Jerry Quarry and Joe Louis,

[yancey]

prime for prime.

Would Jerry have much of a chance in this one?

What happens?

[mcvey]

prime for prime.

Would Jerry have much of a chance in this one?

What happens?
Louis opens cuts up on Jerry's face with his jab and bombs him out in 8rds.

[BUDW]

Jerry hangs tough for about 3-4 rds the Joe's shots take there toll and jerry is done in 5-6 rds

[ChrisPontius]

Similar to the first Frazier fight: Quarry gets in some good shots in the opening round, but takes several, harder ones, in return and is lambasted for the remaining 3-4 rounds of the match.

[mr. magoo]

I love Jerry Quarry, but I think Louis is just all wrong for him. Those fast and lethal combinations early on would be very dangerous, and I think Jerry would get hurt in there. Now, I agree with Chris that Quarry would have a chance at having a few good moments early on, but in the end I think he loses big.

[dezbeast]

I believe Jerry would have the edge in this matchup. He was more skilled and harder punching than Schmeling. I don't ever see Louis blowing out a prime Quarry. Even Frazier had a difficult time wIth him. And Quarry had no problem with super sluggers of his time like Shavers, Lyle and Mac Foster.

[janitor]

I believe Jerry would have the edge in this matchup. He was more skilled and harder punching than Schmeling.

Actualy he was neither.

[diamondDave]

Joe could be a slow starter and times and Jerry was extremely talented but stubborn...case in point the first Frazier fight...Jerry could win this fight. He had an extremely good chin, good power, excellent skills, and he loved to brawl. If Joe didn't take Jerry serious enough he would get beat and maybe even stopped early.

[djanders]

As much as I liked Quarry, and enjoyed his fights, I think Joe could beat him 10 out of 10 times.

[janitor]

Joe could be a slow starter and times and Jerry was extremely talented but stubborn...case in point the first Frazier fight...Jerry could win this fight. He had an extremely good chin, good power, excellent skills, and he loved to brawl. If Joe didn't take Jerry serious enough he would get beat and maybe even stopped early.

Quarry is not soe uncrowned champion who was unlucky to come allong at the wrong time. He simply wasnt that good.

He lost to the best of his era because he wasnt in their class and he would have lost to the best in Louis's era and I dont just mean Louis.

[mr. magoo]

Quarry is not soe uncrowned champion who was unlucky to come allong at the wrong time. He simply wasnt that good.

He lost to the best of his era because he wasnt in their class and he would have lost to the best in Louis's era and I dont just mean Louis.


I think its fair to say that the opposition of the late 60's to mid 70's was a better crop than that of the 30's and 40's ( though I realize you never have and never will agree with this claim. )

I don't see Quarry beating Louis, Marciano, Walcott or Charles. But, I CAN see him beating Braddock, Sharky, Carnera, and on the right night even Baer. He was a very talented counter puncher who possesed a fair amount speed, power, and durability. He fought during what many consider to be the best heavyweight era ever, and was a top ranked contender for the better part of nearly a decade. He resoundingly defeated Floyd Patterson, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers - all were modern day black fighters of quality talent.

[janitor]

[quote=mr. magoo;4216084]I think its fair to say that the opposition of the late 60's to mid 70's was a better crop than that of the 30's and 40's ( though I realize you never have and never will agree with this claim. )


I have questioned but not disputed that the 70s was a stronger era than Louis's. While I believe it to be the case I think the asumption should be challenged more.

But lets accept for a moment that it is true.

Quarry didnt fare particularly well against the best of that era.

Ali and Frazier destroyed him and when he was given a chance to fight for the vacant title in a tournament from which both were eliminated he lost to Jimmy Ellis.

He wasnt just loosing to the elite of that era but he was also getting mixed results against the second teir.

I don't see Quarry beating Louis, Marciano, Walcott or Charles. But, I CAN see him beating Braddock, Sharky, Carnera, and on the right night even Baer.

So can I.

But as in his own era he would get mixed results.

He was a very talented counter puncher who possesed a fair amount speed, power, and durability. He fought during what many consider to be the best heavyweight era ever, and was a top ranked contender for the better part of nearly a decade. He resoundingly defeated Floyd Patterson, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers - all were modern day black fighters of quality talent.

I wouldnt exactly say that he resoundingly beat Floyd Patterson.

Some observers thought Patterson won both fights.

[mcvey]

I think its fair to say that the opposition of the late 60's to mid 70's was a better crop than that of the 30's and 40's ( though I realize you never have and never will agree with this claim. )

I don't see Quarry beating Louis, Marciano, Walcott or Charles. But, I CAN see him beating Braddock, Sharky, Carnera, and on the right night even Baer. He was a very talented counter puncher who possesed a fair amount speed, power, and durability. He fought during what many consider to be the best heavyweight era ever, and was a top ranked contender for the better part of nearly a decade. He resoundingly defeated Floyd Patterson, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers - all were modern day black fighters of quality talent.

I think a prime Sharky and Baer both beat Quarry.
Quarry did NOT resoundingly beat Patterson ,the scores were 6-6 7-6 7-6.
Their first fight was a draw with both men down.Floyd was 32 in their second fight.

[mr. magoo]

=janitor;4216156]


I have questioned but not disputed that the 70s was a stronger era than Louis's. While I believe it to be the case I think the asumption should be challenged more.


Fair enough.


Quarry didnt fare particularly well against the best of that era.

Ali and Frazier destroyed him and when he was given a chance to fight for the vacant title in a tournament from which both were eliminated he lost to Jimmy Ellis.


I'll give you the Ellis lost, but losing to prime versions of Ali and Frazier is something that I would have picked Baer, Carnera, Schmeling, Braddock, Sharkey and perhaps even Louis to do. No shame in having those defeats. Addiitionally, while Ellis is not on the level of an Ali or Frazier, he wasn't a bad fighter and a man who might have faired well in other eras.


He wasnt just loosing to the elite of that era but he was also getting mixed results against the second teir.


To some extent yes, but I'd say the pluses well outweighed the minuses.



So can I.

But as in his own era he would get mixed results.


He may very well have dropped a few defeats here and there. But, I do think his chances of being a world title holder would be very strong, even if just for brief period. Surely his prospects would be much stronger during the great depression
.


I wouldnt exactly say that he resoundingly beat Floyd Patterson.

Some observers thought Patterson won both fights.


Okay, but Floyd was an all time great facing a young Quarry, and was dropped on more than one occasion by him.. Maybe it wasn't a decisive win, but nor was it a decisive loss.

[Muchmoore]

Quarry is one of the most over rated fighters of all time. People like to say that he was one of the best non champions, but it's not like he just lost to the Ali's and Frazier's and smashed everyone else.

Quarry lost to Ellis for the WBA, lost to an old Eddie Machen (early in Quarrys career, though) lost to Chuvalo, and should of lost at least one of the fights against a past prime Floyd Patterson. His wins over Lyle, Shavers, Mac Foster, Thad Spencer, and Mathis soldify his status as one of the better fighters of the 70s, but he never belonged in the highest class but for some reason he's viewed by many as the best who never won the title.

Quarry would probably give Louis problems for a round or two like he did with Frazier, but he wouldn't last past 6.

[mr. magoo]

Quarry is one of the most over rated fighters of all time. People like to say that he was one of the best non champions, but it's not like he just lost to the Ali's and Frazier's and smashed everyone else.

Quarry lost to Ellis for the WBA, lost to an old Eddie Machen (early in Quarrys career, though) lost to Chuvalo, and should of lost at least one of the fights against a past prime Floyd Patterson. His wins over Lyle, Shavers, Mac Foster, Thad Spencer, and Mathis soldify his status as one of the better fighters of the 70s, but he never belonged in the highest class but for some reason he's viewed by many as the best who never won the title.

Quarry would probably give Louis problems for a round or two like he did with Frazier, but he wouldn't last past 6.


A fair post, but I disagree that he was overrrated. Though he did have a mixed bag career in terms of wins and losses, he steadily fought the very best of the division for nearly 10 years. Mind you, this was an exceptional period of heavyweights. Wins over Shavers, Lyle, Foster, Patterson, Mathis, Spencer, along with losses to Machen, Chuvalo, Ellis, Ali, Frazier and Norton, is a very dense resume to say the least. I don't know too many non-titlists who would do much better against that group of guys.

[Bokaj]

Louis beats Quarry every time. Going the distance would be the best Quarry possibly could hope for, and that wouldn't happen too often.

[Muchmoore]

A fair post, but I disagree that he was overrrated. Though he did have a mixed bag career in terms of wins and losses, he steadily fought the very best of the division for nearly 10 years. Mind you, this was an exceptional period of heavyweights. Wins over Shavers, Lyle, Foster, Patterson, Mathis, Spencer, along with losses to Machen, Chuvalo, Ellis, Ali, Frazier and Norton, is a very dense resume to say the least. I don't know too many non-titlists who would do much better against that group of guys.

He was fairly high in the second level of HW's for the era, but losing to Ellis, Machen, Chuvalo, and his fights with a past best Patterson shows that he was limited and wouldn't be a dominant fighter in any era.

There isn't an era in which Quarry holds a belt for a substantial time period imo.

[dezbeast]

Actualy he was neither.

Keep in mind that I was comparing both fighters at their peaks. I have no doubt that the best form of Quarry would have easily outpointed the Baer that KO'd Schmeling. I stick by my statement.

[mr. magoo]

He was fairly high in the second level of HW's for the era, but losing to Ellis, Machen, Chuvalo, and his fights with a past best Patterson shows that he was limited and wouldn't be a dominant fighter in any era.

There isn't an era in which Quarry holds a belt for a substantial time period imo.


I am not maintaining that he would be a dominant lineal champion. The idea that he could be a repeat contender or even a brief titlist in a weaker era than the one he actually fought in, is not very far fetched in my opinion. Though some will protest, I think Sharkey, Braddock, Carnera, and on the right night Schmeling or Baer could potentially be beatable opponents.

[janitor]

Keep in mind that I was comparing both fighters at their peaks. I have no doubt that the best form of Quarry would have easily outpointed the Baer that KO'd Schmeling. I stick by my statement.

If yuou think therewould be anything "easy" about it then you are living in a fantasy world.

Quarry might be able to outpoint Baer for stylistic reasons but he was nota fighter of the same calibre.

[janitor]

I am not maintaining that he would be a dominant lineal champion. The idea that he could be a repeat contender or even a brief titlist in a weaker era than the one he actually fought in, is not very far fetched in my opinion. Though some will protest, I think Sharkey, Braddock, Carnera, and on the right night Schmeling or Baer could potentially be beatable opponents.

OK lets say that Quarry does fight in the 30s.

Schmeling would can him up for dogmeat and it wouldnt be prety.

He might be able to beat Sharkey depending which version shows up. Not if it is the better version.

He might be able to beat Carnera, Baer or Braddock or he might not.

He would likley get a title shot at some point but it would be prety random as to whether he got it at a favourable point in the timeline or not.

So the bottom line is that he might be one of the short term champions of the era with a bit of luck or he might just be an also ran of the period. In the latter scenario I doubt that he would be particularly distinguished from some of the other also rans like Schaff, Loughran, Uzcdun etc. There were no shortage of good second teir fighters in that era whatever else you can say about it.

[mr. magoo]

OK lets say that Quarry does fight in the 30s.

Schmeling would can him up for dogmeat and it wouldnt be prety.

He might be able to beat Sharkey depending which version shows up. Not if it is the better version.

He might be able to beat Carnera, Baer or Braddock or he might not.

He would likley get a title shot at some point but it would be prety random as to whether he got it at a favourable point in the timeline or not.

So the bottom line is that he might be one of the short term champions of the era with a bit of luck or he might just be an also ran of the period. In the latter scenario I doubt that he would be particularly distinguished from some of the other also rans like Schaff, Loughran, Uzcdun etc. There were no shortage of good second teir fighters in that era whatever else you can say about it.

How do you know for a fact, exactly how he'd do? I myself, am not making any convictions one way or the other, but am apt to thinking that his chances of being a top flight heavyweight for several years are well better than average. The 30's and 40's were an era where the colour line was still very much in existence, no matter what people say about it. There were some decent sized heavyweights such as Carnera and Buddy Baer, but the average size was nothing mind boggling. Quarry's career end record in the 70's was something like 50-9-3-33 or close to that effect. On the surface that may look ordinary and on a similar plain to the level of most guys back in the great depression, but when you look at the level of comp and the names on that record, he quickley begins to pull away. There is a huge difference between losing to men Ali, Norton, Frazier and Ellis and men like Eddie Blunt, Jim Braddock, and a number of others. Sure, we can sit here and talk about the questionable decisions to Patterson as well as the loss to Machen, but at the end of the day, I'd say his list of wins and losses are still better than most of the champions from that period...

[diamondDave]

Quarry is not soe uncrowned champion who was unlucky to come allong at the wrong time. He simply wasnt that good.

He lost to the best of his era because he wasnt in their class and he would have lost to the best in Louis's era and I dont just mean Louis.


Who said Quarry was "soe uncrowned champion?" He fought in arguably the golden age of heavyweight boxing and gave a great account of himself. Had there been a crusierweight division in his day he would have held that title.

This is a quote from George Foreman straight from his website biggeorge.com

"Jerry Quarry is one of the best Heavyweights of all times. He out boxed Floyd Patterson out punched Earnie Shavers. He was flashy, good looking; but never became champion. Quarry boxed Jimmie Ellis and fought toe to toe Joe Frazier; on these occasions if he had only switched tactics he could have been Heavyweight Champion of the World. When I became Heavyweight Champion of the World I dodged him, purposely."

Your facts are off my friend and you obviously have not watched as much heavyweight boxing as Big George and myself.

[Muchmoore]

Who said Quarry was "soe uncrowned champion?" He fought in arguably the golden age of heavyweight boxing and gave a great account of himself. Had there been a crusierweight division in his day he would have held that title.

This is a quote from George Foreman straight from his website biggeorge.com

"Jerry Quarry is one of the best Heavyweights of all times. He out boxed Floyd Patterson out punched Earnie Shavers. He was flashy, good looking; but never became champion. Quarry boxed Jimmie Ellis and fought toe to toe Joe Frazier; on these occasions if he had only switched tactics he could have been Heavyweight Champion of the World. When I became Heavyweight Champion of the World I dodged him, purposely."

Your facts are off my friend and you obviously have not watched as much heavyweight boxing as Big George and myself.

:lol:

Quoting Big George Foreman is probably the worst thing you could do if you wanted to show facts.

[leverage]

I think that quarry was one of the best heavys never to win the title. He was a good all around fighter cursed with a penchant for cutting and being too stubborn. He often slugged when he should have boxed and this would be a fatal against louis. Quarry would have his moments against louis, perhaps even putting him down but it would be him who would have to be rescued by the referee. Louis by tko in 7 or 8.

[mr. magoo]

:lol:

Quoting Big George Foreman is probably the worst thing you could do if you wanted to show facts.

Agreed,

But in this case, I think his assessment of Quarry was correct. He may have been small for his era. He may have been white. He may have had the tendency to cut and bleed. But, make no mistake about it, he was a guy who stepped up and beat a good crop of young, large, quality men in their primes, and did so convincingly. He beat boxers, punchers, big men, small men, prospects, veterans.....The works.....

Although I would have picked George to absolutely flatten Quarry, his hesitance in fighting him was well warranted.

[red cobra]

Similar to the first Frazier fight: Quarry gets in some good shots in the opening round, but takes several, harder ones, in return and is lambasted for the remaining 3-4 rounds of the match.
Only with a more devastating result from Louis' fist than from Fraziers'. Jerry would'nt be in there, round after round eating Louis' shots like he did with Joe Frazier. Louis rationed his punches while Frazier gave his away freely, being more of a volume puncher. Yes I agree that Jerry would perhaps have some success, some fireworks early in the fight, maybe rocking Louis in the 1st or maybe even staggering him, like he did Earnie Shavers, but I think Louis would kick it in high gear after that and land the precise, devastating single shots the like Jerry never had to face, even with the guys who dominated and stopped him in his career. Perhaps a little early luck in the opening round with the Brown Bomber would have filled him with bravado and in trying to apply the finisher he would get clocked, and hurt real bad, and then it simply would be over for Jerry, I think it would have ended in the 2nd or 3rd round after 2 severe knockdowns with the ref stopping it.

[Bummy Davis]

Quarry had a knack with those Big Slow Hard punching guys but the workrate of Frazier got to him a bit past midpoint and Frazier was not fast but he far from a slow and threw a lot of swarming leather...Louis would be some of the same PLUS...remember Joe had 2 fisted power and IMO one of the faster power punching combinations ever...Louis's quantity and quality was number one...Power, speed, and the amount of punches landed better than Ali and more pinpoint and enegy efficient than Marciano. I would give Quarry a chance to upset Foreman and had a chance with Liston but the jab of Liston was a damaging one but those guys fit the mold to the fighter solid Jawed Jerry could upset.....Joe Louis is all wrong for Jerry

[TheGreatA]

I do think that if the Quarry from the Spencer fight shows up, a less-than-perfect Joe Louis would be in for a tough night.

I'm not going to say that Spencer was nearly as good as Louis because he wasn't but he did resemble Louis a bit and was dismantled by Quarry:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

As much as I liked Quarry, and enjoyed his fights, I think Joe could beat him 10 out of 10 times.

...maybe 11.

[itrymariti]

Quarry lost to a lot of good guys, but that's about it. Joe would blow him away.

[janitor]

I do think that if the Quarry from the Spencer fight shows up, a less-than-perfect Joe Louis would be in for a tough night.

I'm not going to say that Spencer was nearly as good as Louis because he wasn't but he did resemble Louis a bit and was dismantled by Quarry:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

It should be noted that Louis broke his hand in the Farr fight and had it in a cast for some weeks after. It could be argued that he did well to maintain control of the fight enough to take the decision.

Also although Louis does not look like the killer of legend during this fight he did actualy bust Farr up prety badly. Moreso than you would have thought watching the film.

Incidentaly Farr unlike Quarry is a fighter who might actualy have been a fairly short shot to win the title in the mid 30s. None of the champions of that period managed a particularly emphatic win over him.

[slicksouthpaw16]

prime for prime.

Would Jerry have much of a chance in this one?

What happens?
This fight is a mismatch. Louis was better in every single category. I do think that Quarry would give him a tough fight because he was extremely tough, he would just be outmatched here. The style of Louis is all wrong for Quarry because both inside and outside, hes at a disadvantage.

[Jeff Young]

i love quarry, both guys are warriors...but louis take it, he bust quarry's face open, and quarry was known as a bad bleeder....

quarry i think could take the klits though.

[OLD FOGEY]

I agree that Quarry was all but made for Louis. He just doesn't have an eccentric style which might have confused Louis for a while. I see this one as a brutal and fairly early knockout, depending on how long Jerry can take it.