** Was Mills Lane overated as a Ref...?

[Orishaman]

I been watching some tape of some great fights in my collection and also on ESPN and a number of these fights were refered by Mills Lane....many during his tenure taught he was top ranked Referee, but looking at these fight now, specially the Marc Breland vs. Aaron Davies last night....I reallys tarted to see a trend on Mills Lane playing favorites in similar fashion to Eddie Cotton, and missing clinch command and honestly not doing his job.....this fight happend during his prime and honestly I was not impressed as I was not impressed on his dealings with Holyfiled pre-ear bitting incident...and many others..Livingston Bramble II, etc....

what you guys think..

[PolishPummler]

G.O.A.T

Long live Mills Lane.

[Orishaman]

You guys needs to really watch his fights and them talk...he was a media hyped Ref....he was loud, but not effective......

[Fedor Em]

Mills was a fantastic ref, the sport was better with him.

[kg0208]

You guys needs to really watch his fights and them talk...he was a media hyped Ref....he was loud, but not effective......

Just as you just posted about Leonard.

No, he wasn't overrated. His fights are there for all of us to watch. He was a great ref, maybe the best ever. If you don't like him, fine. But we can all see he was great.

[Marnoff]

A guy who would act on how he saw it, regardless of how large the stage was.

[Orishaman]

Just as you just posted about Leonard.

No, he wasn't overrated. His fights are there for all of us to watch. He was a great ref, maybe the best ever. If you don't like him, fine. But we can all see he was great.

Nope...is not as simple as SRL...Mills Lane was not a super Ref as the media led us to beleive, if you watch his fight of Holy v. Tyson II , you will see that he was playing fav's with Holy ...Mark Breland fight some thing, Bramble etc...He was adequate at best, not the best ever...
which is only one Ref we can unanimously can call the best ever: Arthir Mercante Sr.....other than that we can argue all day long.....as we ahve done it so many times before....:good

[kg0208]

Nope...is not as simple as SRL...Mills Lane was not a super Ref as the media led us to beleive, if you watch his fight of Holy v. Tyson II , you will see that he was playing fav's with Holy ...Mark Breland fight some thing, Bramble etc...He was adequate at best, not the best ever...
which is only one Ref we can unanimously can call the best ever: Arthir Mercante Sr.....other than that we can argue all day long.....as we ahve done it so many times before....:good

Not going to argue with you. I saw the fights and don't agree with you. Most here won't and haven't. It is that simple.

[Orishaman]

A guy who would act on how he saw it, regardless of how large the stage was.

He played favorites....as Eddie Cotton did...now if you want to name a REF THAT REALLY CALL IT AS HE SAW IT...REGARDLESS...one name come to mind: Richard Steele...he was not afraid of making the trough desicion.... never was...cost him his career for doing that....

[Shake]

He wasn't perfect, but the best I've seen. Consider that the man was of age and very frail and tiny, yet he rarely hesitated jumping in between heavyweights when he needed to force a stoppage. Simply a man I admire.

[Orishaman]

Not going to argue with you. I saw the fights and don't agree with you. Most here won't and haven't. It is that simple.

Let me ask you this:

Do you think that Evander gets aways with headbutt and leading with his head more than the average boxer?

Did Evander display this trend in the Tyson v Holy II fight?


If you answer yes to both, them we don't need to argued..since Mills Lane never call Evander on any of the potential fouls.....

[Shake]

Duran did the same by way of habit. It's one of the harder fouls to act upon if it isn't overdone, since a lot of fighters will accidentally do it in any given fight. It's a rough sport, clashing heads is a real possibility at any time.

I'm not prepared to call the man corrupt, question his integrity and objectivity because of something that minor.

[Marnoff]

He played favorites....as Eddie Cotton did...now if you want to name a REF THAT REALLY CALL IT AS HE SAW IT...REGARDLESS...one name come to mind: Richard Steele...he was not afraid of making the trough desicion.... never was...cost him his career for doing that....

I agree with that, which is why Richard Steele is one of my favourites of all time. Just watch his interview after Chavez - Taylor I. To the point and sure of himself, taking care of the fight, not being the timekeeper. It was a tough call to make, and he did his job.

[kg0208]

Let me ask you this:

Do you think that Evander gets aways with headbutt and leading with his head more than the average boxer?

Did Evander display this trend in the Tyson v Holy II fight?


If you answer yes to both, them we don't need to argued..since Mills Lane never call Evander on any of the potential fouls.....
That means little since no one really called Holyfield for this since it was hard to prove. Richard Steele didn't either. I am not going to argue....you have your opinion, and it is obviously not shared by many. Don't act surprised.

[Orishaman]

Oh brother! Richard Steele was great and MILLS LANE played favourites? :rofl Put the tequila down O-man.

Richard Steele unfortunately was under the suspcions of being a puppet for Don King, and that work against his credentials and people never saw him as a the great Ref he was.....he madehis mark in perhaps the most controversila call in boxing history, as we all know, in JCC v. Taylor I, and I know I am one of the few that taught he acted properly on that fight...now that is a gutsy call by Ref....what gutzy call did Mills Lane had to do on his career, the Tyson call was an easy one....

[Shake]

You're not in there to make a 'superstar' decision, you're there to referee a fight.

[Orishaman]

That means little since no one really called Holyfield for this since it was hard to prove. Richard Steele didn't either. I am not going to argue....you have your opinion, and it is obviously not shared by many. Don't act surprised.

1000 Flies swarm over shit...so do that mean that they are right...come on....I am trying to have a educated argument here, and you start to make it like it s infamous and sacrilegeous for me to even said that Mills was overated...he was.....Richard Steele made far more gutzy calls than Mills ever did....and you know what, Richard Steel was right far more time than anyone else I can remember as the third man in the ring

[Orishaman]

You're not in there to make a 'superstar' decision, you're there to referee a fight.

Agreed that's also is another issue that works against Mills Lane in my book, at times he was the show and not the fight, in fact more times than likely....a good Ref you don;t even notice him in the fight.....

[andyZOR]

Mills was a fantastic ref, the sport was better with him.
I agree.

[Shake]

The reason Lane stood out was because he was respected by fighters, viewers and media alike. He's boxings Collina.

[4Rounder]

Mills Lane was a great ref.

[Orishaman]

All these guys are overrated ..The best was Carlos Padilla but he was blackballed by SRL crew after the 1st Duran fight.

I have to agree with nyou about Padilla......one of the best during his time...

[INFIGHT]

Let me ask you this:

Do you think that Evander gets aways with headbutt and leading with his head more than the average boxer?

Did Evander display this trend in the Tyson v Holy II fight?


If you answer yes to both, them we don't need to argued..since Mills Lane never call Evander on any of the potential fouls.....
I have a hard time seeing Mills as playing favorites in that fight. Tyson should have been disqualified after the first bite but instead only got a point deduction. As you know some fighters lead with their head and, in the event of contact, would be easy to disguise a head butt as incidental.

[kg0208]

1000 Flies swarm over shit...so do that mean that they are right...come on....I am trying to have a educated argument here, and you start to make it like it s infamous and sacrilegeous for me to even said that Mills was overated...he was.....Richard Steele made far more gutzy calls than Mills ever did....and you know what, Richard Steel was right far more time than anyone else I can remember as the third man in the ring

Sure Orisha. You aren't trying to have an educated argument. Otherwise you would acknowledge counterpoints. Steele didn't call Holyfield for his leading with his head or headbutts. But you don't point that out. End of story.

And it is infamous IMO.... as Reggie points out, you ALWAYS do this. BTW, 1000 flies swarming over shit has nothing to do with right or wrong. Thats about food and survival. Bad analogy.

[Scorpion]

Nope...is not as simple as SRL...Mills Lane was not a super Ref as the media led us to beleive, if you watch his fight of Holy v. Tyson II , you will see that he was playing fav's with Holy ...Mark Breland fight some thing, Bramble etc...He was adequate at best, not the best ever...
which is only one Ref we can unanimously can call the best ever: Arthir Mercante Sr.....other than that we can argue all day long.....as we ahve done it so many times before....:good

i dont get it why do so many people not like srl?

[Orishaman]

Sure Orisha. You aren't trying to have an educated argument. Otherwise you would acknowledge counterpoints. Steele didn't call Holyfield for his leading with his head or headbutts. But you don't point that out. End of story.

And it is infamous IMO.... as Reggie points out, you ALWAYS do this. BTW, 1000 flies swarming over shit has nothing to do with right or wrong. Thats about food and survival. Bad analogy.

Richard Steele call Holy for leading with the head far more times than Mills Lane ever did,, Steele constantly call Holy for leading with the ehad on Ruiz I fight, now how many call of leading with the head did Mills did on Bowe II fight.....come on...if youa re goig to talk....bring something to the table other than your bias...and that goes for Reggie also

[Mendoza]

A guy who would act on how he saw it, regardless of how large the stage was.

Part of being a great ref is adding credibility to the event. Lane towered above his counterparts in this respect. The fighters and corners respected Lane's instructions. In almost all cases each team knew they were going to get a fair shake when Mills Lane was the 3rd man in the ring. Lane was perhaps the last great referee boxing has had, and a celebrity outside of boxing ta boot.

[KayEpps]

Mills Lane did a pretty good job over his career. Give credit where credit is due.

[kg0208]

Richard Steele call Holy for leading with the head far more times than Mills Lane ever did,, Steele constantly call Holy for leading with the ehad on Ruiz I fight, now how many call of leading with the head did Mills did on Bowe II fight.....come on...if youa re goig to talk....bring something to the table other than your bias...and that goes for Reggie also

My bias? That was pathetic. Nothing I have said makes me biased. I don't agree with you and I am biased?

You asked the question, you have your answer. Lane called things that Steele didn't, and he didn't make some of the mistakes he did (like stopping Toney and Jones with 10 seconds left in the round cuz he thought it was the bell).

Not agreeing with you doesn't make me biased. If you don't want to hear other opinions, don't ask the question asking for others opinions. It's as simple as that.

[Orishaman]

My bias? That was pathetic. Nothing I have said makes me biased. I don't agree with you and I am biased?

You asked the question, you have your answer. Lane called things that Steele didn't, and he didn't make some of the mistakes he did (like stopping Toney and Jones with 10 seconds left in the round cuz he thought it was the bell).

Not agreeing with you doesn't make me biased. If you don't want to hear other opinions, don't ask the question asking for others opinions. It's as simple as that.

I ask for your opinion not trying to bash me by commenting: well you always do that..Well I try to look at thing under a different light than many of guys that take things for granted raterh than analyzed them....

Richard made the mistake on the Toney v. RJJ fight, no doubt, but so did Mills Lane in the Breland v. Davies fight in several rounds he was not able to stop the action between the boxers, and in round Y he allowed Breland to connect solid punch after at least 5 seconds after the bell...Did you ever watch this fight? If you haven;t ...them just said so...but not try to paint Mills Lane as a Ref that enver made any mistake...

Now given the comment that someone made that in the early 90's Mills Lane name gave legitimasy to the event...sure...exactly my point he became bigger than the event.....he was the media darling when it came to Ref's.....

[kg0208]

I ask for your opinion not trying to bash me by commenting: well you always do that..Well I try to look at thing under a different light than many of guys that take things for granted raterh than analyzed them....

Richard made the mistake on the Toney v. RJJ fight, no doubt, but so did Mills Lane in the Breland v. Davies fight in several rounds he was not able to stop the action between the boxers, and in round Y he allowed Breland to connect solid punch after at least 5 seconds after the bell...Did you ever watch this fight? If you haven;t ...them just said so...but not try to paint Mills Lane as a Ref that enver made any mistake...

Now given the comment that someone made that in the early 90's Mills Lane name gave legitimasy to the event...sure...exactly my point he became bigger than the event.....he was the media darling when it came to Ref's.....

I didn't bash you. I made a statement. It was the truth. You have made a number of threads where you take something that is accepted by most, and try to point out liitle things or an entirely different opinion that no one else agrees with and then argue it to death.

I never said I saw or didn't see the Breland fight. Why would I acknowledge that I didn't see it when I didn't bring it up? See, there you go again.

Did I say that Lane never made mistakes? No, I said that Lane didn't make alot of mistakes that Steele did.

[Orishaman]

Do you ever wonder why he just disappeared when he was the "MAN" late 70's early 80's..

If they kept Carlos Padilla around, there wouldnt be any of this hugging, holding fights that is way too prevalent .:good

Padilla, as you mentined was blackball after the Duran v. SRL I....

Padilla earn his stripes the hardway...and got his chance in the Thrilla in Manila and did an incrdilble job....from ther on he was the man in the 70's to mid 80's...hell who can forget the point deduction of Macho Camacho for refusing to touch gloves in the last round in the Haggen fight...the same point that cost him the fight...now that is a tought desicion.....when did Mills Lane needed to make a desicion like that ...never....

The word spread when blackball that he lost control of fights....which was not true....but that was his demise...

[Orishaman]

I didn't bash you. I made a statement. It was the truth. You have made a number of threads where you take something that is accepted by most, and try to point out liitle things or an entirely different opinion that no one else agrees with and then argue it to death.

I never said I saw or didn't see the Breland fight. Why would I acknowledge that I didn't see it when I didn't bring it up? See, there you go again.

Did I say that Lane never made mistakes? No, I said that Lane didn't make alot of mistakes that Steele did.

For every mistake that you can point of Steele, which I think they were few, I can point out the same amount by Lane's

[kg0208]

For every mistake that you can point of Steele, which I think they were few, I can point out the same amount by Lane's

That doesn't take into account context and severity.

Why did you make this thread?

[Orishaman]

That doesn't take into account context and severity.

Why did you make this thread?

As I mentioned I been studying a lot of fights latetly on my colection and I started to notice a pattern on Mills Lane, that I never notice....and watching the Breland fight preatty much cleared it for me.....this is not something I just decided to write...hell I have not been on ESB for a while, music and studying fights and my boxers is taking all my time...but after it was clear to me, I decided I needed to post on this issue...obviously "most" of you gys don;t agree with me...but then...most of you ahve not ahve the chance to watch as many Mills Lane Ref fight as I have done in the last 2 weeks...I mean...I ahve name clear examples is not like I just decieed out of the blue...

[kg0208]

As I mentioned I been studying a lot of fights latetly on my colection and I started to notice a pattern on Mills Lane, that I never notice....and watching the Breland fight preatty much cleared it for me.....this is not something I just decided to write...hell I have not been on ESB for a while, music and studying fights and my boxers is taking all my time...but after it was clear to me, I decided I needed to post on this issue...obviously "most" of you gys don;t agree with me...but then...most of you ahve not ahve the chance to watch as many Mills Lane Ref fight as I have done in the last 2 weeks...I mean...I ahve name clear examples is not like I just decieed out of the blue...

That is why you think Mills Lane is not as good as others think. You made the thread to get feedback. You got mine, and you are not going to change my opinion.

Most don't agree with you because ANYONE can pick things apart. I guarantee you that I could go back and look at 100 Steele fights and find parts where he didn't enforce a rule. Some refs let things go and have differnt thresholds. Sometimes this changes from fight to fight depending on the tendency of the fighter.

[Orishaman]

That is why you think Mills Lane is not as good as others think. You made the thread to get feedback. You got mine, and you are not going to change my opinion.

Most don't agree with you because ANYONE can pick things apart. I guarantee you that I could go back and look at 100 Steele fights and find parts where he didn't enforce a rule. Some refs let things go and have differnt thresholds. Sometimes this changes from fight to fight depending on the tendency of the fighter.

You will be hard press to find major mistakes by Steele.....now let me say this , I said he was overated and I stand by that statement...now he was better than most, but not the Ref the media set him out to be....Steele got crucified for making the tough decision and Padilla was outcast from boxing preatty much for also making the tough desicions....Mills play the media to many times...at least on my book

[Thread Stealer]

He was a solid ref throughout his career.

Where he does get undeserved credit, however, is how he handled the Holyfield-Tyson rematch.

Tyson should've been gone after the first bite, and Mills was ready to DQ him, but seemed to be influenced by Marc Ratner asking him "are you sure?".

Imagine if Tyson had gone on and won the fight. How fucked up would it be if Tyson won the richest prize fight (at the time) ever after BITING A PIECE OF HIS OPPONENT'S EAR OFF?

[Orishaman]

He was a solid ref throughout his career.

Where he does get undeserved credit, however, is how he handled the Holyfield-Tyson rematch.

Tyson should've been gone after the first bite, and Mills was ready to DQ him, but seemed to be influenced by Marc Ratner asking him "are you sure?".

Imagine if Tyson had gone on and won the fight. How fucked up would it be if Tyson won the richest prize fight (at the time) ever after BITING A PIECE OF HIS OPPONENT'S EAR OFF?

This was a double edge sword for Mills ...no doubt.....I tell you what, Padillla or Steele would have DQ Tyson immidietly, or take 2 points off, as a flagrant foul, which by the rules is at the Ref's "discretion" and Mills didn;lt think it was a flagrant foul.....wow!!:patsch

[Orishaman]

Was Carlos Padilla from Puerto Rico?

Filipino.....:good

[Orishaman]

Now, Padilla had some strange controversial fights and no more crazy than the Norris v. Drayton fight in 89 ....at this point Padilla was only able to handle mnor title fights, this was a NABF title I believe, but what happened stayed on my mind for a long time....after a KD, Drayton gets up half way thru the count, Padilla check him and let him fighting....Drayton start throwing some crazy wing mill type punches...missing the all badly....Padilla stops the action call time out, send them to a neutral corner both boxers, goes to the officials table and ask them if they taught that Drayton was fighting effectivelly after the KD, they say yes, and the action continue, now this extra time that it took to clear this incident, gave enought time to Drayton to recover....to lose a one side desicion....
...and this was one of the best REF IN BOXING...he was past of his prime and not as sharp as he once was

[Zakman]

He played favorites....as Eddie Cotton did...now if you want to name a REF THAT REALLY CALL IT AS HE SAW IT...REGARDLESS...one name come to mind: Richard Steele...he was not afraid of making the trough desicion.... never was...cost him his career for doing that....

Oh please. Richard "Call it Off Quickly because Don King Told Me To" Steele isn't fit to carry Mills Lane's jockstrap.:patsch

[Orishaman]

Oh please. Richard "Call it Off Quickly because Don King Told Me To" Steele isn't fit to carry Mills Lane's jockstrap.:patsch

You see, ther you perseption is thruth in this country...No he wasn't Don King puppet...Steele was tough...hell ..let's remember that at one point King had a substatial number of top boxer under his belt all going to titles so he was promoting more Title fights that any other promoter, and sure Steele was the best so he Ref the top ones...

[Orishaman]

What happened with Padilla is that he was heavily criticized by SRL camp after the 1st Duran fight for letting Duran fight the way Duran fights, meaning roughousing, dirty boxing...

It was some kind of myth that he was blackballed after this but he did have some more featured gig but not quite like he did before this fight...I mean Sanchez VS Gomez that was a fabulous job stopping that bout. Ali/ Frazier, hearns /Duran countless times refereing the greatest fight

I said he did a great job and the blackball issue was far more than a fallacy, it happened, as I mentioned on the Norris fight, he was reduced to Ref minor title bouts ...plus don;t forget the Hussein v Paquiao fight, were Pacquiao got some extra 18 secnds to recover....

Regardless on his time Padilla was tops...no doubt!!

[He Hate Me]

I been watching some tape of some great fights in my collection and also on ESPN and a number of these fights were refered by Mills Lane....many during his tenure taught he was top ranked Referee, but looking at these fight now, specially the Marc Breland vs. Aaron Davies last night....I reallys tarted to see a trend on Mills Lane playing favorites in similar fashion to Eddie Cotton, and missing clinch command and honestly not doing his job.....this fight happend during his prime and honestly I was not impressed as I was not impressed on his dealings with Holyfiled pre-ear bitting incident...and many others..Livingston Bramble II, etc....

what you guys think..

I think people like you start threads for a rabid response.

[Scorpion]

i always liked smoger

[barneyrub]

He should have stopped the Lewis Mccall rematch earlier, in fact in the corner between rounds he asked him if he wanted to fight, Mccall said no, his corner man Greg Page said yeah he wants to fight so Mills let him continue, Mccall said no before his corner said yes.

Another example is in the Tyson Holyfield rematch, he said he was DQing Tyson after the fist bite then Marc Ratner asked if he was sure, Mills then changed his mind and decided to take 2 points off instead, I think his decision making was influenced in both circumstances when he should have shown firm resolve to make the decision himself.

[Orishaman]

He should have stopped the Lewis Mccall rematch earlier, in fact in the corner between rounds he asked him if he wanted to fight, Mccall said no, his corner man Greg Page said yeah he wants to fight so Mills let him continue, Mccall said no before his corner said yes.

Another example is in the Tyson Holyfield rematch, he said he was DQing Tyson after the fist bite then Marc Ratner asked if he was sure, Mills then changed his mind and decided to take 2 points off instead, I think his decision making was influenced in both circumstances when he should have shown firm resolve to make the decision himself.

You can keep adding more examples taht many in here has conviniently forgotten.....BTW I was not saying he was a bad Ref, just not what many taught he was.....

[Orishaman]

I think people like you start threads for a rabid response.

Obviously you are one the lads I was refering too!!

[boxingabc123]

He played favorites....as Eddie Cotton did...now if you want to name a REF THAT REALLY CALL IT AS HE SAW IT...REGARDLESS...one name come to mind: Richard Steele...he was not afraid of making the trough desicion.... never was...cost him his career for doing that....

Your right Steele wasn't afraid as he made several tough decisions.