Which British Boxers have been Frank ******s biggest Stooges over the years?

[FLINT ISLAND]

Defintion of a stooge...................

"Person under the control of another"

"A idiot"

"To be ripped off"

"A comedy act"

"used and abused"

"ordered about"

"a person of unquestioning obedience - submissive manner"

"victim of ridcule and pranks"

"one who allows himself to be used for another's profit or advatnage: a puppet"

[Beeston Brawler]

I'd say most of them.

The biggest examples are Ricky Hatton 2001-2004 and Joe Calzaghe 2000-2005.

Of course, guys like Gary Lockett and Gavin Rees would be quite happy to be under the iron fist of a promoter like ****** because they knew they wouldn't get world title fights - and therefore paydays, without his guiding hand.

[Guy]

Enzo Makaveli holds the current role.

[trotter]

The biggest examples are Ricky Hatton 2001-2004 and Joe Calzaghe 2000-2005.



Both undefeated, high profile and very wealthy under ******s's banner


They struck out on their own and cashed in at the end; but would they have been in a position to do that if they hadn't done the '****** years'?

[Beeston Brawler]

Both undefeated, high profile and very wealthy under ******s's banner


They struck out on their own and cashed in at the end; but would they have been in a position to do that if they hadn't done the '****** years'?

:think

I like to think that both of them would have done well without ******..... in fact I am sure they would have done equally as well with anybody else.

Both were held back something silly.... I know Calzaghe amassed a shitload of WBO defences but hardly anybody knew who he was until 2006.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Calzaghe and Hatton both left in the end though - to make it on their own

Fighters like Lennox Lewis and David Haye never played his stooge to begin with

[Beeston Brawler]

I don't think he was all that big when Lewis turned pro.

Let's face it, Lewis didn't need a promoter anyway.

[GazOC]

Stooges to me would be the likes of Lockett, Rees and Enzo but the other side of the fence is that these are Euro/ fringe world level boxers who have earned extremely well out of the sport.

Both Hatton and Calzaghe used ****** just as much as he used them.

[Beeston Brawler]

Gary Lockett and Gavin Rees are certainly stooges..... shining examples of the Sports Network gravy train.

At a lower level you could consider someone like Steven Bell, who bums Frank ****** in every interview he does in Boxing Monthly. He tried to say that Audley Harrison would have fared much better had he been with FW from turning pro.

I'm not convinced. That left hook would still have landed..... and it would have been in 2003 rather than 2007 :rofl

I wouldn't call Maccarinelli a stooge in the strictest sense. He has been aboard the gravy train, but I think he would have enjoyed a certain level of success with another promoter.

[Losfer_Words]

I'd say most of them.

The biggest examples are Ricky Hatton 2001-2004 and Joe Calzaghe 2000-2005.

Of course, guys like Gary Lockett and Gavin Rees would be quite happy to be under the iron fist of a promoter like ****** because they knew they wouldn't get world title fights - and therefore paydays, without his guiding hand.

That is harsh but, equally, completely true. Let's face facts, a lot of guys know they can't make it to the top so try and make the most money- cam anyone blame them either? They're the ones getting hit in the head. Even though he is a prick, you have to accept that ****** is brilliant at the job he does.

[GazOC]

I think with Enzo, unless it was timed right, you are looking at a top 10 cruiserweight who loses in his world title challenge. ******s 'influence' can get the right shot at the right time.

[Raashid]

For me Naseem Hamed was his biggest stooge. For a man who bragged about greatness and achieving legendary status, he allowed himself to be manipulated by ****** from the beginning. Back in 1995 he was first WBO super-bantam mandatory challenger to Barrera who was already highly rated in the US, but he instead followed the ****** script by moving above his natural weight to fight Steve Robinson and then made numerous pointless WBO defences. Naz knew enough about boxing history and the word scene to know that he wouldn't achieve greatness without beating some elite US and Mexican fighters in their prime, but he was satisfied beating the ageing big names of the division. Hamed was the worst stooge, simply because he had far superior ability then the rest so had more of a duty to himself and boxing to defy the ****** approach.

[TFFP]

None of them.

What you fail to understand is these men were hardly exploited and made a fool of, they became richer than they would have under any other promoter, and got opportunities they would not have had under any other promoter. Despite them being ordinary fighters in some cases.

In Calzaghe's case, yes he could have branched out and fought better opposition, but ultimately he was always very money orientated and he made loads of money. He's unlikely to regret those years.

[GazOC]

What you fail to understand is these men were hardly exploited and made a fool of, they became richer than they would have under any other promoter, and got opportunities they would not have had under any other promoter. Despite them being ordinary fighters in some cases.



I don't think people are failing to understand, several people have already made those points.....

[TFFP]

Flint Island failed.

Frank ****** has never had a stooge, they've all done better economically than they would elsewhere for the simple reason he's the best at promoting a fight.

If you are a shit fighter like Lockett you can thank your lucky stars you are with ******. He'll make you a decent amount of money and get you a shot to nothing.

[Beeston Brawler]

I don't know......

Lockett has those uppercuts :lol:

[FLINT ISLAND]

But what I mean is

Someone like David Haye has been in alot of control of his career from the start and then got the WBC / WBA titles after just a mere 21 fights

those other fighters - might of made good money out of ****** - but they have never had that freedom of a David Haye - they are stooges to ******s plans not their own plan

[TFFP]

Maybe so, but they are getting what they want out of the sport in most cases. They picked ******, they know what they are getting themselves into.

I think many would rather be a 'stooge' with money than a freelance with little.

[GazOC]

But what I mean is

Someone like David Haye has been in alot of control of his career from the start and then got the WBC / WBA titles after just a mere 21 fights

those other fighters - might of made good money out of ****** - but they have never had that freedom of a David Haye - they are stooges to ******s plans not their own plan


But David Haye had the ability to get to the top that way. Rees, Lockett didn't have that option, whats the point of "freedom" if your career ends and you've not won titles and havn't made money?

[TFFP]

David Haye would have made a lot more money with ******. They'd have probably been able to get a good stadium in the UK to fight Wlad rather than having to rely on only Setanta's money for a payday, and he'd probably be on PPV even.

On the plus side he's got there on his own, on his own timescale.

That's the thing you've gotta weigh up, and as Gaz says you can only do the latter if you are good enough. Signing with ****** is far less risky all-round, you'll fulfil the economic side of things and the rest will come later.

[GazOC]

I wonder where Hayes career would be now if he'd have gone with ******? After 21 fights would he be in the position he is now (former cruiserweight champ and lined up for a fight with one of the Kilts)?

[trotter]

I wonder where Hayes career would be now if he'd have gone with ******? After 21 fights would he be in the position he is now (former cruiserweight champ and lined up for a fight with one of the Kilts)?


Probably not

But he'd be richer I suppose

His best payday (I think) is, tellingly, against a ****** fighter

And another thing to consider is that not every fighter has the nous to self-promote... as well as being good enough you need some acumen and some good people around you

[GazOC]

And you have to have the personality/ charisma. Again not an option for Lockett and Rees.....

[FLINT ISLAND]

Enzo Macc has had his career pissed about by ****** since the David Haye loss.......


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[Guy]

Breidis Prescott is is locked in his stooge cupboard, marked 'For Emergency Use Only'

[GazOC]

Enzo Macc has had his career pissed about by ****** since the David Haye loss.......





When he looks back on his career, where ****** is concerned, he should think of the glass being half full rather than half empty.

[brown bomber]

Lets be honest had Calzaghe and Hatton being allowed to use there talent in the tradtional way. Ie... competitive matching, Britsh/Comm/Euro defences then a genuine world title fight they would have probable gone 30-3 (25Ko's) robbed twice in mandatory defences in germany and consigned to the dustbin.

****** as infuriating as his match making can be knows how to build a product which can then be sold to an audience.

Guys like Mitchell, Pryce, Rees etc who aren't world beaters would prob be better served legacy wise somewhere else.

[PrideOfWales]

None of them.

What you fail to understand is these men were hardly exploited and made a fool of, they became richer than they would have under any other promoter, and got opportunities they would not have had under any other promoter. Despite them being ordinary fighters in some cases.

In Calzaghe's case, yes he could have branched out and fought better opposition, but ultimately he was always very money orientated and he made loads of money. He's unlikely to regret those years.

This is exactly right. I don't blame any boxer for wanting to make the money then chase legacy later on when they are financially secure. Let's face it, boxers (in general) are hardly the brightest tools in the box so are unlikely to make life changing amounts of money any other way than boxing. A boxer's money making career is very short. It can be ended in one punch and the source of income can dry up quicker than a Calzaghe combination. Calzaghe said right through his career that he wanted to make his family's future secure first and foremost. He achieved that a few years ago and took the Lacy fight for less than he would have got defending in Cardiff against a no-hoper. These are just facts of life and most well rounded humans would choose exactly the same path.

[mcguirpa]

Like has already been said, ****** doesn't have stooges, it's a two way thing.

James deGale's a millionaire, regardless of whether he fulfills his potential or not. Carl Froch couldn't even get a title defence against a world class fighter put on TV. Froch in particular is years (and pounds) behind where he would have been with ******.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Gavin Rees & Gary Lockett & Enzo Maccarenelli............how ****** treats their careers


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[Guy]

Gavin Rees & Gary Lockett & Enzo Maccarenelli............how ****** treats their careers


[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:lol: