Librado Andrade vs. Kelly Pavlik @ 168.

[Amsterdam]

I've seen some recent comparisons between both guys and this seems like a good match for a slugfest. I think Andrade would outlast him as he can take just about anything and is still throwing the same workrate at the same speed late in the fight...

Maybe the weight jump from Pavlik would increase his stamina and he'd be able to box a little more. He also took Miranda's bombs, even if shooken up a bit.

The main question is can Pavlik dent Andrade's jaw, if so then we have a slugest that will go back and forth.

Andrade TKO 5 from me.

[brooklyn1550]

Pavlik by UD - Technically better, has the chin to take Andrade's shots, throws the straighter punches. I think he would best be suited using his jab, moving, and throwing combinations off the jab.

[Amsterdam]

Pavlik by UD - Technically better, has the chin to take Andrade's shots, throws the straighter punches

The interesting factor is the pace that the bout is going to be at, Pavlik's stamina is the big question from my end because he slowed in the Miranda fight. Andrade will not slow.

But Pavlik can use his height and reach to stick and move instead of slugging it out and carry round.

Is this not a good match up? Someone else mentioned Miranda-Andrade, Miranda didn't show any ability to fight backing up, don't see it too competitive off of that.

Andrade will be fighting Yusaf Mack next, a semi-known name, so if he wins by KO he'll be back within the top 10 and maybe we'll see some more matches.

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam, how about Taylor versus Andrade? Which round does Andrade stop him in, two? maybe three?

Probably 4.:good

Taylor doesn't have Pavlik's ability to take a shot and pressure totally does a number on him.

[IntentionalButt]

Amsterdam, how about Taylor versus Andrade? Which round does Andrade stop him in, two? maybe three?

I'd be stunned if Jermain made it out of the first. Moving up is going to prove the most ill-advised choice of his career. :good

[brooklyn1550]

How about Jeff Lacy vs. Librado Andrade?

[Amsterdam]

How about Jeff Lacy vs. Librado Andrade?

:think

Lacy has the better technical skill, but Andrade's ability to last as stated above will be dangerous in say round 8 if Lacy begins to fade.

Andrade's reach also serves him.

You know, I'd probably take Andrade at this point, but would have taken Lacy pre-2006.

[Toopretty]

:patsch

Andrade has an iron chin and stamina..besides that he is wild and has no balance and just punches...Pavlik would disect him and Pavlik has more power then some damned Kessler and you dumb UK and Danish posters fail to realize..Pavlik has dynamite in both hands...and throws a mean str8 right hand.....Boxings retarded to the highest order.

[brooklyn1550]

:think

Lacy has the better technical skill, but Andrade's ability to last as stated above will be dangerous in say round 8 if Lacy begins to fade.

Andrade's reach also serves him.

You know, I'd probably take Andrade at this point, but would have taken Lacy pre-2006.

Agreed...I would take Andrade now because I'm not sure how Lacy will perform following all the time off and his injuries.

[Amsterdam]

Agreed...I would take Andrade now because I'm not sure how Lacy will perform following all the time off and his injuries.

I think Andrade can beat Bute as a matter of fact. I tend to see potential in him because he has crazy intangibles, such as long arms, power, titanium jaw and workrate with endless stamina...

Say he improved a lot, he'd be a real force.

If you run out of stamina against Librado and aren't a competent defensive fighter, I feel you're in for it, that'd be the current Jeff Lacy.

[Amsterdam]

:patsch

Andrade has an iron chin and stamina..besides that he is wild and has no balance and just punches...Pavlik would disect him and Pavlik has more power then some damned Kessler and you dumb UK and Danish posters fail to realize..Pavlik has dynamite in both hands...and throws a mean str8 right hand.....Boxings retarded to the highest order.

Did you know that Mikkel Kessler likely would have cut Miranda down in 1 round?

He has way faster hands, sharper shots and is a bigger man than Pavlik. Accuracy makes for the power difference and he'd have landed pin points on Miranda at will, I see it as a TKO 1 scenerio for Mikkel.

It took Pavlik 7 rounds. Although, this is just my opinion from analysing all of these guys.

[DanePugilist]

Agreed...I would take Andrade now because I'm not sure how Lacy will perform following all the time off and his injuries... And we still don't know how well he has shaken off the beatdown he received vs JC. Lesser men have been broken beyond recognition through time. He does seem strong of will, but nothing proves it thus far.

[DanePugilist]

Pavlik can't stop Andrade, but can Andrade stop Pavlik? If it goes to pts I think that Pavlik might win - then again - How well would he handle constant pressure?

[Amsterdam]

Pavlik does have more pop than Kessler, but not his precision and skill level, nor his handspeed or defence. That's why this is more even.

[DanePugilist]

There were some points in the Kessler/Andrade fight where I thought the ref or even Andrade's corner might stop it, especially in the late rounds when it seemed utterly hopeless for Andrade. Although he never really seemed hurt, no man should take that many consistent blows to the head.. I mean.. Andrade was gettin nailed by some MONSTER hits.

I know we all love Andrade, because of his iron chin and great heart.. but he's a punching bag.. the guy doesn't have much skills and Pavlik just might tag this guy enough for the ref/corner to be forced to stop it late. I actually think Pavlik might have more pop than Kessler.Kessler reduced Andrade to a punching bag because of the pace of the game. None other have done this.

Lets say that Pavlik carries the same power to SMW - can he stop Andrade? I doubt it, he must do it by great amount of bodywork, and we still don't know if that will stop Andrade. Pavlik couldn't KO Echols. Andrades chin>Echols.

[cardstars]

Pavlik by decision. Easy decision at that. His skill is double that of Andrades with the same great chin

[van the man]

:patsch

Andrade has an iron chin and stamina..besides that he is wild and has no balance and just punches...Pavlik would disect him and Pavlik has more power then some damned Kessler and you dumb UK and Danish posters fail to realize..Pavlik has dynamite in both hands...and throws a mean str8 right hand.....Boxings retarded to the highest order.

u seem to forget that pavlik isnt exactly known for his great defence skills and that might cost him a lot of punishment against a hard hittin andrade who will come forward for all 12 rounds(if he dont floor pavlik before time)

[TanstA]

I think Pavlik has more power and a better straight than Kessler so I would say he would TKO him but it would take alot out of Pavlik cause Andrade has the chin of Gorilla.

[THN]

I'll go for Andrade, actually I think he would cause problems for most fighters at 168. Look how Kessler almost took he's head clean, of and he just took it and throwing back no stop. He's a monster!

[ThePlugInBabies]

the difference between kessler and pavlik in the power department, isnt that big..

nonsense, pavlik has far more power than kessler, kesslers power is way overrated on esb right now. but apart from that, he'd completely school pavlik.

[ThePlugInBabies]

say what.. pavlik has FAR more power.. do you watch boxing or are you more into blocky´s version of pillow fighting.?:yep

pavlik is a monster hitter, kessler has decent pop, better than calzaghe, but he's no massive ko merchant.

[Fat Tony]

pavlik is a monster hitter, kessler has decent pop, better than calzaghe, but he's no massive ko merchant.

I don't think Pavlik is a monster hitter like Abraham.

[IntentionalButt]

What sturdy chins has Kelly cracked at 168? :think

[Fat Tony]

Pavlik hits quite a lot harder than Abraham, if you ask me.

I disagree. Pavlik wins head to head but Abraham is the bigger hitter.

[boxfan99]

Pavlik hits quite a lot harder than Abraham, if you ask me.

I disagree too, Abraham is the harder hitter of the two. I don't really know who I would favour if they fought though.:huh

But I think Pavlik would outclass Andrade.

[El Bombasto]

i think pavlik takes a pretty easy ud

[Quik]

If it gets into a brawl, i think andrade will exhaust pavlik and that his corner will throw the towel arround the 10th if it is a 12 rds fight. Otherwise i think pavlik will be able to last until the end and win by UD since i think he would win the first rounds.

[BITCH ASS]

This is easily one of your worst predictions.

I mean, it definitely doesn't stack up to your, SRR would only be a top 30 WW today, but it's still up there.

Pavlik would most likely KO Andrade.

Pavlik punches harder than Kessler, and Andrade just took a hell of a beating from Kessler and he probably left something in the ring.

What is your justification for this kind of prediction?

[BITCH ASS]

If it gets into a brawl, i think andrade will exhaust pavlik and that his corner will throw the towel arround the 10th if it is a 12 rds fight. Otherwise i think pavlik will be able to last until the end and win by UD since i think he would win the first rounds.

Exhaust Pavlik?

Pavlik DOES throw 100 punches a round.

[BITCH ASS]

The interesting factor is the pace that the bout is going to be at, Pavlik's stamina is the big question from my end because he slowed in the Miranda fight. Andrade will not slow.

But Pavlik can use his height and reach to stick and move instead of slugging it out and carry round.

Is this not a good match up? Someone else mentioned Miranda-Andrade, Miranda didn't show any ability to fight backing up, don't see it too competitive off of that.

Andrade will be fighting Yusaf Mack next, a semi-known name, so if he wins by KO he'll be back within the top 10 and maybe we'll see some more matches.

How the fuck is his stamina in question?

Pavlik slowed?

Are you kidding me?

[JETSKI]

:think

Lacy has the better technical skill, but Andrade's ability to last as stated above will be dangerous in say round 8 if Lacy begins to fade.

Andrade's reach also serves him.

You know, I'd probably take Andrade at this point, but would have taken Lacy pre-2006.

Lacy has "technical skills"???

Where? His looping haymaker of a right hand is just how it done in the boxing manual.

:yep

[IntentionalButt]

What sturdy chins has Kelly cracked at 168? :think

co-sign

[BITCH ASS]

co-sign

Pretty soon, regardless of the outcome with his fight with Taylor, you will see Kessler on that list.

[IntentionalButt]

Pretty soon, regardless of the outcome with his fight with Taylor, you will see Kessler on that list.
I'm not talking about supposition, there's been enough of that in this thread, and regarding Pavlik at 168 in general. So far, in the real world, what cold hard empirical evidence tells us that Pavlik carries serious KO power at the elite level to SMW?




























do i hear crickets?

[BITCH ASS]

I'm not talking about supposition, there's been enough of that in this thread, and regarding Pavlik at 168 in general. So far, in the real world, what cold hard empirical evidence tells us that Pavlik carries serious KO power at the elite level to SMW?




























do i hear crickets?

Well, he's a huge middleweight and knocks people out while they're standing up.

If anything, he'll at least be able to knock people out the regular way at 168.

[IntentionalButt]

Well, he's a huge middleweight and knocks people out while they're standing up.

If anything, he'll at least be able to knock people out the regular way at 168.

Journeymen, yeah. But top guys? I'm not saying he couldn't, but you know full well that is guesswork and nothing more. He could just as likely lose the power as carry it with him. To say authoritatively that he definitely has more KO power than Kessler at 168 when he's not yet in the present tense ever fought, let alone hurt, an elite level guy at 168...is silly. We just don't know that yet.

To say that he will likely be a force at 168 after his inevitable shellacking of Taylor, is perfectly acceptable. To claim definitively that he's a top puncher in a division he isn't currently even in, isn't.

[tpuz]

the difference between kessler and pavlik in the power department, isnt that big..

what made andrade look bad, was kesslers movement and his ability to box circles around him.

pavlik doesnt have the talent to do this, his only option, is as always to try and walk straight through his opponents.. that maybe possible at mw, where he fights smaller guys, but that surely aint happening at smw with the bigger ones. pavlik is rather slow, wants to trade, and for me, this would be exactly the style, that andrade would like.

andrade is taller and has one hell of a reach advantage,he is bigger and much more strong, then any of the fighters pavlik has faced yet. and by some distance..!

so this wouldnt be a walk in the park for anyone of the fighters.

what pavlik did to mirande, andrade would do as well, had andrade fought miranda, he would have recieven the hype instead of pavlik.

i gotta agree with amsterdam, what andrade brings to the table would for a slow-normal speed fighters cause problems..

andrade would wear pavlik down, in what would be one hell of a war.You've obviously only seen one of Pavlik's fights. His gameplan vs. Miranda was to bully him and that's exactly what he did, but that doesn't mean that is the only way he fights. You will see when he fights Taylor that he can box too. And forget about wearing him down, he has tremendous stamina and his punches are just as crisp and powerful in the later rounds as they are in the 1st.

[tpuz]

Lacy has "technical skills"???

Where? His looping haymaker of a right hand is just how it done in the boxing manual.

:yepHe just makes comments like that to make his boy, Calzaghe, look better.

[tpuz]

What sturdy chins has Kelly cracked at 168? :thinkUmmm, Kelly is a middleweight.

[dwilson]

Pavlik is looking like a top future contender once his people tie a title fight down for him. He is a good size for a middle and will prob move to 168 in the future (all going well) while Libardo is just a decent B-level guy. I would like to see the fight but I can not see past Pavlik winning.

[IntentionalButt]

Ummm, Kelly is a middleweight.

Ummm, exactly. :good

[JETSKI]

He just makes comments like that to make his boy, Calzaghe, look better.

Kelly would wade through all those bitch slaps of Calzaghe's & knock his ass out, too.

[Fat Tony]

Kelly would wade through all those bitch slaps of Calzaghe's & knock his ass out, too.

Wow. One good victory over a top10 MW and you think he'll knock the #1 at SMW out?

Ever recognized the difference in speed, especially hand speed?

[Amsterdam]

Lacy has "technical skills"???

Where? His looping haymaker of a right hand is just how it done in the boxing manual.

:yep

Yes he does, and we were comparing to Andrade's skill no?

I didn't say elite level P4P skills, I said 'techical skill' clearly in relation to being more technically sound to Librado Andrade. Lacy lacks defensive skills, but offensively he showed skill.

[IntentionalButt]

Ams, I'm throwing down the gauntlet here. Only capfunds has replied to me so far, and never gave me anything concrete.

What basis is there for alot of these comments that Pavlik has (not might have, but has) more pop than Kessler, when he's never been in with, let alone starched, a top 168lb fighter? I'm not saying he won't carry his power...I'm just saying it isn't anywhere near a foregone conclusion that he will. These are baseless statements - speculations, and it's fine to make those if you're calling a spade a spade. If they're not baseless supposition though, if there is hard proof that Kessler can put an elite level SMW out or even down, then by all means put me in my place.

[Amsterdam]

You got it Intentional, these are basless statements that they say like fact, and they HATE the way I say well researched statements like FACT, ironic. Wait until Pav sparks Taylor, they'll go nuts and project all sorts of things that are totally off to where K. Pavlik is.

He may hit harder shot for shot than MK. But I made the point that MK gets it there faster, more precise and with his accuracy, a high volume when he starts opening up.

For example, I'd say Kessler would TKO Miranda in 1. Not on the power scenerio, but just that he's so accurate, so precise and wouldn't get anything back from Miranda like Pavlik did, that in 3 minutes he'd probably finish him off because I feel that the first Kessler combination would stun Miranda. It took Pavlik 7 rounds... he's not in Kessler's class and for anyone to assert that Pavlik has a shot against Kessler...

This is what we're dealing with though. All of my threads have a purpose whether serious, comedic, hater-like or what not, and this has shown common boxing intellect, because I don't feel he'd defeat Andrade even and Capfunds is spouting off that he'd defeat the man that brutally shut Andrade out.

I think everyone agreed that Pavlik/Andrade is at least a contested bout and it sure as hell is when you look at styles and intangibles.

This shows how underrated the SMW-LHW region is and how overrated the MW division is. This has nothing to do with hyping up Joe Calzaghe either, as the medium is MK and Librado Andrade. I can't use LHW's, because these MW's have a longer jump than just 8 pounds up...

[IntentionalButt]

You got it Intentional, these are basless statements that they say like fact, and they HATE the way I say well researched statements like FACT, ironic. Wait until Pav sparks Taylor, they'll go nuts and project all sorts of things that are totally off to where K. Pavlik is.

He may hit harder shot for shot than MK. But I made the point that MK gets it there faster, more precise and with his accuracy, a high volume when he starts opening up.

For example, I'd say Kessler would TKO Miranda in 1. Not on the power scenerio, but just that he's so accurate, so precise and wouldn't get anything back from Miranda like Pavlik did, that in 3 minutes he'd probably finish him off because I feel that the first Kessler combination would stun Miranda. It took Pavlik 7 rounds... he's not in Kessler's class and for anyone to assert that Pavlik has a shot against Kessler...

This is what we're dealing with though. All of my threads have a purpose whether serious, comedic, hater-like or what not, and this has shown common boxing intellect, because I don't feel he'd defeat Andrade even and Capfunds is spouting off that he'd defeat the man that brutally shut Andrade out.

I think everyone agreed that Pavlik/Andrade is at least a contested bout and it sure as hell is when you look at styles and intangibles.

This shows how underrated the SMW-LHW region is and how overrated the MW division is. This has nothing to do with hyping up Joe Calzaghe either, as the medium is MK and Librado Andrade. I can't use LHW's, because these MW's have a longer jump than just 8 pounds up...

:happy:happy

[tpuz]

Ams, I'm throwing down the gauntlet here. Only capfunds has replied to me so far, and never gave me anything concrete.

What basis is there for alot of these comments that Pavlik has (not might have, but has) more pop than Kessler, when he's never been in with, let alone starched, a top 168lb fighter? I'm not saying he won't carry his power...I'm just saying it isn't anywhere near a foregone conclusion that he will. These are baseless statements - speculations, and it's fine to make those if you're calling a spade a spade. If they're not baseless supposition though, if there is hard proof that Kessler can put an elite level SMW out or even down, then by all means put me in my place.Pavlik's promoters have puposely been putting him against fighters with good chins who have never been knocked out before (Zuniga, McCart, Miranda) to see how he will do in the later rounds, but he keeps knocking all of them out. I don't think 8 pounds is going to reduce his power, nor will 8 pounds give someone a stronger chin. He has trmendous knockout power, period. For those who say he's just a brawler, have obviously only seen him fight against brawlers. He is very good at sticking to a game plan based on his opponent. If Taylor decides to box with Pavlik, you will see his boxing skills. I think Kessler would be his stiffest test at 168.