Fighters whose ideal weight class didn't exist in their day

[My2Sense]

What are some examples of fighters you feel would've been at their best at a weight class that didn't exist in their time, such as a junior, super, or crusier weight?

For example, I've always thought Billy Conn was probably the best super-middleweight -sized fighter ever, as he beat many quality fighters at 160, 175, and heavyweight, while his best weight seemed to be around 168.

I've always felt Henry Armstrong's ideal weight was jr. lightweight. He was able to suck down to make 126, but he wasn't a full lightweight, as he had to deliberately put on weight to get up around 135 and heavier. When he hit his peak in 1937, most of his fights were over-the-weight featherweight fights, in which he usually weighed around 130.

I think Ray Robinson would've been at his best at 154. He sometimes had to struggle to make 147, and I believe he gained more power as he added weight; but up at 160, his power was sometimes offset by being up against naturally bigger men. I believe 154 would've combined the best of both worlds.

Lloyd Marshall is another one I suspect was sometimes weight drained at 160, but at 175, the size of a full fledged light-heavy was occassionally a bit too much (ie: Bivins, Billy Smith). I think 168 would've been ideal for him.

Other examples:

Charley Burley - 154
Rocky Graziano - 154
Jack Delaney - 168
Georges Carpentier - 168
Ceferino Garcia - 154
Joe Choynski - 168
Lionel Rose - 122 (maybe?)

And then of course, all the cruiserweight sized heavyweights - ie: Dempsey, Marciano, etc.

Leon Spinks might've been more successful if there was a cruiser division while he was still at his peak.


Any others?

[teeto]

Yeah they always said Robinson would have took great advantage of fighting at 154, Marciano at cruiser also, and Patterson, and Jimmy Wilde at straw-weight, they'd still need to make another one for him, thread of cotton weight anyone?

[Bill Butcher]

Robinson at 154 & Saddler at 130 sprang immediately to mind.

[teeto]

Robinson at 154 & Saddler at 130 sprang immediately to mind.
Saddler won the title at 130 though

[Jear]

200lb cruiser limit for both Spinks, Holyfield, came too late for Byrd too
190 for Patterson in particular due to him fighting consistently 200lb+ fighters. Marciano & Dempsey heavys were generally not much bigger than them if at all

[McGrain]

Robinson & Burley would have been a total monsters at 154. Terrifying.

Dick Tiger. Tiger struggled with 160 even as a young man and it was probably only his insane discipline and proffessionalism that kept him there for so long. I believe he eventually started to suffer for his tightness at the weight, though that is speculation.

He was a good LHW, as his record shows, but he was never going to be a great one because of his physical limitations. Perhaps it is a stretch to say that his best weight would have been 168, but it would have been nice for him to have had the in-between weight to fill out into.

[Xplosive]

Ray Robinson woulda been by FAR the best 154 pounder in history.

[McGrain]

Ray Robinson woulda been by FAR the best 154 pounder in history.

It's actually a frightening though.

[Russell]

Jose Napoles, mayhap?

[McGrain]

mayhap?

:lol:

[Russell]

:good

[frankwornank]

Angelo DeFendis was a lightheavy in the mid 1950's. His best weight was 167. What a puncher he was. The thing is, he was always fighting guys who weighed 175 or so. If there had been a super-middleweight division, he would have been champ.

[dpw417]

Robinson & Burley would have been a total monsters at 154. Terrifying.

Dick Tiger. Tiger struggled with 160 even as a young man and it was probably only his insane discipline and proffessionalism that kept him there for so long. I believe he eventually started to suffer for his tightness at the weight, though that is speculation.

He was a good LHW, as his record shows, but he was never going to be a great one because of his physical limitations. Perhaps it is a stretch to say that his best weight would have been 168, but it would have been nice for him to have had the in-between weight to fill out into.

Dick Tiger. Tiger struggled with 160 even as a young man and it was problably only his insane disipline and professionalism that kept him there for so long. I believe he eventually stated to suffer for his tightness at the weight, though that is speculation.

I agree wholeheartedly!!! Excellent point.

[Thread Stealer]

Maybe LaMotta at 168.

[WhataRock]

Rubin Carter - 154

Chris Finnegan - 168

Jimmy Wilde- Straw-light fly

Actually Griffith for that matter probably would have benefited from a super welter division, he seemed to hover just over the welter limit in most of his non-title fights during his peak..even though technically it did exist in some form then, he actually won a world title there.

I think Fighting Harada would have been damn near unstoppable if a 115 division had been around in his day.

[WhataRock]

Maybe LaMotta at 168.


Agreed.

[MRBILL]

Orlin Norris and Marvis Frazier.......... Heavy was too big and Cruiser was still 190 pounds.............. Norris and Frazier would've / could've been great at 195 to 200 pounds........
:yep:deal

MR.BILL:hat

[My2Sense]

Dick Tiger. Tiger struggled with 160 even as a young man and it was probably only his insane discipline and proffessionalism that kept him there for so long. I believe he eventually started to suffer for his tightness at the weight, though that is speculation.

He was a good LHW, as his record shows, but he was never going to be a great one because of his physical limitations. Perhaps it is a stretch to say that his best weight would have been 168, but it would have been nice for him to have had the in-between weight to fill out into.

Agreed 100%.

In his day, Tiger was known as "the strongest 168-pound fighter in the world."


Rubin Carter - 154



I believe jr. middleweight did tentatively begin in Carter's time, but there was no money or acclaim to be made there.

[WhataRock]

Agreed 100%.

In his day, Tiger was known as "the strongest 168-pound fighter in the world."




I believe jr. middleweight did tentatively begin in Carter's time, but there was no money or acclaim to be made there.


Yeah I think it started in 63...but as you said no one was really interested in it at the time.

[heehoo]

Jimmy Wilde - Strawweight

Jimmy Barry - Strawweight

[sweet_scientist]

Packey McFarland - Jnr welter

Tony Canzoneri - Jnr light

Rocky Marciano - Cruiser

Charley Burley - Jnr middle (arguably)

Ted Kid Lewis - Jnr welter

Holman Williams - Jnr middle (arguably)

Lloyd Marshall - Super middle

Mickey Walker - Jnr middle (arguably)

[GPater11093]

Robinson at 154 & Saddler at 130 sprang immediately to mind.

Saddler won the title at 130 though

beat me to it

[dmt]

How about the likes of Quarry and Ellis at cruiserweight?