Prime Dempsey/Tunney -- trilogy

[guilalah]

Prime Dempsey vs Prime Tunney in a trilogy:

first fight 20 round, second fight 10 round, third fight 15 round.

How does it pan out?

[spittle8]

I think Dempsey gets a knockout, fights a close fight and loses a decision.

[janitor]

Hmmmm.

I suspect that a prime Dempsey could potentialy have finished what he started in the battle of the long count.

I also suspect that he would be likley to do better against Tunney with repeated outings since there are only so many moves Tunney can pull and he will adapt.

One option that has not been suggested is a Tunney win by knockout and I think this is certainly on the cards especialy in the 20 round fight. If Dempsey dosnt get a win by knockout he will loose by the same mechanism. I think that Tunney was two rounds away from stopping Dempsey in both the fights that actualy took place.

Another wildcard possibility is Dempsey winning by decision. This is not as far fetched as it sounds since he managed to decision and largley outbox Tommy Gibbons. If his legs are in the fight and he can keep the pressure up it is possible.

Anyway I will say that Dempsey wins two fights by knockout and looses the other by knockout or decision depending on its length.

[GPater11093]

would the nuetral corner rule be in effect?

[janitor]

would the nuetral corner rule be in effect?

Oh god no.

[GPater11093]

Dempsey has a much improved chance then

[guilalah]

Thanks for the comments.

Janitor's comments about rematches -- getting used to a boxer's tricks -- minds my (if I may digress) about my feelngs concerning Louis-Conn I. because I do think that the result was a compoound of a) Conn looking to clock Louis, and fighting the 13th looking to draw Louis in, rather than circle Louis, and b) Louis getting wise to some of Conn's moves, particularly ducking, and punching to where he could reasonably expected Conn, rather than where Conn was at at the punches start. Again, I think the KO was a combination of Louis learning and Conn getting a bit too optomistic and stubborn; but I think Louis often deserves more aknowledgement.

[ChrisPontius]

One option that has not been suggested is a Tunney win by knockout and I think this is certainly on the cards especialy in the 20 round fight. If Dempsey dosnt get a win by knockout he will loose by the same mechanism.

I agree, however i think Tunney takes two and Dempsey one.

[Mendoza]

Prime Dempsey vs Prime Tunney in a trilogy:

first fight 20 round, second fight 10 round, third fight 15 round.

How does it pan out?


Hard to say. I think a split series of 1-1, with one SD or draw is the best call. Dempsey has some un-even performances in his career as champion well before he fought Jack Sharkey.

Tunney was not only the most skilled fighter Dempsey fought, he also had the best chin and was perhaps the best at formulating a game plan.

[SuzieQ49]

Tunneys chin to me is unproven at heavyweight. Whats punchers did he face at heavyweight that hit him squarely on the chin? what 200lb + fighters did he fight? In fact, Tunney never even fought the better lightheavyweight punchers of his era. Tunney may have had a great chin at lightheavyweight, but not heavyweight. Not enough evidence

[Dempsey1238]

Dempsey still hit Tunney in both fights, Tunney took that left hook pretty well in round 4 in fight 1 from Dempsey.

I think Tunney would have goting up long count or not. Dempsey even at that stage could still hit. And Dempsey did land some of his best stuff on Tunney in both fights, regardless of the myth of Dempsey not laying a glove on Tunney.

[ChrisPontius]

Tunneys chin to me is unproven at heavyweight. Whats punchers did he face at heavyweight that hit him squarely on the chin? what 200lb + fighters did he fight? In fact, Tunney never even fought the better lightheavyweight punchers of his era. Tunney may have had a great chin at lightheavyweight, but not heavyweight. Not enough evidence

Sure, but to turn it around, how proven is Dempsey vs skilled boxers? Tunney and Sharkey easily won most rounds. Dempsey was past his best at this point, but he never proved the opposite, either. Gibbons was a LHW and was hardly overwhelmed. Miske basically went even with Dempsey before he got terminally ill. Even if Tunney's chin is somewhat unproven, he still has one hell of a chance.

[dmt]

According to most accounts, Dempsey was better then Miske in their second fight and clearly won.

[ChrisPontius]

According to most accounts, Dempsey was better then Miske in their second fight and clearly won.

This is what an article posted on Boxrec says about it:


"Neither fighter gained a commanding lead and a poor draw was the general verdict. Miske outboxed Dempsey most of the fight with the exception of the seventh round, when Dempsey, sinking a hard left into Miske's stomach and putting a right to the jaw, evened up the battle. Up to that time Miske had claimed three rounds and Dempsey two and one was a draw. Miske was plainly worried in the seventh but he held his own the rest of the way. The fight was without a spectacular feature. Miske continually resorted to infighting and managed to get inside most of Dempsey's blows. Miske landed one hard blow in the fight, a right cross in the third round. Dempsey scored in the second, third and seventh rounds and his supporters seemingly were inclined to give him a shade for this work. On the other hand those who gave Miske a shade based their verdicts on the fact that he made Dempsey miss many blows." (Indianapolis Star) According to George Blair, the St. Paul Pioneer-Press reported Miske to be the winner.

[Mendoza]

This is what an article posted on Boxrec says about it:


"Neither fighter gained a commanding lead and a poor draw was the general verdict. Miske outboxed Dempsey most of the fight with the exception of the seventh round, when Dempsey, sinking a hard left into Miske's stomach and putting a right to the jaw, evened up the battle. Up to that time Miske had claimed three rounds and Dempsey two and one was a draw. Miske was plainly worried in the seventh but he held his own the rest of the way. The fight was without a spectacular feature. Miske continually resorted to infighting and managed to get inside most of Dempsey's blows. Miske landed one hard blow in the fight, a right cross in the third round. Dempsey scored in the second, third and seventh rounds and his supporters seemingly were inclined to give him a shade for this work. On the other hand those who gave Miske a shade based their verdicts on the fact that he made Dempsey miss many blows." (Indianapolis Star) According to George Blair, the St. Paul Pioneer-Press reported Miske to be the winner.

Its a shame Miske is not on flim. Miske could fight.

[Boilermaker]

Tunneys chin to me is unproven at heavyweight. Whats punchers did he face at heavyweight that hit him squarely on the chin? what 200lb + fighters did he fight? In fact, Tunney never even fought the better lightheavyweight punchers of his era. Tunney may have had a great chin at lightheavyweight, but not heavyweight. Not enough evidence

What 200lb+ fighter would Tunney be fighting when he stepped in against Dempsey? Tunneys chin did stand up to Dempsey twice before, so I think that if he loses, it is not his ability to take a punch that costs him.

I tend to think that Tunney wins a 3 UDs against Dempsey but it is obviously not a given, and Dempsey has that live punchers chance in each of the three matches.

[janitor]

This is what an article posted on Boxrec says about it:


"Neither fighter gained a commanding lead and a poor draw was the general verdict. Miske outboxed Dempsey most of the fight with the exception of the seventh round, when Dempsey, sinking a hard left into Miske's stomach and putting a right to the jaw, evened up the battle. Up to that time Miske had claimed three rounds and Dempsey two and one was a draw. Miske was plainly worried in the seventh but he held his own the rest of the way. The fight was without a spectacular feature. Miske continually resorted to infighting and managed to get inside most of Dempsey's blows. Miske landed one hard blow in the fight, a right cross in the third round. Dempsey scored in the second, third and seventh rounds and his supporters seemingly were inclined to give him a shade for this work. On the other hand those who gave Miske a shade based their verdicts on the fact that he made Dempsey miss many blows." (Indianapolis Star) According to George Blair, the St. Paul Pioneer-Press reported Miske to be the winner.

That was their first encounter not their second.

Here is the acount of their second encounter.

"Jack Dempsey won the popular decision from Billy Miske of St. Paul in a slow six-round bout here today at a Thanksgiving Day matinee. Only half a dozen hard blows were landed during the fight. There was scarcely any action in the first two rounds, but in the third Miske halted Dempsey with an uppercut to the jaw which gave him the advantage in this round. After this the bout was all in Dempsey's favor, the St. Paul man frequently holding in order to save himself from punishment." (Indianapolis Star)

Based on this I would say that the first fight could be argued either way while the second was a clear win for Dempsey.

The third fight was an unequivocal win for Dempsey though obviously due to Miskes personal circumstances.

Even so it should be noted that Miske arguably edged a verry dangerous version of Dempsey first time round and even in their third fight Dempsey had his hands full while it lasted.

You have to wonder what Miske might have gone on to achieve had he not become terminaly ill.

[ChrisPontius]

That was their first encounter not their second.

Here is the acount of their second encounter.

"Jack Dempsey won the popular decision from Billy Miske of St. Paul in a slow six-round bout here today at a Thanksgiving Day matinee. Only half a dozen hard blows were landed during the fight. There was scarcely any action in the first two rounds, but in the third Miske halted Dempsey with an uppercut to the jaw which gave him the advantage in this round. After this the bout was all in Dempsey's favor, the St. Paul man frequently holding in order to save himself from punishment." (Indianapolis Star)

Based on this I would say that the first fight could be argued either way while the second was a clear win for Dempsey.

The third fight was an unequivocal win for Dempsey though obviously due to Miskes personal circumstances.

Even so it should be noted that Miske arguably edged a verry dangerous version of Dempsey first time round and even in their third fight Dempsey had his hands full while it lasted.

You have to wonder what Miske might have gone on to achieve had he not become terminaly ill.

Well, i don't put that much credence to a 6-round fight.

The irony is that Dempsey fights discard the Meehan losses because they were only 4-rounders. So which is it?