Did Louis' contract for Walcott I state that he had to come in below 212 lbs?

[ChrisPontius]

I just read this. If so, why?

[SuzieQ49]

Dont tell me you read it in Bert Sugars "Greatest Fights" book. Thats where I read it too. Honestly, if you look at All of Louis fights around that time(including the rematch) he was pretty much coming in at all of those fights at a average 212lb. So if your suggesting Louis was drained, I would argue against it.

[ChrisPontius]

I'm not arguing anything, i just read it in the Boxing Register (4th edition). Contractual obligations like that could've saved Samuel Peter's career.

[janitor]

I find it curious that they would make a stipulation that he came in bellow an arbitrary weight that he was generaly coming in around anyway.

[McGrain]

I'm not arguing anything, i just read it in the Boxing Register (4th edition). Contractual obligations like that could've saved Samuel Peter's career.


There's a suggestion about this in Ring this month, that the stipulated weight would be different for every fighter, but that there should be a weight limit for each hw.

[guncho]

samuel's should be no more then 240

[Rebel-INS]

There's a suggestion about this in Ring this month, that the stipulated weight would be different for every fighter, but that there should be a weight limit for each hw.

Would be great, might stop these fat idiots rolling around the ring.

[HomicideHenry]

That story is a load of bullshit. Walcott made everyone look bad, didnt have a damn bit to do with Louis being overweight or older. Simple as that.

[Longhhorn71]

No such thing as a "catchweight" at Hvywt.

If Willie Pep at 126 lbs K.O.s Louis, he is the champ.

[ChrisPontius]

That story is a load of bullshit. Walcott made everyone look bad, didnt have a damn bit to do with Louis being overweight or older. Simple as that.

I thought it was kind of weird, too. But what i'm wondering is where this story started.

It sounds like an excuse for Louis' poor performance, but it must have a foundation somewhere. The fact that it's around does suggest that heavyweights sometimes had a contractual weight obligation? It would make no sense otherwise.

[mcvey]

I just read this. If so, why?

Dont know about this ,but Louis came in just under 200lbs for the first Conn fight because he was bothered by being perceived as the bully against the small Conn. Louis said he dried out to make the wieght and it severely affected his performance.

[janitor]

samuel's should be no more then 240

230 or 225 would be much better.

[DamonD]

There's a suggestion about this in Ring this month, that the stipulated weight would be different for every fighter, but that there should be a weight limit for each hw.
I don't think that's a bad idea at all.

I can see some fighters complaining but generally being out of shape leads to a poor or losing performance anyway, so it should be wise.

[Mendoza]

I just read this. If so, why?

I never read anything that said Louis had to be below a certain weight. However, the first fight had its share of contractual problems before the two entered the ring.

Walcott's management flat out objected to Donovan being the referee. Donovan was Louis refereed and worked 17 of his fights. Sometimes Donovan's score cards were absolutely corrupt. An example would be Donovan's score card in Louis vs Farr. Donovan only gave Farr 1 round out of 15!

Walcott's management succeed in protest, and Donovan was replaced with Goldstien who correctly called the first fight for Walcott, but it was not enough as the other two judges sided with Louis.

Louis was not going to lose on points in the Garden. His management and matchmakers were well connected here.

[ChrisPontius]

I never read anything that said Louis had to be below a certain weight. However, the first fight had its share of contractual problems before the two entered the ring.

Walcott's management flat out objected to Donovan being the referee. Donovan was Louis refereed and worked 17 of his fights. Sometimes Donovan's score cards were absolutely corrupt. An example would be Donovan's score card in Louis vs Farr. Donovan only gave Farr 1 round out of 15!

Walcott's management succeed in protest, and Donovan was replaced with Goldstien who correctly called the first fight for Walcott, but it was not enough as the other two judges sided with Louis.

Louis was not going to lose on points in the Garden. His management and matchmakers were well connected here.

Or it could have been "bad" judging? Especially back then, aggression was scored heavily upon. I remember reading Louis say that what Ali did was not fighting. That is how they saw it through the optics of the '30's.

The fact that he lost quite wide to Charles, who out-fought him, supports this.

I don't think that's a bad idea at all.

I can see some fighters complaining but generally being out of shape leads to a poor or losing performance anyway, so it should be wise.

It would be a great idea to implement for the promoters actually.
Unless we're talking about Butterbean, promoters profit every bit as much from their boxer being in top shape as the boxers themselves do. Given how much control they have over their fighters, i'm actually surprised that it has not happened yet.


Edit: I think there are two obstacles in this.

1. Unhealthy dehydration. You can bet that the Arreola's of this world would still not train properly. To prevent this, i would suggest they weigh in 3 days in advance and another time close before the fight, all at or below the proper limit.

2. Some boxers would consider it a choice to bulk up and don't want a promoter-limited trainer schedule. I don't think this is too relevant however.