Is Calzaghe the next Prince?

[KO Boxing]

Okay, before I even start, this is a stupid post. But there's been so many stupid posts around here lately, I'm just under the impression it's a free-for-all. And being that I have a bitter (yet still, friendly) rival with any and everyone British, here I go:

The Prince was a prime example of an over-rated British fighter who had a built up resume... who was exposed by the first real good fighter he faced...

And his position in history has forever been tainted as a result (thank God... Otherwise we'd be hearing Naz KO's Pep and Armstrong et al)...

Will Calzaghe become the next victim? Whether or not Kessler is his Marco Antonio Barrera...



In the end it doesn't really matter, but history ALREADY has a super middleweight paper champion who unified the belts and defended the title 21 times against the likes of Brewer, Mitchell and Tocker Pudwill... In Sven Ottke...

Neither could hold James Toney's jockstrap, let alone Roy Jones... Let alone be THOUGHT of as one of the greatest super middleweights in the world.

So, the question is, being that Calzaghe has a nearly non-existent resume, would a single loss (ala Naz) against a good fighter completely eradicate his career (maybe completely eradicate is a bit far, but you get it)?

:lol: Discuss.

[Toopretty]

UH oh...you done did it....the pro calzaghe/every other boxer is overrated clan is going to get ya...They are coming..I will tell you how they will respond. First they will of course dispute the fact that Calzaghe has beaten a lot of top level fighters such as Bika/Lacy/Manfredo sauce and all the other british fighters that were good(we just didnt know about them)..lol 2. They will dispute fantasy match ups...like Calzaghe beats a prime toney etc etc at 168. Though he was fighting around that time and never mixed it up with the real fighters. 3. They are just going to bring up Taylor and that he is in fact a NAZ or below him. And Zakman would say that he has fought those soft punching middleweights to hide his glass jaw...As you know if it is not Iron then he is a garbage fighter..that about sums it up....

[KO Boxing]

UH oh...you done did it....
That was the point, mate. :good

[Amsterdam]

You all amuse me with your ignorance.

[DanePugilist]

1) Losing to prime MAB is no shame.
2) JC-primer RJJ would probably be a life and death situation. For me its a toss-up. Toney would be killed.
3) Joe Calzaghe has been too overlooked for someone this good. Unfortunately it required a sound beating of an US boxer to make a little buzz.
4) Joe Calzaghe is an elite fighter, who by skill alone would be top 3 p4p.
5) Kessler will beat him in the best match of the last decade. I hope you will recognize this, and watch it.
6) Even if Joe loses, he will still be great, and will still beat anyone else from 160-175.
7) Kessler is just that good.

Hope it helps... You are now wiser.

[Toopretty]

1) Losing to prime MAB is no shame.
2) JC-primer RJJ would probably be a life and death situation. For me its a toss-up. Toney would be killed.:shock::patsch:rofl:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut:nut
3) Joe Calzaghe has been too overlooked for someone this good. Unfortunately it required a sound beating of an US boxer to make a little buzz.
4) Joe Calzaghe is an elite fighter, who by skill alone would be top 3 p4p.
5) Kessler will beat him in the best match of the last decade. I hope you will recognize this, and watch it.
6) Even if Joe loses, he will still be great, and will still beat anyone else from 160-175.
7) Kessler is just that good.

Hope it helps... You are now wiser.

Like i said.... they responded the way..I said..wow..:nut:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Toopretty]

James Toney killed. The James Toney that went 12 with Roy..knocked out Nunn..WOW..these guys are a disgrace to all that is holy in boxing..James Toney...I guy that has never been stopped..Killed by calzaghe..WOW....THESE MOTHERFUCKERS NEED TO BE SHOT.

[la-califa]

Calzahge is a very good fighter. But he will start having to meet the elite fighters around. Kessler is a good start. Before that, the best was Lacey? C'Mon where has he been his whole career? If he defeats the best competition around then his legacy will be secured. He has the tools to do so. But he has to go out & do it.

[Napoleon]

Okay, before I even start, this is a stupid post. But there's been so many stupid posts around here lately, I'm just under the impression it's a free-for-all. And being that I have a bitter (yet still, friendly) rival with any and everyone British, here I go:

The Prince was a prime example of an over-rated British fighter who had a built up resume... who was exposed by the first real good fighter he faced...

And his position in history has forever been tainted as a result (thank God... Otherwise we'd be hearing Naz KO's Pep and Armstrong et al)...

Will Calzaghe become the next victim? Whether or not Kessler is his Marco Antonio Barrera...



In the end it doesn't really matter, but history ALREADY has a super middleweight paper champion who unified the belts and defended the title 21 times against the likes of Brewer, Mitchell and Tocker Pudwill... In Sven Ottke...

Neither could hold James Toney's jockstrap, let alone Roy Jones... Let alone be THOUGHT of as one of the greatest super middleweights in the world.

So, the question is, being that Calzaghe has a nearly non-existent resume, would a single loss (ala Naz) against a good fighter completely eradicate his career (maybe completely eradicate is a bit far, but you get it)?

:lol: Discuss.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KO Boxing]

1) Losing to prime MAB is no shame.
2) JC-primer RJJ would probably be a life and death situation. For me its a toss-up. Toney would be killed.
3) Joe Calzaghe has been too overlooked for someone this good. Unfortunately it required a sound beating of an US boxer to make a little buzz.
4) Joe Calzaghe is an elite fighter, who by skill alone would be top 3 p4p.
5) Kessler will beat him in the best match of the last decade. I hope you will recognize this, and watch it.
6) Even if Joe loses, he will still be great, and will still beat anyone else from 160-175.
7) Kessler is just that good.

Hope it helps... You are now wiser.
While maybe some of what you said could be potentially true, that wouldn't be an attempt at making your fellow countrymen look superior, now would it?

Jones dominates Calzaghe at 168 prime for prime. Imbed that into your brain, and at least one of us will be wiser.

[Toopretty]

You all amuse me with your ignorance.

Seems like everybody is not on your side of the stupid fence....You know...Dane got you beat though..He is now the most idiotic retard ever. A fucking Kessler and Calzaghe..WOW....only in your minds..only in your fucking minds...They are fighting for the best at 168 not the fucking best in boxing....:nut:nut:nut:nut That is a fucking regular championship fight like any other...aint shit more special then what is going on in any other division...ECCENTRIC is being generous....

[Amsterdam]

Seems like everybody is not on your side of the stupid fence....You know...Dane got you beat though..He is now the most idiotic retard ever. A fucking Kessler and Calzaghe..WOW....only in your minds..only in your fucking minds...They are fighting for the best at 168 not the fucking best in boxing....:nut:nut:nut:nut That is a fucking regular championship fight like any other...aint shit more special then what is going on in any other division...ECCENTRIC is being generous....

It's not a regular championship, it's a contest between two of boxings elite in terms of skill level. Kessler is masterful at every aspect of his style, as is Calzaghe, Kessler is prime and Calzaghe is still game, this is for the first undisputed SMW championship in the divisions history.

Normal championship, amusing as I said.

I'd bet you feel that Pavlik has a chance against Kessler, that's the hilarious part, especially when Kessler won every round against his last opponent, who is superior to Pavlik.

[DanePugilist]

James Toney killed. The James Toney that went 12 with Roy..knocked out Nunn..WOW..these guys are a disgrace to all that is holy in boxing..James Toney...I guy that has never been stopped..Killed by calzaghe..WOW....THESE MOTHERFUCKERS NEED TO BE SHOT.Its hard to accept facts, when the veil of deception have been pulled over your deluded eyes for years.

Your last statement just shows that you still live with your mamma. Goto the sandbox, where you can dig more holes for yourself.

[Toopretty]

It's not a regular championship, it's a contest between two of boxings elite in terms of skill level. Kessler is masterful at every aspect of his style, as is Calzaghe, Kessler is prime and Calzaghe is still game, this is for the first undisputed SMW championship in the divisions history.

Normal championship, amusing as I said.

:nut:nut:nut:nut:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:nut:nut:nut Like I said..a REGULAR fucking championship fight. Between two regular champions.. one old..one new..:think:yep:yep

[KO Boxing]

Kessler and Calzaghe is one of the best fights out there in boxing today. No doubt! And the winner a clear p4p top tenner, although some would argue Kessler doesn't belong if he wins (although they'd be arguing wrong).

I'll still stand by my first post though. :yep

[Toopretty]

Its hard to accept facts, when the veil of deception have been pulled over your deluded eyes for years.

Your last statement just shows that you still live with your mamma. Goto the sandbox, where you can dig more holes for yourself.

You dumb piece of shit..You can take James Toney cut out half of his fucking fights...The ones he won..and he has accomplished more then Calzaghe has or will ever have..James Toney would not be beaten by no damned calzaghe and no way on earth would he ever be put down out in any kind of way. :nut:nut:nut:-(:-(:-(

Seems like your dumb ass is the one living in LALA land..If you fucking cunts disrespect another fucking ATG hall of fame fighters that have mixed it up with other ATG fighters and bring up some god damned Calzaghe and fucking Kessler...FUCK YOU>>>>:deal:rofl:rofl:rofl:lol::lol::lol: COMEDY>>>

[DanePugilist]

While maybe some of what you said could be potentially true, that wouldn't be an attempt at making your fellow countrymen look superior, now would it?

Jones dominates Calzaghe at 168 prime for prime. Imbed that into your brain, and at least one of us will be wiser.Or it could just be my take on the matter. I don't need to build up either. Fans with eyes in the head can see they are elites. If you can't well, then you will know later.

It's your take that RJJ will dominate Calzaghe. However, unlike me you seem to undervalue Calzaghes abilities. I'll let you know that I have been a fan of RJJ for many years, and still support him unlike so many other bandwagoneers we have here on the forum.

[Toopretty]

Or it could just be my take on the matter. I don't need to build up either. Fans with eyes in the head can see they are elites. If you can't well, then you will know later.

It's your take that RJJ will dominate Calzaghe. However, unlike me you seem to undervalue Calzaghes abilities. I'll let you know that I have been a fan of RJJ for many years, and still support him unlike so many other bandwagoneers we have here on the forum.

You are not elite for not beating anybody of note that is even close to being elite..This is boxing bitch..this is not fantasy football or basketball...You have to be in great fights against champions of high regard...Neither fighter mentioned as done this....EVER....

[Amsterdam]

You dumb piece of shit..You can take James Toney cut out half of his fucking fights...The ones he won..and he has accomplished more then Calzaghe has or will ever have..James Toney would not be beaten by no damned calzaghe and no way on earth would he ever be put down out in any kind of way. :nut:nut:nut:-(:-(:-(

Seems like your dumb ass is the one living in LALA land..If you fucking cunts disrespect another fucking ATG hall of fame fighters that have mixed it up with other ATG fighters and bring up some god damned Calzaghe and fucking Kessler...FUCK YOU>>>>:deal:rofl:rofl:rofl:lol::lol::lol: COMEDY>>>

Did you know that Mikkel Kessler would easily defeat James Toney also?

Kessler likely defeats Hagler wide as well. Kessler also matches up extremely well with a prime Bernard Hopkins.

[Toopretty]

Did you know that Mikkel Kessler would easily defeat James Toney also?

Kessler likely defeats Hagler wide as well. Kessler also matches up extremely well with a prime Bernard Hopkins .

I rest my case

[Amsterdam]

I rest my case

Do you think Winky Wright defeats Mikkel Kessler?

[DanePugilist]

You are not elite for not beating anybody of note that is even close to being elite..This is boxing bitch..this is not fantasy football or basketball...You have to be in great fights against champions of high regard...Neither fighter mentioned as done this....EVER....You seem to fail. So you are only elite by beating elites? So you mean before ie Roy Jones jnr beat his first elite, he wasn't? You simply don't know anything, I even highly doubt you have ever watched either man.

[KO Boxing]

Or it could just be my take on the matter. I don't need to build up either. Fans with eyes in the head can see they are elites. If you can't well, then you will know later.

It's your take that RJJ will dominate Calzaghe. However, unlike me you seem to undervalue Calzaghes abilities. I'll let you know that I have been a fan of RJJ for many years, and still support him unlike so many other bandwagoneers we have here on the forum.
I don't undervalue Joe Calzaghe and his ability. I rate him in the p4p top ten, and I rank him as the no. 1 super middleweight in the world (although with a very good chance of losing to Kessler). I just said the Calzaghe Kessler fights is one of the best figthts in boxing right now, and with some awesome figthts, thats saying a lot in itself. However, I also rated Naz at the time (despite him being a cockhead. Honestly, who could like that personality?) but that doesn't mean that a resume exists where it doesn't. So I stand by the question, if Calzaghe suffers a loss does his place in history get as tainted as Naz's was by his loss?

It's all kind of a balancing act, wouldn't you say, though? People are greatly under appreicating his skills, whereas others are greatly over appreciating his skills...

Jones, however, is merely a different level of fighter. H2H one of the greatest of all time, and p4p in the top 40 (arguably higher). Putting Calzaghe on his level is a clear example of someone greatly over appreciating his ability.

Claiming that ON PAPER Joe is the greatest super middleweight of all time (cause Roy didn't have too many fights there), and H2H a top fiver, is a very fair assessment I'd argue. Putting him on Jones level, is just not.

IMO, of course.

And Dane, I do hope you read the first two lines of my first post. While I stand by a number of things I have said in this thread, this was still a joke post. Mainly aimed at all the other joke posts recently made, and because I have a *thing* about the British...

If you knew who I was and where I came from, you may understand... :good

[Toopretty]

Do you think Winky Wright defeats Mikkel Kessler?

I cant talk to you anymore..It is pointless and redundant. First I thought you guys were just fucking with me..Now I know you are serious and it scares the shit out of me..So from both of you deluded morons point of view...Kessler and Calzaghe are the two best fighters from 160-168 over the past 25 years....I mean....that is what you are saying..you cant spin around it...I rest my case.:cool:

[KO Boxing]

Do you think Winky Wright defeats Mikkel Kessler?
Not at all... But I'd argue a prime Bernard Hopkins (who we now know can fit 175 extremely well, so 168 would be no problem) and a prime Hagler (who is arugably the greatest 160 pounder of all time, only 8 pounds shy of 168 ) beat Kessler...

If you are truly the visionary that you think you are and Kessler AND Calzaghe go on to PROVE that they beat these two, then at that time, I will SURELY eat my crow... And hail CHJ as the literal second coming

[Amsterdam]

I cant talk to you anymore..It is pointless and redundant. First I thought you guys were just fucking with me..Now I know you are serious and it scares the shit out of me..So from both of you deluded morons point of view...Kessler and Calzaghe are the two best fighters from 160-168 over the past 25 years....I mean....that is what you are saying..you cant spin around it...I rest my case.:cool:

No, last 25 years, Jones is the best from 160-175.

[Toopretty]

you said kessler easily beats toney and hagler and do well with hopkins..so to me..they are probably top 5 fighters from 160-168 over the past 25 years respectfully.....so if kessler can beat those guys he would no doubt be probably #1 by your theory....

[KO Boxing]

I think I gotta learn how to rile the Brits up better.

Amsterdams a Swiss living in the US... Shifty is also from the US (I gather?)... and Dane is from Denmark (I gather, or maybe via somewhere like Amsterdam).

So NO bloody Brits so far! :fire

[DanePugilist]

I don't undervalue Joe Calzaghe and his ability. I rate him in the p4p top ten, and I rank him as the no. 1 super middleweight in the world (although with a very good chance of losing to Kessler). I just said the Calzaghe Kessler fights is one of the best figthts in boxing right now, and with some awesome figthts, thats saying a lot in themselves. However, I also rated Naz at the time (despite him being a cockhead. Honestly, who could like that personality?) but that doesn't mean that a resume exists where it doesn't. So I stand by the question, if Calzaghe suffers a loss does his place in history get as tainted as Naz's was by his loss?

It's all kind of a balancing act, wouldn't you say, though? People are greatly under appreicating his skills, whereas others are greatly over appreciating his skills...

Jones, however, is merely a different level of fighter. H2H one of the greatest of all time, and p4p in the top 40 (arguably higher). Putting Calzaghe on his level is a clear example of someone greatly over appreciating his ability.

Claiming that ON PAPER Joe is the greatest super middleweight of all time (cause Roy didn't have too many fights there), and H2H a top fiver, is a very fair assessment I'd argue. Putting him on Jones level, is just not.

IMO, of course.

And Dane, I do hope you read the first two lines of my first post. While I stand by a number of things I have said in this thread, this was still a joke post. Mainly aimed at all the other joke posts recently made, and because I have a *thing* about the British...

If you knew who I was and where I came from, you may understand... :goodIt was a valid question. In fact a very good one you posted in your OP.

Firstly I need to emphesize that I wrote "primer" - not prime. Meaning that todays RJJ would of course not be a fair comparison.

Hamed was a good fighter, and I hated him as much as the next guy for his arrogant attitude. I held my fingers crossed throughout the fight for MAB to beat him. Still in hindsight, Hamed did very good vs such a skilled opponent - too good to be called anything less than a very good fighter. It might have been that Hamed was caught in the web of the arrogant image, it might have been that that led him to not fighting at top level again; the higher you fly the deeper you fall. He was still a good fighter, but nowhere near the quality of JC, as I see it.

Even if I think you have posted fairly, I dont think that just because you hate the british should mean you think less of a fighter(not that i think your posting reflects it) - he can't help it where he was born:lol: - nor have most british supported him.

[KO Boxing]

Even if I think you have posted fairly, I dont think that just because you hate the british should mean you think less of a fighter(not that i think your posting reflects it) - he can't help it where he was born:lol: - nor have most british supported him.
:D

I don't HATE the British, mate. I'm quite selective and bias with who I choose to hate. :yep (as hard as it is to admit, one of my favourite actors is Scottish, so that kinda takes away from my argument). And while my rivalry with them is very heated and bitter, its still only friendly.

Anyone else from Australia can maybe help me out? It's hard to explain. Maybe it's because they got scared and actually sent all their convicts to live in a paradise, eventually over-taking them in a large number of fields (particularily sport) - while they left themselves in a small shithole of a country where its cold and rains. :deal

Never did claim this post to be fair... But other posts aren't either (e.g. posts about Taylor, for example, a fighter I don't particularily rate at all, in fact, and would pick to LOSE to both Calzaghe and Kessler)

[DanePugilist]

:D

I don't HATE the British, mate. I'm quite selective and bias with who I choose to hate. :yep (as hard as it is to admit, one of my favourite actors is Scottish, so that kinda takes away from my argument). And while my rivalry with them is very heated and bitter, its still only friendly.Nothing wrong with that - thats quite healthy, imho.

Anyone else from Australia can maybe help me out? It's hard to explain. Maybe it's because they got scared and actually sent all their convicts to live in a paradise, eventually over-taking them in a large number of fields (particularily sport) - while they left themselves in a small shithole of a country where its cold and rains. :deal

Never did claim this post to be fair... But other posts aren't either (e.g. posts about Taylor, for example, a fighter I don't particularily rate at all, in fact, and would pick to LOSE to both Calzaghe and Kessler)I understand rivalry, we have the same with the other Scandinavian countries, especially Sweden, but we will often root for them, when Denmark isn't involved. Its all in good nature, and its healthy as I said before. Where it gets unhealthy is, when bitterness becomes involved. Aussies shouldn't be bitter that they were deported to Australian paradise. The english shouldn't be bitter at the immigrants and freedom fighters of America.

I am glad your eyes are wide open concerning where Kessler and JC are.

[stuistylee]

toney wlda fucked cal up...no probs...

[THN]

I think I gotta learn how to rile the Brits up better.

Amsterdams a Swiss living in the US... Shifty is also from the US (I gather?)... and Dane is from Denmark (I gather, or maybe via somewhere like Amsterdam).

So NO bloody Brits so far! :fire
They only show up in threads like "Calzaghe is immortal" and so!

[Marnoff]

Simply, no.

[grayggr]

:D

I don't HATE the British, mate. I'm quite selective and bias with who I choose to hate. :yep (as hard as it is to admit, one of my favourite actors is Scottish, so that kinda takes away from my argument). And while my rivalry with them is very heated and bitter, its still only friendly.

Anyone else from Australia can maybe help me out? It's hard to explain. Maybe it's because they got scared and actually sent all their convicts to live in a paradise, eventually over-taking them in a large number of fields (particularily sport) - while they left themselves in a small shithole of a country where its cold and rains. :deal

Never did claim this post to be fair... But other posts aren't either (e.g. posts about Taylor, for example, a fighter I don't particularily rate at all, in fact, and would pick to LOSE to both Calzaghe and Kessler)

Convict.

Happy Now?

[Dorfmeister]

Fuck no he isnt the Prince. He is the fucking king. Calzaghe is a P4P fighter an will prove it when he faces Kesseler. After that no one will be be able to doubt his extraoridinary skill

I have no doubts Calzaghe is no average Joe but going as far as to say that he is a proven virtuoso seems rather unreal to say the least. I would second MexicanJew that he is much more skillful than british fighters tend to be, amazing handspeed, accuracy and great footwork are more than obvious but Joe may have to dig deeper and just stop slappin with the inside of his gloves so that he can impress overseas rather than just win WBO 168-pound title fights in his home turf... I like Joe and this fight but even if he wins a 12 rounder, the WBC 168-pound strap and a 21st title defense, is not that little precious so far 4 a P4P claim?

[boxfan99]

UH oh...you done did it....the pro calzaghe/every other boxer is overrated clan is going to get ya...They are coming..I will tell you how they will respond. First they will of course dispute the fact that Calzaghe has beaten a lot of top level fighters such as Bika/Lacy/Manfredo sauce and all the other british fighters that were good(we just didnt know about them)..lol 2. They will dispute fantasy match ups...like Calzaghe beats a prime toney etc etc at 168. Though he was fighting around that time and never mixed it up with the real fighters. 3. They are just going to bring up Taylor and that he is in fact a NAZ or below him. And Zakman would say that he has fought those soft punching middleweights to hide his glass jaw...As you know if it is not Iron then he is a garbage fighter..that about sums it up....

Wow, you described the Calzaghe fanboys perfectly.:good

[Sinew]

1) Losing to prime MAB is no shame.
2) JC-primer RJJ would probably be a life and death situation. For me its a toss-up. Toney would be killed.
3) Joe Calzaghe has been too overlooked for someone this good. Unfortunately it required a sound beating of an US boxer to make a little buzz.
4) Joe Calzaghe is an elite fighter, who by skill alone would be top 3 p4p.
5) Kessler will beat him in the best match of the last decade. I hope you will recognize this, and watch it.
6) Even if Joe loses, he will still be great, and will still beat anyone else from 160-175.
7) Kessler is just that good.

Hope it helps... You are now wiser.

I had to stop reading after I got to 2).
You must be some sort of stoooopud if you think for one moment that prime agaisnt prime, Calzaghe would beat Toney . Toney's left hook and straight right hand would annihilate JC. His streaight right hand at an obese level is a gift from god. That straight right hand at middleweight?
In his PRIME? =Target practice.

When it comes to slick southpaws, Michael Nunn had that covered.
Calzaghe would be easier to hit.

[Sinew]

Is Calzaghe the next Prince? No.

CAn he be beaten up by Kessler the same way Barrerra
beat up Naz? Yes . The recipe for upset is the same.
A diciplined strong fighter agaisnt an akward southpaw.
Its there ...It can happen...

[DanePugilist]

I had to stop reading after I got to 2).
You must be some sort of stoooopud if you think for one moment that prime agaisnt prime, Calzaghe would beat Toney . Toney's left hook and straight right hand would annihilate JC. His streaight right hand at an obese level is a gift from god. That straight right hand at middleweight?
In his PRIME? =Target practice.

When it comes to slick southpaws, Michael Nunn had that covered.
Calzaghe would be easier to hit.How can I be the stupid one, if you are the one, who can't read? Can't you see difference between prime and primer(this has already been explained).

If you think that Toney will beat JC, then fine. I just want you to watch Calzaghe fight, then rewatch RJJ-Toney to give you some clue. Since you don't really care to take my post serious, I really don't wanna help your incompetence any further.

If you wanna respond to someone, its a good thing that you learn how to read, and to read everything they have written.

[Sinew]

I didnt say that Joe wasnt diciplined. I never said that at all.

I understand that this fight has gotten you guys bubbling ...

[teetop]

It's not a regular championship, it's a contest between two of boxings elite in terms of skill level. Kessler is masterful at every aspect of his style, as is Calzaghe, Kessler is prime and Calzaghe is still game, this is for the first undisputed SMW championship in the divisions history.

Normal championship, amusing as I said.

I'd bet you feel that Pavlik has a chance against Kessler, that's the hilarious part, especially when Kessler won every round against his last opponent, who is superior to Pavlik.

How is andrade superior to pavlik?

[Sinew]

How can I be the stupid one, if you are the one, who can't read? Can't you see difference between prime and primer(this has already been explained).

If you think that Toney will beat JC, then fine. I just want you to watch Calzaghe fight, then rewatch RJJ-Toney to give you some clue. Since you don't really care to take my post serious, I really don't wanna help your incompetence any further.

If you wanna respond to someone, its a good thing that you learn how to read, and to read everything they have written.

I can read maybe you need to write better constructed sentences.
ITs the sentence category here:


2) JC-primer RJJ would probably be a life and death situation. For me its a toss-up. Toney would be killed.

Since I dont exactly know how " primer " relates to boxing, I can only assume that you meant JC vs. Jones fighting in their primes.
Is it safe to assume such things?

I propably wouldnt have to ask if you made this more clear. Or it could just be that I dont know how to read:huh ?

Right after that, its : ' Toney would be killed.'

When would he be killed? Since this category started with two fighters
fighting in thier primes, as I continue to read the rest ; it just states that Toney, would be killed.

Which should fairly be taken as : Toney in his prime, would be killed.
So if that is not what you meant they why put it there in the first place?

So you have JC vs RJ " primer"

But Toney isnt "primer" or can you just pick whatever version of Toney that you like? Cruiserweight Toney, Heavy weight Toney,... gradeschool Toney?

[Amsterdam]

How is andrade superior to pavlik?

Better chin, more constant pressure, equal workrate, larger size and more power IMO. Defence is about the same, speed is about the same also... only Andrade keeps the tempo for 12 straight rounds and Pavlik has shown he can run out of gas.

[pipe wrenched]

I believe he broke free of this accusation with his dismantling of Jeff Lacy.

[pipe wrenched]

Better chin, more constant pressure, equal workrate, larger size and more power IMO. Defence is about the same, speed is about the same also... only Andrade keeps the tempo for 12 straight rounds and Pavlik has shown he can run out of gas.

Amsterdam, buddy, exactly which fight or fights did Pavlik run out of gas??

[MSTR]

1) Losing to prime MAB is no shame.
2) JC-primer RJJ would probably be a life and death situation. For me its a toss-up. Toney would be killed.
3) Joe Calzaghe has been too overlooked for someone this good. Unfortunately it required a sound beating of an US boxer to make a little buzz.
4) Joe Calzaghe is an elite fighter, who by skill alone would be top 3 p4p.
5) Kessler will beat him in the best match of the last decade. I hope you will recognize this, and watch it.
6) Even if Joe loses, he will still be great, and will still beat anyone else from 160-175.
7) Kessler is just that good.

Hope it helps... You are now wiser.
JC vs Prime RJJ is NO WAY IN HELL LIFE AND DEATH. Just thought I would clear that one up. RJJ was demolishing people at 168. No way would he be going the distance with guys like Brewer, Bika, Salem and Ashira. RJJ at 168 was probably as close as possible to being an unbeatable fighter as we will ever see IMO. The way he fought against southpaw Antoine Byrd was phenomanel. No way in hell would the defense of Calzaghe hold up to that sort of onslaught.

[MSTR]

:nut:nut:nut:nut:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:nut:nut:nut Like I said..a REGULAR fucking championship fight. Between two regular champions.. one old..one new..:think:yep:yep
IMO this is a super fight. On the same level of Shane v Cotto and Mayweather v Hatton. Two of the top guys in boxing battling it out. A regular championship fight would to me be a mandatory defence. A regular unification bout would to me be a couple of guys each with only one title, neither being particularly highly regarded looking to unify. A super fight is usually two guys with great records, excellent skills and big followings who want to settle who is the top dog in the division, and undisputed champion. If you think that this is an "ordinary" fight then I totally disagree.

[MSTR]

This is a stretch.

Pavlik dispatched a very live, very threatening Pantera - while Pantera was hyped up, that win alone gives Pavlik a much better reputation and performance history than Andrade.

Andrade to me looks like nothing more than a walking chin with little else going for him.
I agree, reason being that I believe Pavlik to be a superior technical fighter then Andrade. Still they are very comparable as fighters, both willing to put their chin on the line and try to walk through their opponent.

[DanePugilist]

I can read maybe you need to write better constructed sentences.
ITs the sentence category here:



Since I dont exactly know how " primer " relates to boxing, I can only assume that you meant JC vs. Jones fighting in their primes.
Is it safe to assume such things?

I propably wouldnt have to ask if you made this more clear. Or it could just be that I dont know how to read:huh ?

Right after that, its : ' Toney would be killed.'

When would he be killed? Since this category started with two fighters
fighting in thier primes, as I continue to read the rest ; it just states that Toney, would be killed.

Which should fairly be taken as : Toney in his prime, would be killed.
So if that is not what you meant they why put it there in the first place?

So you have JC vs RJ " primer"

But Toney isnt "primer" or can you just pick whatever version of Toney that you like? Cruiserweight Toney, Heavy weight Toney,... gradeschool Toney?Nice try, but I have already explained the primer thing to someone else in this thread, before you posted your first. If you don't understand my ill constructed sentences, at least read the explainations. Your own ill constructed sentence mixed RJJ and Toney into one question. JC would go life-and death with a slightly past prime(not the shell we see now). A prime RJJ would probably beat JC, at any point. JC would kill the prime version of Toney. It's about styles, not ability. Toney was an awesome fighter, but RJJ showed that he doesn't handle speed too well; he went into a shell, same would happen vs JC.

Hope you see what I mean. It's okay, that you don't agree with me, but explain why Toney would survive vs JC other than hook, hook whatever, because that is stupid.

[MSTR]

Did you know that Mikkel Kessler would easily defeat James Toney also?

Kessler likely defeats Hagler wide as well. Kessler also matches up extremely well with a prime Bernard Hopkins.
James Toney is still a top fighter. I think its a bit early to start suggesting Kessler could beat some of these guys, as he really has yet to prove himself vs a top fighter. That said, style wise Kessler could give Toney a lot of problems, as would Calzaghe. I would pick prime B-Hop to be far too cagey for Kessler. He would take the fight inside where Kessler doesn't like to be, and thats where he would win it.

[DanePugilist]

JC vs Prime RJJ is NO WAY IN HELL LIFE AND DEATH. Just thought I would clear that one up. RJJ was demolishing people at 168. No way would he be going the distance with guys like Brewer, Bika, Salem and Ashira. RJJ at 168 was probably as close as possible to being an unbeatable fighter as we will ever see IMO. The way he fought against southpaw Antoine Byrd was phenomanel. No way in hell would the defense of Calzaghe hold up to that sort of onslaught.I have explained that its not prime RJJ I am refering to, I just wanted to make sure that people wouldn't think the RJJ of today, because that is given that JC would win that.

[Amsterdam]

James Toney is still a top fighter. I think its a bit early to start suggesting Kessler could beat some of these guys, as he really has yet to prove himself vs a top fighter. That said, style wise Kessler could give Toney a lot of problems, as would Calzaghe. I would pick prime B-Hop to be far too cagey for Kessler. He would take the fight inside where Kessler doesn't like to be, and thats where he would win it.

I'm willing to talk on this anytime. But Kessler is improving, has plenty more dimensions than people think.

You have to be able to control the pace to defeat Kessler, can Toney do it?

[Toopretty]

As I stated previously this shit is not a SUPERfight it is a unification fight....Only in the UK and in Denmark or wherever in the euro area is this fight big...Nobody even knows who the crap Kessler is in the casual world of boxing..A lot of die hards dont even talk about this fight..opposed to the other highly tauted fights this year..This is like the little engine that could of fights...two champions with skill but never really did anything to amaze the world or get the attention of fans throughout the world....

[MSTR]

I absolutely agree with this.

Roy Jones Jr is a phenom in his prime at 160-168 and the closest to "unbeatable" that any fighter can be. Without doubt, he was the fastest man ever at 160-168 (yes, faster than SRL) and his power was explosive at those two weights also.

He had great evasive defence, he could fight from either stance and he had a wickedly great lead right hand that was so brilliantly triggered, it'd catch any southpaw out on more than one occassion.

You combine RJJ's speed, power and endurance and I think he'd either KO, TKO or dominate Calzaghe in that fight.

In saying that, I don't see too many others at 168 being able to compete with Calzaghe in his prime either, for similar reasons - too explosive, too much speed, too adaptable, enough power to get the job done and enough of a chin to weather some tough shots.
Good post. Both guys do things in the ring that are very hard for their opponents to adapt to, and that makes them very unique as fighters. With Roy I think it is fairly obvious, but with Calzaghe, the way he throws combinations in close quarters would be a nightmare for most fighters to try and counter. Fighting Calzaghe on the inside IMO would be extremely hard to do.

[MSTR]

As I stated previously this shit is not a SUPERfight it is a unification fight....Only in the UK and in Denmark or wherever in the euro area is this fight big...Nobody even knows who the crap Kessler is in the casual world of boxing..A lot of die hards dont even talk about this fight..opposed to the other highly tauted fights this year..This is like the little engine that could of fights...two champions with skill but never really did anything to amaze the world or get the attention of fans throughout the world....
The whole world doesn't revolve around America. Just because this fight isn't big in the states doesn't mean it isn't a SUPER FIGHT. I would be very suprised if the PPV sales for this bout didn't out do almost all other fights this year excluding floyd v oscar. Do you ever take the time to ponder whether fights like mosley v cotto is going to be MASSIVE throughout Europe? I doubt it. Still doesn't mean that it won't be a HUGE fight though.

[cuchulain]

:D

I don't HATE the British, mate. I'm quite selective and bias with who I choose to hate. :yep (as hard as it is to admit, one of my favourite actors is Scottish, so that kinda takes away from my argument). And while my rivalry with them is very heated and bitter, its still only friendly.

Anyone else from Australia can maybe help me out? It's hard to explain. Maybe it's because they got scared and actually sent all their convicts to live in a paradise, eventually over-taking them in a large number of fields (particularily sport) - while they left themselves in a small shithole of a country where its cold and rains. :deal

Never did claim this post to be fair... But other posts aren't either (e.g. posts about Taylor, for example, a fighter I don't particularily rate at all, in fact, and would pick to LOSE to both Calzaghe and Kessler)

The Australians MUST be a fine people.

Their ancestors were selected by England's finest judges.

[Toopretty]

Come on, man! Are you kidding me?! No WAY Kessler would have defeated Toney. I can't believe you just said that. I don't see him beating a prime Hagler or a Hopkins, either. I'm now convinced all of this hype you're doing is to build Calzaghe up more. Kessler is a excellent fighter, but I'm 100% sure all of this hype you're doing is to credit Calzaghe even more when he wins.


:-(

:good:good Thats it....I knew it..I That Amsterdam....he is sinister....We are on to your scheme..He is playing mind games...lol...The light has shined...Down with Amsterdam and his hooligan shananigans....:patsch:nut He is buttering up Kessler to be a bigger roast then what he actually is...Amsterdam you sicko......Shame....shame...:nono:nono:nono:nono

[MSTR]

I'm willing to talk on this anytime. But Kessler is improving, has plenty more dimensions than people think.

You have to be able to control the pace to defeat Kessler, can Toney do it?
I actually think that Kessler could quite possibly beat Toney, but in fairness, with wins over MCallum, Nunn, Johnson and Barkley at 168 and under, Toney probably deserves a bit more credit until Kessler really faces a truely elite fighter.

[Amsterdam]

Come on, man! Are you kidding me?! No WAY Kessler would have defeated Toney. I can't believe you just said that. I don't see him beating a prime Hagler or a Hopkins, either. I'm now convinced all of this hype you're doing is to build Calzaghe up more. Kessler is a excellent fighter, but I'm 100% sure all of this hype you're doing is to credit Calzaghe even more when he wins.


:-(

Toney was never defeated by lesser fighters? Now take a horrible styles match up for him and a supremely skilled operator commanding the style with good speed and consistency.

It's going to be a nightmare for Toney even if he pulls a late KO rally...

[Toopretty]

The whole world doesn't revolve around America. Just because this fight isn't big in the states doesn't mean it isn't a SUPER FIGHT. I would be very suprised if the PPV sales for this bout didn't out do almost all other fights this year excluding floyd v oscar. Do you ever take the time to ponder whether fights like mosley v cotto is going to be MASSIVE throughout Europe? I doubt it. Still doesn't mean that it won't be a HUGE fight though.


Ok if thats the case..lol then Calzaghe and Kessler should be making multi millions or Hatton would not have to come to the US when he sells out in the UK every fight to make the big money. And the highest pay day of his career damned near combined...WOW..That makes sense..:patsch

[Amsterdam]

I actually think that Kessler could quite possibly beat Kessler, but in fairness, with wins over MCallum, Nunn, Johnson and Barkley at 168 and under, Toney probably deserves a bit more credit until Kessler really faces a truely elite fighter.

Barkley isn't even worth mentioning.

Anyway, fair. However, you don't always need to view a guy against an elite because sometimes elite is just a hair difference in perception...

Just like how Taylor is considered 'elite', which is absurd. Taylor's flaws are evident against lesser than B level fighters, a really observant fan can spot them, Kessler has only 1 major flaw, he's tenative when under fire... technically he's perfect for his style and has the precision, speed and workrate to massacre just about anybody who cannot control the pace.

Now, can the stationary Toney control the pace? He'll be eating a lot of jabs regardless.

[MSTR]

Ok if thats the case..lol then Calzaghe and Kessler should be making multi millions or Hatton would not have to come to the US when he sells out in the UK every fight to make the big money. And the highest pay day of his career damned near combined...WOW..That makes sense..:patsch
They are making multi millions. What are you talking about?

[Toopretty]

They are making multi millions. What are you talking about?

:rofl:rofl yeah really..how much......lol

[DanePugilist]

As I stated previously this shit is not a SUPERfight it is a unification fight....Only in the UK and in Denmark or wherever in the euro area is this fight big...Nobody even knows who the crap Kessler is in the casual world of boxing..A lot of die hards dont even talk about this fight..opposed to the other highly tauted fights this year..This is like the little engine that could of fights...two champions with skill but never really did anything to amaze the world or get the attention of fans throughout the world....That is why we need to educate the casual viewer of what true boxing is all about. Which category do you fall into?

[Toopretty]

Barkley isn't even worth mentioning.

Anyway, fair. However, you don't always need to view a guy against an elite because sometimes elite is just a hair difference in perception...

Just like how Taylor is considered 'elite', which is absurd. Taylor's flaws are evident against lesser than B level fighters, a really observant fan can spot them, Kessler has only 1 major flaw, he's tenative when under fire... technically he's perfect for his style and has the precision, speed and workrate to massacre just about anybody who cannot control the pace.

Now, can the stationary Toney control the pace? He'll be eating a lot of jabs regardless.

I never seen Toney eat a lot of jabs unless it was from Roy or a southpaw...not a fighter that is obvious in everything he does and that you can see plant his feet before he fires of his one, two...:-(:-(:-( Nothing Toney has not seen before..try again crazy one.:nut

[MSTR]

Barkley isn't even worth mentioning.

Anyway, fair. However, you don't always need to view a guy against an elite because sometimes elite is just a hair difference in perception...

Just like how Taylor is considered 'elite', which is absurd. Taylor's flaws are evident against lesser than B level fighters, a really observant fan can spot them, Kessler has only 1 major flaw, he's tenative when under fire... technically he's perfect for his style and has the precision, speed and workrate to massacre just about anybody who cannot control the pace.

Now, can the stationary Toney control the pace? He'll be eating a lot of jabs regardless.
I think Taylor does have flaws, but physically he is very strong and talented. Technically he can be very poor at times though. Kesslers flaws are apparent in the way he lacks the ability to effectively fight off the back foot, like most european fighters. He backs up very tall, and leaves his chin a target. He most times won't use lateral movement, and he isn't particularly comfortable in close quarters. I think a great pressure fighter at this weight could possibly cause him problems, although the way he puts combinations together would help to counter this.

[DanePugilist]

I think Taylor does have flaws, but physically he is very strong and talented. Technically he can be very poor at times though. Kesslers flaws are apparent in the way he lacks the ability to effectively fight off the back foot, like most european fighters. He backs up very tall, and leaves his chin a target. He most times won't use lateral movement, and he isn't particularly comfortable in close quarters. I think a great pressure fighter at this weight could possibly cause him problems, although the way he puts combinations together would help to counter this.If it is so apperent, why has his chin hardly been tested? Nor do you know he is uncomfortable in close quarters, he has rarely been there, and when he has, it has never posed him problems.

Andrade pressed him for 12 rounds without end, yet Kessler outboxed him. What pressure fighter are you thinking about?

How can you see flaws when none has been exposed?

[MSTR]

:rofl:rofl yeah really..how much......lol
9785.34 million. Obviously I don't know the "exact" figure, but if you actually followed boxing, it is common knowledge. There were numerous threads on ESB discussing the figures for the negotiations when they were taking place. How much did you think they were making? I get the feeling you ar extremely naive.

[MSTR]

If it is so apperent, why has his chin hardly been tested? Nor do you know he is uncomfortable in close quarters, he has rarely been there, and when he has, it has never posed him problems.

Andrade pressed him for 12 rounds without end, yet Kessler outboxed him. What pressure fighter are you thinking about?

How can you see flaws when none has been exposed?
Because he is yet to fight a top level fighter. I can still see from watching fights were his weaknesses lie. He has been tagged backing up before, and he has looked uncomfortable in the few times Andrade got inside on him. Undefeated fighters still have flaws.

[MSTR]

If it is so apperent, why has his chin hardly been tested? Nor do you know he is uncomfortable in close quarters, he has rarely been there, and when he has, it has never posed him problems.

Andrade pressed him for 12 rounds without end, yet Kessler outboxed him. What pressure fighter are you thinking about?

How can you see flaws when none has been exposed?
There are no GREAT pressure fighters at this weight. I actually think if Lacy got inside on Kessler he could give him a tougher fight then most people think though. Lacy was beaten on the inside by Calzaghe not the outside. Kessler is no where near the combination puncher Calzaghe is on the inside. If Lacy gets past the jab then Kessler would be in trouble. Calzaghe is a more well rounded fighter then Kess, although Kesslers one dimension is a great one.

[DanePugilist]

Because he is yet to fight a top level fighter. I can still see from watching fights were his weaknesses lie. He has been tagged backing up before, and he has looked uncomfortable in the few times Andrade got inside on him. Undefeated fighters still have flaws.Yes, all fighters have flaws, but we are yet to see, which ones, imho. I don't see it as a flaw to be hit once, when backing up. Name me one fighter that doesn't. That is not a flaw. A flaw is a weakness, that will cause them trouble, as has been evident in ie Taylors case. Kessler has never been in trouble, no matter what type of fighter that stood before him.

Maybe you just see something I don't and I will probably grow the wiser eventually then.

[DanePugilist]

There are no GREAT pressure fighters at this weight. I actually think if Lacy got inside on Kessler he could give him a tougher fight then most people think though. Lacy was beaten on the inside by Calzaghe not the outside. Kessler is no where near the combination puncher Calzaghe is on the inside. If Lacy gets past the jab then Kessler would be in trouble. Calzaghe is a more well rounded fighter then Kess, although Kesslers one dimension is a great one.Thats a big IF. Lacy may well be tougher for Kessler than it was for JC. Lacys only chance would be to get on the in close quarters, because outside it is evident that Kessler is his superior. Since Kessler is faster and smarter than Lacy, I don't see it happening. We can only go by what we have seen thus far to predict what will happen.

[MSTR]

Yes, all fighters have flaws, but we are yet to see, which ones, imho. I don't see it as a flaw to be hit once, when backing up. Name me one fighter that doesn't. That is not a flaw. A flaw is a weakness, that will cause them trouble, as has been evident in ie Taylors case. Kessler has never been in trouble, no matter what type of fighter that stood before him.

Maybe you just see something I don't and I will probably grow the wiser eventually then.
He certainly got tagged by Mundine when mundine backed him up with combinations. This defensive pattern he has is IMO a weakness, although a minor one. Andrade was doing the same at times also, but is really quite slow on his feet. Lacy is actually fairly quick on his feet at closing distance. I have no doubt he could get inside on Kessler at some point. It would come down to whoever was better at implementing their gameplan.

[MSTR]

As for payment amounts

As far as I'm aware, neither fighter is guaranteed to breach $5 million.

Calzaghe looks like to take about 4.5 mil - Kessler about 3 - 3.5 mil
Thanks for that. I was sure that was about right. Regardless it is certainly in the millions, for whoever it was that tried to refute that fact.

[Lance_Uppercut]

No, I'd say he's more like the next Darius Michelczewski.

[MSTR]

No, I'd say he's more like the next Darius Michelczewski.
Can you elaborate on this? Is it Because he is a gifted fighter who never really has ventured out to face the top opposition he needs to be considered great?

[English Nutter]

The whole world doesn't revolve around America. Just because this fight isn't big in the states doesn't mean it isn't a SUPER FIGHT. I would be very suprised if the PPV sales for this bout didn't out do almost all other fights this year excluding floyd v oscar. Do you ever take the time to ponder whether fights like mosley v cotto is going to be MASSIVE throughout Europe? I doubt it. Still doesn't mean that it won't be a HUGE fight though.come on mate you keep forgeting if your not a yank you dont get respect and even worse if your better than the yanks your hated.
If you dont fight in the US you don't get respect either(Hatton has loads!:thumbsup ),at the end of the day if your not from the continent of North or south America your shit!!:finger

[DanePugilist]

come on mate you keep forgeting if your not a yank you dont get respect and even worse if your better than the yanks your hated.
If you dont fight in the US you don't get respect either(Hatton has loads!:thumbsup ),at the end of the day if your not from the continent of North or south America your shit!!:fingerSoon the whole world will love both Mikkel Kessler and Joe Calzaghe. They will forget about their false icons. Wait and see....

[A-50]

Okay, before I even start, this is a stupid post. But there's been so many stupid posts around here lately, I'm just under the impression it's a free-for-all. And being that I have a bitter (yet still, friendly) rival with any and everyone British, here I go:

The Prince was a prime example of an over-rated British fighter who had a built up resume... who was exposed by the first real good fighter he faced...

And his position in history has forever been tainted as a result (thank God... Otherwise we'd be hearing Naz KO's Pep and Armstrong et al)...

Will Calzaghe become the next victim? Whether or not Kessler is his Marco Antonio Barrera...



In the end it doesn't really matter, but history ALREADY has a super middleweight paper champion who unified the belts and defended the title 21 times against the likes of Brewer, Mitchell and Tocker Pudwill... In Sven Ottke...

Neither could hold James Toney's jockstrap, let alone Roy Jones... Let alone be THOUGHT of as one of the greatest super middleweights in the world.

So, the question is, being that Calzaghe has a nearly non-existent resume, would a single loss (ala Naz) against a good fighter completely eradicate his career (maybe completely eradicate is a bit far, but you get it)?

:lol: Discuss.

Calzaghe would beat both Toney and Jones. Jones has a Glass Jaw and Calzaghe would run circles around Toney. This thread is a joke. :lol:

[cuchulain]

Calzaghe would beat both Toney and Jones. Jones has a Glass Jaw and Calzaghe would run circles around Toney. This thread is a joke. :lol:

Calzaghe would beat both at present and any version of Toney, but a prime Jones was the best SMW ever and would defeat Calzaghe.

[English Nutter]

Soon the whole world will love both Mikkel Kessler and Joe Calzaghe. They will forget about their false icons. Wait and see.... except the yanks!!!:nonono

[Lance_Uppercut]

Can you elaborate on this? Is it Because he is a gifted fighter who never really has ventured out to face the top opposition he needs to be considered great?

Precisley.:good