RJJ vs SRR @ 160

[yesihavearm]

Rjj would have won this.

[Illmatic]

maybe....we dont have much to judge Jones from at that weight.

[Lacyace]

Sure would've.

[Fab2333]

I dont kno evrything on SRR, but from what I have watched of him, he seemed better at lower weights than when he moved up in weight. RJ is a natural middleweight/supermiddleweight or wateva. With speed and power that would kill. I pick RJ in this one

[Stewbear]

who did jones beat at 160 again?

[kg0208]

who did jones beat at 160 again?

Every fighter he fought.

[Fab2333]

Every fighter he fought.:rofl:rofl good answer

[Thread Stealer]

Roy would have a size advantage due to different weigh-in rules.

RJJ might win the first one (he definitely has a decent change versus the post-dancing career Robinson), then Ray takes the rematch.

[kg0208]

Roy would have a size advantage due to different weigh-in rules.

RJJ might win the first one (he definitely has a decent change versus the post-dancing career Robinson), then Ray takes the rematch.

Here's the thing. Ray Robinson by all accounts fought better at MW when he fought as a WW against MW. Once he started packing on the weight to fight there, he wasn't as good.

I have a hard time fathoming that 147 SRR could beat 160 RJJ straight up. I don't believe 160 SRR would be able to beat Jones. And nobody SRR beat at 160 could beat Jones IMO. Not even LaMotta.

But I think SRR loses to most of the ATG MW and is overrated there. Hagler, Monzon, even Hopkins half the time would have beaten him IMO.

[Guru_Too_You]

Here's the thing. Ray Robinson by all accounts fought better at MW when he fought as a WW against MW. Once he started packing on the weight to fight there, he wasn't as good.

I have a hard time fathoming that 147 SRR could beat 160 RJJ straight up. I don't believe 160 SRR would be able to beat Jones. And nobody SRR beat at 160 could beat Jones IMO. Not even LaMotta.

But I think SRR loses to most of the ATG MW and is overrated there. Hagler, Monzon, even Hopkins half the time would have beaten him IMO.

Agreed. Given the weigh-in rules that SRR dealt with, Jones would have never made middleweight. Taking new rules into account, SRR would be extremely undersized and he would be at a disadvantage speedwise, both hand and foot.

I don't feel that he could apply a good enough workrate at MW to have his technical advantages come to fruition and he would lose either a lopsided decision, or maybe even get stopped.

[LogDog69]

who did jones beat at 160 again?

Bernard Hopkins

[fatdrunkenslob]

Jones via murder. It would be a mismatch due to the substantial size difference.

[Amsterdam]

This is a joke.

RJJ in 1.

[brooklyn1550]

Jones by decision

[yesihavearm]

RJJ moved up to win a HW title. Leonard was electrifying but is outgunned seriously here.

Jones Jr. KO 5 SRL

We're talking about Robinson not Leonard...

[TanstA]

RJJ moved up to win a HW title. Leonard was electrifying but is outgunned seriously here.

Jones Jr. KO 5 SRL

Mr. I forgot there's two Sugar Rays. :lol:

[BITCH ASS]

This is a joke.

RJJ in 1.

RJJ in 1 against the greatest of all time?

[BITCH ASS]

Yeah, Andre Berto would KO SRR as well, right? I honestly bet you believe that. Am I right?

I like Berto.

As I've told you before, he's the fighter that most reminds me of me.

Oh shit, I thought you were directing this towards me.

My bad, and no, SRR would beat Berto.

[PowerPuncher]

SRR is just better than Roy so I pick him to win. SRR is the 1 fighter who can punnish RJJ for his unorthodox errors. SRRs jab and straight right would be key, but not only that but also his combinations, timing and out and out warfare he could bring.

Because SRR would tage RJJ more than he was ever tagged he may well have exposed RJJs not so great chin.

[KayEpps]

I'll take Roy by UD - only because I think after he's whooping Sugar Ray's ass - Ray starts running.

[ripcity]

I think you have to favor Robinson in this and any match-up at 160, but it is anything but a sure thing. I would give Jones a good chance to beat any one from 160-200.
It is not imposible for Jones to win, but I think Robinson would win this one.

[Amsterdam]

Yeah, Andre Berto would KO SRR as well, right? I honestly bet you believe that. Am I right?

Too many chin problems, but it would be competitive until he got KOed by Ray.

Ray's skill level today would be top 30 at WW in my opinion, top 30 with a punch can KO Berto.

[Amsterdam]

I think you have to favor Robinson in this and any match-up at 160, but it is anything but a sure thing. I would give Jones a good chance to beat any one from 160-200.
It is not imposible for Jones to win, but I think Robinson would win this one.

Why not study some tape of both from an unbiased point of view.

In your mind, think of one as exhibit#1 and the other as exhibit#2.

Watch a few full fights of #1 and #2 at MW, forget they are SRR and Roy Jones, then you will see who is superior, watch two MEN not two 'legendary NAMES'.

Give it a shot mate, you'll see Ray stands no chance.

[Amsterdam]

Are you being sarcastic, or serious? I hope to God that it is the first one. :-(

I'm totally serious. I don't wear sunglasses while watching video, I am afraid.

[kg0208]

SRR is a slight bit overrated at MW. He is not the best MW of all time and there are a few ATG MW that could certainly beat him there.

This isn't the WW version of SRR we are talking about here.

[Amsterdam]

I've done this often, Ray stands a big chance, it has nothing to do with watching their names and thinking they will be great. Stanley Ketchell looks awful from what I've seen, as do some other fighters meant to be considered the best, but a lot of time it has more to do with how effective you are than how good you look.

Which in Ray's case I don't get at all as Ray was awesome to watch as well and awesome on film. Anything above 160 I take Jones, but at 160 I take Ray 3/5.

If you say so. Jones was beatable at his best, don't get me wrong, but not by a primitive era crop of fighters.

Picking Ray over Jones is forgivable to a point because boxing fans are jaded, but picking Greb over Jones is more absurd than anything that my eccentric account posts on here.

[Amsterdam]

SRR is a slight bit overrated at MW. He is not the best MW of all time and there are a few ATG MW that could certainly beat him there.

This isn't the WW version of SRR we are talking about here.

And this is Roy Jones Jr we are talking about here. Roy is your favourite of all time, but you underrate him. He's a top 25 ever even when comparing era/era, and just straight up, he's a top 5 on ability. But you pick Hagler over him, I don't get it. Hagler is not in this league and never handled speed well even at his best...

Why underrate one of the best ever just for the sake of being 'politically correct' to historian cunts?

Would a top 30 WW-LMW today do anything to Jones? That's where Robinson's ability was truly at in comparison to modern fighters.

[kg0208]

And this is Roy Jones Jr we are talking about here. Roy is your favourite of all time, but you underrate him. He's a top 25 ever even when comparing era/era, and just straight up, he's a top 5 on ability. But you pick Hagler over him, I don't get it. Hagler is not in this league and never handled speed well even at his best...

Why underrate one of the best ever just for the sake of being 'politically correct' to historical cunts?

Would a top 30 WW-LMW today do anything to Jones? That's where Robinson's ability was truly at in comparison to modern fighters.

I don't underrate him. I rate him where I feel he rates. Just because you rate him differently doesn't make you correct nor does it mean I am trying to be politically correct. I don't give a damn what you think or anyone else, so I don't pander to any of you. It's ridiculous that posters on this site try to criticize others for not being biased and not being overbearing when they think they are correct. Don't preach to me Amsterdam. Your view of the truth isn't the only view.

Jones is my favorite fighter of all time, and may very well be one of the best fighters ever H2H. My saying he loses to Hagler at 160, arguably the greatest MW of all time surely isn't a slight to Jones.

[Amsterdam]

Did you say Hagler was not in Jones's league?

Ability wise, not resume, obviously. Resume is all you know however.


When did he have problems with speed at his best? We're not talking a past prime Hagler against Leonard, who many thought he beat anyway.


It's a stylistic thing, speed would always trouble him and who's faster than Roy?

He did beat Leonard, but that fight had as much relevance as Winky-B-Hop honestly for it's era. Two old 'p4p' guys cashing out on the senior circuit.

[BITCH ASS]

And this is Roy Jones Jr we are talking about here. Roy is your favourite of all time, but you underrate him. He's a top 25 ever even when comparing era/era, and just straight up, he's a top 5 on ability. But you pick Hagler over him, I don't get it. Hagler is not in this league and never handled speed well even at his best...

Why underrate one of the best ever just for the sake of being 'politically correct' to historian cunts?

Would a top 30 WW-LMW today do anything to Jones? That's where Robinson's ability was truly at in comparison to modern fighters.

Styles.

How would Roy fare under Hagler's relentless pressure?

Roy was no slugger, and definitely wouldn't stand his ground with Hagler, so he would have no choice, but to box.

That's great, and he could do it, but I think that Roy would succumb to Hagler's determination, volume of punches, and hard hitting hands.

Blows to the body would eventually wear Roy down, and then Roy would take some shots to the chin and fall down.

[Rock0052]

SRR is a slight bit overrated at MW. He is not the best MW of all time and there are a few ATG MW that could certainly beat him there.

This isn't the WW version of SRR we are talking about here.

Couldn't sum it up better. Robinson was stretching to make 160, and even with who he beat there, showed he was much more vulnerable. Roy was also naturally a much bigger fighter. I'd pick Jones in this one. The best I could give Robinson is 1 win out of a trilogy if he caught Jones on a lackluster night.

[kg0208]

Why's he overrated at MW? His opposition there was greater than his opposition at WW likely. He lost more, but 15 of his losses came past the age of 35, when he was well past it. His resume at MW is better than Hagler, Monzon, Hopkins, etc. Greb is the only one who outdoes him in terms of resume, and a lot of those fights were over the 160 limit.

Because he is overrated at MW. I don't care WHY he lost at MW. The fact is he lost. And the guys he beat at MW were not better than Jones and his resume there isn't relevant since Jones would have IMO beaten them anyways.

Robinson is NOT the best MW of all time. He is signifigantly smaller than Jones and the assets that allowed him to beat the MW of his time would be nullified by Jones. He wouldn't have any real advantages.

[BITCH ASS]

Ability wise, not resume, obviously. Resume is all you know however.



It's a stylistic thing, speed would always trouble him and who's faster than Roy?

He did beat Leonard, but that fight had as much relevance as Winky-B-Hop honestly for it's era. Two old 'p4p' guys cashing out on the senior circuit.

Those body shots would take Roy's speed away.

[Amsterdam]

I don't underrate him. I rate him where I feel he rates. Just because you rate him differently doesn't make you correct nor does it mean I am trying to be politically correct.

Sure, but let me ask you - Do you watch full fights of Ray Robinson at MW?

Not just the clips, but full fights. If you do, then fine, but most people don't and I've only watched a few here and there.


I don't give a damn what you think or anyone else, so I don't pander to any of you. It's ridiculous that posters on this site try to criticize others for not being biased and not being overbearing when they think they are correct. Don't preach to me Amsterdam. Your view of the truth isn't the only view.


It's good to try to seek the truth.


Jones is my favorite fighter of all time, and may very well be one of the best fighters ever H2H. My saying he loses to Hagler at 160, arguably the greatest MW of all time surely isn't a slight to Jones.


Even if Hagler is the best at 160 ever, that doesn't mean he has much of a chance against his ultimate stylistic nightmare, especially when he's heavily vulnerable to speed and quick hands. Jones fought cautious always, even against Toney, he'd have owned Hagler worse so because Hagler was easier to hit and about the same speed as Toney, but less reflexive.

I don't even like Jones, but he is sickeningly underrated and the fact that this thread was even made showcases it and the fact that some people pick old timer Robinson over him is an even larger showcase of how low Jones is rated for what he did.

[kg0208]

Styles.

How would Roy fare under Hagler's relentless pressure?

Roy was no slugger, and definitely wouldn't stand his ground with Hagler, so he would have no choice, but to box.

That's great, and he could do it, but I think that Roy would succumb to Hagler's determination, volume of punches, and hard hitting hands.

Blows to the body would eventually wear Roy down, and then Roy would take some shots to the chin and fall down.

Hagler could not and would not KO Jones. You need to keep it relevant to 160 Jones, not 175 Jones who was fighting larger men and got KO'd past his prime.

Jones is a lot stronger than you give him credit for. And he hit harder than Hagler. Hagler would win IMO because of his tenacity and workrate, but he would not KO Jones.

[Amsterdam]

Because he is overrated at MW. I don't care WHY he lost at MW. The fact is he lost. And the guys he beat at MW were not better than Jones and his resume there isn't relevant since Jones would have IMO beaten them anyways.

Robinson is NOT the best MW of all time. He is signifigantly smaller than Jones and the assets that allowed him to beat the MW of his time would be nullified by Jones. He wouldn't have any real advantages.

There you go.:good

[Amsterdam]

Those body shots would take Roy's speed away.

Roy is 3-4x as fast, how does Ray land anything? Ray's timing is not even on Roy's level and Ray will be tagged at will.

Like I said, I'd be suprised if it lasted a round. About like Roy against any top 30 modern WW-LMW level fighter.

[kg0208]

Sure, but let me ask you - Do you watch full fights of Ray Robinson at MW?

Not just the clips, but full fights. If you do, then fine, but most people don't and I've only watched a few here and there.



It's good to try to seek the truth.



Even if Hagler is the best at 160 ever, that doesn't mean he has much of a chance against his ultimate stylistic nightmare, especially when he's heavily vulnerable to speed and quick hands. Jones fought cautious always, even against Toney, he'd have owned Hagler worse so because Hagler was easier to hit and about the same speed as Toney, but less reflexive.

I don't even like Jones, but he is sickeningly underrated and the fact that this thread was even made showcases it and the fact that some people pick old timer Robinson over him is an even larger showcase of how low Jones is rated for what he did.

I have seen full fights of SRR at MW. But I picked Jones in this matchup, so I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

[BITCH ASS]

Hagler could not and would not KO Jones. You need to keep it relevant to 160 Jones, not 175 Jones who was fighting larger men and got KO'd past his prime.

Jones is a lot stronger than you give him credit for. And he hit harder than Hagler. Hagler would win IMO because of his tenacity and workrate, but he would not KO Jones.

I'm not sure if I'm basing this on Jones's chin.

Jones wasn't tested by a style that truly bothered him until he was past his prime.

You may site Toney, but Toney isn't a pressure fighter.

Toney is most comfortable as a counterpuncher, and when you're as accurate, as fast, and as versatile as Jones, (who was better than Toney at all of those), you may have to adapt your style to beat your opponent.

Hagler would hunt Jones down all night, and Jones was fast and hit hard, but Hagler had a hell of a chin, and would stick to Jones like flies on shit.

[Amsterdam]

Styles.

How would Roy fare under Hagler's relentless pressure?

Roy was no slugger, and definitely wouldn't stand his ground with Hagler, so he would have no choice, but to box.

That's great, and he could do it, but I think that Roy would succumb to Hagler's determination, volume of punches, and hard hitting hands.

Blows to the body would eventually wear Roy down, and then Roy would take some shots to the chin and fall down.

Hagler wouldn't land at a frequent rate and would eat too many shots.

'Manassa' is more versed on Hagler's details, take it up with him...

[BITCH ASS]

Roy is 3-4x as fast, how does Ray land anything? Ray's timing is not even on Roy's level and Ray will be tagged at will.

Like I said, I'd be suprised if it lasted a round. About like Roy against any top 30 modern WW-LMW level fighter.

Timing and speed?

You can't really base this on the film you watched of Robinson.

Think about how choppy the footage is.

When concerning fighters of past, sometimes you have to be there to really so how effective they were.

You can't look past boxing historian's opinions.

While some of them tend to be slightly biased, they are the only ones that actually saw the fighters fight and can compare them to contemporary fighters.

[Amsterdam]

I have seen full fights of SRR at MW. But I picked Jones in this matchup, so I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

It has everything to do with it. If you've watched the full fights, then you've probably noticed how guys of that era were not on the level that we are talking about with Jones.

So to even suggest that Ray has much of a shot against the 160 Jones is giving too much credit, or just fear of backlash, to the historian jokers on this website that believe Jack Dempsey can compete with Wlad Klitschko.

I simply do not care about them, I see Ray and his opponents for where they stand an I am sure you do also.

There is no need for simply 'I pick Jones', as if it's anywhere remotely in the region of a toss up, when we damn well know that it is Roy Jones without any problem what so ever, just like Roy Jones Jr against a top 30 level WW-LMW at his best, who would pick against Roy there?

It's not preaching, it's analysis of the situation at hand.

[BITCH ASS]

Hagler wouldn't land at a frequent rate and would eat too many shots.

'Manassa' is more versed on Hagler's details, take it up with him...

In the beggining, I agree that Jones would make Hagler look like an old man, but eventually, inevitably, Hagler would come on strong and Jones would start looking more and more vulnerable.

Honestly, while I would favor Hagler, this is a fight that could go either way.

Jones may win a decision by keeping Hagler at range.

[kg0208]

I'm not sure if I'm basing this on Jones's chin.

Jones wasn't tested by a style that truly bothered him until he was past his prime.

You may site Toney, but Toney isn't a pressure fighter.

Toney is most comfortable as a counterpuncher, and when you're as accurate, as fast, and as versatile as Jones, (who was better than Toney at all of those), you may have to adapt your style to beat your opponent.

Hagler would hunt Jones down all night, and Jones was fast and hit hard, but Hagler had a hell of a chin, and would stick to Jones like flies on shit.

Sure he was, Griffin pressured Jones. Griffin is not on Hagler's level obviously, but he had more size that Hagler and that is what was effective against Jones, until Jones figured him out.

Jones couldn't KO Hagler. He couldn't KO Toney either....but he can make him gunshy. Hagler could smother Jones and simply win a war of attrition. Which is what I would pick him to do.....any other type of fight, Jones beats Hagler as well.

[Amsterdam]

Timing and speed?


Jones light years ahead, maybe more.


You can't really base this on the film you watched of Robinson.


Yes I can, it's solid enough to see the necessities.


Think about how choppy the footage is.


That's more so the 30's and early 40's.


When concerning fighters of past, sometimes you have to be there to really so how effective they were.


Sure.


You can't look past boxing historian's opinions.


I don't, they're all clueless. Just like 'political analysts' by profession.


While some of them tend to be slightly biased, they are the only ones that actually saw the fighters fight and can compare them to contemporary fighters.


Yes, they saw it in that era, when they knew no better. This was the best of their era, why would they not have fond memories?

[Amsterdam]

Sure he was, Griffin pressured Jones. Griffin is not on Hagler's level obviously, but he had more size that Hagler and that is what was effective against Jones, until Jones figured him out.

Jones couldn't KO Hagler. He couldn't KO Toney either....but he can make him gunshy. Hagler could smother Jones and simply win a war of attrition. Which is what I would pick him to do.....any other type of fight, Jones beats Hagler as well.

Hmm, I'm not so sure that Jones can't KO Hagler. Speed/power is a good combo, it would take some serious breaking of him down, but I think he'd get a stoppage.

At 168 especially. Toney's chin may be better than Haglers overall.

[kg0208]

He lost when past his prime, way past his prime, that's like saying Armstrong or whoever lost to lesser fighters when not in their prime are overrated at said weight. In his prime at MW he was among the very best ever, as was his resume. And did you just say the guys on his resume aren't better than the guys Jones beat at MW? Just making sure.

Robinson at MW, 5'11, 160. Jones at MW, 5'11, 160. This is at 160, not at 168 or wherever, so Jones size advantage doesn't come into play.

Umm no, I said the guys SRR beat at 160 were not better than Jones. Not the guys he fought.

In his prime, SRR fought MWs while weighing 147.

And yes, Jones size advantage comes into play, because SRR was not a full sized MW, often fighting in the mid 150's. He was not coming down to make weight, and he was not a natural MW.

[BITCH ASS]

Jones light years ahead, maybe more.



Yes I can, it's solid enough to see the necessities.



That's more so the 30's and early 40's.



Sure.



I don't, they're all clueless. Just like 'political analysts' by profession.



Yes, they saw it in that era, when they knew no better. This was the best of their era, why would they not have fond memories?

I really don't understand why you rate modern fighters so highly.

What differenciates them?

Old school fighters arguably, depending on the era, had more to fight for, more to prove.

Honestly, I believe they were harder.

A lot of guys today, despite their modern training techniques, (lifting weights?), lack the tenacity to compete with fighters of the past.

They don't have that inner drive and toughness that was so common in fighters from the past.

So, I just don't see how you can underrate fighters from that era, especially when you're calling Robinson a top 30 WW in this era, when he's widely regarded as the best of all time.

Who at welterweight today could beat Robinson?

[Amsterdam]

I really don't understand why you rate modern fighters so highly.

What differenciates them?

Old school fighters arguably, depending on the era, had more to fight for, more to prove.

Honestly, I believe they were harder.

A lot of guys today, despite their modern training techniques, (lifting weights?), lack the tenacity to compete with fighters of the past.

They don't have that inner drive and toughness that was so common in fighters from the past.

So, I just don't see how you can underrate fighters from that era, especially when you're calling Robinson a top 30 WW in this era, when he's widely regarded as the best of all time.

Who at welterweight today could beat Robinson?

Go over to Boxrec, check WW ratings, 90% of those on the first page.:good

[kg0208]

It has everything to do with it. If you've watched the full fights, then you've probably noticed how guys of that era were not on the level that we are talking about with Jones.

So to even suggest that Ray has much of a shot against the 160 Jones is giving too much credit, or just fear of backlash, to the historian jokers on this website that believe Jack Dempsey can compete with Wlad Klitschko.

I simply do not care about them, I see Ray and his opponents for where they stand an I am sure you do also.

There is no need for simply 'I pick Jones', as if it's anywhere remotely in the region of a toss up, when we damn well know that it is Roy Jones without any problem what so ever, just like Roy Jones Jr against a top 30 level WW-LMW at his best, who would pick against Roy there?

It's not preaching, it's analysis of the situation at hand.

It is preaching. You are trying to give me advice (again) on and show me the light. There is no light. I don't agree with your assessment of past fighters and their talent level.

And I pick Jones because of what he brought to the ring. I don't care about the historians on this site or any other. Assuming that I do is a leap you have made on your own.

[Amsterdam]

It is preaching. You are trying to give me advice (again) on and show me the light. There is no light. I don't agree with your assessment of past fighters and their talent level.


How about a thread with video's?

Harry Greb is a rated top 5 MW, do you want to see him play patty cake in sparring? Or let's take Louis for example, there are some atrocious factors that everyone can see if they want to see it.

It has nothing to do with opinion, more so fact in comparison to all around boxing ability.

For example, if I said that Jones has faster hands than Kelly Pavlik, is this fact or opinion?:think



And I pick Jones because of what he brought to the ring. I don't care about the historians on this site or any other. Assuming that I do is a leap you have made on your own.


You can't deal with historians, it's as bad as Pacquaio fans, but they are more well read of course and speak competent english.

[Amsterdam]

Jones has 0% chance of KO'ing Hagler. Not even a slight chance, not even any at all. It is IMPOSSIBLE.

That boggles my mind that you would even suggest it.

Now see....

You all say you hate how I state things as if they are FACTS...

Yet you say 0% chance, 'impossible' that Jones KO's Hagler, you are starting it as if it is a fact.

I disagree, I think Jones has a well shot at doing so and I didn't say it like it was a fact, because in this scenerio, it is an opinion since Hagler has a proven great chin and the opinion is just coming from fantasy analysis.

[kg0208]

How about a thread with video's?

Harry Greb is a rated top 5 MW, do you want to see him play patty cake in sparring? Or let's take Louis for example, there are some atrocious factors that everyone can see if they want to see it.

It has nothing to do with opinion, more so fact in comparison to all around boxing ability.

For example, if I said that Jones has faster hands than Kelly Pavlik, is this fact or opinion?:think




You can't deal with historians, it's as bad as Pacquaio fans, but they are more well read of course and speak competent english.

Your comparison is fine. Your opinion of it is not the only opinion of the comparison.

[BITCH ASS]

Go over to Boxrec, check WW ratings, 90% of those on the first page.:good

Cotto?

No way, Robinson would kill Cotto coming in with straight right hands, and blast Cotto with uppercuts.

Robinson had a hell of an arsenal, was taller and rangier than Cotto, faster, and hit harder, especially from distance.

Cintron?

Cintron is a good welterweight, and may eventually become the lineal champ, but he's not fast and slick enough to beat a guy like Robinson. He doesn't have any physical advantages over the guy. And from what we've seen, his heart is still questionable.

We'll see how his fight with Margarito pans out.

Clottey?

Clottey would be outboxed. Plain and simple.

Floyd?

Robinson would do what Oscar didn't, and pressure Floyd from start to finish, often leading with his right hand, and landing brutal left hooks and left uppercuts as Floyd turns to his right.

And if Robinson jabbed, he would be more effective than Oscar because Floyd would have much more trouble countering Ray's jab with his right because of the difference in speed between Oscar and Ray.

Who else?

Paul Williams. Dude is a freak, and this would be a difficult fight for Robinson. Honestly, Paul would be a difficult fight for any welterweight in history, but chances are, Robinson's power and heart would be the difference maker.

Who else?

Margarito? Robinson would do what Cintron couldn't, and destroy Margarito coming in with straight right shots and good footwork.

Mosley?

Too small.

[Amsterdam]

Your comparison is fine. Your opinion of it is not the only opinion of the comparison.

Then why can't we get it all mutual, if it means meeting in the middle somewhere. It doesn't matter, just picking Louis over Wlad is as sickening as anything ever done.

Well, not really. Sven Ottke's whole run was the worst.:D

[Amsterdam]

Of all the fighters in history, Hagler was probably the most unstoppable, due to his titanium chin, heart, and skills. It's not like he just has a great chin and lesser skills like LaMotta, he also had fantastic skills of his own, along with his great chin. If anybody that Roy Jones fought went the distance with him(none of whom were as good as Hagler) than I see no way he KO's Hagler. This fight IMO would look like a closer version of Jones/Hopkins.

It would be a TKO accumulation style stoppage, maybe from damage even. Not a straight KO 10 count.

Is this not possible at all? At 168?

[Amsterdam]

No. But we're still talking about 160, as Hagler never fought at 168. If he couldn't come close to finishing Hopkins or Toney, and Hagler would certainly be A LOT more active and forcing the issue than Toney was, than I see no way he stops him. Jones would be forced to stick and move and use his movement all night, no way he stops him doing that.

He is more active, but gets hit a lot more. Jones is more capable than you think at unleashing combinations while moving.

[McGrain]

This is a joke.

RJJ in 1.


The fighter who could catch and KO SRR in one round has not been born.

[Pimp C]

RJJ by UD:deal

[Amsterdam]

But not neccessarily powerful ones, and even if so, not nearly powerful enough to hurt Hagler.

As the fight goes on and a guy just keeps getting tagged and tagged, accumulation starts to create effects and damage. This is how I am saying RJJ could win by stoppage.

[Amsterdam]

Hagler would not just be coming forward getting tagged while doing no damage, you're making it seem like he's a skill-less, crude brawler, when in fact he was one of the most skilled fighters of all time, so no, I see no way that could happen.

He was far from a skilless brawler SP. But he is not one of the most skilled off all time, not like say on pure skill, Thomas Hearns or Pernell Whitaker, who really have the pure skills down. Hagler was a very skilled fighter who was also full of great intangibles and in my opinion, the intangibles were his best assetts.

I could see it happen. If RJJ could tattoo Toney pretty nicely when he wanted, he could do it to Hagler at 168 also and at 160 for that matter and the damage may add up enough to lead to a stoppage.

I'm thinking Roy in 10.

[BITCH ASS]

He was far from a skilless brawler SP. But he is not one of the most skilled off all time, not like say on pure skill, Thomas Hearns or Pernell Whitaker, who really have the pure skills down. Hagler was a very skilled fighter who was also full of great intangibles and in my opinion, the intangibles were his best assetts.

I could see it happen. If RJJ could tattoo Toney pretty nicely when he wanted, he could do it to Hagler at 168 also and at 160 for that matter and the damage may add up enough to lead to a stoppage.

I'm thinking Roy in 10.

Comparing Toney to Hagler is a bad analysis.

Toney is a natural counterpuncher, while Hagler's defense is his offense.

[BITCH ASS]

Toney was nothing like Hagler, was way too stationary, was a counter-puncher, and didn't press the fight at all. Hagler could put a Glen Johnson on Roy for all we know. I'd honestly say that's a lot more likely than Jones stopping Hagler once in 1 million fights, literally.

:good

You beat me too it.

[Amsterdam]

Toney was nothing like Hagler, was way too stationary, was a counter-puncher, and didn't press the fight at all. Hagler could put a Glen Johnson on Roy for all we know. I'd honestly say that's a lot more likely than Jones stopping Hagler once in 1 million fights, literally.

I know Toney was more stationary, also shells up naturally when attacked. My point was that Roy had the timing to bomb him when he wanted to get aggressive and to bomb him very well.

Hagler is too slow by a little bit to not get bombed frequently and Jones could punch pretty well.

[McGrain]

If you're talking about a peak Hagler, the weight-drained version of Toney is an almost usless comparison.

[Amsterdam]

If you're talking about a peak Hagler, the weight-drained version of Toney is an almost usless comparison.

Not entirely.

[BITCH ASS]

I know Toney was more stationary, also shells up naturally when attacked. My point was that Roy had the timing to bomb him when he wanted to get aggressive and to bomb him very well.

Hagler is too slow by a little bit to not get bombed frequently and Jones could punch pretty well.

But a pursuing opponent who's best defense is his offense, will throw that timing off.

It's styles.

[Thread Stealer]

Even if Hagler is the best at 160 ever, that doesn't mean he has much of a chance against his ultimate stylistic nightmare, especially when he's heavily vulnerable to speed and quick hands. Jones fought cautious always, even against Toney, he'd have owned Hagler worse so because Hagler was easier to hit and about the same speed as Toney, but less reflexive.


Hagler is more effective coming forward than Toney. Both were excellent counter-punchers, but as Hagler showed against Hearns, he could throw caution to the wind against a taller/rangier opponent with great outside boxing skills and brawl it out with him, and do a great job of it.

Hagler might be best off against Roy fighting like he did versus Tommy and being more aggressive and throwing caution to the wind, then how he usually fought, being more patient and boxing behind the jab. That gives Roy more time to use the ring, set up, and use his ridiculously fast hands and reflexes.

[ripcity]

Why not study some tape of both from an unbiased point of view.

In your mind, think of one as exhibit#1 and the other as exhibit#2.

Watch a few full fights of #1 and #2 at MW, forget they are SRR and Roy Jones, then you will see who is superior, watch two MEN not two 'legendary NAMES'.

Give it a shot mate, you'll see Ray stands no chance.
I've seen tapes of both. They are both incredebly fast and have amazing offensives. Robinson however is a lot more experienced and that gives him an edge over Jones.

[SgrRyLeonard]

Above Middleweight, I agree Jones' combination of speed, size, and power could be too much for even Robinson to overcome. At middleweight however, Robinson would be comparable in speed (Jones a bit faster due to Robinson having to put on extra weight which would slow him down just a bit) but there is no way Jones vastly outspeeds Robinson. I've seen film of Robinson where you couldn't follow his punches they were so fast, and I'm not exxagerating either. He would be most likely superior in power considering he's knocked out iron chinned middleweights (Lamotta and Fullmer) and when he knocked out Fullmer it was with one punch while moving backwards. He's a better technical fighter than Jones who relied more on speed and reflexes and could make Jones pay for any mistakes. Also he was a much more experienced fighter at his middleweight peak than Jones was during HIS middleweight peak. Robinson also fought and beat more ATG middleweights in history than Jones fought. While Jones would give ANY Middleweight ATG problems, Robinson is one of the few who could beat him.

[Amsterdam]

:canada