'm just really trying to say that there are WAY too many ways to cheat and win in boxing. You probably all remember the Foreman / Briggs fight....

[Guru_Too_You]

The last major fight that seemed not on the level was Coggi/GonzalesI. Before that there was whispers about Ramirez/WhitakerI; and I believe is it generally considered Everett/Escalera was fixed.

The last major fighter to be banned for fixing was I believe Pep, who was banned for life in New York for the Lulu Perez farce.

Ramirez Whitaker I is the most horribly judged boxing match I've ever seen, save for the Roy Jones amatuer fiasco in Seoul.

[Darthmage]

You can bet on a UD, SD, Draw, stoppage, stoppage in what round, over-under, etc...

Lots to choose from.

I see! So thats why. Hmmm from now on I will be paying more attention to stuff like this.

[He Hate Me]

would oscar have strength in him to slamm his fist on the canvas as hard as he did, or did he fully recover from the shot at that point ?

[dav8d777]

I completely understand what your saying, in the gym where i go i dont know anyone that hasnt gotten the wind knocked out of them. You just keep fighting and hope it goes away, then again I was hit with a body shot and my lights went out thank god it was in sparring cause if it was a real fight I would of been like delahoya down for the count.

I watched a rerun on HBO of Johnny Gonzalez (118 lb division) losing a fight with one body punch. He had been tatooing this guy for about six rounds, but the other fellow hit him in the liver. Gonzalez took two steps back then grimaced and fell. You couldn't see any breath going in and out of him.

[Wige247]

Some one who doesn't want to get hit flush anymore.

The problem isn't that he went down from that punch, the problem is that he stayed down to avoid further punishment. Bernard had all his weight on his right foot, was leaning to the right and threw an arm punch with his left.


100% wrong. Hopkins jumps in w/ his left foot forward, is leaning left, and throws the left hook to the body. It's the same form that most body punchers use when they deliver that killing blow. Look at Hatton vs. Castillo for the latest example of that form being used.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Guru_Too_You]

100% wrong. Hopkins jumps in w/ his left foot forward, is leaning left, and throws the left hook to the body. It's the same form that most body punchers use when they deliver that killing blow. Look at Hatton vs. Castillo for the latest example of that form being used.


You are much more correct than I thought. He did have pretty solid form on that one, and he did set it up with a pawing jab first.

My recollection came from when he fell moreso than when he was hit.

I'm still not sold on it being a fight stopper.

[Wige247]

I put the link up...

Look at :15 mark...you see B-hop's form right before he delivers the punch
Look at :16 mark...you see B-hops form right after he delivers the punch

Where did he manage to switch his stance & footing and then switch it back in that 1 sec?

[Snakefist]

Some one who doesn't want to get hit flush anymore.

The problem isn't that he went down from that punch, the problem is that he stayed down to avoid further punishment. Bernard had all his weight on his right foot, was leaning to the right and threw an arm punch with his left.

There is no way that that punch should have kept Oscar down. Sure, it may have been placed in the perfect spot to drop him, but in no way shape or form should that have ended the fight. Watch Castillo when he had 4 ribs broken. You don't roll around and punch shit. You don't drop all the way to the canvas, you take a knee and dont move because it hurts too much to move.

Very suspect, but certainly not a fix.

When Hill got hit by that body shot from Roy Jones he was out on his back in agony. But he did try to get back up, even with the ribs that were broken, but you could feel his pain. Castillo tried to get back up but his leg started to quiver under him and basically you could see that he couldn't get back up at all. Imo he has weak ribs, Hatton hit him hard but not with his best body shot. Jones shot to Hill's ribs was hard as hell, made a hellish shot when you hard those ribs snap.

[Marnoff]

The thing with Oscar is I am as sure as you can be that he didn't throw it. It makes no sense why someone in his position would throw a fight. There's too much money on the line for him if he can win. He knows that winning means more money. However, like has been pointed out by others, it is possible that by that point in the fight he was tired of being hit and knew he was running out of energy an figured this would save him from more punishment. It definitely was not a fix, and he didn't go in planning on throwing it, but he found a good spot to go out.

STILL, THOUGH, maybe the punch was better than it seems. No question he could have found a better time to go down, if he was really planning on throwing it. Very confusing situation, but in no way was there ill-intent, nor was it pre-meditated.

[Marnoff]

When Hill got hit by that body shot from Roy Jones he was out on his back in agony. But he did try to get back up, even with the ribs that were broken, but you could feel his pain. Castillo tried to get back up but his leg started to quiver under him and basically you could see that he couldn't get back up at all. Imo he has weak ribs, Hatton hit him hard but not with his best body shot. Jones shot to Hill's ribs was hard as hell, made a hellish shot when you hard those ribs snap.

He has weak ribs? Is that why he lasted as a sparring partner with Chavez?

[Marnoff]

100% wrong. Hopkins jumps in w/ his left foot forward, is leaning left, and throws the left hook to the body. It's the same form that most body punchers use when they deliver that killing blow. Look at Hatton vs. Castillo for the latest example of that form being used.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Yes, and if you look it seems like Oscar moves at moment of impact the wrong way. I think it caught him in a good spot when he wasn't prepared.

[Snakefist]

He has weak ribs? Is that why he lasted as a sparring partner with Chavez?
How long ago was that??? So Hatton is a better body puncher then Chavez, is what you are eluding to?????

[Lampley]

Oscar's delayed reaction looks like the reaction of many guys who get KOd with body shots. He just caught unprepared in the wrong spot by a naturally larger man.

[Illmatic]

in the early part of George Foreman's comback, a few bums were said to have taken dives.

Emmanuel Augustus took a dive, Jeremy Williams, Jake Lamotta.

[Lampley]

I remember one of Mickey Rourke's KO victims saying he took a dive.

[Lampley]

Oh, and the one bum Rahman fought on TV a few years ago. Not a fix, but just someone who wanted to collect a check and not absorb any punishment.

[Marnoff]

How long ago was that??? So Hatton is a better body puncher then Chavez, is what you are eluding to?????

What do you cite as evidence that Castillo has weak ribs? This knockout from Hatton?

[ThePlugInBabies]

Oh, and the one bum Rahman fought on TV a few years ago. Not a fix, but just someone who wanted to collect a check and not absorb any punishment.

mario cawley, hilarious :rofl

ZFS_4SLMfac

[box03]

Oh, and the one bum Rahman fought on TV a few years ago. Not a fix, but just someone who wanted to collect a check and not absorb any punishment.Are you taking about kali meehan when he fought rahman in 04, the man ate alot of over hand rights in that fight. I dont rock was pulling his punches in that fight.

[ThePlugInBabies]

lampley be talking about what i just posted above.

[Wige247]

mario cawley, hilarious :rofl

ZFS_4SLMfac

HOLY CRAP!!!! That is the most blatant & disgusting case of taking a fall that I have ever seen! I'm talking like even WWE has more convincing fights than that. I hope that guy is banned for life & fined & investigated by the federal government in some sort of racketeering charge.

[Lampley]

lampley be talking about what i just posted above.

Yep. Thanks for linking that. People think Tyson/Seldon is bad; it has nothing on Rahman/Cawley.

That's the kind of dive that could have produced a class action lawsuit by fans.

[pipe wrenched]

I don't remember the loser's name but it was someone fighting Butterbean, pretty much fallin before he even got hit. It was on classic not too long ago and i remember Atlas was going off! He just kept saying "that's ridiculous!!"

[Bigcat]

Rahman v Cawley was excellent entertainment................

i remember that one..

tremendous comedy

[Vantage_West]

I can only half-understand what you just said. Are you saying that PBF winning by SD rather than UD would change the amount of money being won or lost? Isn't a win a win ragardless of TKO or SD or UD in betting? I am only asking because obviously, I DON'T KNOW.well if your at a betting parlour they have ud sd or md on special bets.

so if a judge was just told to make it a sd...then that makes a big big deal of money becuase it was an obscure bet and the odds are bigger.

it doesnt change the fight but it allows alot of money to a certain person

[Toopretty]

The thing with hatton he never dropped anybody from a single shot like that..and Castillo being a mexican fighter took those kind of liver shots from harder punchers then hatton. Makes you think..Hatton does not have that much power..He normally breaks guys down with numerous of those type of shots..Not just one...Cotto is more fierce to the body being as though he has more power and about the same hand speed.

[Vantage_West]

How long ago was that??? So Hatton is a better body puncher then Chavez, is what you are eluding to?????:lol::lol::lol: oh your joking around i getcha......weak ribs good one very witty

[ThePlugInBabies]

The thing with hatton he never dropped anybody from a single shot like that..and Castillo being a mexican fighter took those kind of liver shots from harder punchers then hatton. Makes you think..Hatton does not have that much power..He normally breaks guys down with numerous of those type of shots..Not just one...Cotto is more fierce to the body being as though he has more power and about the same hand speed.

i'll need to watch it again but i'm pretty sure hatton had been working the body over leading up to the KO. it seemed like he had weakend JLC beforehand as far as i remember.

[Illmatic]

I always thought Lewis-Tua was fixed. Tua won the first few rounds then stopped for no apparent reason.

that apparent reason was lewis' punches ricocheting off his face

[ozziebattler]

In the moder era of boxing do you recall a match were you thought a fighter threw a fight. I don't hold this belief but some believe the dela hoya vs bernard hopkins fight was a little suspect.

Why would oscar throw that fight??

MONEY/?NOOOOO he got 100's of millions of that..

Cant see any other reason why a fighter of oscars pedigree would throw a fight and suffer another L on his pro record.

Im sure oscar would of loved to have Hopkins name on his win sheet.

[Napoleon]

I would bet everything I had that De La Hoya could of won the fight against Mayweather if he tried even a little. For my it looked like Hoya was holding everything back and didn't even try to win.

[Napoleon]

DelaHoya won the Mayweather fight. When the decision was read I was like this: :shock:

Don't be redicilous. De La Hoya did nothing to that whole entire fight.:roll:

[Thread Stealer]

All Lewis did was jab, when jabs derail someone who stood up to Ibeabuchi's best without getting rocked... let's just say something doesn't add up.

Lewis landed some nice right hands. They made Tua tenative.

It's no coincidence that Lewis's right hand can make guys more careful when they try to get inside.

[dave82]

I maybe wrong, however from memory i thought Tyson vs Seldon looked very suspicious.

[He Hate Me]

What ever happened to tysons world tour exhibitons, I heard sanders let him off the hook.

[caballo]

I don't know if you would call this the modern era, but the one fight where it was clear to me the fighter had thrown the fight was Jerry Quarry vs. Lorenzo Zanon. It was a comeback fight for Quarry. Zanon outboxed him over the first 8 rounds of a 10 round fight. In the ninth, Zanon went down and out from a powderpuff right. It was clear to me he had taken a dive.

[Thread Stealer]

I don't know if you would call this the modern era, but the one fight where it was clear to me the fighter had thrown the fight was Jerry Quarry vs. Lorenzo Zanon. It was a comeback fight for Quarry. Zanon outboxed him over the first 8 rounds of a 10 round fight. In the ninth, Zanon went down and out from a powderpuff right. It was clear to me he had taken a dive.

I don't know, from what I've seen of Zanon, it didn't take much to put him on his ass.

He had some of the most humorous knockdowns.

[caballo]

I don't know, from what I've seen of Zanon, it didn't take much to put him on his ass.

He had some of the most humorous knockdowns.
Really? I know he wasn't exactly a sturdy oak. Maybe not. It looked very shady to me at the time.

[Saltzy]

The black rhino.


Yea I was suspect after the Tyson fight when he took out his mouthpeice, however when he fought Calvin Brock after being knocked down he took out his mouthpeice each time so it seems thats just a messed up reaction that he does when getting kd'd?