Cotto vs Clottey the day after

[GPater11093]

of the boys who stayed up im in the first you up you lazy bastards?

what do you think of it now after being able to sleep on it

[McGrain]

I been up since nine, kid (-; You were just the first ON.

Great, great fight. Lots of pro Clottey noise out there.

[Chubble19]

I thought it was a good fight - the last third of the fight tailed off a bit, as Cotto outboxed the chasing Clottey....

To be honest it was a good fight, but not a "great" fight as it seemed watching it last night. It had controversial moments and as Bunce said I cant believe that Clottey took a "dive" like Ronaldo!!! As soon as that happened it was obvious to me that he was at it, for one he didnt even try and grab a leg/ankle that was injured....just silly from Clottey!

Good fight, good performance form Cotto, showing how to work with a bad cut (although its interesting that Cotto doesnt seem to bleed that bad!!), and hopefully we get to see Cotto V the winner of Mayweather/Marquez. Clottey would be a good opponent for Hatton, if he wants to go again!

[brown bomber]

Cotto pissed it for me.... 116-113, he wasn't massively impressive and I think Mayweather and Pacman both would well beat him. Still a great fighter though.

Corrales loss to Clottey doesn't look half bad now does it? Rip warrior.

[dan-b]

I think Cotto is a true warrior. We've seen a fair bit of bitching out with cuts recently but Miguel has set a new benchmark. Clottey, on the other hand, was trying to get Cotto DQd. I'm really glad the right man got the decision and I wonder if Mayweather will fight Cotto now. I doubt it.

[doug.ie]

clottey hurt his left hand in the 4th, nobody seemed to pick up on it...i was presuming it was bothering him in the 6th when he had his back to the ropes round.
thought the commentators were poor.

[trotter]

Same old same old from Clottey really, he doesn't have that extra gear

He only needed to force it harder the last few rounds, and he was the stronger guy so there' no reason he didn't do it

But that's what you get from him...

He is one of those 'very hard to beat' guys, who can't find a way to win himself in the big fights

I didn't score it closely at all, but no major qualms about the result from me

[trotter]

clottey hurt his left hand in the 4th, nobody seemed to pick up on it...i was presuming it was bothering him in the 6th when he had his back to the ropes round.
thought the commentators were poor.

Hurts his hands a lot doesn't he, and I think you can tell by the way he punches he's not got much faith in them.

Shame.

Didn't notice it myself though I must say.

[dan-b]

Did anyone think the cut affected Cotto though? I did, he was having to wipe his eye during rounds. Clottey was playing up the throwdown and also the rabbit punch and 'low blow' in the last round.

[GazOC]

I been up since nine, kid (-; You were just the first ON.

Great, great fight. Lots of pro Clottey noise out there.


I think a lot of it is either anti-Cotto noise or just plain trolling.

[GPater11093]

i was up at 10 but i woke up at 8 then went back to bed.

i thought it was a very intresting fight with great drama not a great action fight but it had twist and turns a thinking mans fight

McGrain you got to post more in the Brit forum last night it was good anaylising Chag-Wlad

[dan-b]

I think a lot of it is either anti-Cotto noise or just plain trolling.

Indeed. I thought Cotto was a true warrior last night, it would have been easy for him to get that fight stopped. He answered questions about what the Margarito fight took out of him. Cotto wasn't the one rolling around on the floor and trying to get his opponent DQd.

[GPater11093]

to be fair i thought Clottey was hurt when he was on the ground.

Cotto slammed him down hard, i thought that was bad of Cotto hasnt endeared himself towards me. But Clottey his his knee on the ground as he fell and it hurt for a while but then the pain subsided it happens if you fall the bit you fall on is sore for a while then gos away fairly quick.

[McGrain]

McGrain you got to post more in the Brit forum last night it was good anaylising Chag-Wlad


Yeah, I will.

[McGrain]

Indeed. I thought Cotto was a true warrior last night, it would have been easy for him to get that fight stopped. He answered questions about what the Margarito fight took out of him. Cotto wasn't the one rolling around on the floor and trying to get his opponent DQd.


I agree. I'm not sure, but I think we saw Calderon cry of witha less serious (in terms of vision) cut earlier that night...Cotto was determined to continue.

I didn't think they would hear the final bell - corner really did a good job, that was a brand new cutman, too, I believe

[McGrain]

I think a lot of it is either anti-Cotto noise or just plain trolling.


I think you could turn up a pretty reasonable card for Clottey to be fair, but yeah, there is the usual agenda bullshit.

[GPater11093]

Yeah, I will.

good to hear.

Im intrested what did you guys think of Calderon. He didnt look his best last night i thought he just edged it though but knew it was going to be a draw when they stopped the fight. Calderon looked scrappy and when he got the cut he got very wary. Maybe his opponent had a part to play as he looked stylistically all wrong for Ironboy

[GazOC]

I can't see how you can give Cotto any shit for last night. Must have been ahead after the 4th and probably could have taken the technical decision due to the cut like Calderon did but he fought on and got a close decision on my card. In the latter rounds rounds the Doctor was giving Cotto every chance to pull out ("Is it affecting you in any way?") but he fought on.

There was the grand total of 1 low blow, 1 rabbit punch (when Clottey had turned his head) and 1 throw all of which resulted in Clottey blatently playacting and looking for a point deduction from the ref and yet if you listen to some people over on the GF Cotto is a cheat and a dirty fighter.

[GPater11093]

I agree. I'm not sure, but I think we saw Calderon cry of witha less serious (in terms of vision) cut earlier that night...Cotto was determined to continue.

I didn't think they would hear the final bell - corner really did a good job, that was a brand new cutman, too, I believe

yeh Joe Chavez was new but he is a great cutsman and showed why he is regarded highly.

I thought Calderons was worse his was very very deep and ran into his eye when he first got the cut but once it was patched up abit it diodnt go in the eye as much. But it looked a bad cut anyway.

I did admire Cotto going on through that cut it was a bad one but it wasnt as bad as it looked though as the corner did a great job

[McGrain]

Im intrested what did you guys think of Calderon. He didnt look his best last night i thought he just edged it though but knew it was going to be a draw when they stopped the fight. Calderon looked scrappy and when he got the cut he got very wary. Maybe his opponent had a part to play as he looked stylistically all wrong for Ironboy


I felt from the opening bell he was in a bit of trouble. He was really out-ranged against an aggressive opponenet bringing pressure. He was not confortable. I was very keen to see if he still had 12 rounds in his legs at that type of pace.

But - I thought he was turning it around. He landed some beautiful body punches as Mayol was moving in, plus he was starting to find his range off the mobility - which is key. But like I say it would have been interesting to see.

I honestly believe he was keen to get out of there. I think he was relieved to be splitting.

[doug.ie]

Hurts his hands a lot doesn't he, and I think you can tell by the way he punches he's not got much faith in them.

Shame.

Didn't notice it myself though I must say.

watch the last 30-60 seconds of round 4 closely...also watch clottey as he walks back to his corner at the bell.

[GazOC]

I think you could turn up a pretty reasonable card for Clottey to be fair, but yeah, there is the usual agenda bullshit.

Thats true but I never scream "Robbery!!!" when I have a 1 or 2 point split on my card, and to me thats the type of fight we are talking here.

[McGrain]

I can't see how you can give Cotto any shit for last night. Must have been ahead after the 4th and probably could have taken the technical decision due to the cut like Calderon did but he fought on and got a close decision on my card. In the latter rounds rounds the Doctor was giving Cotto every chance to pull out ("Is it affecting you in any way?) but he fought on.

Very true. You saw Calderon's response when asked a similair question.

There was the grand total of 1 low blow, 1 rabbit punch (when Clottey had turned his head) and 1 throw all of which resulted in Clottey blatently playacting and looking for a point deduction from the ref and yet if you listen to some people over on the GF Cotto is a cheat and a dirty fighter.

The Cadleron fight was dirtier! Some of the hysteria in General about Cotto's - mad Paulfv started a thread entitled "i have lost all respect for Cotto" detailing the horrific "deliberate" punch to the back of the head, low blow and "bodyslam" - "dirty tactics" made for tough reading. As the man once said, you're not in there to dance.

[GPater11093]

You cant give Cotto any shit he won fair and square. Clottey deserves all the shit looking for a point off was a bit dickish. I did think the slam was bad from Cotto but it didnt affect the fight. and might have been accidental.

[Guy]

Clottey threw it away! if he’d sustained his attacks he would have knocked cotto out I’m sure of it he had the power and Cotto didn’t want it.
WTF was Clottey doing in the sixth?? I know Cotto tagged him but he went to sleep behind his guard the whole round.

I thought Clottey was acting disgracefully and trying to get a point off Cotto in the twelfth round and as for lying on the ground screaming .........I though he was trying for a DQ!

Clottey must be the most angry with himself this morning.

All that fight proved to me is that is not the same Cotto who traded with Mosley, who beat up Judah and dined on and punished the out of his depth Gomez.

He looks 'wary' of whats coming, cagey; and how slow was he compared to the lightning storm that came out against Margarito!!

The commentating was rubbish.

(I bet Pacquiao fancies the Cotto fight even more now........)

[doug.ie]

trotter..

go to 6.20 here...i think this is where clottey hurt his left...and watch as he goes back to the corner...he looks like he's telling his corner that he's hurt it.
to me it was an explaination for the 6th round.

maybe i'm wrong though


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[GPater11093]

I felt from the opening bell he was in a bit of trouble. He was really out-ranged against an aggressive opponenet bringing pressure. He was not confortable. I was very keen to see if he still had 12 rounds in his legs at that type of pace.

But - I thought he was turning it around. He landed some beautiful body punches as Mayol was moving in, plus he was starting to find his range off the mobility - which is key. But like I say it would have been interesting to see.

I honestly believe he was keen to get out of there. I think he was relieved to be splitting.

he was bad to start with but was starting to turn it. Hes quite old for a Flyweight so maybe he will have the rematch then retire. He was keen to get out of there but can you blame him it was a bad bad cut. who did you have winning?

Thats true but I never scream "Robbery!!!" when I have a 1 or 2 point split on my card, and to me thats the type of fight we are talking here.

there was no robbery i thought a SD was perfect i had it 1 to Cotto

Very true. You saw Calderon's response when asked a similair question.



The Cadleron fight was dirtier! Some of the hysteria in General about Cotto's - mad Paulfv started a thread entitled "i have lost all respect for Cotto" detailing the horrific "deliberate" punch to the back of the head, low blow and "bodyslam" - "dirty tactics" made for tough reading. As the man once said, you're not in there to dance.

The Clotto fight wasnt dirty but it was a tough physical fight

[GazOC]

Cotto has gone up a lot in my book after last night. I'm still not convinced he handles pressure well esp. when he'd on the ropes (he still does that direction feint which ends up leaving him bang in front of his opponent and square on) but he showed a real heart last night.

[dan-b]

Calderon could definitely have continued. I wouldn't go as far to say he 'bitched out' but when you consider he was told by the HBO TV execs that 'a good performance here can push you on to bigger things' he hardly looked to put on a show did he?

Personally I think Clottey was engaging in histrionics when he was down from the 'throw'. No need for a rematch here, Cotto has limited time left, won fair and square and needs a bigger fight.

[GPater11093]

i really highly rated Calderon but after last night he is definitly slipping maybe time to call it aday

[McGrain]

he He was keen to get out of there but can you blame him it was a bad bad cut. who did you have winning?



Well blame is a strong word, but I thought there was a marked difference between his attitude to a bad cut and Cotto's attitude to a bad cut. When you consider this may have been Calderon's last chance to impress the US tv people, it's even more surprising.

I think the technical draw was a pretty reasonable result.

[McGrain]

No need for a rematch here, Cotto has limited time left, won fair and square and needs a bigger fight.

Agree.

I would like to see a rematch just because I thought that was a good one, but no need for one. If Cotto moves onto bigger better things that's fine with me.

[GPater11093]

Is Calderon past it does he know hes past it maybe thats why he wanted out

[mak65]

of the boys who stayed up im in the first you up you lazy bastards?

what do you think of it now after being able to sleep on it
i can't comment as i've had no sleep and am as tired as fuck. reminds me of when i smoked a quarter. :tired:tired:tired

[trotter]

trotter..

go to 6.20 here...i think this is where clottey hurt his left...and watch as he goes back to the corner...he looks like he's telling his corner that he's hurt it.
to me it was an explaination for the 6th round.

maybe i'm wrong though


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Yeah, could well be Doug

After he landed a left there he decided to start moving for no real reason, like he was having a think about it, and he definitely showed it to the corner on his way back

And thinking about it he threw far less of those left uppercut/hooks as the fight went on (he threw far less of everything to be fair)

He's got a history of hand trouble, it wouldn't surprise me

[Ilesey]

I thought it was a great scrap, with Cotto proving he has the balls to tough it out again after losing to Margo.

I had Cotto comfortabley ahead 116 - 111 but have been slated for it. Meh, he was a deserved winner.

[D-MAC]

God, I feel like shit:barf




Anyway, it was an entertaining fight; not a classic by any means but a good contest between two the best at WW. I predicted Cotto 116-112, so I'm happy about that being broadly in line with two of the judge's scorecards.

Bit of a surprise that it was actually Cotto who came on strong down the stretch to take the later rounds, rather than Clottey.

The General Forum is a fucking mess of spastic threads this morning.

[GazOC]

The General Forum is a fucking mess of spastic threads this morning.

It was like that literally 10 minutes after the final bell. Judging by some of the theads you'd think some people had never watched boxing before in their lives.

[doug.ie]

i thought the commentators hadnt watched boxing before

[D-MAC]

It was like that literally 10 minutes after the final bell. Judging by some of the theads you'd think some people had never watched boxing before in their lives.

I just took a quick peep.

The discussion on the fight is like three pages deep, and its all kneejerk over-the-top rubbish.

I shouldn't really be surprised though.

[GazOC]

I posted a "have boxing fans become wimps" thread but no ones taken up the challenge yet!!

[D-MAC]

I posted a "have boxing fans become wimps" thread but no ones taken up the challenge yet!!

:rofl

Strange, I would have thought all the caveman types over there would be like moths to the light with that kinda thread.

[D-MAC]

I posted a "have boxing fans become wimps" thread but no ones taken up the challenge yet!!

Taking off now:good

[ishy]

Cotto's record at WW looks pretty decent doesn't it?

Wins over top 10 fighters in:
Clottey
Judah
Mosely
Quintana

and then some average/decent names in Urkal, Gomez and Jennings.

[GazOC]

Cotto's record at WW looks pretty decent doesn't it?

Wins over top 10 fighters in:
Clottey
Judah
Mosely
Quintanta

and then some average/decent names in Urkal, Gomez and Jennings.

Very good set of wins but I can't help thinking that, along with the Margo fight, he's putting a lot of miles on his body to get them.

[fenian 67]

i thought it was a good little fight.i had it 115-113 cotto and i just scored it again there on the repeat and got the same.am i the only one on here that buncey didnt read an email from last night?:-( and id like to congratul;ate myself for picking cotto by split decision in the prediction league in the lounge.id also like to kick myself for not betting on it

[ishy]

Very good set of wins but I can't help thinking that, along with the Margo fight, he's putting a lot of miles on his body to get them.



:think He was nowhere near his best against Clottey last night but that may be more to do with Clottey and his style than Cotto himself.

The Margarito fight must have surely took a lot out of him and the Mosely fight as well to a lesser extent. Plus he had those wars against the likes of Torres at LWW.

What do you think of Cotto fighting Pacquiao next?

I'd much rather seen Pac fight the winner of Mayweather-Marquez with Cotto rematching Mosely. The winners of both fights should then fight each other. However, this is boxing and the chances of that actually happening are slim :lol:,

[GazOC]

I think Pac vs Mosely to fight the winner of Maywether vs JMM. Cotto vs Berto would be interesting.

[El Cepillo]

Just watched the fight now. Thought Cotto won close but clearly. Was surprised it was SD.

[djoc175]

of the boys who stayed up im in the first you up you lazy bastards?

what do you think of it now after being able to sleep on it
What,you went to bed?;)

[fenian 67]

i was just reading some of the threads in general.how have people lost respect for cotto after last night?i respect him more now for pulling out a hard fought victory.also how did you lot score the first round?10-8 or 10-9

[ishy]

I think Pac vs Mosely to fight the winner of Maywether vs JMM. Cotto vs Berto would be interesting.

I think Cotto would stop him. DiBella might now be willing to make the fight if he thinks Cotto has slipped.

[GPater11093]

What,you went to bed?;)

yeh at 6

i was debating staying up but was knackered the only fight i couldnt sleep after it was Cotto vs Margarito where i was so excited i couldnt sleep

[djoc175]

yeh at 6

i was debating staying up but was knackered the only fight i couldnt sleep after it was Cotto vs Margarito where i was so excited i couldnt sleep
:lol: I went to bed of course

I couldn't sleep after Froch/Taylor,that was mental

[Bodysnatcher]

Cotto showed heart and ring smarts. Clottey was the underdog and I can't help rooting for them, but in those last three rounds it was hard to find any definitely in his favour, Cotto's movement was so good.

Clottey piled it on some rounds and when he jabbed and came through with the right hand - he looked powerful in those mid-rounds - but Cotto just sucked the momentum out of him at the end, and with the knockdown especially he'd pulled quite a few of those early rounds, plus the 6th when he used Clottey as a punchbag.

Absorbing stuff, would like to see a re-match at some point, especially because of the cut raising `what if?` questions, but it seems unlikely to happen.

[D-MAC]

i was just reading some of the threads in general.how have people lost respect for cotto after last night?i respect him more now for pulling out a hard fought victory.also how did you lot score the first round?10-8 or 10-9

I thought the first round was close coming to the end, so I gave it 10-8 to Cotto following the kd.

I think the norm for scoring a 10-9 in this situation is if one fighter has dominated the round, but suffered a flash kd along the way; no way Clottey was dominating that opener in my eyes.

[fenian 67]

I thought the first round was close coming to the end, so I gave it 10-8 to Cotto following the kd.

I think the norm for scoring a 10-9 in this situation is if one fighter has dominated the round, but suffered a flash kd along the way; no way Clottey was dominating that opener in my eyes.
i had clottey winning the round till the kd and the kd was so late in the round i didnt think it warranted a 10-8 so i gave it 10-9 cotto

[GazOC]

We were scoring the fignt round by round on here and I scored the 1st a 10-9, I was very much in the minority though. I had Clottey clearly winning the first and to give Cotto a 10-8 would have made the knockdown (which wasn't a heavy one) worth 3 points.

[GPater11093]

i thought Cotto was winning the first anyway so i gave it 10-8 i even said to my bro just before the KD im giving this round to Cotto

[LHL]

Got in just as the Calderon fight got stopped. I was drunk managed to stay up until 10am somehow watching fresh prince. Going to have to watch the fight again before even trying to make a comment on it :lol:

Must have been good though as i didn't drift off

[KenDubbs]

I wouldn't score the fight last night as I had bet on Clottey to win a decision and my bias would have just got in the way.

Having watched it back this afternoon I had Cotto winning 115-112. If it wasn't for the flash knockdown at the end of the first round I would have scored it a draw. I gained a bit more respect for Cotto as well as he could have easily complained about the cut and won a technical decision after the 4th round but he wanted to fight on.

[brown bomber]

I'm struggling to see how anyone can give Clottey the edge. But Clottey is a good fighter and I think Cotto is on the slide.

[TFFP]

Nah, I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with Cotto, I just think he's faced very tough opposition for his style. Margarito has a very good chin, there is still no doubt about that, and he never stopped coming and it really put Cotto's weakest area (stamina) under strain. The cut didn't help.

Again last night, he was against a huge guy that is very difficult to hit cleanly, and again he was cut badly.

If he faced Shane again, I believe he'd look better.

[brown bomber]

Nah, I don't think so. There is nothing wrong with Cotto, I just think he's faced very tough opposition for his style. Margarito has a very good chin, there is still no doubt about that, and he never stopped coming and it really put Cotto's weakest area (stamina) under strain. The cut didn't help.

Again last night, he was against a huge guy that is very difficult to hit cleanly, and again he was cut badly.

If he faced Shane again, I believe he'd look better.Maybe I just think Cotto faced a similer set of problems against Ndou and looked much more creative and solid. It seems crazy but that jump from 140-147 has always been a real challenge. Cotto just doesn't look the same force up there.

[TFFP]

It's true he doesn't look that strong at welterweight. Not as in him being weak, but the opponents are so damn strong. It's amazing the difference between a European/Domestic class welterweight in Jennings, and then Cotto, and then these guys Margarito, Clottey and Williams.

N'dou is pretty limited though. Clottey actually had suprisingly fast hands and was quite precise with his punches, and Margarito punched a lot more and lot harder than N'dou.

I think he's just facing tougher opposition rather than anything, and styles will also play a part. A small guy like Floyd is not going to put him under huge strain, and he matches up well against Mosley.

[Davro]

Anyone giving Clottey the fight must have been giving him extra points for his ten point dive :lol:

Reminded me of Didier Drogba - one of the strongest and most durable blokes in his sport during most situations, but beahves like a tart if it means he might gain an advantage.

[brown bomber]

It's true he doesn't look that strong at welterweight. Not as in him being weak, but the opponents are so damn strong. It's amazing the difference between a European/Domestic class welterweight in Jennings, and then Cotto, and then these guys Margarito, Clottey and Williams.

N'dou is pretty limited though. Clottey actually had suprisingly fast hands and was quite precise with his punches, and Margarito punched a lot more and lot harder than N'dou.

I think he's just facing tougher opposition rather than anything, and styles will also play a part. A small guy like Floyd is not going to put him under huge strain, and he matches up well against Mosley.I was impressed by Clottey he was like a shitty version of Ike Quartey.

Ike Quartey > Miguel Cotto based on last night... What you think Tffp?

[TFFP]

Yep, if Clottey punched as hard as Quartey he'd have won last night. That was my worry, for such a big guy he isn't that hard of a puncher. He couldn't even stop Corrales way past prime above his best weight.

[kosaros]

I was impressed with Clottey, I think I had cotto winning by maybe one or two points after watching it again today (I thought Clottey won when watching live). I would like to see a rematch.

[faisal1203]

of the boys who stayed up im in the first you up you lazy bastards?

what do you think of it now after being able to sleep on it

I got up at about 3ish lol

n i had it 116-112 cotto

[gasman]

Cotto showed heart and ring smarts. Clottey was the underdog and I can't help rooting for them, but in those last three rounds it was hard to find any definitely in his favour, Cotto's movement was so good.

Clottey piled it on some rounds and when he jabbed and came through with the right hand - he looked powerful in those mid-rounds - but Cotto just sucked the momentum out of him at the end, and with the knockdown especially he'd pulled quite a few of those early rounds, plus the 6th when he used Clottey as a punchbag.

Absorbing stuff, would like to see a re-match at some point, especially because of the cut raising `what if?` questions, but it seems unlikely to happen.

I agree with this.

I thought Clottey should have been braver and followed up on some of those effective jabs and single straight shots, but at the same time I was impressed with Cotto's movement (which Jennings praised on Buncey's show) I think it really helped him overcome the liability of lack of vision due to the cut. Cotto deserves credit for fighting on when he got the cut so early. I am looking forward to watching this one over again.

[mike464]

Clottey started crying about the decision afterwards but why on Earth didn't he do anything (besides desperately try to get a point taken away from Cotto) in the 11th and 12th?

Also, he didn't want to continue after he fell on the floor when an attempted hold didn't work while Cotto gets a terrible cut but shows no signs of wanting to give up.

I can't say I feel too bad for the guy.

[GPater11093]

i stayed up all night so i might have been tired ill score it imorn and see

[Axl_Nose]

I think Cotto is a true warrior. We've seen a fair bit of bitching out with cuts recently but Miguel has set a new benchmark. Clottey, on the other hand, was trying to get Cotto DQd. I'm really glad the right man got the decision and I wonder if Mayweather will fight Cotto now. I doubt it.

I have to disagree with this post somewhat .. I wasnt impressed with Cotto at all, the guy has heart, theres no question about that but 2 things struck me about last nights fight.

1. Cotto's guard is shocking, he ships far too many punches when his guard is up, fighters like Clottey and Margarito just found it far too easy punching through the guard, he really needs to tighten that up. Theres no point in even having a guard if the majority of punches thrown are getting through it.

2. Cotto is a guy that can only fight at 'his' pace, now Clottey really didnt expose this because he was happy to work at Cotto's pace but if a guy puts him under any kind of pressure he's a guy that looks for a way out, he looks to avoid until he can re-establish his methodical pace ..

It was an entertaining fight and im glad Cotto won because Clottey didnt show the desired hunger to beat him in those last few rounds and the fact Clottey was diving around everywere and moaning at the referee.
If Clottey's attitude didnt stink then he could of beaten Cotto last night. I'm convinced that Cotto is there for the taking, he is a very good Welterweight but hes never going to acheive 'Great' status, of the last 30 years in the 147 division, he's a guy that would give Oscar, Tito and Quartey competitive fights but for me he would be 'easy meat' for the true 147 big guns, Leonard, Hearns and Curry

[doug.ie]

i had clottey winning the round till the kd and the kd was so late in the round i didnt think it warranted a 10-8 so i gave it 10-9 cotto

thats what i thought too

[mike464]

thats what i thought tooKnockdowns in the last minute really shouldn't count. Knockdowns in the first minute are too early to count as knockdowns too.