In 1994 Ken Buchanan went to New York to look for Roberto Duran

[McGrain]

"I had watched him continue his career as mine slipped away. Whatever he achieved I still felt he didn't deserve to be world champion, rolling in dough and glory. I keep seeing the big picture in my head of June 1972 and Duran is jumping about the ring with my title. I go white-hot with anger...nothing can cool me down.

All I ever wanted was a return fight but Duran stayed well ouut of my road. Every time I was in position to ask for a title fight there was some excuse...so here I am working as a joiner more than 20 years later and I can't take it. Any time I have tried to talk to another person about this, they just tell me, "Ken, it's just one of those things".

But it's not just one of those things. For the rest of the world it might be just one of those things, but for me it is the thing. And by now I am old enough and ugly enough to know that it has to be dealt with. If I had a pound for every time somebody asked me if I would have beat Duran [in a rematch] i'd be a millionare. And every time I got asked that question my heart broke just a little bit further.

I flew from Edinburgh to London...I got a flight to Kennedy Airport...to be honest it felt like it was just the day before I was fighting Duran. When we landed in America my heart was pounding. I was looking out the taxi thinking, what was I doing? One man in a city of ten million trying to find another single human being amongst the those ten million.

We arrived in Harlem where the bed and breakfast was. I got out of the cab and caught a few people loooking at me. But that didn't bother me. Nothing much frightens me at all now...the door opens and this woman pokes her head otu. She's about five feet nothing in her socks.

"Yes?"

"I phoned from the terminal. You said you had me a room for a couple of weeks."

"But man - you is white!"

"Jesus - you're the second person today to tell me that!"

"You're white!"

"Yes brilliant, Christ, I know that."

I smile, she smiles, and she lets me in. She takes me to Mrs. Wells restraunt up the street. Up the stairs we go and people are looking. She opens the door and we go in. The place falls silent. Not a fork or a knife scraping a plate. Mouths are hanging open. There is a white man in the doorway...but I didn't give a shit - to be honest there are times in your life when nothing matters, and I think people pick up on that.

After about ten days looking for Duran in all the gyms and bars, I decided I was never going to find him...So after two weeks in Harlem I went back to Scotland..."

Ken Buchanan, from his autobiography.

[CottoDaBodykill]

that's fucking incredible thanks man! ... was he gonna pick a fight with duran?

[McGrain]

I reckon that's exactly what he was doing!

[CottoDaBodykill]

crazy ass scottsmen!

[teeto]

Wow, well i need to read that one then

[robert ungurean]

Its a good book.
So is the first one he wrote.Alot of people think because Ken had such a technical style that he wasnt a badass but believe me he was a badass .

[fists of fury]

Thanks MCGrain, very interesting stuff.
I didn't know the loss (or rather, the way it happened) burned him so much.

[BUDW]

He would got a ass kicking if he found him

[Stonehands89]

Yep. I think Kenny was a white-haired old man in '94. Duran was still beating hell out of guys half his age in Mississippi casino's on ESPN... I think he would've whipped Buchanan and Sean O'Grady simultaneously if it got down to it.

[dpw417]

That looks like an interesting read. Thanks for posting...Have you read the book, Mc?

[JIm Broughton]

I can't say I blame Ken for the way he feels. I always thought that Duran hit him low on purpose because he was frustrated that the Scotsman was hanging tough and not folding like alot of people thought he would. I also think that's it's no shock that Duran wouldn't fight him again. I think Duran wanted no part of Ken anymore after thier first fight. Not that he was afraid of Ken but Ken might make him look a little less than indestructible even if Roberto won..Not good for the image you know.

[Russell]

The hell is a joiner?

[Stonehands89]

Ken Buchanan is a character and an all-time great in my opinion. Roberto Duran, however, was certainly not afraid of him. His management had a different trajectory for the 21 year old Duran's career, and Ken didn't fit it.

Ken was not in much danger of winning that fight irregardless of the shot to the jewels. The two judges at ringside had the bout 9-2-1 and 9-3-1. Ref LoBianco had it 8-3-1 -all for Duran.

And we all know that Buchanan wasn't gonna stop Duran late.

[Shake]

I think an easily overlooked factor here is that Buchanan's life wasn't going very well -- when life sucks, it is natural to not blame yourself and look for excuses -- a happening, a person -- to shift the blame on.

[cuchulain]

The hell is a joiner?

A Carpenter (more or less).

[Russell]

Ah, okay. Thanks

[McGrain]

His management had a different trajectory for the 21 year old Duran's career, and Ken didn't fit it.

Also, Ken's persuit of a rematch was not proffessional. He split with his manager of money/trust issues and decided to manage himself from then on. His management style as regards persuing a rematch was passive. He spent a lot of time "waiting for a call". He didn't use media sources to persue Duran and he didn't attend Duran's fights to call him out and he didn't, as far as I can tell, make a great deal of effort in terms of forcing Roberto's people to make a move.


Ken was not in much danger of winning that fight irregardless of the shot to the jewels. The two judges at ringside had the bout 9-2-1 and 9-3-1. Ref LoBianco had it 8-3-1 -all for Duran.

And we all know that Buchanan wasn't gonna stop Duran late.

Buchanana actually disagrees with you for what it is worth. He claims he felt Duran weakining through the 11th and that Duran's punch, after the bell and below the belt, was the desperate move of a desperate man.

I'm not conivnced by that for a minute - but I do think the fact that Ken was defending champion and the fight ended in very controversial circumstances means that, regardless of Buchanan's management position and regardless of the scores on the cards, the lack of rematch does not reflect well on Roberto Duran.

[Vantage_West]

Ken Buchanan is a character and an all-time great in my opinion. Roberto Duran, however, was certainly not afraid of him. His management had a different trajectory for the 21 year old Duran's career, and Ken didn't fit it.

Ken was not in much danger of winning that fight irregardless of the shot to the jewels. The two judges at ringside had the bout 9-2-1 and 9-3-1. Ref LoBianco had it 8-3-1 -all for Duran.

And we all know that Buchanan wasn't gonna stop Duran late.as much as i agree that doesnt imply that nothign coudl change

[TheGreatA]

To be fair to Duran it was Buchanan who kept swinging after the bell. I also don't think the fight was going in Buchanan's direction in the 13th round, he took quite a battering actually.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Buchanan did deserve an instant rematch however but we know that this is not always the case in boxing. Duran was still a developing fighter at the time and his managers would rather have him fight softer opposition for a while. Buchanan could have probably forced the fight to be made later on had he beaten Ishimatsu for the WBC version of the title but that was not to be.

[JohnThomas1]

From memory Duran had swung after the bell on numerous occasions and this was the first time Ken tried it himself, had enough of it i think. Hope i am right lol

[TheGreatA]

From memory Duran had swung after the bell on numerous occasions and this was the first time Ken tried it himself, had enough of it i think. Hope i am right lol

I can't say I remember Duran throwing punches after the bell in any round of that fight.

Duran did taunt him but Buchanan has only himself to blame if he was angered by any of that.

[GPater11093]

The hell is a joiner?

make alot of woodwork frames for houses as well as carpentry jobs like said before but it is mostly the wood for houses

[My dinner with Conteh]

That's a sad story. Poor Ken. :-(


For the record, he was offered a rematch, contrary to what is often written, but in Panama.

[Duodenum]

Buchanan.....claims he felt Duran weakening through the 11th and that Duran's punch, after the bell and below the belt, was the desperate move of a desperate man.

I'm not convinced by that for a minuteNeither am I, but even if Buchanan was right, Duran's later history suggests that he would not have wilted dramatically enough to be stopped, as even Hagler failed to do this.- but I do think the fact that Ken was defending champion and the fight ended in very controversial circumstances means that, regardless of Buchanan's management position and regardless of the scores on the cards, the lack of rematch does not reflect well on Roberto Duran.Duran probably agrees with this. Very late in his career, Roberto quickly dispatched a hapless victim on live television, leaving the broadcast with a leisurely surplus of air time, much of which was spent at ringside reminiscing with Duran about his career. Interestingly, he credited Buchanan as being his best opponent (at this advanced stage, his rematch with Camacho was the only significant bout in his future).

[teeto]

That's a sad story. Poor Ken. :-(


For the record, he was offered a rematch, contrary to what is often written, but in Panama.
Really i never knew about that, i'm intrigued though, if you could tell more then i'd appreciate that

[Stonehands89]

Also, Ken's persuit of a rematch was not proffessional. He split with his manager of money/trust issues and decided to manage himself from then on. His management style as regards persuing a rematch was passive. He spent a lot of time "waiting for a call". He didn't use media sources to persue Duran and he didn't attend Duran's fights to call him out and he didn't, as far as I can tell, make a great deal of effort in terms of forcing Roberto's people to make a move.




Buchanana actually disagrees with you for what it is worth. He claims he felt Duran weakining through the 11th and that Duran's punch, after the bell and below the belt, was the desperate move of a desperate man.

I'm not conivnced by that for a minute - but I do think the fact that Ken was defending champion and the fight ended in very controversial circumstances means that, regardless of Buchanan's management position and regardless of the scores on the cards, the lack of rematch does not reflect well on Roberto Duran.
I wouldn't say it reflects "well", however, nor would I hold it too much against him given his career long courage in facing giants and monsters.

I'd hate to hear some goof quoting you the next time he's getting his head handed to him about Roy or Floyd's pattern of avoiding real challenges during their primes ---I can hear them now: "Hey now! Roberto shoulda gave Kenny a rematch!" and they'll feel justified quoting the mighty McGrain.

[McGrain]

For the record, he was offered a rematch, contrary to what is often written, but in Panama.

Like Teeto I'd be happy to hear some detail, if you have it.

I'd hate to hear some goof quoting you the next time he's getting his head handed to him about Roy or Floyd's pattern of avoiding real challenges during their primes ---I can hear them now: "Hey now! Roberto shoulda gave Kenny a rematch!" and they'll feel justified quoting the mighty McGrain.

:lol:

This is exactly the way to get me to retract - but I can't.

What I would say is that Buchanan didn't put the type of pressure on the champion for anyone to be able to say "he was ducked".

Be interesting to see if Conteh has any more details.

[he grant]

I always thought Ken's title losing loss to Duran was strange and glossed over by Duran fans as some huge victory when it was a highly competitive fight that ended on a bad foul ... very interesting story although you have to be a bit nuts to go after Duran in the street without a weapon and the element of surprise ... if he was so serious why didn't he go to Panama or Miami for Duran ?

[HomicideHenry]

Its settled, Duran and Buchanan must have a rematch on the White Collar circuit!

[Mantequilla]

What does he have to say about the Suzuki fight Mcgrain?.Apparently a lot of shady things went on in the run up to the fight to disrupt him.

I think he would have beaten Guts had he not been hampered by the eye injury.

[Russell]

What does he have to say about the Suzuki fight Mcgrain?.Apparently a lot of shady things went on in the run up to the fight to disrupt him.

I think he would have beaten Guts had he not been hampered by the eye injury.

What kind of shady things?

[McGrain]

I agree with you Mantequilla. I don't have the book to hand, but he goes into it in detail and I took some notes. Will dig both out tomorrow and post some details.

Ken had some tough luck on the road alright.

[GazOC]

Buchanan didn't always have the best of luck but he was also one of those people who was very quick to blame other people for his (percieved) misfortunes.

[Mantequilla]

What kind of shady things?

Various deliberate disruptions where he was staying.Sparring partners deliberately trying to injure him etc...

[McGrain]

Buchanan didn't always have the best of luck but he was also one of those people who was very quick to blame other people for his (percieved) misfortunes.


The fuck?

[Arka]

Nah....In 1994 Ken Buchanan went to New York to look for Ken Buchanan. :lol:

[GazOC]

The fuck?

Pardon?

[McGrain]

Buchanan didn't always have the best of luck but he was also one of those people who was very quick to blame other people for his (percieved) misfortunes.


What do you mean?

[GazOC]

What do you mean?

Just that in most (pretty much all) interviews I've read with KB he seems a quite a bitter person, I'm sure a lot of it is due to how other people treated him but I've never seen him take responsibility for any of the things that went wrong in his life.

He's let a lot of money run through his fingers, and has been an alcoholic since his first retirement which has cost him 2 marriges so I don't think it takes a mastermind to realize where a good percentage of his cash as gone (even allowing for poor management) and yet all though the years I've never once seen him take one ounce of responsbility for what happened to him.

[McGrain]

He's let a lot of money run through his fingers, and has been an alcoholic since his first retirement which has cost him 2 marriges so I don't think it takes a mastermind to realize where a good percentage of his cash as gone (even allowing for poor management) and yet all though the years I've never once seen him take one ounce of responsbility for what happened to him.


It's a bit of a chicken egg, but he seems to have lost most of his money in his two divorces, the first one stung him bad.

[JohnThomas1]

Nah....In 1994 Ken Buchanan went to New York to look for Ken Buchanan. :lol:



Yeah, he wanted to find his "inner" gangsta.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Really i never knew about that, i'm intrigued though, if you could tell more then i'd appreciate that

I'll root it out at the weekend. :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

Be interesting to see if Conteh has any more details.


I always have the details. :cool:

Off the top of my head, he was offered a fight in Panama for, what he considered, a derisory purse, and turned it down. It's just the month/year i'm puzzled with at the moment. I'd guess at early 74.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yeah, he wanted to find his "inner" gangsta.


:lol:

[My dinner with Conteh]

I agree with you Mantequilla. I don't have the book to hand, but he goes into it in detail and I took some notes. Will dig both out tomorrow and post some details.


What, a fighter, saying he was robbed? Never. :yep

[teeto]

Alright nice one MDWC

[McGrain]

What does he have to say about the Suzuki fight Mcgrain?.Apparently a lot of shady things went on in the run up to the fight to disrupt him.


Four days before the fight I have been getting good write-ups from the Japaneese press. They have come along and watched me sparring with the partners supplied by the promoters. They are so impressed they are actually writing Guts Ishimatsu off...he had been well beaten by Laguna a man I had beaten twice...that hardly counts for anything on the night of the fight...

Just to point out that Ken is talking about using the sparring partners that Ishimatsu's promoters have laid on for him. If Ken had a manager we would be screaming bloody murder at his negligence. By this point, Ken was managing himself, basically to save on the manager's cut. Here is where a manager would have earned his keep.

..the last night of sparring me, my dad and my second were taken to a different gym. I should have clocked on that there was something going on, especially with teh fast moves that had been pulled on me already in teh boxing game over the years. But as I have said, I was always an easy target when I was concentrating on the fight and my fitness.

Here Ken actually admits his shortcomings as manager...and his only client is himself. Seems a great shame. I wonder if with proper management he would have suffered the way he did here, and if he could have made the Duran rematch.

I noticed something different. I peered at the guy across the other end of the ring. My sparring partner had put on a good few pounds and a pair of platform shoes - he had suddenly grown six inches. I asked what had happened to my other sparring partner at work. They said he had hurt himself at work

My new sparring partner wasn't exactly trying to knock me out, but there was something up. There's a certain look in their eyes and movement in their bodies when you know they are doing more than sparring. In the third round this guy threw a left - as I was slipping it over my shoulder he rooled his thumb into me eye socket. Ya Bastard! It was really sore. There was nothing I could do. Before you could say "Muhammad Ali" my left eye was giving me pain. I went right for him. I punched him foru or five times and he dropped to his knees...I jumped out of the ring. My eye was swollen so badly my dad took me to the hospital there and then.

At the hospital we discovered air had blown my eye up. The doctor put some padding on the lump and bandaged my face tightly so that the pressure on the lump would push the air out from under my eye. Now I couldn't do any kind of light training at all...I had to hide it from the press [to protect the gate].

My dad asked for the fight to be put back a week - no chance.





Sorry to bang on but I do feel that a good manager would



1 - Have veted sparring partners or arranged for his own.

2 - Refused to allow his man to spar with this massive unkown a few days before the fight at a closed gym

3 - Allowed the spar to continue in to three rounds if the fighter/others thought there was something odd in the sparring partners conduct.

4 - Pulled Ken immediatly upon recieveing the injury rather than allowing him to attack the other man!

5 - Demanded a postponement.

6 - Taken details to the press if that postponement was denied.

[GPater11093]

That's a sad story. Poor Ken. :-(


For the record, he was offered a rematch, contrary to what is often written, but in Panama.

yes i have heard this too he touches upon it in his book

ill explain later on in this post what i remember from articles and kens book

Like Teeto I'd be happy to hear some detail, if you have it.



:lol:

This is exactly the way to get me to retract - but I can't.

What I would say is that Buchanan didn't put the type of pressure on the champion for anyone to be able to say "he was ducked".

Be interesting to see if Conteh has any more details.

he did want to fight him, im sure he got MSG to stop hosting Duran fights for awhile because of the no remtach

heres the story on the rematch i think

Ken was offered a rematch in Panama but there was something in the terms that was unacceptable to Ken either it came to quick after his last fight, not enough money, something along that lines i think.

although it could have been that the rematch had a clause that meant it had to have been in MSG.

Buchanan didn't always have the best of luck but he was also one of those people who was very quick to blame other people for his (percieved) misfortunes.

correct he did blame alot of other people and he was hell of unlucky.



Just that in most (pretty much all) interviews I've read with KB he seems a quite a bitter person, I'm sure a lot of it is due to how other people treated him but I've never seen him take responsibility for any of the things that went wrong in his life.

He's let a lot of money run through his fingers, and has been an alcoholic since his first retirement which has cost him 2 marriges so I don't think it takes a mastermind to realize where a good percentage of his cash as gone (even allowing for poor management) and yet all though the years I've never once seen him take one ounce of responsbility for what happened to him.

he is a bitter person and blames other people but he has also had bad luck and been screwed over by wifes and had a business go bust because of one

It's a bit of a chicken egg, but he seems to have lost most of his money in his two divorces, the first one stung him bad.

:good

yep his business went bust after the first divorce he lost ALOT of money and had to live with freinds i think

Yeah, he wanted to find his "inner" gangsta.

:rofl:rofl

I always have the details. :cool:

Off the top of my head, he was offered a fight in Panama for, what he considered, a derisory purse, and turned it down. It's just the month/year i'm puzzled with at the moment. I'd guess at early 74.

hope you can clear up my memory

What, a fighter, saying he was robbed? Never. :yep

Four days before the fight I have been getting good write-ups from the Japaneese press. They have come along and watched me sparring with the partners supplied by the promoters. They are so impressed they are actually writing Guts Ishimatsu off...he had been well beaten by Laguna a man I had beaten twice...that hardly counts for anything on the night of the fight...

Just to point out that Ken is talking about using the sparring partners that Ishimatsu's promoters have laid on for him. If Ken had a manager we would be screaming bloody murder at his negligence. By this point, Ken was managing himself, basically to save on the manager's cut. Here is where a manager would have earned his keep.

..the last night of sparring me, my dad and my second were taken to a different gym. I should have clocked on that there was something going on, especially with teh fast moves that had been pulled on me already in teh boxing game over the years. But as I have said, I was always an easy target when I was concentrating on the fight and my fitness.

Here Ken actually admits his shortcomings as manager...and his only client is himself. Seems a great shame. I wonder if with proper management he would have suffered the way he did here, and if he could have made the Duran rematch.

I noticed something different. I peered at the guy across the other end of the ring. My sparring partner had put on a good few pounds and a pair of platform shoes - he had suddenly grown six inches. I asked what had happened to my other sparring partner at work. They said he had hurt himself at work

My new sparring partner wasn't exactly trying to knock me out, but there was something up. There's a certain look in their eyes and movement in their bodies when you know they are doing more than sparring. In the third round this guy threw a left - as I was slipping it over my shoulder he rooled his thumb into me eye socket. Ya Bastard! It was really sore. There was nothing I could do. Before you could say "Muhammad Ali" my left eye was giving me pain. I went right for him. I punched him foru or five times and he dropped to his knees...I jumped out of the ring. My eye was swollen so badly my dad took me to the hospital there and then.

At the hospital we discovered air had blown my eye up. The doctor put some padding on the lump and bandaged my face tightly so that the pressure on the lump would push the air out from under my eye. Now I couldn't do any kind of light training at all...I had to hide it from the press [to protect the gate].

My dad asked for the fight to be put back a week - no chance.





Sorry to bang on but I do feel that a good manager would



1 - Have veted sparring partners or arranged for his own.

2 - Refused to allow his man to spar with this massive unkown a few days before the fight at a closed gym

3 - Allowed the spar to continue in to three rounds if the fighter/others thought there was something odd in the sparring partners conduct.

4 - Pulled Ken immediatly upon recieveing the injury rather than allowing him to attack the other man!

5 - Demanded a postponement.

6 - Taken details to the press if that postponement was denied.

he was abit stubborn wasnt he in terms of management.

Why did he leave Thomas again was that to save the managers cut.

also what about Gil Clancy was he not working with Buchanan around this time

its been a while since i read the book

[My dinner with Conteh]

The sparring story is purely his own fault. If he was gonna allow Guts'management to arrange this mystery sparring partner then it's up for him to say "fuck off cunt", especially when the sparring partner turned out to be Shiro Kishibe, who would later gain fame playing 'Sandy' in the TV show Monkey.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[red cobra]

I reckon that's exactly what he was doing!
Buchanan was a tough sob, and not just the master boxer. He gave Duran his toughest battle, and TOOK IT better than anyone else that Duran defended against at lightweight and SHOULD have gotten the rematch he always desired. I'm not saying he would have beaten Duran, but I feel confident he would have gone 15 with him.

[JohnThomas1]

The sparring story is purely his own fault. If he was gonna allow Guts'management to arrange this mystery sparring partner then it's up for him to say "fuck off cunt", especially when the sparring partner turned out to be Shiro Kishibe, who would later gain fame playing 'Sandy' in the TV show Monkey.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl