Pipino Cuevas v Miguel Cotto

[TIGEREDGE]

i fancy cotto to outbox and out work him en route to a points win

[Sweet Pea]

Not a snowball's chance in hell.

[Xplosive]

I fancy Cuevas to knock Cotto's head into the 3rd row.

[stevebhoy87]

Cuevas would knock cotto out, brutally

[BUDW]

Cuevas wins by KO

[PowerPuncher]

Cotto outboxes him, Cuevas is too prehistoric skill wise, even Cotto can avoid those Hayemakers.

[Sweet Pea]

Cotto outboxes him, Cuevas is too prehistoric skill wise, even Cotto can avoid those Hayemakers.

Not a chance. If a smooth, skilled stylist like Angel Espada couldn't survive in 3 attempts, no way a wannabe slickster like Cotto does. His lack of refined punching form doesn't take away from his effectiveness, especially when you consider how off-putting even his glancing blows were, or the fact that he had underrated footwork and ability to put himself in position to land his blows. Cotto would get backed up into the ropes like he was with Margarito, only this time he'd be facing someone with genuinely frightening power and finishing ability, rather than a glove loader with slow hands who earns his tainted stoppages through accumulation.

[Jack]

Cuevas is nowhere near as talented. Whilst Cotto doesn't have a great chin, he has a defence which is unlikely to get tagged all night. Judah and possibly Quintana are on the same level or better than Cuevas, but without he big punch.

He has a punchers chance, yeah, but he isn't going to win more than his share.

[Sweet Pea]

Cuevas is nowhere near as talented. Whilst Cotto doesn't have a great chin, he has a defence which is unlikely to get tagged all night. Judah and possibly Quintana are on the same level or better than Cuevas, but without he big punch.

He has a punchers chance, yeah, but he isn't going to win more than his share.
:lol:

[sweet_scientist]

Cotto outboxes him, Cuevas is too prehistoric skill wise, even Cotto can avoid those Hayemakers.

If Cuevas is prehistoric, Margarito's technique evolved pre big bang.

[rodney]

Cotto. would win.
Cuevas was light on skill.
He hit hard, but, mostly one punch at a time.
Also, he was always right in front of you --- a target.
Unless you were scared shitless, like most of his opponents.

[PowerPuncher]

Not a chance. If a smooth, skilled stylist like Angel Espada couldn't survive in 3 attempts, no way a wannabe slickster like Cotto does. His lack of refined punching form doesn't take away from his effectiveness, especially when you consider how off-putting even his glancing blows were, or the fact that he had underrated footwork and ability to put himself in position to land his blows. Cotto would get backed up into the ropes like he was with Margarito, only this time he'd be facing someone with genuinely frightening power and finishing ability, rather than a glove loader with slow hands who earns his tainted stoppages through accumulation.

Cotto will be bringing much more power, strength and pressure to table though. In a way its similar to Duran-Cuevas, with Cotto obviously not as good, but similar in style. Cotto is a dangerous fighter in his own right and his jab and straighter sharper punches are going to land before Cuevas shots are able to. He can counter Cuevas's shots and land on his open defense. Plus he can control the fight with his jab

Don't get me wrong Cuevas obviously has a punchers chance, just as Judah/Mosley/Torres all did and while shaking him up ultimately failed to win (although I had Mosley beating Cotto from recollection). Incidently Mosley would definately beat Cuevas

Also whats to say Cotto can't break Cuevas chin/ribs/liver?

[PowerPuncher]

If Cuevas is prehistoric, Margarito's technique evolved pre big bang.

Cuevas is a better bigger puncher, but Margarito uses the jab better and is a better in fighter and ofcourse brings much much more pressure.

[cotto20]

i think cuevas would be to strong for cotto

[robert ungurean]

Cotto looks like a million bucks the first few rounds but once Cuevas starts getting him against the ropes its lights out for Cotto.

[WhataRock]

Cotto will be bringing much more power, strength and pressure to table though. In a way its similar to Duran-Cuevas, with Cotto obviously not as good, but similar in style. Cotto is a dangerous fighter in his own right and his jab and straighter sharper punches are going to land before Cuevas shots are able to. He can counter Cuevas's shots and land on his open defense. Plus he can control the fight with his jab

Don't get me wrong Cuevas obviously has a punchers chance, just as Judah/Mosley/Torres all did and while shaking him up ultimately failed to win (although I had Mosley beating Cotto from recollection). Incidently Mosley would definately beat Cuevas

Also whats to say Cotto can't break Cuevas chin/ribs/liver?


Sweet Jesus...couldnt disagree more PP.

That was a well battle worn Cueves against a resurgent legend.

No way Miguel gets away with standing toe to toe with Pipino and manhandling him...Duran had the chin and defensive instincts to do it.
Im a big fan of Cotto..I make no secret of this...I just cant for the life of me see how he holds off a prime Cueves over the long haul.

Miguel has his limitations...thats why I like watching him in a way..The most glaringly of which are his durability and stamina issues, which is exactly what he needs in this fight more then any. He just gets tired and rocked in to many fights for me to say he could withstand the kind of artillery Cueves would be firing at him, round after round.

Pipino was most definitely quite crude...but I dont think that did anything to hinder his effectiveness..on the contrary it was his unorthodox approach that could often negate the skills of more accomplished technicians. Getting knockout power from shots that seem to break the laws of biomechanics is which what made this guy so scary.

Pipino 8-10 TKO...Miguel would be best served getting counted out on one knee rather then ending the night on a stretcher.

[Sweet Pea]

Cotto will be bringing much more power, strength and pressure to table though.You're naming qualities that would serve a fighter in an in-fight and/or punch-out. You really think those qualities are going to serve Cotto in a fight with one of the most brutal punchers in the division's history? Remember, this is Miguel Cotto we're talking about. I realize your arguments are rarely legit and the majority of the time you're just trying to see what you can get away with through manipulation of words, but be reasonable for once.

In a way its similar to Duran-Cuevas, with Cotto obviously not as good, but similar in style. Cotto is a dangerous fighter in his own right and his jab and straighter sharper punches are going to land before Cuevas shots are able to. He can counter Cuevas's shots and land on his open defense. Plus he can control the fight with his jabSee above. You can't genuinely believe this unless you're either slow in the head, laughably biased, or outright haven't seen/analyzed much of the fighters in question.


Don't get me wrong Cuevas obviously has a punchers chance, just as Judah/Mosley/Torres all did and while shaking him up ultimately failed to win (although I had Mosley beating Cotto from recollection). Incidently Mosley would definately beat Cuevas
Mosley's speed and power make a win more plausible than a Cotto win, but his power-boxing style doesn't inspire much confidence against that kind of puncher. Mosley had the ability to adapt his style while still maintaining his efficiency in his strength areas though, whereas Cotto is more or less just adequate in many different areas.

Also whats to say Cotto can't break Cuevas chin/ribs/liver?In order to do that he has to get within punching range, a lot. That isn't going to end well for someone who clearly is lacking in strength and durability against the mauling type of fighters. Face it, Miguel Cotto just isn't good enough in any area to stave off a murderous slugger like Cuevas.

[Jack]

Mosley's speed and power make a win more plausible than a Cotto win, but his power-boxing style doesn't inspire much confidence against that kind of puncher. Mosley had the ability to adapt his style while still maintaining his efficiency in his strength areas though, whereas Cotto is more or less just adequate in many different areas.You underestimate Mosley's chin. It's better than anyones Cuevas ever stopped. Only knocked down once, which was primarily caused by a headbutt, yet you think he's not going to be able to take Cuevas' shots?

[Sweet Pea]

You underestimate Mosley's chin. It's better than anyones Cuevas ever stopped. Only knocked down once, which was primarily caused by a headbutt, yet you think he's not going to be able to take Cuevas' shots?If he elects to stand and trade, abso-fucking-lutely not. You think Vernon Forrest hits harder than Cuevas?

[Xplosive]

Cuevas is nowhere near as talented. Whilst Cotto doesn't have a great chin, he has a defence which is unlikely to get tagged all night. Judah and possibly Quintana are on the same level or better than Cuevas, but without he big punch.

He has a punchers chance, yeah, but he isn't going to win more than his share.

Never post again.

[Jack]

If he elects to stand and trade, abso-fucking-lutely not. You think Vernon Forrest hits harder than Cuevas?No.

[BazookaJab]

Delete.

[PowerPuncher]

1. You're naming qualities that would serve a fighter in an in-fight and/or punch-out. You really think those qualities are going to serve Cotto in a fight with one of the most brutal punchers in the division's history? Remember, this is Miguel Cotto we're talking about. I realize your arguments are rarely legit and the majority of the time you're just trying to see what you can get away with through manipulation of words, but be reasonable for once.

2. See above. You can't genuinely believe this unless you're either slow in the head, laughably biased, or outright haven't seen/analyzed much of the fighters in question.

3. Mosley's speed and power make a win more plausible than a Cotto win, but his power-boxing style doesn't inspire much confidence against that kind of puncher. Mosley had the ability to adapt his style while still maintaining his efficiency in his strength areas though, whereas Cotto is more or less just adequate in many different areas.

4. In order to do that he has to get within punching range, a lot. That isn't going to end well for someone who clearly is lacking in strength and durability against the mauling type of fighters. Face it, Miguel Cotto just isn't good enough in any area to stave off a murderous slugger like Cuevas.

1. Have you actually boxed? If not let me break it down for you. 1 of the best ways to beat a puncher can be to hit him hard and fast before he can hit you. Then as he goes back, as people tend to when you hit them hard. A puncher can't hurt you as much when he's moving back (usually unless he's Julian Jackson perhaps)

Now Cotto is 1. Faster 2. A more compact puncher 3. Has a jab

2. I saw the fight, Duran's jab and timed power punches clean punches on a stationary unguarded target (ie Cuevas's chin). Now I'm not saying Cotto is as good as Duran, but he has some of the same tools.

3. That kind of puncher wouldn't land many punches because he punches too wide and slow. Mosley doesn't lose to Mexicans :D

4. See point 1, plus Cotto's punches land first so Cuevas shots arent necessarily getting off. This isn't a punching competition its called boxing

[laxpdx]

Miguel Cotto might be outboxing him....that is, until Pipino lays him out.

[Xplosive]

1. Have you actually boxed? If not let me break it down for you. 1 of the best ways to beat a puncher can be to hit him hard and fast before he can hit you. Then as he goes back, as people tend to when you hit them hard. A puncher can't hurt you as much when he's moving back (usually unless he's Julian Jackson perhaps)

Now Cotto is 1. Faster 2. A more compact puncher 3. Has a jab

2. I saw the fight, Duran's jab and timed power punches clean punches on a stationary unguarded target (ie Cuevas's chin). Now I'm not saying Cotto is as good as Duran, but he has some of the same tools.

3. That kind of puncher wouldn't land many punches because he punches too wide and slow. Mosley doesn't lose to Mexicans :D

4. See point 1, plus Cotto's punches land first so Cuevas shots arent necessarily getting off. This isn't a punching competition its called boxing

The BIGGEST differance between Duran & Cotto is that Duran had a great defense... Cotto does not.

[Raging B(_)LL]

Cuevas is really getting sold short here by some, I think he would absolutely wreck Cotto before flattening him for the count by the middle rounds. Sure, Pipino was crude in his approach and fairly predictable and one-dimentional in his attack, but that one dimension of his was enough to defend the welterweight title ten times against a pretty decent crop of contenders most of whom he annihilated in brutal fashion.

Cuevas would keep winging those viscious hooks upstairs and downstairs and eventually he will land something significant on Cotto and my guess he will do so early. Cotto`s leaky defense and habit of backing himself into the ropes will be his undoing, combine that with Pipino`s conviction that he will land the big bomb and keep walking forward punching away will put a lot of psychological pressure on Miguel which will wear him down and tire him out faster then if he were allowed to operate at his own pace.

Cuevas by KO within 5 rounds.

[la-califa]

1. Have you actually boxed? If not let me break it down for you. 1 of the best ways to beat a puncher can be to hit him hard and fast before he can hit you. Then as he goes back, as people tend to when you hit them hard. A puncher can't hurt you as much when he's moving back (usually unless he's Julian Jackson perhaps)

Now Cotto is 1. Faster 2. A more compact puncher 3. Has a jab

2. I saw the fight, Duran's jab and timed power punches clean punches on a stationary unguarded target (ie Cuevas's chin). Now I'm not saying Cotto is as good as Duran, but he has some of the same tools.

3. That kind of puncher wouldn't land many punches because he punches too wide and slow. Mosley doesn't lose to Mexicans :D

4. See point 1, plus Cotto's punches land first so Cuevas shots arent necessarily getting off. This isn't a punching competition its called boxingYou're actually basing Cuevas from the Duran fight. By then Cuevas was pretty much a shell of himself. it's like basing Joe Louis off of his performance against Rocky Marciano!:patsch
Watch footage of a reigning Champion Cuevas & witness the utter destructive power he had. If Cotto was backing up against Margarito, he would do more so against Pipino. With his back against the ropes or backed into a corner, Cotto would have to fight his way out. & a prime Cuevas threw better combinations than Margarito anyday, with way more devestating results.

[PbP Bacon]

Honestly, I can't imagine Cotto defeating a Prime Pipino, at least not the Cotto from the fight with Margacheato.

Sure Cotto fought quite well against Margacheato (who was almost surely cheating), but as other posters mentioned, his same tactics would have been extremely taxing in a fight against Pipino, whom was the real deal; born with plaster of paris in his fists :) We are talking about the guy who broke Weston and Espada's jaws!!.

Pipino carried a big gun. In his prime He could only be stopped by a physical phenomenon named Hearns, who carried a even bigger gun :)

[zadfrak]

The other thing with Cuevas was that left hook of his sizzled early in his career. It was real real quick and the devastating type that was a bone breaker. And he threw lots of them and tested opponents real early. I don't see the defense of Cotto dealing with that A+ left hook and brutal left uppercut Cuevas threw.

[Longhhorn71]

Look at Cotto's face after the Clottey fight and imagine Cuevas' uppercut landing.

Cotto takes a beating, makes 12, but 15 rds is too much.

[Shake]

Cotto outboxes him until he dies. He's just too hittable.

Cotto should have a lot of success with the jab and his movement, but when he stops to momentarily trade he'll be struck in the exchanges. Cuevas doesn't care much about what he targets -- sweeping punches at the center of the torso are bound to land eventually.

[El Puma]

You're naming qualities that would serve a fighter in an in-fight and/or punch-out. You really think those qualities are going to serve Cotto in a fight with one of the most brutal punchers in the division's history? Remember, this is Miguel Cotto we're talking about. I realize your arguments are rarely legit and the majority of the time you're just trying to see what you can get away with through manipulation of words, but be reasonable for once.

See above. You can't genuinely believe this unless you're either slow in the head, laughably biased, or outright haven't seen/analyzed much of the fighters in question.

Mosley's speed and power make a win more plausible than a Cotto win, but his power-boxing style doesn't inspire much confidence against that kind of puncher. Mosley had the ability to adapt his style while still maintaining his efficiency in his strength areas though, whereas Cotto is more or less just adequate in many different areas.

In order to do that he has to get within punching range, a lot. That isn't going to end well for someone who clearly is lacking in strength and durability against the mauling type of fighters. Face it, Miguel Cotto just isn't good enough in any area to stave off a murderous slugger like Cuevas.Jesus H. Christ. I just witnessed the equivalent of Charlie Zelenoff sparring with the 2000 version of Sugar Shane Mosley. What an ass kicking......

[Cobra33]

Harold Weston was ALOT slicker then Cotto and you saw what happened to Weston against Cuevas.
Pre-Hearns Cuevas was a wreaking machine who broke bones.Cotto would do well until he feels the power of Cuevas.And don't forget Cuevas can throw to the body.
Cuevas would beat the holy hell out of Cotto.Mosley not sure but Shane likes to trade too much and if Cuevas catches him hes done.

[Drew101]

Cotto can win.

His skill-set and defensive abilty is a bit underrated (he doesn't get hit that much when he's in boxer mode), he hits damned hard and Cuevas, while a harder puncher, doesn't apply the same type of high volume attack that Margarito implimented to eventually wear down his opponent. Cotto can do this if he gets his respect early and manages to minimize exchanges and use his jab to control distance. This isn't impossible.

But I don't think it would happen.

At some point, I think Cuevas is going to connect with enough big punches to damage Cotto in some way as to prevent him from throwing anything big back in return for fear of getting caught. At some point, Cotto is going to bust up, and allow Cuevas to come forward, find his range, and connect with something else that will eventually force a stoppage. It won't be easy, and Pipino will almost certainly have to come from behind on the cards, imo...But at this point, I think that's the way this fight goes down.

[Flea Man]

I think Cuevas would win on points after hurting Cotto around the 6th round Miguel is on survival mode. I say points because we've never seen Miguel genuinely decked and he seems to have great powers of recovery, and Juan Manuel marquez is often given praise for this so I will lend it to Cotto as well.

Over 12 rounds, Cuevas 116-111 (he drops Cotto in the 8th but it's at the end of the round :good)

[Flea Man]

What am I talking about, Cuevas smashes Cotto to bits when he hurts him in the 6th, there's no point lieing. Cotto takes a knee after left hook that forces him back against the ropes, and doesn't get back up. He seems like a smart fighter does Cotto, and one left from Cuevas would bring all the pain 11 rounds with Margacheateo gave him.

[Sweet Pea]

What am I talking about, Cuevas smashes Cotto to bits when he hurts him in the 6th, there's no point lieing.:lol::good

[Mr Butt]

cuevas wins via a brutul ko cotto does not get to round 5

[Flea Man]

Cuevas was not just heavy handed, he was heavy armed and heavy shouldered and heavy all over. When he hit you it was with his whole body, they looked like arm punches but when they connected they seemed to literally dent his opponents faces. Like they had been hit with a car.

remember the Margarito-Cuevas thread a few months back :rofl