Is there ANYONE in the HW division right now that can beat the Klitschko bros?

[RAMPAGE0017]

I know this has been discussed before, but you know.. time passes, things change, and so do opinions. So is there anyone out there right now who you feel can beat either of the Klitschko, or is their hold on the division still as strong as it was?

[RAMPAGE0017]

Everyone with a 70%+ KO rate has a puncher's chance against him, just like every heavyweight champ that's ever been.


What about Vitali?

[2smart4u]

:smoke yep ! and its guys nobody has heard of yet ! but they are always there !

[El Bombasto]

What about Vitali?

Anyone that can handle taking a beating for 12 rounds and hope that VK injures himself.

[box03]

I have 3 fighters who have a good chance of beating wlad in the ring 3. Vaulev has a chance because of his size and ability to take a punch it seems. 2. Oliver Mccall has chance because he has a granite chin and wont be afraid of mixing it up with wlad, I think theres a good chance of him repeating what he did to Lewis in there first fight. 1. Sam Peter in my opinion has the best chance of beating wlad, his chin is granite and his power is second only to wlads. The toney fights has improved his abilities, and the fact he put wlad down 3 times in there last fight between makes me think he will do it again.

[yogster740]

I agree...Sam Peter has the best chance. I was very impressed by his improvements showcased in his last bout against Toney.....his boxing, movement, balance, all looked better.

[Marnoff]

Peter is the only one with a real chance. They all have a "chance", but Peter is the only real threat, though I would definitely favour Klitschko.

[DanePugilist]

I keep saying this as the only one: The Klitschkos should meet each other.

[teke]

I believe there currently is noone who can beat them.

[brooklyn1550]

If they are at the top of their game, I wouldn't favor anybody over them. The biggest threat seems to be Peter, but I wouldn't pick him over Wlad or Vitali.

[cuchulain]

I would rank them one and two at the moment.

But they can be beaten.

No-one is unbeatable.

[Asterion]

Ibragimov....no.
Chageav.....he's ill.
Maskaev....fuck no.
Valuev.....probably not.

Sam Peter has the biggest chance. But Wlad already beat him once.

[Rock0052]

Peter and Povetkin, if he continues developing, have the best chances although I can't really favor either of them. Chagaev was an interesting matchup due to his chin and power, but I have to see how he comes back from that hepatitis first.

Anyone else...I couldn't give a 20% chance of beating Wlad. VK, on the other hand, who knows- we'll get a better idea when he see how much rust he can kick off in his comeback.

[T.S.]

I don't see anyone beating Wlad in the next two years and I'll put my money where my big mouth is.
Vitali on the other hand has an uphill battle. Ring rust, passed his prime.
Might even have hard time with McCline.

[Blacc Jesus]

Sam Peter.

[carras]

sam peter has the better chance

[Decker]

Agree with most here. Currently Peter has the best chance. Hard to tell what Vitali has after his layoff. Like someone wrote above, maybe McCline gives him a tough fight. Wlad easily beat "big time" years ago, when he (WK) was worse than he is now. But then again Wlad doesn't have his borthers punch resistance. Still, I'd favor Wlad over any top HW today.

[Odo]

I for sure would favour Wlad over any present heavyweight,but there are fighters out there who have a puncher's chance against him.
Huge Ukranian banger Virchis is a threat to any present heavy including both Klitschko brothers due to his murderous firepower.
Though Sam Peter doesnt have as much pop in his fists as Virchis he,too,has a puncher's chance against Wlad.
Povetkin has enough firepower,too.
Last but not least Ruslan Chagaev seems to be able to upset Wlad,too.

[Cachibatches]

Chagaev if he comes back.

Iron Chin. so he can withstand the power.
Has gotten inside agaisnt bigger guys like Valuev and Virchis.
Throws a lot of punhes, can win a decision.

He has some pop, but probably couldn't knock Wladdy out.

[Ilesey]

I would say that Peter probably has the best chance, followed by Ibragimov and Chagaev.

[box03]

Wlads biggest weakness is his chin and that will never change, not even the best trainer in the world manny steward can change that. Though he has learned to deal with his weak chin a little better, my only question is who has even been able to get to his chin since peter 05. The fighter that will beat Wlad is someone that could take a punch and that can also give one in the process, someone that will take the fight to him.

[H .]

I'd say Chagaev if he comes back. He's shown that he doesn't have a problem with size (Valuev) and can survive even the most affectionate of the huggy bears (Ruiz).

[Dorfmeister]

Wlad Klitschko is at the very top right now and it would be foolish to deny such a statement but if that's not arguable, then this assumptions are not to be taken lightly 2 - Maskaev, Chagaev, Peter, Povetkin and Holyfield have all the punch to shake Wlad to his core, Thompson has the style to make it very difficult and close for him, Valuev, Lyakhovich would David Tua would give him very hard fights so not only he's beatable as there's nothing like a strong hold on the Division whatsover - The Flipside of all this is that Wlad gets knocked out one more time and career may be over, from the top to retirement at the speed of one punch. Vitaly's case in the HWT Division is so uncertain that doesn't deserve more attention than any other hwt...

[RUSKULL]

Wlad Klitschko is at the very top right now and it would be foolish to deny such a statement but if that's not arguable, then this assumptions are not to be taken lightly 2 - Maskaev, Chagaev, Peter, Povetkin and Holyfield have all the punch to shake Wlad to his core, Thompson has the style to make it very difficult and close for him, Valuev, Lyakhovich would David Tua would give him very hard fights so not only he's beatable as there's nothing like a strong hold on the Division whatsover - The Flipside of all this is that Wlad gets knocked out one more time and career may be over, from the top to retirement at the speed of one punch. Vitaly's case in the HWT Division is so uncertain that doesn't deserve more attention than any other hwt...

If for some strange reason Wlad were to lose a fight by TKO again his career would NOT be over.

Wladimir is an easy favorite against any current Heavyweight - period.

As far as Vitali is concerned, it remains to be seen how much he has left. I'm betting he's got a lot since I don't think he'd be coming back at all if he weren't confident himself. That's good enough for me anyway.

[box03]

If for some strange reason Wlad were to lose a fight by TKO again his career would NOT be over.

Wladimir is an easy favorite against any current Heavyweight - period.

As far as Vitali is concerned, it remains to be seen how much he has left. I'm betting he's got a lot since I don't think he'd be coming back at all if he weren't confident himself. That's good enough for me anyway. since you are big klit brother fan who would you rather see unify Wlad or Vitali?

[Kamil]

Sam Peter

[somerset]

Ike Ibeabuchi :hey

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

ross purity

[natep]

Chagaev if he comes back.

Iron Chin. so he can withstand the power.
Has gotten inside agaisnt bigger guys like Valuev and Virchis.
Throws a lot of punhes, can win a decision.

He has some pop, but probably couldn't knock Wladdy out.
Completey agree. Peter has improved since his fight with Wlad but so has Wlad. I'd like to see a rematch.

[Dekkers]

I'll reasses after Vitalis' next fight but atm, I'd give Peter a chance against Wlad and Povetkin to beat Vitali, but not vice-versa.

[RUSKULL]

since you are big klit brother fan who would you rather see unify Wlad or Vitali?

I'm a fan of both brothers so I don't favor one to unify over the other. In fact I just want unification to happen already & I don't care who comes out on top. I would prefer one of the Klitschkos but Chagaev, Ibragimov, Maskaev, Peter, Holyfield, etc. Just get it done.

[RUSKULL]

I'll reasses after Vitalis' next fight but atm, I'd give Peter a chance against Wlad and Povetkin to beat Vitali, but not vice-versa.

Interesting, and for the most part I agree. Peter being a big puncher with a solid chin has a decent chance aginst Wlad but so does Chagaev.

From the limited footage I've seen Povetkin may have the tools to beat Vitali since he's fast, very busy & has a decent chin so far anyway.

[Dekkers]

Interesting, and for the most part I agree. Peter being a big puncher with a solid chin has a decent chance aginst Wlad but so does Chagaev.

From the limited footage I've seen Povetkin may have the tools to beat Vitali since he's fast, very busy & has a decent chin so far anyway.
The thing with Chagaev for me is that, he's not as aggressive as Peter, he's a decent puncher and a southpaw, but I don't think he brings the necessary pressure against Wlad. When Chag was younger he was much faster with his hands and feet, if he was still that fighter I'd give him a good chance, atm i'm inclined to think he'll lose a clear decision or be stopped late because he does have a solid chin. I don't think he'll effectively negotiate that jab, not enough quickness in his footwork, or his handspeed, and not enough aggression to make Wlad uncomfortable.

[Odo]

I would say that Peter probably has the best chance, followed by Ibragimov and Chagaev.

Ibragimov? he cant crack an egg with his punches,and drawed with Austin,and had to go the full route with Osokin.
Styles make fights.He has the totally wrong style to beat Wlad IMO.
Ibragimov is more or less on Byrd's level.And you surely know how Byrd fared against Wlad.

A big puncher like Virchis or Peter would be a real threat to Wlad IMO.

[heerko koois]

Oliver McCall 25% chance.....Holyfield 25%......Maskaev 20%......
Peter 40 %.... Chagaev [ when healhty ] 30 % ....

[Irish Steel]

Peter cant beat wlad, but I would say he has the best chance.

[A-50]

The ONLY way to beat Vitali Klitschko is through injury. This has been proven twice already. Wlad Klitschko has a Glas Jaw, that is the way to beat him. NOBODY around today in the Heavyweight Division would beat Vitali Klitschko.

[paulfv]

To answer the thread starter's question:

Nope. No one who is currently in the HW division (who is healthy) is going to to beat either Klitschko, at least at the present moment (that is, before some of the 'next wave' get more experience).


If I had to pick someone I would either pick Virchis or Povetkin, and that would be against Wlad only. Holyfield could have a shot against Wlad if he just jumped all over him and Wlad fought foolishly.

If Vitali is healthy (a big 'if') and does not suffer a cut (only happened once in his pro boxing career), no one beats him. We have already seen that.

Chagaev is ill. Peter lost 10 of 12 rounds to Wlad the first time, and would be KO'd/TKO'd in a rematch, with Wlad sitting down on his punches more if they met again.

If either brother were to unify I would imagine it would be Wlad, as Vitali is older and has had more injury problems. Guess we'll find out. The Eastern European boxing invasion contines, even if 'no defense' Oganov (sp?) looked weak last night. The HW division belongs to the Klitschkos until further notice. Control the heavyweight division (unless you are ODLH), control the sport.

Peace. :good :thumbsup :good


EDIT:

Hey, cute avatar switch by our vanquished-by-me-in-an-argument-on-another-thread mod. Touchy, touchy. Ha ha.

Same old, same old -- if you don't want bit in the butt, don't go around trying to kick the dog. *sigh* Some people never learn. The guy defending himself gets 'blamed' again. *shakes head sadly*

[boxingcar]

Povetkin

[Decker]

Good analysis paulfv. So you think the slow but powerful Virchis has a better chance vs Wlad than Vitali? Do you think Vitali's better chin is a greater asset than Wlad's all around better boxing vs The Hunter? If Wlad can handle Peter for 12, I think he'd have as good a chance vs Virchis. But if Vitali gets into trading bombs with Virchis... who knows?

[Heavyrighthand]

The quick answer is *no*.

I think either brother would beat, if not destroy, any other heavy out there.

That is what any reasonable fight fan would conclude, as well. The brothers are both better than EVERY other heavy, period.

The only one who would stand a chance at beating one of them would be Peter, and that's cause he has a solid punch (altough an overrated punch) and an uncanny ability to take a beating, and keep coming. And if Peter were in against eitherK brother, a beating is what Peter would get.

After Peter and his iron chin, I don't see anyone standing much of a chance against either brother. That's not bias, that's merely a reasonable conclulsion.

[box03]

Any fighter who has a solid chin and heavy punch has a decent chance of beating Wlad, yes Wlad has honed his skills over the years with help of the best trainer in the world manny steward but he still and always will have a weak chin that will get exposed from time to time. And I believe Wlads time is almost up, and I have a feeling Tuas' going to be the one to do it.

[Heavyrighthand]

I believe Wlads time is almost up,

Yeah, he does seem to be getting progressively worse and is just barely winning his fights, isn't he? :blood

You are right, his time is almost up. He barely got by Brewster, and just squeeked by Austin by the skin of his teeth.

:huh

[box03]

Yeah, he does seem to be getting progressively worse and is just barely winning his fights, isn't he? :blood

You are right, his time is almost up. He barely got by Brewster, and just squeeked by Austin by the skin of his teeth.

:huh I never said hes getting worse I said hes better fighter than he was 3 to 4 years ago, all im saying is theres going to come a time soon where hes going to be tested and I honestly believe he will crumble again.

[paulfv]

Thanks, Decker.

We still have to see how Vitali looks in his comeback, but if the '2.0' version looks anything like the original, I can't see him having a tougher time with Virchis (or anyone else) than would Wlad. Vitali has shown none of the pacing/stamina/nerves/chin issues Wlad has demonstrated, and is as dominant a force at heavyweight I have seen since '86-'89 Tyson, or before that, Holmes prior to his facing Michael Spinks

The only ***** in Vitali's armor (and it is a big *****, or is a big ***** for him as there have been no other *****s in his armor) is his capacity to get injured. I think his injury susceptibility is due to his kickboxing career, although his one significant boxing injury - sustained in the fight with Chris Byrd - was a shoulder injury, and not a back/lower body injury.

The fight with Lewis involved an injury, but the injury was due to a cut sustained during the fight, and was not related to a pre-existing condition of Vitali's, so I put it in a different category than the shoulder injury suffered against Byrd. I'm not saying Vitali had shoulder injuries before he fought Byrd, but he has shown he has problems with musculo-skeletal issues, as was the case in his calling off the Rahman fight. And the cut he sustained against Lewis was the only cut of his pro boxing career, before or since that fight. Certainly the only cut significant enough to affect the outcome of a fight (a fight in which he was ahead on all cards).

So, in his 37 pro boxing fights, Vitali has been injured twice, once involving a cut. These are the only two times he has not won a pro boxing match in which he fought. He has also called-off at least one fight (several times) due to injury. So injuries seem to be Vitali's only 'Achilles' heel.' Besides that, he seems unbeatable. And not only unbeatable but dramatically so, as 34 of his 35 victories came via knock-outs.

The last HW, to me, who was as physically imposing and destructive as Vitali has been (i.e, who just scared and destroyed people) was Foreman. Unfortunately for Big George, he happened to run into the greatest HW of all-time. Suffice it to say, there are no Alis in the division right now.

I think if Wlad and Vitali fought 100 times, Vitali would win all 100. He's far too mentally strong for Wlad - or anyone else in the HW division - IMO.
- - - - - - - - - -

I do want to make one correction to my previous post. Someone mentioned Valuev as one of the most formidable possible challenges to the Klitschkos. I agree with that opinion, and would have to put Valuev as my top possible threat to Wlad (not Vitali) over Virchis.

Until seeing that post, I had forgotten about Valuev. But Valuev does have, IMO, the experience, the size and the chin to challenge Wlad. I think if Valuev fought well and Wlad got out of his gameplan (which we all know has happened with Wlad in previous bouts), Valuev could defeat Wlad and possibly even stop Wlad via TKO. If Wlad fought smart he would win easily, IMO, but there is no guarantee that would happen when and if Wlad were presented with such a unique opponent as Valuev woud be. I could see Wlad losing that fight, although I would favor Wlad going into that match-up if it were to take place today.

Peace.

[Dekkers]

Good analysis paulfv. So you think the slow but powerful Virchis has a better chance vs Wlad than Vitali? Do you think Vitali's better chin is a greater asset than Wlad's all around better boxing vs The Hunter? If Wlad can handle Peter for 12, I think he'd have as good a chance vs Virchis. But if Vitali gets into trading bombs with Virchis... who knows?

I can already tell there's going to be confusion, to bad Deckards' not around anymore :lol:

[barneyrub]

The ONLY way to beat Vitali Klitschko is through injury. This has been proven twice already. Wlad Klitschko has a Glas Jaw, that is the way to beat him. NOBODY around today in the Heavyweight Division would beat Vitali Klitschko.Well being punched in the head usually causes an injury! its not a tickle you kow.

How did he get injured in the Lewis fight? Let me tell you, he got injured by Lewis`s fists!

[barneyrub]

vitali will beat peter before he fets a chance to face wlad. I believe that is the only reason vitali came back, to protect his brother.

[TheGreat]

Wlad looks really good, he is more talented and skilled than Vitaly But Vitaly is tougher, Wlad is the best IMO however he is beatable as for Vitaly he is the single most overrated fighter of all time so before saying he is invincible lets see what he can do with Journeyman McCline first.

[box03]

Nobody rules these streets at night but the ATOMIC BULL, and the Frankenstein Sisters are going to get GORED. :fire I thought I was the only that thought Mccall had a decent chance of beting Wlad I guess not, whos Mccall fighting next juan carlos gomez?

[TheGreat]

vitali will beat peter before he fets a chance to face wlad. I believe that is the only reason vitali came back, to protect his brother.

Call me crazy but I think Peter matches up better with Vitaly as he is not as fast, skilled, cordinated or as hard a puncher as Wlad but he will not panic like Wlad either so it is hard to tell who would win but before we even think about them fighting we need to see what Vitaly will do against McCline.

[paulfv]

Well being punched in the head usually causes an injury! its not a tickle you kow.

How did he get injured in the Lewis fight? Let me tell you, he got injured by Lewis`s fists!
You are correct, sir!

Although let's not forget the rubbing of the dreadlocks into the wound, etc.

My point was that it was a fluke, and not something which has ever happened before or since with Vitali. His 'Achilles' heel' may be injuries, but they still are, relatively speaking, very infrequent, particularly the one-time-only cut which affected the Lewis fight.

Don't worry, the ledger will forever read "Lewis TKO 6 V. Klitschko." Not even I could change that. Ha ha. :)

[paulfv]

I also would love to see McCall-Wlad.

That could be a very interesting fight, depending on what the Atomic Bull has left. I'm assuming he doesn't have enough, but I could be wrong, as the 4-years-older-than-McCall Evander Holyfield still seems to have a lot left.

[box03]

I also would love to see McCall-Wlad.

That could be a very interesting fight, depending on what the Atomic Bull has left. I'm assuming he doesn't have enough, but I could be wrong, as the 4-years-older-than-McCall Evander Holyfield still seems to have a lot left. Anybody who posses a granite chin like Mccall has a chance, he shocked the world before when he knocked Lewis out with one punch. He can certainly do it again on Waldo.

[TheGreat]

I also would love to see McCall-Wlad.

That could be a very interesting fight, depending on what the Atomic Bull has left. I'm assuming he doesn't have enough, but I could be wrong, as the 4-years-older-than-McCall Evander Holyfield still seems to have a lot left.

:rofl Holy is completely shot, the fact that he is fighting for the WBOGUS title says just how Bogus the WBO is and the sad state of HW boxing today.

[andyZOR]

Chagaev if he comes back.

Iron Chin. so he can withstand the power.
Has gotten inside agaisnt bigger guys like Valuev and Virchis.
Throws a lot of punhes, can win a decision.

He has some pop, but probably couldn't knock Wladdy out.

Agreed. Chagaev has the best chance to beat Wlad right now.

[paulfv]

:rofl Holy is completely shot, the fact that he is fighting for the WBOGUS title says just how Bogus the WBO is and the sad state of HW boxing today.

The left hook he landed to drop Savarese could have hurt just about anyone, IMO. I'm not saying Holyfield is 'clean,' but he seems to have a lot left, one way or another. And he always has had the chin.

I think EH beats Ibragimov when they fight, I really do. Ibragimov could easily beat him, but I think Holyfield will turn it into a war and end up hurting/dropping/stopping Sultan, a fighter whom I have a lot of respect for (and who will always have a special place in my heart for ridding us of Shannon Briggs).

[TheGreat]

The left hook he landed to drop Savarese could have hurt just about anyone, IMO. I'm not saying Holyfield is 'clean,' but he seems to have a lot left, one way or another. And he always has had the chin.

I think EH beats Ibragimov when they fight, I really do. Ibragimov could easily beat him, but I think Holyfield will turn it into a war and end up hurting/dropping/stopping Sultan, a fighter whom I have a lot of respect for (and who will always have a special place in my heart for ridding us of Shannon Briggs).

Tyson took all of 37 seconds to KO Savarese in his prime who today is a very shot journeyman at this point, go watch his fights with Byrd, Donald, and Toney and tell me he ain't completely washed up, Wlad would destroy him as would any good HW today.

[paulfv]

Tyson took all of 37 seconds to KO Savarese in his prime who today is a very shot journeyman at this point, go watch his fights with Byrd, Donald, and Toney and tell me he ain't completely washed up, Wlad would destroy him as would any good HW today.


Savarese sucks, no doubt. But he's always been fairly durable, particularly to one shot. Tyson landed HUGE shots on him and he still didn't go down.

Holyfield dropped him with 1 shot. Evander still has power, and he still has a chin. And he has skill. That makes him better than about 80% of the current HW division from the get-go.

[TheGreat]

Savarese sucks, no doubt. But he's always been fairly durable, particularly to one shot. Tyson landed HUGE shots on him and he still didn't go down.

Holyfield dropped him with 1 shot. Evander still has power, and he still has a chin. And he has skill. That makes him better than about 80% of the current HW division from the get-go.
Sadly I agree with you about today's crappy division but if EH were to bcome a major player again this division would be even worse than I thought it was.

[paulfv]

Sadly I agree with you about today's crappy division but if EH were to bcome a major player again this division would be even worse than I thought it was.

I agree.

I don't think EH will be a major player again, but I do think he has a good chance at beating Sultan and getting a belt back. After that, he might just retire (or find some even better 'fountain of youth' drugs for himself and continue to fight, or fight even if he doesn't find any better drugs, which is, probably unfortunately, his likely course of action if he beats Sultan).