Brillant Amatures Who Were Bad/Medicore Pro's?

[cotto20]

Who Are They??????

Discuss............

[good right hand]

not a bad pro, but the amature great paul gonzalez had some misfortune in fighting in the same time that the great orlando canizales was reigning.

michael bennett actually beat felix sevon in the amatures and was the captain of the olympic team but dident have the same success as a prom.

[TBooze]

Kelcie Banks

Peter Richardson (A Brit from the 90s)

[Duodenum]

Going into the Montreal Olympics, the two most skilled members of the USA Squad were generally considered to be Davey Lee Armstrong and Clint Jackson. Armstrong was a veteran of the Munich Olympics, but he finished a mere fifth in Montreal, then went 24(14) - 3(1) as a pro before hanging them up in 1983. He did manage to win the NABF LW Title shortly before he retired, but that was in his only professional championship match at any level.

Jackson also finished short of the mark in Montreal, then sputtered to a 25(19) - 7(2) professional ledger. The early stoppage loss to Tony Braxton was certainly a setback, but the devastating upset blowout loss to unheralded Buster Drayton in Jackson's Nashville hometown ruined Clint's career. He never defeated significant opposition in the punch for pay ranks. (Drayton would overcome some later stumbles to become IBF Light Middleweight Champion.) Former deputy sheriff Jackson was convicted in 1989 for kidnapping an Alabama banker in an extortion scheme, and is currently serving a life sentence.

[Jorodz]

i was just reading about mark breland the other day and was once again saddened by what a brilliant amateur he was and yet his pro career fell so short. he just couldn't make the transition

[Duodenum]

i was just reading about mark breland the other day and was once again saddened by what a brilliant amateur he was and yet his pro career fell so short. he just couldn't make the transitionBreland was probably the one most of us thought about immediately. I didn't name him because he wasn't a complete failure as a pro. He won and defended the WBA WW Championship on a few occasions, against some competent opposition.

Howard Davis, Jr. never won a world title, but he had a respectable career, not something I would describe as "bad" or "mediocre."

[My2Sense]

Jorge Luis Gonzales
Shawn O'Sullivan

Wasn't Bobby Joe Young supposedly some kind of good amateur? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

[Russell]

Sugar Ray Seales?

[Bummy Davis]

Willie Dewitt, Shawn O'Sullivan and Nick Wells,



Mark Breyland(incomparison to his expetations)Howard Davis Jr

[zadfrak]

Audley Harrison is another one.

A lot of folks really liked his potential early but it really didn't take long before people were jumping off the bandwagon. Usually it takes a loss for folks to jump off the bandwagon but Harrison was kind of like Amir Khan and seemed to lose 50% of his supporters his first 18 months. Interesting if for no other reason than the pendulum swing.

[ricardinho]

Paul Gonzalez gold medalist from East LA his wins were gifts. He fought for the title and got spanked! I called him Oscar once to piss him off...

[Beeston Brawler]

Michael Carruth

[Duodenum]

Sugar Ray Seales?Good call. This thread isn't asking for heavily hyped but brilliant amateurs.

As the only American Gold Medalist to come out of Munich, Seales could have been promoted for that accomplishment in the professional ranks, but his management chose not to play that up. If they had, he might be remembered more today in the way many remember Breland or Davis, Jr.

Hagler ruined him in dramatic fashion on national television the third time they squared off. Like Willie Monroe, Seales learned that facing Marv thrice was the worst of ideas. This was one Sugar Ray who couldn't live up to the name, and would have been better off without the pressure of that reputation.

[EireFightFan]

Pete Rademacher springs to mind although his prospects were hardly helped by being thrown in at the deep end so soon.

Also Tyrell Biggs was a disappointment as a pro, although his amateur brilliance could be questioned as his olympic gold medal was won without having to face the Soviets or Cubans.

[lefthook31]

David Reid
Tyrell Biggs
Henry Tillman
Jorge Luis Gonzalez
FranciscoBojado

[GDG]

How about Howard Davis!!? Though he wasn't terrible, he never achieved anywhere near what was expected of him.

Mark Breland is the obvious answer...and I really think Audley should be thrown in!!! Isn't he the only SHW Olympic winner never to fight for the world title (excluding Cammarelle of course)!!!

[Titan1]

Jackie Beard
Richard Savage
Jimmy Clark
Tyrell Biggs.

[kolcade4]

nick wells was by far one of the most impressive amateurs known 189-18 110 kos 72 first rd ko's. it pisses me off what didnt happen when he became a pro.

[wansen]

Willie Dewitt, Shawn O'Sullivan and Nick Wells,


Didn't S.R.L. manage Dewitt and Sullivan for a while?

[Axl_Nose]

i was just reading about mark breland the other day and was once again saddened by what a brilliant amateur he was and yet his pro career fell so short. he just couldn't make the transition

Breland was by no means the the biggest disappointment. Howard Davis must be viewed as a bigger one. This guy beats Aaron Pryor to make the '76 Olympic team and then gets voted the best fighter on the US team ahead of Michael Spinks and Leonard. As a pro he just didnt cut it .. Jorge Luis Gonzalez was another guy that was a stellar amatuer but couldnt hack it as a pro, although Gonzalez had a serious attitude problem that probably didnt help ..

[hhascup]

Many time New York Golden Glove Champion Vince Shomo was 655-4 and most of those were by knockouts, while in the Amateurs. He was 12-10-2 as a Pro.

Vince Shomo won four New York (City) Golden Gloves Championships. Shomo won the 1956 featherweight Sub-Novice title, and the 1957, 1959 and the 1960 lightweight Open championships. Shomo trained at the City Youth Organization Gym in New York City. In 1957 he won the New York Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions at lightweight, by decision over Billy Copeland ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), also in 1957 he was on the short end of a decision to Billy Braggs for the Intercity Golden Gloves lightweight championship. In 1958 he won the Intercity Golden Gloves lightweight alternate title over Billy Braggs ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). In 1959 he won the New York Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions at lightweight, by first round ko over Darrell Powell ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), also in 1959 he won the Intercity Golden Gloves lightweight championship by stopping Freddie Davis ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) in the second round. In 1960 he won the New York Golden Gloves Tournament of Champions, by first round ko over Leonard Thomas ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), also in 1960 he decisioned Brian O'Shea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) for the Intercity Golden Gloves championship at lightweight. Shomo was also the National AAU Light Welterweight champion in 1957, 1958, and 1960.

[My2Sense]

There was an African heavyweight named Courage Tshabalala (or something like that) who was supposedly something like 71-1 (69 KOs) as an amateur, though most people figured that was bullshit anyway. Tshabala never looked like much from the start of his pro career, and disappeared after getting KO'd by Oleg Maskaev and a couple other guys.

[joe6991]

audley harrison

[WhataRock]

Steve McCrory (RIP) had some raps on him...Olympic gold medalist and 2 x National champ.

But Fenech absolutely mugged him, hard to come back from a beating like that...I think he went on to become a world ranked superbantam but never challenged for a title again.

[ironchamp]

his olympic gold medal was won without having to face the Soviets or Cubans.

well he did face and beat Lennox Lewis...

[Russell]

There was an African heavyweight named Courage Tshabalala (or something like that) who was supposedly something like 71-1 (69 KOs) as an amateur, though most people figured that was bullshit anyway. Tshabala never looked like much from the start of his pro career, and disappeared after getting KO'd by Oleg Maskaev and a couple other guys.

Frightenly powerful puncher. Broke a few of Maskaev's ribs, the bodyshots in that fight were among the very loudest I have ever heard. Courage was hitting him with jabs to the body that literally pushed him halfway across the ring.

Supposedly the guy put up 400 pounds or so under the bench and he never did any weight training in his life. Real specimen.

[GazOC]

Didn't S.R.L. manage Dewitt and Sullivan for a while?
Not sure about DeWitt but he def. managed O'Sullivan.

[curly]

Audley Harrison

[ThinBlack]

Johnny Bumphus

[TBooze]

Audley Harrison

Audley as an amateur was the same as he was as a pro: Deeply frustrating!

He certainly was not the brilliant amateur the thread wants.

[Saintpat]

Going into the Montreal Olympics, the two most skilled members of the USA Squad were generally considered to be Davey Lee Armstrong and Clint Jackson. Armstrong was a veteran of the Munich Olympics, but he finished a mere fifth in Montreal, then went 24(14) - 3(1) as a pro before hanging them up in 1983. He did manage to win the NABF LW Title shortly before he retired, but that was in his only professional championship match at any level.

Jackson also finished short of the mark in Montreal, then sputtered to a 25(19) - 7(2) professional ledger. The early stoppage loss to Tony Braxton was certainly a setback, but the devastating upset blowout loss to unheralded Buster Drayton in Jackson's Nashville hometown ruined Clint's career. He never defeated significant opposition in the punch for pay ranks. (Drayton would overcome some later stumbles to become IBF Light Middleweight Champion.) Former deputy sheriff Jackson was convicted in 1989 for kidnapping an Alabama banker in an extortion scheme, and is currently serving a life sentence.

Clint's problem was after a disappointing first-fight loss in Montreal, he decided to stay amateur for another try. Then he lost his amateur status in 1979, about a year before the (later to be boycotted) Olympics, for fighting an exhibition on a pro show.

So Clint turned pro at age 25, and his heart wasn't completely in it because he was so geared up for Olympic glory.

Due to his late start, he was pushed a bit too fast -- facing 78-19-1 Jimmy Heair in his sixth fight in a 10-rounder, no less, for instance.

I didn't know he was still in prison, but I remember when he got convicted.

[Saintpat]

Jimmy Clark was also one who came to my mind.

You could include Duane Bobick also.

[Sam Dixon]

Not sure about DeWitt but he def. managed O'Sullivan.

Mike Trainer was O'Sullivan's official manager, although Leonard did play a part in Shawn's career as a mentor in the gym and was also, along with J.D. Brown out of Washington who mostly handled the duties, helping out in the scouting & selecting of future opponents for Shawn during the early stages of his career. The two fighters had also sparred as early as when Leonard was making his comeback against Howard, and apparently the two really hit it off with each other from that point on.

[OLD FOGEY]

Nick Wells ko'd Larry Holmes twice as an amateur but was nothing special as a pro.

[kolcade4]

Nick Wells ko'd Larry Holmes twice as an amateur but was nothing special as a pro.
could we please stop focusing on the one aspect of nick wells career. yes he ko'd holmes twice as an amateur . holmes refused to fight nick in the pros, which would have definatly been a great payday for both sides. but nick rocked the world as an amateur .Wells was a five-time Fort Worth Golden Gloves champion and a two-time Star-telegram Texas State Golden Gloves champion. Three time Texas state champion 1969,1970,1971.Five time all air force champion1972,1973,1974,1975,1976. Two time interservice champion1973,1975.Three time interservice runner up 1972,1974,1976.Two time Nevada state golden gloves champion 1972,1973. 1972 National AAU Champion. Western hemisphere Champion 1972 or 1973. World military Champion(CISM games)1973 . Wells compiled an amateur record of 189-18 with 110 knockouts, 72 of them in the first round. HE SUCKED AS A PRO THOUGH, BEATING NOBODY AND LOSING TO NOBODIES. WHY DID SOMEONE WITH SUCH BADASS STATS AS AN AMATEUR NOT MAKE THE TRANSITION?

[OLD FOGEY]

Fair enough kolcade4, but the achievement which looms and will always loom in history is knocking out Larry Holmes twice.

Besides, I didn't know as much as you do about Wells' total amateur career. He obviously had an excellent overall amateur record.

[kolcade4]

Fair enough kolcade4, but the achievement which looms and will always loom in history is knocking out Larry Holmes twice.

Besides, I didn't know as much as you do about Wells' total amateur career. He obviously had an excellent overall amateur record.
Im not saying dont overlook the fact that he kayoed holmes twice, im saying that people need to realize that he accomplished more than just that as an amateur.

[THEHAMMER321]

Mark Breland know winning a title is always a great feat for a fighter Breland was thought to be 1 of the greatest amateurs ever so maybe he could be included in this thread

[turpinr]

errol christie

[ThinBlack]

Jimmy Clark and Bobby Joe Young.

[lefthook89]

henry tillman

[sweetsci]

Hey, did anyone mention Howard Davis, Mark Breland, Jimmy Clark, or Audley Harrison yet? :nut

[TBooze]

Michael Carruth

LOL, good pick, one of the few (if any) Olympic champs who were decked with the first punch they took as a pro!!!!

[Vantage_West]

errol christie
good call

adrian dodson
tontcho tontchev
peter richardson

[Vantage_West]

whats your thoughts about nard taylor? 400+ am fights got to become a pretty solid fighter in the pro ranks but never reached anything that would suggest he was top notch material

[anarci]

Paul Gonzalez gold medalist from East LA his wins were gifts. He fought for the title and got spanked! I called him Oscar once to piss him off...I met Paul when i was like 13 at some benefit for him when he was getting ready to go for the Olympic trials (I remember it was the same night that Holmes knocked out Marvis Fraizer)super kool dude he had a fine chick on each arm.Anyways we started boxing and he was amazed how much boxing i knew for being a kid.Long story short he talked me into going to his gym,I hadnt been to a gym since i was 8 but eventually he got me to go tothe gym again I ended up being at the same gym as paul when iwas a young teen at the Hollenback youth center in East Los Angeles but he was hardly there after the Olympics.

He was a great amatuer and no one could touch him back then. He dominated every one in the olympics and won the Val Barker award. He use to spar with champs and world class flys ,bantams and have his way with them when he was an amatuer. Problem was his hands he had brittle hands and not much power,real tall for his wt at 5-9 He was still really good in his first 8 or 9 pro fights he beat contender Alonzo Strongbow in his 3rd fight for the NABF title. He also started partying and was acting like he was a World champ after winning the Gold medal he was real big in LA back then,So his lifestyle plus he had a lot of layoffs earlyon due to hand problems he seemed to have just lost his great natural talent by the time he fought Canizales for the title he was stopped on a cut but was getting handled before they stopped it in the 2nd. After that he was mainly jusst a fringe contender and finished 16-4-0-3kos,

Anyways "Ricardnho" you forgot to mention that he also put on a boxing clinic against Orlando Canizales in his 5th pro fight,Orlando dropped him once but Paul got up and won almost every round.

I remember he didnt like OScar at first I forgot his reasons but i think he was just hating or had sour grapes cause every one forgot about him and made a big deal of Oscar. Oscar also use to go train at Hollenback to train when he was an amatuer and as a kid from time to time Al Stankie trained him as a teen,who is better known for saving Gonzalez from the gang life and taking him to a gold medal butthe Ressurection was Oscars main gym. I think some of the dislike is that he remembers when Oscar was a wet behind the ears kids when Paul was the talk of the town. Later when Oscar was a prospect coming up Paul begged him for a payday and wanted to comeback to fight Oscar but Gonzalez was to old plus Oscar was a Huge Jr lightweight and Paul would have been a blown up Bantam. Later on they ended up becoming friends.

By the way what wins were gifts for Paul? I dont recall him getting any gift decisions.

[manbearpig]

It's spelled AMATEUR. Fucking hell.

[Bigcat]

Tyrell Biggs was one that sprung to mind..

Courage was not that great an amateur , but i knew him quite well, he became Lou Duvas right hand man , and mitt man in helping him nurture many young fighters when he kinda retired. He was a very powerful man, he lost his unbeaten record to unheralded Brian Bam bam scott on a Golota v Bowe card in New York. He hit like a truck.. he used to hang out with Zab judah when Mike was training at Golden Gloves Gym in Vegas around the time of the 2nd Holyfield fight. Courage was awesome to look at , imposing as hell.. like a giant Kong type figure when he stared down at you from the ring.. LOL

[Blood Green]

Ricardo Williams

[anarci]

Eddie Escobedo was a Mexican/American Super heavyweight who was suppose to be pretty good he won a couple National titles but lost to Larry Donald in the trials.He turned pro and got off to a 12-1-1-11kos but was weighin up to 290 at the end and probably couldnt stay away from the dinner table cause he weighed a fit 230 as an amatuer. His last fight he had a draw with Harold Sconiers and never fought again despite his still proming record.

[anarci]

I remember Mitch Greens pro debut(on wide world of sports) and he looked awesome he blew out some guy in 1 round. I told my dad he could beat Larry Holmes LOL(I was just a kid). He told me Green was still a baby compared to Holmes to give him a few years, he was an excellent amatuer with Size,power,speed and skills. I waited and waited and this guy ended up being some Wacko Mental Case who was obsessed with stalking Tyson and Don King and well i think yu guys no the rest.
I must admit though this guys insane behavior and outburst was pretty comical.

[anarci]

Willie Dewitt
Sean Osullivan
Jerry Page
Robert Shannon
Kelcie Banks
Pepe Reilly
Marshall Martinez

[Titan1]

I remember Mitch Greens pro debut(on wide world of sports) and he looked awesome he blew out some guy in 1 round. I told my dad he could beat Larry Holmes LOL(I was just a kid). He told me Green was still a baby compared to Holmes to give him a few years, he was an excellent amatuer with Size,power,speed and skills. I waited and waited and this guy ended up being some Wacko Mental Case who was obsessed with stalking Tyson and Don King and well i think yu guys no the rest.
I must admit though this guys insane behavior and outburst was pretty comical.

It was said he was hitting the drugs way before he turned pro.Shame, if he had his mind in the right spot, he would have been a solid top ten to the least.

[king s]

???

[thejokerswild]

well he did face and beat Lennox Lewis...
Beat Tyson aswell. Gold medalist too

Sad to see he never made it to be honest but i guess in a good heavyweight era there can only be a few champs. He'd absolutely carve up these days.

[thejokerswild]

Jorge Luis Gonzalez defeated Lewis, Bowe, Stevenson and Biggs in his amateur career.

Did not make too much of himself in his pro career. Witherspoon and bowe made him his bitch.

Fucking huge man though. Cool haircut

[Flea Man]

Who the fuck keeps bumping Cotto 20s shit threads???

[Titan1]

I remember Mitch Greens pro debut(on wide world of sports) and he looked awesome he blew out some guy in 1 round. I told my dad he could beat Larry Holmes LOL(I was just a kid). He told me Green was still a baby compared to Holmes to give him a few years, he was an excellent amatuer with Size,power,speed and skills. I waited and waited and this guy ended up being some Wacko Mental Case who was obsessed with stalking Tyson and Don King and well i think yu guys no the rest.
I must admit though this guys insane behavior and outburst was pretty comical.

He did end up becoming Larry's sparring partner for a few years, and Larry even commented on his ability to take a punch.

[KTFO]

Many latin boxers skip amature-status cause they know it's pure crap and ruins their natural style.
Close thread

[anarci]

Many latin boxers skip amature-status cause they know it's pure crap and ruins their natural style.
Close thread Most Latinos in the US have extensive amatuer careers, where as in Mexico many turn pro early cause of Poverty,and there is not too much funding in their amatuer program. Although there are some good amatuers but not as much as their would be if it was funded like other countries. Thats why they arent a powerhouse in the amatuers yet in the pros they are second to only the US in world Champs.

You do have a point though about styles and the Pro style suits them better.