Cotto-Pacquiao: How does the Brit Forum think this will go?

[ishy]

Looks like this might be made for November. Imagine the reaction a year or so ago if someone said Pac would beat Cotto :lol::lol:. Seems possible now.

So how do we see this going (if it happens)?

[TFFP]

Pacquiao would win.

[kosaros]

Pac by stoppage for me. Cotto has a suspect defence which I think Pacquiao could exploit.

[gasman]

Pac will stop Cotto late in the fight.

I agree with what another poster said on another thread, Cotto looks on the slide (still better than most) but he was there for the taking against Clottey.

[safc1990]

People forget that Pac's chin has barely been tested above 130, not sure if he'll have the chin to cope with Cotto's punches. I'd love to save enough money to get to Vegas for this though.

[brown bomber]

Cotto via pts.

[LHL]

Cotto late TKO or UD

[Guy]

Cotto quits on one knee.:deal

[Davro]

Pacquiao would win.

Cotto is too big and skilled for Pacquiao - this fight is all wrong for him. Cotto's powerful jabs and straights would grind Pac down, with Cotto continually moving and working the body with hooks.

In this fight, Cotto's range is all important - he can hit from from the outside and hurt him when Pac moves in. I think Pacquiao would get KOd here.

[Mike_S]

Pacquiao via late stoppage for me but I can see him going down from a stiff Cotto jab.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Tough points decsion for pac

[kosaros]

Cotto is too big and skilled for Pacquiao - this fight is all wrong for him. Cotto's powerful jabs and straights would grind Pac down, with Cotto continually moving and working the body with hooks.

In this fight, Cotto's range is all important - he can hit from from the outside and hurt him when Pac moves in. I think Pacquiao would get KOd here.

And you think this fight is all right for Cotto?

I give Cotto a 30% chance in this fight, will making catch-weight have a problem? speed, power and workrate also a problem to Cotto?

[ScouseLad]

Cotto looks on the slide

I dont see the evidence for this at all. Granted he lost a fight, but there is no shame in losing that one. And the first 6 rounds were still phenomenol from Cotto.

Since his defeat he's whooped Jennings, no surprise there even if he was shot. And got a (deserved) decision against a very tough fighter who is very hard to look good against, and that was with a horrendous cut from round 3.

I was actually really impressed with the way he held up in that fight, and if he was on the slide as some are claiming im pretty sure he'd of gone down at some point.

I cant say he's at his best now because theres not really been much chance to see it due to him fighting someone he's lightyears ahead of and that cut against Clottey, but equally I dont see anything to suggest he's on the slide at all.

I think he's got plenty left, though will probably end up similar to Hatton at some point.

[BURNLEYBLUE]

Fuck knows but I hope they make it. That would be a fight worth a flight to Vegas.
My money will be going on whatever master Roach predicts.

[TFFP]

Cotto is too big and skilled for Pacquiao - this fight is all wrong for him. Cotto's powerful jabs and straights would grind Pac down, with Cotto continually moving and working the body with hooks.

In this fight, Cotto's range is all important - he can hit from from the outside and hurt him when Pac moves in. I think Pacquiao would get KOd here.
Nah. Forget about being big. Big don't beat Pacquiao, unless you do something ridiculous like match him with Pavlik. Big often correlates with being slower than what Pacquiao is accustomed to, whilst also making his speed even more of a killer.

Cotto's defence isn't very good, its easy to punch right through his guard. That is going to be an absolute killer for him against the speed of a sharpshooter like Pacquiao.

You are presuming Cotto can even impose his fight on Pacquiao. Very difficult to do, if Pacquiao uses his movement.

I think Cotto would be a punchers chance. A better than average punchers chance mind, because Cotto is an excellent timer of punches, and is the hardest puncher Pacquiao will have fought. Far better of a chance than Hoya or Hatton were, in which I picked Pac both times.

[dan-b]

Pac stops him late but not because Cotto is 'shot' as some are suggesting. The weaknesses people are using as indicators for Miguel being on the slide have always been there. Pac should have no concerns about taking this fight at 147.

[Davro]

Nah. Forget about being big. Big don't beat Pacquiao, unless you do something ridiculous like match him with Pavlik. Big often correlates with being slower than what Pacquiao is accustomed to, whilst also making his speed even more of a killer.

Cotto's defence isn't very good, its easy to punch right through his guard. That is going to be an absolute killer for him against the speed of a sharpshooter like Pacquiao.

You are presuming Cotto can even impose his fight on Pacquiao. Very difficult to do, if Pacquiao uses his movement.

I think Cotto would be a punchers chance. A better than average punchers chance mind, because Cotto is an excellent timer of punches, and is the hardest puncher Pacquiao will have fought. Far better of a chance than Hoya or Hatton were, in which I picked Pac both times.

I kind of understand what you're saying.

I think it all comes down to whether Cotto's chin is on the slide too. There looked a couple of times when Clottey had him jarred the other nite. But Cotto ate all the leather Mosley landed on him and still persevered with his counter punching - is Pacquiao really that much faster or powerful than Shane? - I don't think so. Back to Clottey, Cotto had the cut giving him problems, blood in his eyes and restricted vision, so it's tough to assess his reactions, defence and ability to take a punch - without theat cut he would have fought a much different fight.

If it's fought below 147lbs, Cotto might be drained a bit - but I don't see why he'd take it at 142 if he anticipates a struggle to make weight. In any case he'd be 10lbs heavier on fight night - another huge difference. The only fighter Pacquiao has fought disproportionate in size has been Oscar and David Diaz - a couple of walking punchbags, not aggressive powerful punchers where the added weight will tell.

I picked Pac v Hatton and Oscar too - the difference is Pac will be much more wary of being the aggressor v Cotto. Cotto has the range and a damaging jab and straight - each time Pacquiao comes into range he will be constantly eating them and they won't tickle. Clottey had an awesome defence, but Mosley took a bit of battering trying to get in range and Cotto showed some impressive counter punching skills when he needed to. But Pacquiao is much smaller than Mosley and will have to come even further inside - very risky v Cotto IMHO.

Another difference with Hatton is that Cotto won't go chasing Pacquiao like a clown and his chin exposed. Maybe I'm glorifying Cotto too much, but I think his defence and counter punching skills are quite sound - a department in Hatton which was basic to the extreme. And the difference with Oscar is that Cotto is a warrior, not accustomed to being a punch bag. Oscar let Pac get on the inside and have him on the ropes - Cotto has good counterpunching skills, and good range - Pac won't get inside Cotto like that.

Also before the Hatton fight, many fans questioned Pac's ability to take a body shot. Well if he is vulnerable, Cotto will be working his ribs and giving him problems.

This will be the hardest fight of Pacquiao's career - I just see it being too much for him. If he goes up to 147, I dread the thought of Pac v Clottey or Margarito for similar reasons - he would get eaten alive.

[McGrain]

Cotto has slowed down and doesn't look like he has the smarts to compensate, a la Wlad...so in a computer game, Pacquiao would cut him to fucking ribbons, no question - it could even be embarrassing.

But these boys live in the real world. The fact is, Pacquiao's punch resistance is untested, in earnest, above 130.

Cotto can hit a bit at 147.

That doesn't mean that Pacquiao is going to fall over as soon as Cotto hits him, neccessarily, but it means that if he DOES end up in a fight weth a rejivinated Miguel Cotto, there's a big, fat, black hole of an unknown there. So it's an intriguing one...it's not going to points is all i'm willing to say as far as a pick goes, at this stage.

[mgmvegas]

love both fighters and whilst it's stupid to write manny off i think cotto will just be too powerful for manny especially if it's taken at 147 .

[safc1990]

My money will be going on whatever master Roach predicts.

I can predict right now he'll say Cotto in 5. ;)

Na just messing the last 3 Pac fights the guy has been an oracle.

[McGrain]

IMaybe I'm glorifying Cotto too much, but I think his defence and counter punching skills are quite sound.

That's old Cotto, imo. Post Margarito he's different.

Cotto always took a moment to get set - he was very sound, good word, but he took a moment. Against Jennings, who is a decent mover, to be fair, it was awful. And it's worse after he gets hit. In other words, he freezes momentarily upon getting hit. What he is capable of and what he does...they're different now, sadly.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He gets hit through and around his guard and shows absolutley no head movement at all. He does not adjust his guard. Belattedly, he splutters into life and shows the type of old form you are, quite fairly, talking about. This will get him fucking killed against the Little Man. He will dissect him like a frog.

But.

[Fat Joe]

Cotto KO. He's no Ricky Hatton.

[fenian 67]

cotto ko in 5-7 rounds.

[Davro]

That's old Cotto, imo. Post Margarito he's different.

Cotto always took a moment to get set - he was very sound, good word, but he took a moment. Against Jennings, who is a decent mover, to be fair, it was awful. And it's worse after he gets hit. In other words, he freezes momentarily upon getting hit. What he is capable of and what he does...they're different now, sadly.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He gets hit through and around his guard and shows absolutley no head movement at all. He does not adjust his guard. Belattedly, he splutters into life and shows the type of old form you are, quite fairly, talking about. This will get him fucking killed against the Little Man. He will dissect him like a frog.

But.

Like I said before, the cut affected that fight - he had blood dripping into his lead eye and was struggling to see Clottey's punches coming.

Immediately after that incident he was on the backfoot, fighting a very cautious fight. He was protecting a bad cut, could not see punches coming, had delayed reactions from the punches he HAD taken - and tbf - that video was the closest Cotto came to getting KOd. he couldn't go for the KO (like Round 6) because Clottey has one of the best chins in boxing, is a powerful and durable athlete and it would have been way too risky. Against Pacquiao I can't see Cotto fighting on the backfoot like that, even with a cut like that...

Cotto was doing fine up until the cut IMHO - although I do agree he has not been his solid aggressive self since the Margarito fight.

[McGrain]

Like I said before, the cut affected that fight - he had blood dripping into his lead eye and was struggling to see Clottey's punches coming.

.

In the Jennings fight, also, Jennings was scoring and then Cotto was taking to long to reset and Jennings was getting away from him. Not for long of course, but it happened.

That split second he too to get ready has become a split second longer.

[TFFP]

I kind of understand what you're saying.

I think it all comes down to whether Cotto's chin is on the slide too. There looked a couple of times when Clottey had him jarred the other nite. But Cotto ate all the leather Mosley landed on him and still persevered with his counter punching - is Pacquiao really that much faster or powerful than Shane? - I don't think so. Back to Clottey, Cotto had the cut giving him problems, blood in his eyes and restricted vision, so it's tough to assess his reactions, defence and ability to take a punch - without theat cut he would have fought a much different fight.

If it's fought below 147lbs, Cotto might be drained a bit - but I don't see why he'd take it at 142 if he anticipates a struggle to make weight. In any case he'd be 10lbs heavier on fight night - another huge difference. The only fighter Pacquiao has fought disproportionate in size has been Oscar and David Diaz - a couple of walking punchbags, not aggressive powerful punchers where the added weight will tell.

I picked Pac v Hatton and Oscar too - the difference is Pac will be much more wary of being the aggressor v Cotto. Cotto has the range and a damaging jab and straight - each time Pacquiao comes into range he will be constantly eating them and they won't tickle. Clottey had an awesome defence, but Mosley took a bit of battering trying to get in range and Cotto showed some impressive counter punching skills when he needed to. But Pacquiao is much smaller than Mosley and will have to come even further inside - very risky v Cotto IMHO.

Another difference with Hatton is that Cotto won't go chasing Pacquiao like a clown and his chin exposed. Maybe I'm glorifying Cotto too much, but I think his defence and counter punching skills are quite sound - a department in Hatton which was basic to the extreme. And the difference with Oscar is that Cotto is a warrior, not accustomed to being a punch bag. Oscar let Pac get on the inside and have him on the ropes - Cotto has good counterpunching skills, and good range - Pac won't get inside Cotto like that.

Also before the Hatton fight, many fans questioned Pac's ability to take a body shot. Well if he is vulnerable, Cotto will be working his ribs and giving him problems.

This will be the hardest fight of Pacquiao's career - I just see it being too much for him. If he goes up to 147, I dread the thought of Pac v Clottey or Margarito for similar reasons - he would get eaten alive.
The one thing he has over Shane is the footwork and defence at this stage. Shane is a slugger and always has been. A counterpunching game is easier to implement against him than Pacquiao, who is quicker of foot and showing a lot more head movement these days.

I have to disagree about Margarito by the way. I don't think Margarito would be anywhere near quick enough to get near Pacquiao, and Pacquiao is not going to slow down like Cotto did. All that strength and physical advantage is not going to matter a jot unless he can put it to good use. And I don't think Margarito has the kind of power in one punch that would put Pacquiao down so for me he's a long shot against Pacquiao. It would look like David against Goliath, but David comes out on top.

[mughalmirza786]

At 147 - 70/30 for cotto
At 140 - 70/30 for pacquiao
At 144 - 60/40 for cotto

[onourway]

Pac has got to be quite a bit faster than Mosley at this stage of their careers.

Pac looked way faster than ODLH and Hatton, freakishly faster even, I don't think Mosley would look anywhere near that fast.

I think he'd really trouble Cotto with his speed. Cotto looked slower than I've ever seen him in the Clottey fight.

[BoppaZoo]

Pac TKO 5 yes i said and i havnt been wrong many times with Pacman.

He is in the form of his life and boxing at speed and angles that even PBF defense would have trouble with.

Cotto has very poor foot and head movement like someone else said. He goes missing in rounds and i bet Pacman would start with such speed Cotto would be left gob smacked.

TKO 5 For Pac the only man i feel that might prove me wrong against Pac is PBF.

[Dan684]

Without seeming like i'm hating on Cotto (because I'm not) but am I the only one who doesn't rate him that highly ?
I mean he's good but IMO he's no 'great'.
Before he got beat by Margarito he was being hailed on an almost 'second coming' level and I thought I was the only one not believing.
Now I will not criticize the fact he decided not to fight on, because I dont think thats in his nature and I think he genuinely HAD to stop. But I will criticize the fact that his defense is 'suspect' at the best, his movement is far for being on a level like PBF and Pacquiao, in fact Hatton has far better foot movement than him. He just hunts his opponents down with no head or lateral movement. A fighter like Pacquiao could pot shot him and move out of the way for 12 rounds easy, although I wouldn't see him needing the 12 rounds to do it.

[phonk]

What weight would they be fighting at?

147? I'd go for Cotto late round T/KO

140? I'd probably go for Pacman by UD

[McGrain]

@140 i'd go for Pacman TKO1!

[Jeff Young]

if clottey was hitting cotto cleanly, who is somewaht feather-fisted....

i see manny putting cotto on his ass, and this fight will be over in 7 or less.....

the p4p miguel cotto that version, was buried by a guy named antonio margarito, and all of cotto's dreams and aspirations with it.....

very sad story, but true

[Beeston Brawler]

Without seeming like i'm hating on Cotto (because I'm not) but am I the only one who doesn't rate him that highly ?
I mean he's good but IMO he's no 'great'.
Before he got beat by Margarito he was being hailed on an almost 'second coming' level and I thought I was the only one not believing.
Now I will not criticize the fact he decided not to fight on, because I dont think thats in his nature and I think he genuinely HAD to stop. But I will criticize the fact that his defense is 'suspect' at the best, his movement is far for being on a level like PBF and Pacquiao, in fact Hatton has far better foot movement than him. He just hunts his opponents down with no head or lateral movement. A fighter like Pacquiao could pot shot him and move out of the way for 12 rounds easy, although I wouldn't see him needing the 12 rounds to do it.

I agree with that entirely.

[El Cepillo]

Tough one. Head says Pac, heart says Cotto. So I'll go with..

Cotto via SD/MD

[Dan684]

Thanks Beeston, nice to know i'm not on my own :-)

[trotter]

Could be interesting because as someone said earlier in the thread, Cotto loves that little momentary pause to set himself before throwing a combination

Pacquaio would pounce on those pauses


But I'd go for Cotto, Pacquiao's achievements have been somewhat logic defying and somewhere along the line jumping 17 lbs in no time at all is going to get him beat up...

In my opinion he got Hatton and Oscar at very opportune times. Cotto is still very much live and he's a very, very good 147 fighter.

[kerrminator]

Cotto would kill him but thats if Pac can even make welter. If he cant then he should go fight in a division where he can make the weight. Pac seems to avoid fights where he doesnt have some sort of advantage. If you cant make 147lbs then dont fight there, simple!

[TFFP]

He can 'make' welter.

[kerrminator]

I mean actually have the fight at welter rather than some catchweight where Cotto ends up drained and dehydrated.

[thesham01]

i voted Pac by T/KO, on the basis that if its the same Cotto as the other night it will end mid to late rounds!

If the cut was the problem and his self-belief is now back, then i see a Cotto win.....

[djoc175]

Cotto would kill him but thats if Pac can even make welter. If he cant then he should go fight in a division where he can make the weight. Pac seems to avoid fights where he doesnt have some sort of advantage. If you cant make 147lbs then dont fight there, simple!
I'm not a Pacquiao fan,but what was his advantage vs Hatton?

When you are the best fighter in the world,you tend to have advantages over all opponents

[Welly]

I think Pac Man would win. He would be too quick and strong for Cotto who would struggle to avoid his punches and then get stopped late in the fight.

[john b]

At the moment I have decide never to back anyone other than pacquio after my last prediction went south.

[BIG WORM]

cotto

[kerrminator]

I'm not a Pacquiao fan,but what was his advantage vs Hatton?

When you are the best fighter in the world,you tend to have advantages over all opponents

With Hatton it was the same as it has been a lot with Pac. Hatton was past his best and the fights against Urango and Lazcano proved his stamina and punch resistance were no longer an asset of his. The fact he beat hatton so well deserves a bit of praise but only a fool would believe Pac could have done that to the Hatton of 05.

He done it with MAB and Morales too. I thought Erik was on the slide in the first Pac fight never mind the second or third. There was call outs from Juan Diaz and Guzman at a time both were coming off fantastic wins and those fights would have been at a weight they could all make easily and they were all in their primes.

Since beating Barrera in 2003(his best win imo) less than 50% of pacs opponents were coming off a win and I find that a bit suspect for a fighter who lays claim to the p4p title. (a majority of the guys coming from losses were the opponents he gets most accolades for)

Pacs a top level fighter but he aint the best out there imo.

There are plenty of guys he could face that wouldnt require a catchweight or any other special rules added but he seems to opt out. That my humble opinion of course :)

[widdy]

Without seeming like i'm hating on Cotto (because I'm not) but am I the only one who doesn't rate him that highly ?
I mean he's good but IMO he's no 'great'.
Before he got beat by Margarito he was being hailed on an almost 'second coming' level and I thought I was the only one not believing.
Now I will not criticize the fact he decided not to fight on, because I dont think thats in his nature and I think he genuinely HAD to stop. But I will criticize the fact that his defense is 'suspect' at the best, his movement is far for being on a level like PBF and Pacquiao, in fact Hatton has far better foot movement than him. He just hunts his opponents down with no head or lateral movement. A fighter like Pacquiao could pot shot him and move out of the way for 12 rounds easy, although I wouldn't see him needing the 12 rounds to do it.

cotto is no where near as goood as people think,good,but not that good,but then again pac is still untested at the heavyier weight,DLH was well shot and drained,and hatton looked like he got shot.
still think pac would be just way to fast for the slow moving cotto though:bbb

[widdy]

With Hatton it was the same as it has been a lot with Pac. Hatton was past his best and the fights against Urango and Lazcano proved his stamina and punch resistance were no longer an asset of his. The fact he beat hatton so well deserves a bit of praise but only a fool would believe Pac could have done that to the Hatton of 05.

He done it with MAB and Morales too. I thought Erik was on the slide in the first Pac fight never mind the second or third. There was call outs from Juan Diaz and Guzman at a time both were coming off fantastic wins and those fights would have been at a weight they could all make easily and they were all in their primes.

Since beating Barrera in 2003(his best win imo) less than 50% of pacs opponents were coming off a win and I find that a bit suspect for a fighter who lays claim to the p4p title. (a majority of the guys coming from losses were the opponents he gets most accolades for)

Pacs a top level fighter but he aint the best out there imo.

There are plenty of guys he could face that wouldnt require a catchweight or any other special rules added but he seems to opt out. That my humble opinion of course :)

just read your post,good points,probably spot on :good

[TFFP]

The Barrera that Pacquiao fought was 28 years old. Fail.

There is nobody more deserving of his p4p title than Pacquiao. He has the best resume anybody has had for a while.

[djoc175]

With Hatton it was the same as it has been a lot with Pac. Hatton was past his best and the fights against Urango and Lazcano proved his stamina and punch resistance were no longer an asset of his. The fact he beat hatton so well deserves a bit of praise but only a fool would believe Pac could have done that to the Hatton of 05.

He done it with MAB and Morales too. I thought Erik was on the slide in the first Pac fight never mind the second or third. There was call outs from Juan Diaz and Guzman at a time both were coming off fantastic wins and those fights would have been at a weight they could all make easily and they were all in their primes.

Since beating Barrera in 2003(his best win imo) less than 50% of pacs opponents were coming off a win and I find that a bit suspect for a fighter who lays claim to the p4p title. (a majority of the guys coming from losses were the opponents he gets most accolades for)

Pacs a top level fighter but he aint the best out there imo.

There are plenty of guys he could face that wouldnt require a catchweight or any other special rules added but he seems to opt out. That my humble opinion of course :)
I disagree with the top paragraph-Hatton was the best 140lber at the time and it was Pacs first fight there.Its easy to say he was past best now,but I doubt that people were saying the same after the Malignaggi fight

[TFFP]

I disagree with the top paragraph-Hatton was the best 140lber at the time and it was Pacs first fight there.Its easy to say he was past best now,but I doubt that people were saying the same after the Malignaggi fight
You are forgetting how people like to rewrite history.

Before the Hatton fight all the talk was that Pacquiao had not yet fought a live body above 130, how Diaz was rubbish (fair) and Oscar was shot.

They all told us how Hatton was never defeated at this weight, was big and strong, new trainer, looked better fighting Malignaggi etc.

It's downright shameful.

[chesh]

At 147 - 70/30 for cotto
At 140 - 70/30 for pacquiao
At 144 - 60/40 for cotto

I agree with this, except I'd favour Pac 60/40 at 144.

[djoc175]

You are forgetting how people like to rewrite history.

Before the Hatton fight all the talk was that Pacquiao had not yet fought a live body above 130, how Diaz was rubbish (fair) and Oscar was shot.

They all told us how Hatton was never defeated at this weight, was big and strong, new trainer, looked better fighting Malignaggi etc.

It's downright shameful.
Yep.
His punch resistance apparently became horrendous all of a sudden.IMO,Urango and Lazcano are not enough to justify this claim.Also,according to some,his lifestyle caught up with him-these 2 factors are non-falsifiable.It's also questionable whether these things would have such a sudden effect or more a gradual one.

People discussing Cotto/Pacquaio at 140,forget it.No way can Cotto weigh 140lbs again

[cjgloves]

How long will it take for Cotto's cut to heal?

[widdy]

You are forgetting how people like to rewrite history.

Before the Hatton fight all the talk was that Pacquiao had not yet fought a live body above 130, how Diaz was rubbish (fair) and Oscar was shot.

They all told us how Hatton was never defeated at this weight, was big and strong, new trainer, looked better fighting Malignaggi etc.

It's downright shameful.

its not rewriting history,people dident relise including me how much something quickly catchs up on you,it happens with a lot of fighters,hatton has been hit harder than that and his face aint moved,
it happens,unfortunatly to people like me who liked hatton and his fighting heart dident want to see it,
fuck me,and how it came crashing down around little old me as well:rofl

[TFFP]

its not rewriting history,people dident relise including me how much something quickly catchs up on you,it happens with a lot of fighters,hatton has been hit harder than that and his face aint moved,
it happens,unfortunatly to people like me who liked hatton and his fighting heart dident want to see it,
fuck me,and how it came crashing down around little old me as well:rofl
How do YOU know he's been hit harder or more importantly better than that? This boxing lark is not an exact science, a fighter might not punch as hard on paper but it depends on a lot of factors. He didn't even see that damn punch, it ain't nothing to do with how hard he was hit it was the fact Pacquiao was way too good and he couldn't see the angles Pacquiao was working.

Hypothetical scenario...Pacquiao outclasses Cotto and stops him in 5. Whether you think that will happen or not...lets say it does. What are we going to hear then? Is that another fighter on the slide that Pacquiao beat?

Come on, people gotta wise up. There is always excuses. Pacquiao been beating up past it fighters his whole career according to some. It's just not true.

[widdy]

ok then,he dident see it comeing,it caught him on the chin,dislodging his jawbone,sending a signal up to his brain,saying 'lie down,go to sleep'.ask a lot of people in the know,punch resistance goes mate,especially with pressure fighters like hatton.
luckly for me,i give up before it did,i wasent a pressure fight,just got hit a lot

i aint making excuses mate,hatton was beat,good and proper,if pac beats cotto,it wont suprise me in the slightest.i aint taking nowt away from pac,he is a lot better than people think,what will your excuse be if kessler gets beat off froch,lucky last second punch

[djoc175]

ok then,he dident see it comeing,it caught him on the chin,dislodging his jawbone,sending a signal up to his brain,saying 'lie down,go to sleep'.ask a lot of people in the know,punch resistance goes mate,especially with pressure fighters like hatton.
luckly for me,i give up before it did,i wasent a pressure fight,just got hit a lot

i aint making excuses mate,hatton was beat,good and proper,if pac beats cotto,it wont suprise me in the slightest.i aint taking nowt away from pac,he is a lot better than people think,what will your excuse be if kessler gets beat off froch,lucky last second punch
Punch resistance is non-falsifiable

[TheUzi]

It was Pacs speed that destroyed Hatton. If Hatton cant see the punches coming,he has no time to brace himself for getting hit,hence.....KO

I'd personally side with Cotto if he and Pac were to ever fight but for people to somehow try and discredit Pac is absurd.

[antcull]

I absolutely cannot decide on how this fight will go...

Like its been said before it would have been just ridicolous to even contemplate this matchup a year ago. The way Pac has been looking though....dont know if I can pick against him

[widdy]

Punch resistance is non-falsifiable

:huh

[beecho1988]

cotto KO

[Darni187]

Manny on points.

[djoc175]

:huh
You said punch resistance goes over time-there is no way of measuring punch resistance exactly,there is only our observations.It is too easy to say his punch resistance has gone on the back of a KO loss rather than look at it for what it really is-any version of Hatton would struggle with punches that quick and that accurate and IMO,the result would have been ultimately the same back in 05,06

[widdy]

You said punch resistance goes over time-there is no way of measuring punch resistance exactly,there is only our observations.It is too easy to say his punch resistance has gone on the back of a KO loss rather than look at it for what it really is-any version of Hatton would struggle with punches that quick and that accurate and IMO,the result would have been ultimately the same back in 05,06

fair enough,u can't measure punch resistance,i suppose u don't want a scientist hitting each boxer to check his resistance:good

but kostya hit him quick,fast and hard,maybe not faster than manny,but certainly harder,being a proven puncher at said weight,and he dident move(hardly)
ok it can't be proven scientifically i suppose,but it happens a lot,boxers losing punch resistance,really it dus:good

[Dan684]

Do you two lovers wanna carry this debate on over in a Hatton thread :-)

[widdy]

Do you two lovers wanna carry this debate on over in a Hatton thread :-)

erm sorry dan:rofl but i swear,ive never met him,bought him a drink and touched him with my love tool,honest:smh

[Dan684]

erm sorry dan:rofl but i swear,ive never met him,bought him a drink and touched him with my love tool,honest:smh

:lol::lol:

[kerrminator]

The Barrera that Pacquiao fought was 28 years old. Fail.

There is nobody more deserving of his p4p title than Pacquiao. He has the best resume anybody has had for a while.

If you think age has anything to do with a fighter being shot then thats a fail :p

not to mention I said Barrera was his best win (1st fight)

Morales packed the sport in a 29 and theres no way anyone can argue that he wasnt shot to shit in the end

[NO MAS]

I think Pac Man will let Cotto be the agrresor and let him become a victim of his own aggresion in the same way that he unpicked Hatton.....although I don't think that Cotto will throw the same taxi rankers as Hatton did....:yep

[mughalmirza786]

Cotto is a very good fighter but he isnt a great fighter. Everyone knows what happens when a great fighter meets a very good one.

[BoppaZoo]

I disagree with the top paragraph-Hatton was the best 140lber at the time and it was Pacs first fight there.Its easy to say he was past best now,but I doubt that people were saying the same after the Malignaggi fightThats it Hatton beat the piss out of Paulie.

And Pacman well you seen that shit we all seen that shit.

2 round beat down. Movement flush heavy shots, hooks , jabs , everything was working.

Hatton was in good form.

Pacman is just that good and since i feel probably the last Marquez fight he improved again. He was good as good as JMM because both those fight IMO could have gone either way. Against a Prime fighter like JMM.

Then the 3 beat downs he put on Diaz, Dela Hoya and Hatton were just insane.
It reminded me of a Prime Tyson but like a Mini Me version. I mean to prove all the doubters would a 6 round stoppage against Cotto be enough or would they say oh Cotto hasnt been the same since the Margo fight.

But fuck me its Cotto a natural 147 guy that can punch and has beaten some great fighters.

Or if he beat the piss out of PBF would they say oh but PBF has been retired for 2 years and was well past it.

I think the only thing which i feel would shut them the fuck up is if Pacman beat a Prime Paul Williams. Every other fighter they would find some BS excuse.

[TFFP]

Thats it Hatton beat the piss out of Paulie.

And Pacman well you seen that shit we all seen that shit.

2 round beat down. Movement flush heavy shots, hooks , jabs , everything was working.

Hatton was in good form.

Pacman is just that good and since i feel probably the last Marquez fight he improved again. He was good as good as JMM because both those fight IMO could have gone either way. Against a Prime fighter like JMM.

Then the 3 beat downs he put on Diaz, Dela Hoya and Hatton were just insane.
It reminded me of a Prime Tyson but like a Mini Me version. I mean to prove all the doubters would a 6 round stoppage against Cotto be enough or would they say oh Cotto hasnt been the same since the Margo fight.

But fuck me its Cotto a natural 147 guy that can punch and has beaten some great fighters.

Or if he beat the piss out of PBF would they say oh but PBF has been retired for 2 years and was well past it.

I think the only thing which i feel would shut them the fuck up is if Pacman beat a Prime Paul Williams. Every other fighter they would find some BS excuse.
There are a lot of excuses.

But I think people have got to realise there can't be an excuse for Morales, Barrera, Marquez AND Hatton. That shit is just ridiculous failure to give credit.

[Little Tyson]

Pacquiao by knockout i give it 5 or 6 rounds. I dont rate Cotto's guard. I rate his chin, but Hatton had an OK chin before Pacquiao. Pacquiao will be to quick.

[BoppaZoo]

There are a lot of excuses.

But I think people have got to realise there can't be an excuse for Morales, Barrera, Marquez AND Hatton. That shit is just ridiculous failure to give credit.
Im with you TFFP. I agree all those fights were huge fights against HOF's. 3 of them in there Prime.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Cotto will win this match up and stop Pacman. I am so confident that I would bet on it. Cotto is a significant step up from Pacman's last 3 victims because make no mistake that is what they were. Pacman will be up against a technical boxer puncher with skills, underrated speed, body punching ability and variety who knows how to fight southpaws.

[ishy]

Bump!!

This is officially on for November 14th :happy

[duranimal]

Nah. I think Cotto would be a punchers chance. A better than average punchers chance mind, because Cotto is an excellent timer of punches, and is the hardest puncher Pacquiao will have fought. Far better of a chance than Hoya or Hatton were, in which I picked Pac both times.

Yeh this could be a strange fight actually, he who takes the initiative here could get KO'd, Cotto was very slick defensivly against Mosley which shocked most pundits & Pacman was getting countered 2 death by Marquez in the 1st 3 rounds of the 2nd fight.

Cotto's defence seems 2 unravel a bit after about 7/8 rounds & Cotto is a bit of sharp shooter in the early rounds, this could turn into a chess match & may not open up until the last 3rd of the fight when Cotto's stamia may let him down allowing Manny 2 get his rapid combo's in, all providing that Manny is still there of coarse, as you rightly pointed out he's never been in with an excellent timer of punches as Cotta.

This fight is going 2 be a lot closer than people think trust me, all providing Cotto dose'nt get CUT:smoke

[kosaros]

Pac by stoppage for me. Cotto has a suspect defence which I think Pacquiao could exploit.

I have not changed my mind :deal:D

[Mandanda]

I think Cotto wins but i'm not happy that he has to go to 145 in my opinion if Pacquaio wants to beat Welterweights fight them at Welterweight and people who say it's only two pounds really don't know how important two pounds is to a fighter. I feel Cotto has the skills to beat Pacquiao he punches from different angles and puts combination's together and uses a good jab. Pacquaio won't have it as easy as he had with ODLH and Hatton.

['Ben']

I see Pacquiao wining this in about five or six rounds.... via brutal KO or stoppage. I think that Manny's too fast, too experienced and too strong mentally for Cotto. Pacquiao is a true throwback in his attitude towards fighting and if Cotto don't do well against fighters like that if they can also match him in skill.

[slip&counter]

damn, this is gonna be a war! its gonna be something from a saw movie, my stomach hurts just thinking about it

this fight has so many intangibles, to me its all about cotto and in what way he chooses to fight, is he methodically gonna hunt down manny in which case he could be made to look like he's fighting in slow motion, will he box on the back foot and try and counter pacquiao with his vicious left hooks or will he mix it up.

Cotto has shown he can fight in different ways and has many strings to his bow, he does everything well although not many things outstandingly, he's deceptively quick and strong, he counters well, can circle and box on the backfoot. Cotto is also a natural southpaw with a good right which will be key against the the style of manny along with his very good body punching

both these guys have been in many wars, the weight could make a difference, i need to make a thorough analysis and breakdown before making a decision, but i'm leaning towards cotto

[lolspud]

I have a feeling this is gonna be a major upset and Pac's gonna crumble quite easily. I hope it stays just a feeling though, even if I think Cotto's brilliant.

[Dan684]

Paquiao takes this and it wouldn't even be close. Cotto is worse than De La Haya was and the weight issue would affect him the same. Cotto gets picked apart and stopped later on. His constant stalking without head movement plays right into Pacquiao's hands.

[ishy]

Fuck it, I'm calling it: Cotto by TKO :yep

[Losfer_Words]

Pacman TKO 10. Cotto drops Pacman early but he rises and steadily cuts up Cotto and the ref stops it late after Cotto doesn't defend himself from Pacm,an's bunches of punches and his face gets bloodier. Wait and see:good. Cotto will give a good account of himself, IMO. Who fucking knows, though, we're all just guessing for Christ's sake!

[ishy]

Cotto T/KO

25030847, AK1, Baileys_tunes, beecho1988, bored, Briggs, Cervantes El G, Dick Turpin, duranimal, eborted_l, Evil Dead, fenian 67, hitandhope, icemax, JCB123, jj01709, kerrminator, Lee Mc, LHL, mak65, Mandanda, mossy141, Olu G. Rotimi, Ooft, phonk, theboy_racer, TheUzi, threethirteen, Wickio

Cotto UD

El Cepillo, northernstar83, RafaelGonzal, Sprint

Pacquiao T/K0

196osh, 48check, Beeston Brawler, BoppaZoo, ChippZ, cool-cat, dan-b, Dan684, Grant1, Guy, Jeff Young, JUSTAFIGHTFAN, Kaki, king s, kosaros, Kunobert, light-welter, Little Tyson, Losfer_Words, mattress, McGrain, Mike_S, mr_swagger, namsu55, NO MAS, PaRappaSan, Rangersfan1982, Realspitts, rockandrollstar, Ryuuzaki, stephen1632, thesham01, tonysoprano, Welly, widdy, Wilzo

Pacquiao UD

BamBam, Boro chris, chesh, cupid, Darni187, FLINT ISLAND, MightyLondoner, mughalmirza786, nulty, onourway, ShaneTheSherrif



Bump! Have any of you changed your minds?

[kosaros]

Nope :deal:yep

[Losfer_Words]

I was thinking about this earlier funnily enough. My stance is getting more ambiguous by the day:think. Nobody from 130 up has connected properly with Pac and Cotto isn't going to fall over so then you ask yourself how Pacquiao will cope if and when a real welterweight opponent (save 145 for the general:lol:) like Cotto lands.

Obvious as it may be, I think Pacquaio's speed will be the deciding factor in the fight. I'm changing to a Pacquaio UD but a close one. Who knows, next week I might pick Cotto by KO in the first:lol:.

[safc1990]

Nobody from 130 up has connected properly with Pac and Cotto isn't going to fall over so then you ask yourself how Pacquiao will cope if and when a real welterweight opponent (save 145 for the general:lol:) like Cotto lands.

That is exactly why I'm going for Cotto to win early.

[JudgeDredd]

A draw......Thought I'd be different.

[bored]

Cotto KO inside 8. Manny will start fast but Cotto won't be knocked out in 5 minutes and will actually land punches on Pacman. The hardest punches he'll have ever had to take as well.

Shame really, would have liked to see Pac-Mayweather, it would have been huge and great for the sport.

[teessider]

Late round Pac TKO or wide UD. i cant see Pac dropping Cotto but think as he gasses may overwhelm him for the ref to step in.

[PrideOfWales]

I think Pac gives Cotto fits early on. Too quick, too busy. But Cotto has so much to prove. He's been given a bit of a pass for what happened against Margarito and it's quite a shrewd fight to take at this juncture. Though the hype says differently, I'm not convinced that a small guy like Pacquaio can have the same effect that a big guy with dodgy handwraps can have.

And remember, Cotto himself was looking quite special up to the point where he started to get tagged.

I see this as one of those fights where the good big guy beats the good small guy. I think that Pacs wins over OLDHoya and Hatton have massively inflated his stock by an amount that will be punctured by a live guy somewhere near his prime. And lest we forget, Cotto is not shedding so much weight that he cannot move.

[teessider]

I actually give Cotto a fair amount of credit for the Margo fight. he looked awesome early on and was landing shots i think would KO Pac, but Pacs not Tony.
Cotto's too plodding IMO, Pacs far too quick, his in out style and movement will be too much.
As i said dont think he'll hurt Cotto big. Cotto will have Pac in trouble but think Roach will have him disciplined enough not too engage.

[TFFP]

Pacquiao will win one way or the other. I thought he'd definitely KO him initially but Cotto is tough.

[Primadonna Kool]

Miguel Cotto 6 - 7 round T.K.O.

Pacman won't win a round.......

[slip&counter]

Miguel Cotto 6 - 7 round T.K.O.

Pacman won't win a round.......

if that isn't just being sarcastic which as i've experienced on here is a little difficult to get over on a key board.

then give me some X's and O's

[JonOli]

. Imagine the reaction a year or so ago if someone said Pac would beat Cotto :lol::lol:.


Next year Pac v Klitschko

I say pac has the edge in the fight with Cotto, but I think it is more of a 50/50 fight than the odds suggest.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Nah. Forget about being big. Big don't beat Pacquiao, unless you do something ridiculous like match him with Pavlik. Big often correlates with being slower than what Pacquiao is accustomed to, whilst also making his speed even more of a killer.

Cotto's defence isn't very good, its easy to punch right through his guard. That is going to be an absolute killer for him against the speed of a sharpshooter like Pacquiao.

You are presuming Cotto can even impose his fight on Pacquiao. Very difficult to do, if Pacquiao uses his movement.

I think Cotto would be a punchers chance. A better than average punchers chance mind, because Cotto is an excellent timer of punches, and is the hardest puncher Pacquiao will have fought. Far better of a chance than Hoya or Hatton were, in which I picked Pac both times.

TFFP you are forgetting that Pacman's defence is not great, that he is prone to making mistakes and can be hurt to the body. Will be surprised if Pacman does not get knocked out by Cotto.

[D-MAC]

I fancy Cotto in this one.

Pac can't bully him, like Margarito, Lovemore Ndou and Clottey did. I can see Cotto giving away some of the earlier rounds, having problems with Pac's erky-jerky style and tremendous handspeed. Eventually he'll start timing Pac for his own big solid shots coming in. Cotto is the bigger and more intelligent fighter in this one (of course you could also have said that about DLH - I don't think Cotto will be that washed up yet though). Cotto by late stoppage or close UD decision.

[El Cepillo]

Prime Cotto will be the biggest and strongest fighter Pac has faced. Pac's speed might make the difference, but Cotto is quick too, and accurate enough to hurt the little Pinoy, every time he lands. If Pac can stay mobile and agile, then he can certainly win a UD. But I think Cotto's footwork is good enough to cut off the ring and really go to work. I see it being close on the cards but with Cotto stopping him before the stretch. A step too far for Pac, IMO.

[TFFP]

TFFP you are forgetting that Pacman's defence is not great, that he is prone to making mistakes and can be hurt to the body. Will be surprised if Pacman does not get knocked out by Cotto.
Pacquiao's defence is a lot better than Cotto's, I know that for damn sure. Pacquiao's new foot and head movement makes him a more difficult target than he used to be. He's no Willie Pep thats for sure but its improved.

Cotto is easily hit with an uppercut, and you can punch straight through his guard.

I see it differently, because I think Pacquiao will hit and hurt Cotto, I think he's just as likely to be hurt as Pacquiao is by the bigger man.

[rhinocoote]

Miguel Cotto 6 - 7 round T.K.O.

Pacman won't win a round.......
ah,it's the pac-hater again........:patsch
the only way this happens is if o'connor is reffing!

[slip&counter]

.........

[THE KNUCKLE]

Cotto far 2 big and strong,body shots will dismantle pac

[slip&counter]

Freddie is saying he "wont allow" Cotto to come in above 145. Would they really pull Pac out at the last minute with so much at stake? The rules of this fight are BS to me. Unlike the Floyd fight, Cotto is having to cut weight and put his title up. Does anyone know if (in some fucked up logic) Cotto might lose his strap on the scales if he comes in over 145?

Is it right to believe that the WBO are following their daddy WBC inaugural Diamond Belt in stripping Cotto if he's >145 on the scales. But in a high profile fight Cotto may get a chance to run it off say within a 2 hr window. Should be a moot point cause Cotto will make 45, just don't want him to kangaroo atkins diet and overshoot to a drained 43. Diamond belt will be something to behold bro: 800 real diamonds with 150 rubies n sapphires with 18kt gold center plate. Probably a $100k+ handcrafted piece!!

[antcull]

I just got a feeling this is a step too far for Pac.......we still dont that Pac can handle Cotto type power, and IMO....he wont be able too...

Hatton didnt even give himself a chance to hit Pac...and he could have hurt him if he landed.

Pac will cause Cotto problems early on...but once Cotto stands landing it will start to tell. By round 8 or 9 Pac will be out of there.

Basically the exact same prediction I made for Pac-Hatton :deal I gotta get it right this time :yep

[slip&counter]

Pacquiao has improved so much since the early days, don't you all remember how he could never box on the backfoot? how he had such a predictable punching pattern? how he used to lunch much more into punches, his lateral movement used to be largly ineffective, how he look like a one legged man in a ass kicking contest lol that right hand was basically useless before now Roach's got him doubling hooks, controllin distance and settin up with it. He's almost unrecognizable from the raw material of the early days plus he carries the weight well.

Cotto's jab is pretty good but I can only recall one fight (Marquez did it more with straight rights and is one of the best counter punchers in the game) where Manny was given fits with it against morales but it was a purer boxer with more skillset which made it effective. Cotto is more methodical and basic then that plus Manny has immense speed and a good slip game with his head movement & as i said he's improved immeasurably since Morales 1 can't see how he nullifys the speed watch how Cotto gets beaten to the punch and pedestrian he looks & news for yall manny ain't as small as you think.

[slip&counter]

I think Cotto is ripe for the picking, trust me they saw something thats why they made this fight, Those 11 rounds of plaster have left him with scar tissue, he was there for the taking against Clottey, but Josh is too damn inactive with that ear muff shell and is current disposition is one of a cautious, timid and somewhat lazy boxer. He's not someone rises up, engages and start's mixing it up for 3 mins of every round even when he badly needs to.

It's simply his disposition with the way he fights. It is so frustrating as fight fans to watch a guy like this that has all the physical tools and great Philly Shell defense to wipe just about everyone out at 147 or hell 154. But the same things that have made him great from an appearance standpoint are the same things holding him back from putting work in for 3 mins of every round and taking a fighter's green belt. His brain & boxing IQ don't transcend.

[slip&counter]

its official like a referee with a whistle Mayweather did a Million buys in a mismatch/recession/darkside competing.

Hmmm I wonder how this effects future Pacquiao negotiations. i'd imagine this gives him a big leverage

[slip&counter]

Everything is dictated by what happens on Nov 14th. And those three Shane dates are thanks to the HBO being in bed with GBP. There's a lot of scenarios. Pacquiao losses he fights JMM again. He wins he fights Floyd. Cotto losses he fights Shane and the winner gets the winner of Floyd vs Pacquiao. Oh brace yourself: Margarito comes back and fights Clottey again because at that point they'll both be desperate.

[slip&counter]

Scenario no.2: Shane fights Berto: the winner gets the winner of Floyd vs Cotto (becasue he beat Pacquiao) Manny then faces Amir Khan because JMM is fighting Hatton in the Spring lol! Jones vs Hopkins and the marquee reads "60/40"

[Primadonna Kool]

Is this fight at another fucking catch weight..?

[slip&counter]

^ yep

[Mandanda]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]=44

[Dan684]

As if people have got Cotto on here....... And he's the favourite. Wht is going on with the Brit forum :-(

[Mandanda]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[John18]

I just can't stop picking against Pacman (altho I knew in my heart he would KO Hatton).

Just realised its at a catchweight though. Not happy with that. If he wants to fight welters, fight welters. Seems he's not content with fighting old men, he now wants to beat weight drained guys as well.

[slip&counter]

how come so many didn't know this was a catchweight fight?

[Healy]

So far, 121 votes

Pac 51.2%
Cotto 48.8%