Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

[Russell]

From my antique store boxing book, straight from Tunney's mouth.

Handsome, pompadoured and blue-eyed, and articulate Gentleman Jim brought an aura of respectability and dignity to the prize ring. At sixty-four, he was still slim, clear-skinned , alert and in good shape.

In 1925, when he was fifty nine, Corbett fought a three-round exhibition behind closed doors with Gene Tunney. Afterwards, Tunnet said, "He was brilliant. He still had bewildering speed. He mixed up his punches better then practially any fighter I've ever seen. Imagine, fifty-nine years old! It was the greatest demonstration I've ever seen in the ring. I learned plenty."

Tunney and Dempsey were both always extremely gracious and praising of other fighters.

Also of interest, Corbett felt Young Stribling was the best P4P fighter he had ever seen.

[mcvey]

From my antique store boxing book, straight from Tunney's mouth.

Handsome, pompadoured and blue-eyed, and articulate Gentleman Jim brought an aura of respectability and dignity to the prize ring. At sixty-four, he was still slim, clear-skinned , alert and in good shape.

In 1925, when he was fifty nine, Corbett fought a three-round exhibition behind closed doors with Gene Tunney. Afterwards, Tunnet said, "He was brilliant. He still had bewildering speed. He mixed up his punches better then practially any fighter I've ever seen. Imagine, fifty-nine years old! It was the greatest demonstration I've ever seen in the ring. I learned plenty."

Tunney and Dempsey were both always extremely gracious and praising of other fighters.

Also of interest, Corbett felt Young Stribling was the best P4P fighter he had ever seen.

Corbett wore long white trousers as he said his legs weren't what they used to be.

[Russell]

How would that help?

[Mendoza]

From my antique store boxing book, straight from Tunney's mouth.

Handsome, pompadoured and blue-eyed, and articulate Gentleman Jim brought an aura of respectability and dignity to the prize ring. At sixty-four, he was still slim, clear-skinned , alert and in good shape.

In 1925, when he was fifty nine, Corbett fought a three-round exhibition behind closed doors with Gene Tunney. Afterwards, Tunnet said, "He was brilliant. He still had bewildering speed. He mixed up his punches better then practially any fighter I've ever seen. Imagine, fifty-nine years old! It was the greatest demonstration I've ever seen in the ring. I learned plenty."

Tunney and Dempsey were both always extremely gracious and praising of other fighters.

Also of interest, Corbett felt Young Stribling was the best P4P fighter he had ever seen.

The sparring match exists on film. I have seen it. Corbett's in a sweater with dress shoes on, but you're right on the money. Corbett still had good reflexes, skills and speed in his 50's. Tunney was simply in awe of the old man. Corbett could feint high then duck low and in a flash deliver a straight shot to the body. This is a unique skill among heavyweights that I have not seen duplicated. Corbett also had the ability to read body laanguage. It seems he's ready to block a punch the moment the other guys decides to throw it.

Corbett can also be seen sparring in the W.W. I Bonds with Kid McCoy. The film us up close and clear. Corbett's quickness and feints here were very impressive. Corbett had to be in his 40's when it was filmed. You'd be hard press to find heavies who were that quick in their primes. Yet Corbett was in his 40's and 50's.

Both films are up close and clear. I would rate them as must sees.

[mcvey]

How would that help?
If you were a boxer ,I'd think you had taken too many punches to the head Russell.
It was sheer vanity,varicose veins etc:patsch

Wait until you are nearly 60 and see how quick you are to get your kit off then ,I dont think you will be doing much posing .:good

[Russell]

If you were a boxer ,I'd think you had taken too many punches to the head Russell.
It was sheer vanity,varicose veins etc:patsch

Wait until you are nearly 60 and see how quick you are to get your kit off then ,I dont think you will be doing much posing .:good

Oi', I'm neither 60 nor do I have Corbett's attitude so how in the hell can I be faulted for not knowing what you were talking about at first?

I thought you meant he didn't have legs as in his movement was deterioated and I was wondering how wearing pants would change that. :huh

[Russell]

The sparring match exists on film. I have seen it. Corbett's in a sweater with dress shoes on, but you're right on the money. Corbett still had good reflexes, skills and speed in his 50's. Tunney was simply in awe of the old man. Corbett could feint high then duck low and in a flash deliver a straight shot to the body. This is a unique skill among heavyweights that I have not seen duplicated. Corbett also had the ability to read body laanguage. It seems he's ready to block a punch the moment the other guys decides to throw it.

Corbett can also be seen sparring in the W.W. I Bonds with Kid McCoy. The film us up close and clear. Corbett's quickness and feints here were very impressive. Corbett had to be in his 40's when it was filmed. You'd be hard press to find heavies who were that quick in their primes. Yet Corbett was in his 40's and 50's.

Both films are up close and clear. I would rate them as must sees.

50's, more like near 60's. :good

I'm glad to know film of it exists though. I really wish more footage of Corbett existed, and on top of that he had fought more... He's a bit of an enigma like the original Jack Dempsey.

[Mendoza]

50's, more like near 60's. :good

I'm glad to know film of it exists though. I really wish more footage of Corbett existed, and on top of that he had fought more... He's a bit of an enigma like the original Jack Dempsey.

I don't think corbett is much of an enigma if you know where to read and look. There is more footage of Corbett. You can see several rounds of him vs Fitzsimmons, though the film is grainy and runs slow.

Corbett might be the fighter working the bag in the movie the Night They Raided Minsky's, which also has a clip from the Jeffries vs Shareky II fight. I'll have to see it again before a positive ID as the clip is only a few seconds long, but whomever that fighter was was on the money and quick.

By the way, Corbett offical record before losing to Fitzsimmons was 59-0-3! But you have to use news paper reports of fights and news paper decsions to as many of the matches were only 4 or 6 round affairs. Still 60+ fights without a loss is something only a boxing master could hope to do.

[klompton]

Its not really a sparring session, more like each one kind of showing off his moves and pet punches.

[mcvey]

Oi', I'm neither 60 nor do I have Corbett's attitude so how in the hell can I be faulted for not knowing what you were talking about at first?

I thought you meant he didn't have legs as in his movement was deterioated and I was wondering how wearing pants would change that. :huh

Youre right of course , didn't mean to be so terse.:oops:

When you get older you avoid mirrors if you can :good

[he grant]

Where is the sparring footage? I have never seen it anywhere ...

[Seamus]

I've seen stills from this. Corbett looks surprisingly big and powerful compared to Tunney. Also, Tunney does comment on Jim's great reflexes, parrying and swift feet. I sure wish Jim had fought more often during what should have been his prime. But I also don't like the prick, a nasty few episodes i have read about.

[Mendoza]

Where is the sparring footage? I have never seen it anywhere ...


You can buy Corbett vs McCoy from dealers. I recommend sweetfights.com. Be sure to watch it on a big screen, and you will pick up much more.

Corbett vs Tunney is rare. Most people who have it won't sell it unless they get something they want in a trade. However, there are other avenues to buy boxing dvd's, films or tapes. Sometimes you can get lucky on ebay.

[he grant]

Thank you.

[Ted Spoon]

Corbett kept himself in great knick after the ring, just like Carpentier would.

Jim, along with another veteran in Joe Choynski were two of the main members of Jeffries team when the latter was preparing to take on Jack Johnson.

Jim was a real splice of different styles and forgotten techniques. No wonder he made such an impression on a perfectionist like Tunney.

[flamengo]

I recently gave an original picture of a sparring moment between Corbett and Tunney to Mrs Rudkin to pass on to Alan Jnr.

How much of a spar was this??? In the pic I had, Corbett appears in long dress pants and a woolen top. Tunney appears more appropriately dressed for such an occassion. The picture was also taken outdoors.

[GPater11093]

You can buy Corbett vs McCoy from dealers. I recommend sweetfights.com. Be sure to watch it on a big screen, and you will pick up much more.

Corbett vs Tunney is rare. Most people who have it won't sell it unless they get something they want in a trade. However, there are other avenues to buy boxing dvd's, films or tapes. Sometimes you can get lucky on ebay.

have you got it mendoza?

I recently gave an original picture of a sparring moment between Corbett and Tunney to Mrs Rudkin to pass on to Alan Jnr.

How much of a spar was this??? In the pic I had, Corbett appears in long dress pants and a woolen top. Tunney appears more appropriately dressed for such an occassion. The picture was also taken outdoors.

is that when Mrs Rudkin went over to Oz. You forgot to tell me how it went

[Seamus]

Also, I believe this occurred on a rooftop in New York City.

[Mendoza]

GPater says: Have you got it mendoza?

I own Corbett vs McCoy sparring, and have seen Corbett vs Tunney.

Corbett vs. Mccoy sparring is not too hard to find. Corbett vs. Tunney is.

[GPater11093]

how did you see it

[Mendoza]

how did you see it

Check your private message box.

[GPater11093]

chhers M

[mcvey]

chhers M

What a lot of cloak and dagger bullshit,as in" I'm an archivist and historian".:lol:
The clips from this spar are readily available,there is a 3 min segment on the following website.

Orphan Film Symposium.blogspot.com.
Included are renactments of Firpo staggering Dempsey , in slow mo by Corbett and Tunney.
At the end of the clip Dempsey is shown sparring too .
This was taken for a series called on Sportlight Film.This episode is entitled " On Guard".I have seen this many times and also the original full length version ,which goes on for around 9 mins as I recall.

Its hardly Greb versus Tunney,no need for espionage:patsch

PS. Check your pm but don't tell anyone. No dont, there's f**k all there :lol:

[Seamus]

What a lot of cloak and dagger bullshit,as in" I'm an archivist and historian".:lol:
The clips from this spar are readily available,there is a 3 min segment on the following website.

Orphan Film Symposium.blogspot.com.
Included are renactments of Firpo staggering Dempsey , in slow mo by Corbett and Tunney.
At the end of the clip Dempsey is shown sparring too .
This was taken for a series called on Sportlight Film.This episode is entitled " On Guard".I have seen this many times and also the original full length version ,which goes on for around 9 mins as I recall.

Its hardly Greb versus Tunney,no need for espionage:patsch

PS. Check your pm but don't tell anyone. No dont, there's f**k all there :lol:

OK, I'm stupid. Where do you find that vid on that site?

[Russell]

What a lot of cloak and dagger bullshit,as in" I'm an archivist and historian".:lol:
The clips from this spar are readily available,there is a 3 min segment on the following website.

Orphan Film Symposium.blogspot.com.
Included are renactments of Firpo staggering Dempsey , in slow mo by Corbett and Tunney.
At the end of the clip Dempsey is shown sparring too .
This was taken for a series called on Sportlight Film.This episode is entitled " On Guard".I have seen this many times and also the original full length version ,which goes on for around 9 mins as I recall.

Its hardly Greb versus Tunney,no need for espionage:patsch

PS. Check your pm but don't tell anyone. No dont, there's f**k all there :lol:

Love it. :lol:

How I feel as well. As if we all need to be a bunch of greedy fucks. :huh

[mcvey]

OK, I'm stupid. Where do you find that vid on that site?
You are far from stupid ,though sometimes I think you beleive the rest of us are.:D
Go to google type in Tunney Corbett sparring .
You will get two or three lines of crap which is us on here ,the first Orphan Symposium that comes up click on it, it will give you frames of the spar ,scroll down to near the end where it says play video click on it and away you go:good

[Russell]

I love you McVey. You're my long distance grandpa! :hey:good:lol:

[mcvey]

I love you McVey. You're my long distance grandpa! :hey:good:lol:

In that case ,make sure your in by 10 pm:yep

[Russell]

Come on grand-dad, you know that's not fair. :|:|:|

[GPater11093]

What a lot of cloak and dagger bullshit,as in" I'm an archivist and historian".:lol:
The clips from this spar are readily available,there is a 3 min segment on the following website.

Orphan Film Symposium.blogspot.com.
Included are renactments of Firpo staggering Dempsey , in slow mo by Corbett and Tunney.
At the end of the clip Dempsey is shown sparring too .
This was taken for a series called on Sportlight Film.This episode is entitled " On Guard".I have seen this many times and also the original full length version ,which goes on for around 9 mins as I recall.

Its hardly Greb versus Tunney,no need for espionage:patsch

PS. Check your pm but don't tell anyone. No dont, there's f**k all there :lol:

im not trying to be cloack and dagger. Mendoza told me in good faith to keep in quiet and i am a man of my word.

I want every fight film to be released to everyone whats the point of being greedy and not havin nobody to talk about it with.

Also cheers for the link.

Love it. :lol:

How I feel as well. As if we all need to be a bunch of greedy fucks. :huh

exactly

You are far from stupid ,though sometimes I think you beleive the rest of us are.:D
Go to google type in Tunney Corbett sparring .
You will get two or three lines of crap which is us on here ,the first Orphan Symposium that comes up click on it, it will give you frames of the spar ,scroll down to near the end where it says play video click on it and away you go:good

thanks

I love you McVey. You're my long distance grandpa! :hey:good:lol:

lol

the banter you to have the family reunion would be hilarious

In that case ,make sure your in by 10 pm:yep

Come on grand-dad, you know that's not fair. :|:|:|

Russel he aint a good Grandad. Grandparents are real soft and let you do what you want and let you eat sweets. We all know that

[Russell]

He's obviously the worst grandfather ever. If there was a family reunion he'd probably take me out back and have a "special talk" with me if you know what I mean. :|:scaredas::-(

[GPater11093]

:rofl :rofl

poor McVey he cant be that bad.......

[mcvey]

im not trying to be cloack and dagger. Mendoza told me in good faith to keep in quiet and i am a man of my word.

I want every fight film to be released to everyone whats the point of being greedy and not havin nobody to talk about it with.

Also cheers for the link.



exactly



thanks



lol

the banter you to have the family reunion would be hilarious





Russel he aint a good Grandad. Grandparents are real soft and let you do what you want and let you eat sweets. We all know that

I wasnt referring to you when I spoke of "Cloak and Dagger ",you know who I meant.
And so does he, some people need to feel important,the rest of us are happy being one of the crowd.
How's the boxing going?

[HomicideHenry]

This exists on film? I doubt it!

[Arka]

This exists on film? I doubt it!
:roll:

[TheGreatA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[he grant]

GreatA, Amazing find ! Great job !

[Arka]

GreatA, you are GREAT. Amazing find ! Can't thank you enough !!!
:roll:

[Seamus]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Jim Corbett got muthafuckin skilz...

Holy shit. That roll of the fists into a jab you can see coming from another zipcode but those feints, the uppercut and right to the jaw are the shit. Makes me ponder what would become of a Corbett-Jack Johnson match-up.

[mr. magoo]

Great stuff. Thanks Russell, and everyone else..

[mcvey]

Jim Corbett got muthafuckin skilz...

Holy shit. That roll of the fists into a jab you can see coming from another zipcode but those feints, the uppercut and right to the jaw are the shit. Makes me ponder what would become of a Corbett-Jack Johnson match-up.

Corbett v Johnson sparring is out there,I have seen it ,but if I told you where to find it I would have to kill you.:-(
ps .You don't have pm.

[mcvey]

I don't think corbett is much of an enigma if you know where to read and look. There is more footage of Corbett. You can see several rounds of him vs Fitzsimmons, though the film is grainy and runs slow.

Corbett might be the fighter working the bag in the movie the Night They Raided Minsky's, which also has a clip from the Jeffries vs Shareky II fight. I'll have to see it again before a positive ID as the clip is only a few seconds long, but whomever that fighter was was on the money and quick.

By the way, Corbett offical record before losing to Fitzsimmons was 59-0-3! But you have to use news paper reports of fights and news paper decsions to as many of the matches were only 4 or 6 round affairs. Still 60+ fights without a loss is something only a boxing master could hope to do.

Can you please post the names of the 59 opponents of Corbett . I have located around 35,have you concrete proof, as in these names?
Are you guessing? Or including exhibitions?

[Mendoza]

He's obviously the worst grandfather ever. If there was a family reunion he'd probably take me out back and have a "special talk" with me if you know what I mean. :|:scaredas::-(

I think Gramps came up with a good find here. Now if he could only let his closest family members see Greb vs Walker.

[Mendoza]

Can you please post the names of the 59 opponents of Corbett . I have located around 35,have you concrete proof, as in these names?
Are you guessing? Or including exhibitions?

Many of the records of the old timers are incomplete. This is especially true of fighters who fought in the 1800's.

Below is a list of three combined reported sources for Corbett's ring record. Based on the combined lists Corbett had 64 fights!

Take note, Corbett was 59-0-3 at one point before losing to Bob Fitzsimmons! Only a true boxing master could achieve such a record.

** the 59-0-3 record assumes the W vs Peter Jackson as listed is really a draw. Otherwise its 60-0-2** Be sure to read the key at the bottom of the page.

Many W's are really Ko wins for Corbett.


Appendix 1
FOR THE RECORD: The following is the complete list of bouts for James J. Corbett and Charles Mitchell according to the Ocala (Fla.) Evening Star of Feb. 2, 1894. Additional results from the Ring Record Book and Boxing's Top 100 haw been included on this list. In some cases dates, first names and other information is not available.

JAMES J. CORBETT:
San Francisco, Daw Eiseman, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Jim Hare, four rounds, W
San Francisco, Ed Siossen, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Jim McCarty, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Joe Chosinski, one round, W, (a)
San Francisco, Bob McCord, one round, W
San Francisco, Billy Welch, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, George Maxwell, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Tom Pollard, four rounds, W
San Francisco , John Dwyer, one round, W
San Francisco, Ed Rose, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, L.R. Fulda, four rounds, W
San Francisco, Jack Burke, eight rounds, draw, (8-27-88 )
San Francisco, Mike Brennan, eight rounds, W
San Francisco, Con Riordan, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Captain James H. Daley (also Daily), 4 rounds, W
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, four rounds, W, (5-30-89) (a)
Salt Lake City, Frank Smith, sewn rounds, W
Salt Lake City, Duncan McDonald, eight rounds, W , (b)
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, three rounds (some sources say four), W, (7-15-89) San Francisco, Martin Costello, four rounds, W
San Francisco, George Atkinson, three rounds, W
San Francisco, Prof. William Miller, six rounds, W
San Francisco, Larry SUlliwn, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Frank Glowr, four rounds, W, (6-30-88 (c)
San Francisco, John Donaldson, eight rounds, W
Portland, Ore., Daw Campbell, 10 rounds, W, (7-29-89) (d)
San Francisco, Joe Choyinski, 27 rounds, W, (6-5-89) (a)
New Orleans, Jake Kilrain, six rounds, W, (2-18-90)
Brooklyn, Dominic McCaffery, four rounds, W, (4-14-90)
San Francisco, Peter Jackson, 61 rounds, W, (5-2-91) (e)
Milwaukee, Ed Kinney, four rounds, W, (10-8-91)
Philadelphia, Matt Donovan, one round, W, (3-20-89) (f)
New Jersey, Peter Courtney, six rounds, W, (9-7-94)
Philadelphia, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95) (g)
Philadelphia, Bubbles Davis, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Bob Caffrey, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Sailor Brown, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Brady, three rounds, W
Philadelphia, Mike Moneghan, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Godfrey, three rounds, W


Philadelphia, Jack Haughey, one rounds, W
Philadelphia, Jack Langdon, two rounds, W
Philadelphia, Denny Kelleher, four rounds, W
Philadelphia, Joe Wilson, three rounds, W
Madison Square Garden, William Speflings, one round, W, (h) Madison Square Garden, Bob Goffey, one round, W
Madison Square Garden, Joe Lannon, th.-ee rounds, W, (i) Hartford, John McMahan, two rounds, W
Albany, Jack McDonald, one rounds, W
Columbus, Jim Hughes, two rounds, W
Butte, Mont. , Jack Grace, two rounds, W
San Francisco, Mike Olson, one round, W
Tucson, Mike Sullivan, two rounds, W
EI Paso , Jack Donnelly, two rounds, W
New Orleans, John L. Sullivan, 21 rounds, W, (9-7-92) Jacksonville, Charlie Mitchell, three rounds, W, (1-25-94)
New Orleans, John McVey, three rounds, W, (1-4-95)
San Francisco, Tom Sharkey, four rounds, draw (6-24-96) (j) Carson City, Nev., Bob Fitzsimmons, 14 rounds, L, (3-17-97)
New York, Tom Sharkey, 9 rounds, L (foul), (11-22-98
Coney Island, Jim Jeffries, 23 rounds, L, (5-11-1900)
New York, Kid McCoy, five rounds, W, (8-30-1900)
San Francisco, Jim Jeffries, 10 rounds, L, (8-14-03)





KEY CORBETT NOTES:
(a) correct spelling is Joe ChoYnSki, first fight is also called a no decision by some sources; 5­30-89, stopped by police in the fourth round; 6-5-89, stopped ChOYnski in the 27th, and 7­15-89, won four-round bout according to 100 Greatest Boxers of All Time by Bert Sugar.
(b) also called a draw by some sources.
(c) also called a draw by some sources.
(d) called a draw after 10 rounds because Corbett failed to score a knockout as agreed.
(e) called a no contest by referee Hiram Cook, no punches were thrown in the 61st round, fight took four hours and 10 minutes, also (and more reasonably) called a draw by some sources .
(f) also listed as Mike Donovan and called a sparring session or exhibition by some sources. (g) site also listed as New Orleans, McVey listed as Jim and John by different sources.
(h) result is similar to one reported for 2-16-92, a one-round victory o\ler one Bill Spilling in Rochester.
(i) also called a no decision by some sources
(j) also has 1-round KO victory o\ler Emest Roeber on 1-3-97, no site, listed as an exhibition.

[he grant]

McVey, I missed your info on the clip but also big thanks for sharing the info !

Arka, agreed and modified ...

[flamengo]

Great to see film of the two old men. As for Corbetts upercut???? Seamus.. Why are you impressed by that??? Seriously??

[GPater11093]

I wasnt referring to you when I spoke of "Cloak and Dagger ",you know who I meant.
And so does he, some people need to feel important,the rest of us are happy being one of the crowd.
How's the boxing going?

boxings going good. im using my fitness more and working on my aggresion especially body shots. Stopped afew adults in the gym with my body shots but im taking too many shots now i need to find a balance. My trianers working on alot of movement in a circle with just half a step in and out with long shots.

Corbett v Johnson sparring is out there,I have seen it ,but if I told you where to find it I would have to kill you.:-(
ps .You don't have pm.

:rofl:rofl

I think Gramps came up with a good find here. Now if he could only let his closest family members see Greb vs Walker.

has Russel seen it?

[mcvey]

McVey, I missed your info on the clip but also big thanks for sharing the info !

Arka, agreed and modified ...

You are welcome ,share and share alike,well, except for the Greb Walker fight.
Oh, and did I mention I was in the Silver Slipper Night Club ,after the Greb fight ,and later on, witnessed the two of them going at it on the street?
You probably wouldn't be interested as the pictures I took aren't very clear.:-(

[spittle8]

Maybe I'm just an ignorant cuss but I didn't find that video impressive. Corbett's punching was bizarre, and he hands were not protecting his face. He looked open to some counter's for sure.

Can someone please explain how that footage showed a skillful man? Not being a dick, I'm quite serious.

[Arka]

I don't know how much you you should read into this,but ,according to boxrec, Corbett has one of the worst KO percentages for a great heavyweight at 25 %.

Of course this is just a demonstration,but he doesn't seem to be getting his body into each punch.

Could it be that he developed his light punching technique as a bareknuckle boxer to save his hands in a long contest?

It was a beautiful video,anyway.... (sorry for my rude sarcasm he grant :D)

[SuzieQ49]

I dont know what Mendoza is talking about that that bullcrap. Boxrec a reliable source who mendoza uses for his info usually, lists corbett as 16-4 proffessional record.

[Russell]

I dont know what Mendoza is talking about that that bullcrap. Boxrec a reliable source who mendoza uses for his info usually, lists corbett as 16-4 proffessional record.

:tired:tired:tired

[Boilermaker]

Maybe I'm just an ignorant cuss but I didn't find that video impressive. Corbett's punching was bizarre, and he hands were not protecting his face. He looked open to some counter's for sure.

Can someone please explain how that footage showed a skillful man? Not being a dick, I'm quite serious.

I have to be honest, I too found his technique one of the strangest i have ever seen. Perhaps it was old age? Of just because they were not serious. He almost seemed to wrist punch, for want of a better word, and his straight back seems to suggest little body was put behind his weight. On a positive, i though he actually looked to know how to clinch and to me, i just got the feeling that he could fight in a clinch (never thought this of him before). I think i will need to watch Corbett Fitz to reevaluate it, given this clearer video. This is in total contrast to the John L clip i have seen where it seems obvious John L punches in a modern way.

[spittle8]

I have to be honest, I too found his technique one of the strangest i have ever seen. Perhaps it was old age? Of just because they were not serious. He almost seemed to wrist punch, for want of a better word, and his straight back seems to suggest little body was put behind his weight. On a positive, i though he actually looked to know how to clinch and to me, i just got the feeling that he could fight in a clinch (never thought this of him before). I think i will need to watch Corbett Fitz to reevaluate it, given this clearer video. This is in total contrast to the John L clip i have seen where it seems obvious John L punches in a modern way.
A John L. clip? WHERE WHERE WHERE?????

Yeah, Corbett did his thing so I trust he could do SOMETHING. As far as I'm concerned, history vindicates Sullivan if ONLY being a barroom brawler fucking fucking Hell, in which case it would be tremendously difficult to survive him as Corbett did. So that alone tells me Corbett had something going on. However, the technique in this video was.... Victorian. It looked like some contrived nonsense, but hey whatever. Tunney apparently really dug Corbett and that vindicates him as to me Tunney was an incredible boxer and he knows better than I to judge such things.

[Mendoza]

I dont know what Mendoza is talking about that that bullcrap. Boxrec a reliable source who mendoza uses for his info usually, lists corbett as 16-4 proffessional record.

It is estimated that Box rec has about 10% of all the fights out there. The record I posted on Corbett comes from multiple news paper reports. Poster Appolack found a few new non box rec matches as well.

Box rec just doesn't have the time to re-search 1000's of fighters. However the select few editors there will add a fight every now and then.

[Boilermaker]

A John L. clip? WHERE WHERE WHERE?????

Yeah, Corbett did his thing so I trust he could do SOMETHING. As far as I'm concerned, history vindicates Sullivan if ONLY being a barroom brawler fucking fucking Hell, in which case it would be tremendously difficult to survive him as Corbett did. So that alone tells me Corbett had something going on. However, the technique in this video was.... Victorian. It looked like some contrived nonsense, but hey whatever. Tunney apparently really dug Corbett and that vindicates him as to me Tunney was an incredible boxer and he knows better than I to judge such things.

It is on you tube, i am fairly sure. He is only playing around and it is only a couple of seconds and he is very old.

[mcvey]

It is on you tube, i am fairly sure. He is only playing around and it is only a couple of seconds and he is very old.

Sullivan was dead at 57, Larry Holmes had his last fight beating Butter Bean at the age of 52.I'm 60,how different are the perceptions of age through the years.Sullivan does indeed look like an very old man, but he wasn't.The clip featuring John L was taken at Jeffries training camp for his ill fated comeback against Johnson.
Sullivan and Corbett had not spoken for years ,but in the interests of White solidarity ,patched things up and presented a united front against Johnson.

[SuzieQ49]

Mendoza,

Even CyberboxingZone with the panel of IBRO historians does not agree with your assessment corbett was 59-0. In fact They have corbett listed as fighting mostly exhibitions that you probably confuse for pro fights.

[Mendoza]

Mendoza,

Even CyberboxingZone with the panel of IBRO historians does not agree with your assessment corbett was 59-0. In fact They have corbett listed as fighting mostly exhibitions that you probably confuse for pro fights.

I am going on news paper reports, the chief one being the Ocala newspaper who had quite a bit on Corbett leading up to his title match with Mitchell. Whether they were news paper decisions or not is debatable, hence I said Corbett's reported ring record before losing to Fitzsimmons was 59-0-3.

[SuzieQ49]

If you have HARD evidence that corbetts record was indeed 59-0 then please send it in to boxrec so they can change it. I have sent numerous newspaper articles about 40s-50s heavyweights to boxrec, in which they have changed a certain boxers height/weight and even added a fight or two on. If you have the evidence, they will grant it.

[Mendoza]

Maybe I'm just an ignorant cuss but I didn't find that video impressive. Corbett's punching was bizarre, and he hands were not protecting his face. He looked open to some counter's for sure.

Can someone please explain how that footage showed a skillful man? Not being a dick, I'm quite serious.

I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study

[spittle8]

I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study
Interesting, thanks for sharing. It doesn't look unsophisticated, just different. Any relation between Oriental striking arts and old boxing are worth noting.

[janitor]

I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study

The emerging picture seems to be that Corbett had a highly unorthodox and probably unpredictable style.

I think it incorporated a fair few of his own aditions some of which were followed up by later fighters and some of which were not.

If you put him in with a contemporary fighter I dont know exactly what would happen but they would see a few things coming at them that they had not seen before.

[janitor]

Mendoza,

Even CyberboxingZone with the panel of IBRO historians does not agree with your assessment corbett was 59-0. In fact They have corbett listed as fighting mostly exhibitions that you probably confuse for pro fights.

To be fair to Mendoza a lot of fights of that era were billed as exhibitions for legal reasons. This makes it verry hard to establish exactly what Corbetts true record was.

[Arka]

I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study


From Edmund Price's Manual from 1867
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Vertical Punch

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Uppercut
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In Dempsey's Championship Fighting the author discusses the vertical punch and the treatment of the upppercut here seems totally modern.
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[Seamus]

Corbett v Johnson sparring is out there,I have seen it ,but if I told you where to find it I would have to kill you.:-(
ps .You don't have pm.

Yes, I do.

please use it, friend.

[HomicideHenry]

His style was tricky, bizarre, almost slight of hand. He threw what was known as a cork screw punch quite often in that demonstration/sparring session. Looks strange and uneducated at times, sloppy even, but effective. Its hard for me to believe when looking at some of these films, that the guys were so great as their records show---but then again it was a different time, and people picked shots, were methodical about it, than they are now, where punches are wasted for no reason.

[mcvey]

To be fair to Mendoza a lot of fights of that era were billed as exhibitions for legal reasons. This makes it verry hard to establish exactly what Corbetts true record was.

So in the absence of hard truth what should we do?
Go with what we are sure of ?
Or go with what may have happened?

[mcvey]

Yes, I do.

please use it, friend.

If I had it you would have it too:good
ps I read somewhere that Johnson sparring with Firpo was filmed.

[GPater11093]

mcvey how did johnons sparring with Firpo go

[mcvey]

mcvey how did johnons sparring with Firpo go

Well,according to that shrinking violet Johnson ,Firpo was totally outclassed,in actual fact he may have been ,because Firpo for all his strength and power ,was woefully lacking in the fundamentals.
You might have shown him a few moves:good

[GPater11093]

mcvey that aint saying much. Firpo aint exactly a syilist

[janitor]

So in the absence of hard truth what should we do?
Go with what we are sure of ?
Or go with what may have happened?

Acepting that we dont know would be a good start.

A lot of John L Sullivan's "exhibitions" have been changed to fights in the light of research by Adam Pollack and others.

[janitor]

Well,according to that shrinking violet Johnson ,Firpo was totally outclassed,in actual fact he may have been ,because Firpo for all his strength and power ,was woefully lacking in the fundamentals.
You might have shown him a few moves:good

It was not just Johnson who said it other sources have coroborated it.

It seems that Johnson did embaras Firpo in sparring.

[Minotauro]

Good read a lot of interesting posts.

[mcvey]

It was not just Johnson who said it other sources have coroborated it.

It seems that Johnson did embaras Firpo in sparring.
Well ,I'm glad it was you who said it and not me other wise a certain poster would be on my case!
ps ,Did you know that a young Harry Wills was briefly a sparring partner for Johnson?
Johnson said he had to let Wills go because he wasnt up to it.
Which may have meant he was still very green ,or that Johnson in later years was still unwilling to give credit to another Black fighter, he was allways disparaging of Wills.
The only black fighter Ive seen him praise was Mcvey,and I think that was genuine, becuase he paid ,all the expenses for Sam's funeral.

[janitor]

[quote=mcvey;4319776]
ps ,Did you know that a young Harry Wills was briefly a sparring partner for Johnson?
Johnson said he had to let Wills go because he wasnt up to it.
Which may have meant he was still very green ,or that Johnson in later years was still unwilling to give credit to another Black fighter, he was allways disparaging of Wills.


I know a bit about it.

From what I gather Johnson Wills was all but signed after Johnson got out of prison but the state athletic comision refused to sanction it due to Johnsons criminal record.

This fight was Johnsons one chance at getting back into the top league and it was taken away from him.

He might have been bitter about that.


The only black fighter Ive seen him praise was Mcvey,and I think that was genuine, becuase he paid ,all the expenses for Sam's funeral.


Johnson was fond of McVea and vice versa. They were often photographed together in evening dress. After Willard beat Johnson McVea offered to fight him for nothing.

Johnson praised Langford but only to selected audiences.

He spoke verry highly of Barbados Joe Walcott and they were close friends. When Johnson was a hobo Walcott took him on as a sparring partner and treated him well.

[cross_trainer]

Jim Corbett got muthafuckin skilz...

Holy shit. That roll of the fists into a jab you can see coming from another zipcode but those feints, the uppercut and right to the jaw are the shit. Makes me ponder what would become of a Corbett-Jack Johnson match-up.

Pardon the thread necromancy, but I thought this might be useful information. The "roll of the fists into the jab that you can see coming from another zipcode" is probably the consequence of the way boxers in Corbett's day held their guard. Rather than the fairly stationary guard you see today, they cycled their hands forward and backward (though not passing each other, according to most of the manuals), so the "pull back" part of the movement would just be a natural partof the hand cycling.

Sullivan's doing it here:

tIfcYJpUig0

[OLD FOGEY]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. It doesn't look unsophisticated, just different. Any relation between Oriental striking arts and old boxing are worth noting.

I used to live in San Francisco and the Olympic Boxing Club in which Corbett trained is only two or three blocks from Chinatown. Interesting.