How well will Vitally Klitschko perform

[janitor]

I am offering you the chance to test your theories on an upcoming example of which you don't know the outcome. Vitally will fight McCline soon and if he wins he will likley fight the current WBC champion next.

What will he have lost from his period of inactivity and why?

How far gone will he be from his previous two ring performences?

Might it even benefit him and make him a better fighter than before by alowing his injuries to heal?

[Luigi1985]

During his layout, Vitali always trained and sparred and was in shape, IMO he knew that he want to come back. That´s the big difference here, he didn´t get fat and needs now to take off over 100 lbs or so, I think he swarms all over the overextend McCline and TKO´s him in the midrounds...

[janitor]

During his layout, Vitali always trained and sparred and was in shape, IMO he knew that he want to come back. That´s the big difference here, he didn´t get fat and needs now to take off over 100 lbs or so, I think he swarms all over the overextend McCline and TKO´s him in the midrounds...

So you expect him to be close to his best and a force in the division soon?

[Luigi1985]

So you expect him to be close to his best and a force in the division soon?



Yes, I think so, and McCline is also a bit handpicked, after his complicated injury from the Valuev- fight, at 37 years it´s very hard, I would be surprised if he´s at 60 % now, this fight proves not so much...

[janitor]

Yes, I think so, and McCline is also a bit handpicked, after his complicated injury from the Valuev- fight, at 37 years it´s very hard, I would be surprised if he´s at 60 % now, this fight proves not so much...

And if Vitally fights Peter or Maskaev next?

[Luigi1985]

And if Vitally fights Peter or Maskaev next?


Hard to say, IMO Maskaev would lose, because he can´t take a lot of Vitaly´s punches, Vitaly on the other side can take his punches, here I see a KO- victory for Vitaly. With Peter I would expect a great fight now in 2007, but I slightly favour Samuel, because slowly he reaches his prime now and showed a good performance against Toney in their 2nd encounter (on the other side we aren´t allowed to forget, that Toney lost his next fight normally against a journeyman, he´s totally shot)...


What do you think, Janitor?

[ChrisPontius]

I think he will have declined significantly. Three years is a lot, especially when you're 37. His advantage to some others is that he did stay in shape, but still. Reflexes will have slowed.

But apart from that, i think his biggest weakness (as it has always been) will be injury prone-ness. He's already had tons of fights, also kickboxing and many injuries.
He might win but that would rather be because McCline isn't young anymore either than because he'll be as good as he was. Incidentally, McCline lost his last fight against Valuev on a knee injury. So my prediction for the fight is that either one wins because the other is taken out by an injury. :good

If he beats McCline it's a good performance. If he manages to win another title, it's a great performance. But i don't expect it.

[Luigi1985]

I think he will have declined significantly. Three years is a lot, especially when you're 37. His advantage to some others is that he did stay in shape, but still. Reflexes will have slowed.

But apart from that, i think his biggest weakness (as it has always been) will be injury prone-ness. He's already had tons of fights, also kickboxing and many injuries.
He might win but that would rather be because McCline isn't young anymore either than because he'll be as good as he was. Incidentally, McCline lost his last fight against Valuev on a knee injury. So my prediction for the fight is that either one wins because the other is taken out by an injury. :good

If he beats McCline it's a good performance. If he manages to win another title, it's a great performance. But i don't expect it.


To be honest, I don´t think Vitaly is so stupid to make a comeback if he knows he´s only 50 % he was 3 years before, he has enough money and he wouldn´t hurt his legacy "voluntary"...

[mr. magoo]

What will he have lost from his period of inactivity and why?


Stamina is usually something that a lot of layed off fighters tend to lose a bit of after extended periods of inactivity. Speed is something that he he never had much of to begin with. Vitali is 36 years old now, and hasn't fought since 2004. He will definately have some ring rust, however I'm not sure that Jameel Mccline is the one to exploit it.


How far gone will he be from his previous two ring performences?


It's difficult to determine exactly how much a fighter has deteriorated within a given time frame. Ken Norton for example, went from being a great fighter in 1978 to falling off the edge of the earth in 1980, and that was without even having a layoff.


Might it even benefit him and make him a better fighter than before by alowing his injuries to heal?


Well, I don't know if he'll be any better than he was 3 years ago, however a man is always more formidable when he's healthy and injury free. We'll just have to wait and see.

[ChrisPontius]

To be honest, I don´t think Vitaly is so stupid to make a comeback if he knows he´s only 50 % he was 3 years before, he has enough money and he wouldn´t hurt his legacy "voluntary"...

Hmm, you would say so... but even the greatest fighters retire too late (too much heart). He looked pretty fast and sharp on the heavybag a month ago, but of course that's no guarantee that he'll do good in the ring.

[Duodenum]

One thing that frequently occurs with advancing age is a declining resistance to cuts. That's one thing he may need to be alert to, although there have been methods devised for supposedly increasing the resistance of cuts to facial skin.

Although I have a fondness for the view that age and treachery prevail over youth and skill, I think this comebacker might be better off testing his legs and chin in some kickboxing competition first. If he can still stand up to a kick upside the head, then punches should be less of a problem. If he can still use his legs effectively as a kickboxer, then I'd assume they wouldn't be about to let him down in a straight boxing match.

He'd be coming back in an era when the pussified distance limit of 12 rounds is the rule in boxing, so he wouldn't need the staying power returning old-timers required in a bygone age.

[mr. magoo]

He'd be coming back in an era when the pussified distance limit of 12 rounds is the rule in boxing, so he wouldn't need the staying power returning old-timers required in a bygone age.


Even during the bygone age that you're referring to, fighters only had to go 15 rounds in championship fights. A lot of aging fighters from years past, never made it to a title fight, or for that matter were succussful at going the distance. I don't necessarily think that a mere difference of 3 rounds, defines the modern era as being "pussified". I mean, we're not talking about the early days when fights were scheduled for say 45 rounds, like in the case with Johnson vs Jeffries, and even if they were, fighters would likely pace themselves for such an ordeal, resulting in lower punch production and overall ring movement, leading to a less action packed fight.

Get my drift?

[Duodenum]

Even during the bygone age that you're referring to, fighters only had to go 15 rounds in championship fights. A lot of aging fighters from years past, never made it to a title fight, or for that matter were succussful at going the distance. I don't necessarily think that a mere difference of 3 rounds, defines the modern era as being "pussified". I mean, we're not talking about the early days when fights were scheduled for say 45 rounds, like in the case with Johnson vs Jeffries, and even if they were, fighters would likely pace themselves for such an ordeal, resulting in lower punch production and overall ring movement, leading to a less action packed fight.

Get my drift?I largely turned off to boxing when I saw the reduction from 15 to 12 rounds turn Rosario into a champion for the first time. This was on the heels of the additional three rounds making Chacon a champion for the final time.

I wouldn't be an advocate of matches lasting longer than 15 rounds either, because endurance can then prevail over superior skill. Not much history has been made by contests lasting beyond round 15, but an enormous amount was irretrievably lost to the elimination of rounds 13, 14 and 15. Louis would have lost Conn I, Marciano would have lost Walcott I and Charles I, peak Duran would have been dethroned by Vilomar Fernandez, SRL would have lost Hearns I (and Ray would have stopped Tommy again in their rematch), and so forth.

The 12 round distance rewards inferior conditioning and steroid use.

[Luigi1985]

Hmm, you would say so... but even the greatest fighters retire too late (too much heart). He looked pretty fast and sharp on the heavybag a month ago, but of course that's no guarantee that he'll do good in the ring.

You´re right, he looked pretty sharp, but if he looks so also in the ring is another story... let´s wait and see! :thumbsup


What´s your prediction? My prediction is:

Vitaly Klitschko TKO 7 Jameel McCline

(on points Klitschko ahead)

[mr. magoo]

The 12 round distance rewards inferior conditioning and steroid use


It also impresses upon fighters that they have to get their heads out of their asses earlier and go to work if they're going to take a decision or score a knockout. In years past, a lot of fighters used the awareness of haiving a 15 round window to lure opponents into deeper water before drowning them ala Holmes vs Cooney. A guy can't just sit back and lay low anymore. If you're going to win or defend a title, and only have 12 rounds to do it, then you have to get down to business.

[Duodenum]

It also impresses upon fighters that they have to get their heads out of their asses earlier and go to work if they're going to take a decision or score a knockout. In years past, a lot of fighters used the awareness of haiving a 15 round window to lure opponents into deeper water before drowning them ala Holmes vs Cooney. A guy can't just sit back and lay low anymore. If you're going to win or defend a title, and only have 12 rounds to do it, then you have to get down to business.Then maybe all matches should only be four rounds long, so that Beanfart can become the GOAT.

When Ali dethroned Foreman, it was front page news. When Dempsey fought for the title, the results headlined the New York Times, and he was on the front cover of Time Magazine. The outcome of the 12 round era is a blank page on Yahoo Boxing News today. It's become a niche interest, like goat polo and female midget wrestling. Gone are the days when Larry Holmes could get a national commercial endorsement for KFC, or Duran and SRL for Seven-Up, or Hagler guesting on SNL. Boxing doesn't register in the cultural mainstream anymore, and the decline in prominence of this former Big Three sport in the U.S. (along with horseracing and baseball), coincides with the introduction of the 12 round limit virus.

Virtually all that's left are reminisces, and hobbyist sites like ESB.

[ChrisPontius]

You can find a myriad of reasons for boxing's decline in popularity (despite about 5 GREAT fights coming up at the lower weights), but going from 15 to 12 rounds is not one of them.

Sure, it pisses off die hards like yourself but the general public doesn't give a damn about that.

[ChrisPontius]

You´re right, he looked pretty sharp, but if he looks so also in the ring is another story... let´s wait and see! :thumbsup


What´s your prediction? My prediction is:

Vitaly Klitschko TKO 7 Jameel McCline

(on points Klitschko ahead)

I still think it will end in some sort of injury.


If not, i can live with your prediction, but only because you're Italian.

[Mendoza]

I am offering you the chance to test your theories on an upcoming example of which you don't know the outcome. Vitally will fight McCline soon and if he wins he will likley fight the current WBC champion next.

What will he have lost from his period of inactivity and why?

How far gone will he be from his previous two ring performences?

Might it even benefit him and make him a better fighter than before by alowing his injuries to heal?
Most fighters who come back after a long layoff in their mid to late 30's are doomed to fail. However each man is his own case. I get the hunch Vitali wants to be back. He wasn't coaxed into returning to the ring. He is not broke. While the money means a lot, Vitali said he missed boxing before any comeback was announced. Many fighters come back only in name, but how many come back in sprit? Very few. I think Vitali will prove to be rejuvenated in a spiritual sense, and that means a lot in prize fighting. We know Vitlai will be in shape.

While I expect to see some ring rust, Vitlai’s game is more rust proof then most. Size never goes. Power is among the last to go. The key for an older fighter is the jab, which is a punch Vitlai has. The older Foreman had a good jab. The punch was used to set up the cross or hook. I think we will see a come back Vitlai Klitschko is a bit more judicious with his punches, but I also think he will commit to his punches more than his younger version did.

McCline is a good comeback opponent. While McCline is not exactly a top ten guy, we know McCline has been very competive with Byrd, and Brock, and was at the very least even with Valuev until he hurt his knee. All three of the above fighters are in the top 15. If Vitlai dominates McCline it will signal he can do the same to the other guys on Byrd, Valuev's and Brock's level for sure.

My hunch is Vitlai will beat McCline and become a legit opponent for the winner of Maskev vs Peter. It would be pre-mature to specualte if he can win back the title. I'm waiting to see how he looks vs McCline.

[Duodenum]

You can find a myriad of reasons for boxing's decline in popularity (despite about 5 GREAT fights coming up at the lower weights), but going from 15 to 12 rounds is not one of them.

Sure, it pisses off die hards like yourself but the general public doesn't give a damn about that.
The general public no longer gives a damn about boxing at all, and that indifference is historically unprecedented. Muhammad Ali was the most famous person in the world. People would tune in to see Larry Holmes finally lose, and then to find out if he'd reach Marciano's record. At least Mike Spinks had to go 15 rounds with him to end that bid. When SRL was awarded Hagler's title over a mere 12 rounds, it was a sensational upset, but spelled the beginning of the end for boxing as a mainstream sport.

If you have ideas on how to restore the former glory of a sport which has been revived before, feel free to share.

[ChrisPontius]

I think the three major reasons are:

-Having to pay $50 to watch Holyfield vs Savarese, etc. Fights should be on for free, big ones too.

-Not having a clear 'heavyweight champion' because of the splintered titles.

-Society becoming softer; more people think boxing is too brutal, although UFC's popularity suggests this is not true.


All of these are pretty hard if not impossible to influence.

[Duodenum]

-Society becoming softer; more people think boxing is too brutal, although UFC's popularity suggests this is not true.
And you do not think the reduction to 12 rounds is an element of this softening? (That change was made as a concession to the notion of boxing's brutality, and any such allowance made to interests who would have it abolished outright plays directly into their hands.)

[Ted Spoon]

Vitali should be treated as a well preserved quantity as it stands. His last performance was a walk in the park against an erratic but capable fighter.

We're not talking years out of the ring, especially today where fighters like Vitali will keep themselves well for the potential, often premeditated, 'comeback'. This is a measured return, not the famous failures of Jeffries or Louis who were back in the ring from troublesome circumstances.

The lay off will not have done Vitali any good. Generally, sharpness will have suffered and his physical prowess will only start to regress. Jameel should use this as a foothold to pounce on him from the offset, but the natural ability difference is too big it would appear. Vitali should win.

The most important point to remember is that Vitali, before he left, had quite a bit more than anyone else. He was smart, big, lean and tough - nobody else had this combination. He can grind you down with his lanky precision and fight it out, if that is, you are able to fight him. Don't be surprised if he walks a path through today’s big boys.

[Mendoza]

Hmm, you would say so... but even the greatest fighters retire too late (too much heart). He looked pretty fast and sharp on the heavybag a month ago, but of course that's no guarantee that he'll do good in the ring.

How fast and sharp did Vitali look? Is there a video link to the work out?

[ChrisPontius]

And you do not think the reduction to 12 rounds is an element of this softening? (That change was made as a concession to the notion of boxing's brutality, and any such allowance made to interests who would have it abolished outright plays directly into their hands.)

It is. Taking a 12 round beating is softer than a 15 round beating. I think the part of it being safer was more an angle to sell it, than the real reason they changed it, though.


How fast and sharp did Vitali look? Is there a video link to the work out?


They showed him hitting the bag for 10 or so seconds and doing a few other workouts. His hands looked very fast and snappy, but anyone can be fast for 10 seconds. Question is will he still have that level after 20 minutes of fighting?

I saw it on German television, but i can't find a link to it. It was quite similar to the footage they showed when he announced his comeback, though.

[Mendoza]

The general public no longer gives a damn about boxing at all, and that indifference is historically unprecedented.

While some points are true, this post is a bit misleading. Who is the general public? Boxing is more popular now than ever in many parts of Europe. Each year, more and more cards are being staged in Europe. In fact, it would not surprise me if Europe and Russia draws more crowds to pro boxing than the USA does. Boxing is dying out a bit in the USA becauce the USA has no Ali or Demspey to root for. Hopkins is older, De La Hoya is older. We don't even have a Holmes to root against. When it comes to heavyweights the USA has is the Ruiz's, Rahman's, and Byrd's of boxing. What the sport needs in the USA is a popular super star above the welter weight limit in his prime. Perhaps Pavlik is him. Mayweather is very talented, but he is not a loved fighter in all circles.

[Duodenum]

In the 1970s, plenty of marquee boxing matchups took place between non-Americans in locales like Monte Carlo, between opponents such as Monzon and Benvenuti, or Corro and Valdes, contests broadcast live on U.S. network television. Rocky Mattioli's courageous one armed stand against Maurice Hope in defense of his junior middleweight title at San Remo, and the rematch in London transfixed a great many fans in the U.S. So I don't believe boxing necessarily needs a star from the U.S.A to be revived, only familiar names, faces and stories the public can care about.

Carlos Monzon proved that the United States could be bypassed entirely in establishing a great championship resume for himself, but why does nobody enjoy that level of recognition among the general public today?